posted on January 26, 2001 11:10:40 AM new
I'm not one to complain about being charged more than actual postage, not at all, as long as I'm charged what is stated in the auction and it's shipped as stated in the auction.
FYI, I'm primarily a seller, so I know something about shipping methods, rates, and requirements.
However, I won an auction over the weekend and received the item today. No complaints about the speed of service here.
However, the EOA notice had the correct shipping charge and stated the item would be shipped Priority Mail. And the item should either have been shipped that way, or at least Parcel Post. Those are the only 2 methods the item qualifies for.
IN OTHER WORDS, IT IS NOT A BOOK SO IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SENT BOOK RATE! It is not anything that qualifies to be sent as book rate at all.
The outside of the package has "Book" marked on it and it most definitely is not. And this seller advertises himself as "a reputable book dealer". So he should know that non-media items don't ship Book Rate.
BTW, I sell books on eBay, so I know what I'm talking about. And I am honest. When I've shipped items that aren't books, they go by Priority Mail, Parcel Post, or if light enough, First Class.
I have sent an email to the seller asking for a refund of the additional $1.25 I was charged. I believe I'm entitled to it since he broke postal regulations in order to save money and pocket the difference.
I wouldn't even be upset had I been charged more and the package had been sent properly. According to the rate calculator, it would have been $3.95 for Priority Mail and $3.44 for Parcel Post. The amount I was charged is less than that, but it's the seller's responsibility to know how much it will cost and eat the difference if s/he makes a mistake. Not ship it using the cheapest method regardless of if it goes against regulations or not!
Someone is bound to think I'm all wrong here for daring to complain. But I don't care. This makes me mad!
And I have paid more than actual postage before and I don't get upset about it as long as the item ships properly. Charging significantly more than Book Rate for non-media items, sending them Book Rate and pocketing the "change" is plain wrong. I certainly don't operate my business that way!
posted on January 26, 2001 11:18:09 AM new
I have to confess that I have made that mistake in the past.
I am normally shipping only books and sometimes ship some other things. When I got home I checked the receipt and realized that everything went by book rate. The post office just assumed that everything was books and shipped them all the way I normally ask for. I was in a fluster that day cause I was going to be late for something else and forgot to pull them out to be shipped Parcel Post.
posted on January 26, 2001 11:21:50 AM new
No offense taken, bibliophile none at all.
I'm cooling down already.
Just makes me made that a (should I say it?) "fellow" bookseller would do this.
Was it an honest mistake? I doubt it.
It's simple enough to write or stamp the appropriate shipping method right on the package after it's prepared. That's what I do. After all, if you're taking 10-20 packages to the PO, it's easy for forget what's inside each one.
posted on January 26, 2001 11:24:42 AM new
I had Media Mail hand written on everything except the packages I was sending Parcel Post---but everything still went Book Rate
posted on January 26, 2001 11:27:17 AM new
Yes, Zazzie, I can understand how such a mistake can be made. (See my other post.)
I just figure that if that's what happened here, the seller would have contacted me and/or already given or offered a refund. I paid with PayPal, so he could have refunded me already if he'd realized his "mistake".
posted on January 26, 2001 11:42:07 AM new
BJGrolle
I guess not everyone is as organized and mistake proof as yourself. Calm down a bit before you have a stroke. I amazes me what gets people so bent out of shape, and over what could be an honest mistake. I guess your ready now to through out a big fat negative so everyone can have the same opinion as yourself, and know this guy is big crook, stole your whole 1.25. Before you go making judgments, and questioning someone's honesty why dot you give him a chance to explain, sometimes people do make mistakes. I am sure you wouldn't understand that, but it DOES happens!
posted on January 26, 2001 12:00:06 PM newjfpnatl,
Yes I realize that mistakes happen. And I can assure you that if I had make that same mistake I would have refunded the difference immediately.
And it's not really the money. He could have charged me a handling fee of $1.25 on top of Priority Mail or Parcel Post and I would have been happy had the item arrived that way. But I was charged a set amount and told it would be shipped Priority Mail and it came Book Rate.
And as for giving him a chance to explain, he has that chance. I emailed him regarding the situation. I'm waiting for his reply before I leave feedback.
radh,
Thank you for your question. The item I received is 6 rolls of shipping tape! Now tell me that a bookseller who supposedly has been selling on the Internet for 3 years doesn't know that shipping tape doesn't qualify for Book Rate/Media Mail!
My local post office knows me pretty well because I'm in there shipping books several times a week. I could easily write Book Rate on everything and they'd never question it because they know I deal in books. But I don't operate that way. On the rare occasions I'm shipping something that doesn't qualify, it goes the way it's supposed to go, not Book Rate.
Had this seller contacted me to acknowledge the "mistake" I would have not been upset at all. Perhaps I am jumping to an incorrect conclusion, but charging a fixed rate for shipping tape (which does not qualify as Media Mail), stating it will be sent Priority Mail, then sending it Book Rate just stinks of something else.
Oh, BTW, he did use a Priority Mail box and covered it over with a white Tyvex envelope. So did he "technically" send it Priority Mail or not? Is it a "cover-up"? You can be the judge of that.
posted on January 26, 2001 12:20:17 PM new
That's a little different story now!! His intentions were pretty clear its seems. You didn't explain the whole story. But you have to admit, that story has been told over and over here where people were told up front they would pay X. XX dollars and were upset that the postage was 1.00 less or .75 cents less, that's what I was referring to. I WOULD TURN THE BOX IN TO THE PO AND LET HIM EXPLAIN IT TO THEM TOO! I could definitely see a mistake happening, but this is DEFINITELY not the case here. I apologize!
posted on January 26, 2001 12:24:37 PM new
MEDIA MAIL: Generally used for books (at least eight pages), film (16 mm or narrower), printed music, printed test materials, sound recordings, play scripts, printed educational charts, loose-leaf pages and binders consisting of medical information, and computer-readable media. Advertising restrictions apply.
AND......furthermore, how I have seen SOME postal clerks mess up my CLEAN looking parcels with their own rendition of "book rate" - when THAT term has been INCORRECT FOR YEARS, I would not be surprised if the seller was COMPLETELY and totally unaware of how this package was shipped.
HOWEVER, most other posters chide me for my innocence; HOWEVER, I do not belief that many sellers at all are cr00ks on eBay.
AND........ I doubt that many human beings wanna commit a FEDERAL OFFENSE to save a buck on postage stamps by mis-identifying a parcel.
IF the seller actually did it, I believe it was a MISTAKE, an EASILY made mistake for those 99.9% of us who are mere m-0-r-t-a-l-z.
posted on January 26, 2001 12:38:31 PM newjfpnatl,
No apology necessary. I should apologize about not being clearer and state all the facts in a non-emotional way before blowing my stack!
I try and charge actual postage myself, and have eaten the difference when necessary. Even so, I'm not against others who want to make a little on the shipping rather than building it in the bid price. But it's the sneakiness I despise.....
You strike me as someone always wanting to see the good in people and that is an admirable quality. I'm not so blessed with such a temperament.
However, while you're entitled to your opinion, did you read my post where I make it clear (should have with the first one, I know now) that the shipping tape was in a Priority Mail box and covered over with a white Tyvex envelope?
How can that be a mistake? What reason is there to put something in a Priority box, cover it over so no one can see it, write "Book" on the outside, and send it for less than Priority Mail?
posted on January 26, 2001 12:47:40 PM new
RADH, You say videos and DVDs can go media mail, but where is that written? My post office says they do not qualify. Is it stated somewhere on their site, all I can find is the same description from engelskdansk.
posted on January 26, 2001 12:59:35 PM new
To many mistakes to just ignore, especially for a seasoned seller. I would hear is plea of ignorance or mistake and go from there. It would depend on his explantion as to whether I would leave a neutral stating the facts or nothing at all, he dont deserve a postive for sure. it just sounds like to many mistakes. He definitely knew the box thing was a no no, or should have!! Sounds to me he knew exactly what he was doing.
I do charge a small handling fee , but in a totally differnt cat. antiques and collectibles and have found it necessary to do so, as the cost of packing the dang stuff has gotten so expesive. I state it up front in every listing. I have never had a complaint as yet. I know people do understand the fees are necessary. I think it would be totally different if you add on charges and let the customer get the package and find out they were overcharged. If people see the H/F and dont wanta bid thats their choice.
posted on January 26, 2001 01:12:56 PM newDONINPA,
I think your post office is wrong, but with the wording I've just pulled up on the USPS site, it's no wonder the confusion.
"Only these items may be mailed at the Media Mailrates:"
Among many other paragraphs:
"Sound recordings...Video recordings are classified as sound recordings." I think that covers videos and DVD's.
I got the info by clicking on Service Guides and typing Media Mail in the search box. Select the first item on the list, DMME713. Item 2, paragraph 3 is where I take the quote from.
With all the regulations you see just on that one form, it's a wonder the postal clerks can keep up with it.
posted on January 26, 2001 01:41:31 PM new
I have also received some items book rate since the high fee hike. Seems like sellers are willing to send the items book rate to save their business. I even hinted about it to my postmaster, and he says they dont check packages at all. I would never report anyone, but I can understand why they do it.
"e. Sound recordings and guides or scripts prepared solely for use with such recordings. Video recordings and player piano rolls are classified as sound
recordings."
1. Sending something as Book Rate that doesn't qualify
2. Telling the buyer (me) that it will be sent Priority Mail, then sending it Book Rate while using Priority Mail supplies to do it in and pocketing the difference
Charging a handling fee upfront and sending it Priority Mail plus handling would have been more honest than what this seller did.
He has clearly admitted what he did and why he did it as I will show in my next post. I was right all along!
posted on January 26, 2001 01:58:54 PM new
This is the brilliant response I just got from the seller:
"Hi Brenda, your comments are illogical.
1) Priority Rate for that weight is $3.95
2) The cheap (book rate) shipping savings are passed on to you
3) You still complain?????
Some folks are never satisfied!!!!!!
I am simply trying to offer a needed product at a competitive rate, I am certainly not making any $$ on these as they cost me .60 a roll. After time & effort are deducted, I might break even!!
Good Luck to you........"
So I'd say this seller knowingly committed mail fraud.
Here is the feedback I left (neutral):
Shipping tape sent Book Rate in Priority box covered by Tyvex marked "Book"
edited because the HTML didn't work in 1 spot
[ edited by BJGrolle on Jan 26, 2001 02:01 PM ]
posted on January 26, 2001 02:07:11 PM new
Although use of Priority Mail supplies for shipping at other than Priority Mail rates is not allowed, it isn't "mail fraud" when one does so. From the USPS website:
What is Mail Fraud?
It's a scheme to get money or something of value from you by offering a product, service, or investment opportunity that does not live up to its claims.
posted on January 26, 2001 02:20:18 PM new
That is very true mrpotatoheadd. No fraud was commited here.
As a seller I understand why he sent the item book rate, infact I might do it myself but I wouldent use priority materials because they are junk anyway. Also bookrate is faster than priority sometimes.
posted on January 26, 2001 02:36:29 PM new
Well, whether some of you want to call it fraud or dishonest or whatever, my local post office and the Postmaster offered to send me a mail fraud report to fill out because they consider it mail fraud.
The USPS does consider it fraud if Priority Materials are used and Priority postage isn't paid and nowhere under Media Mail in the postal regulations does it say shipping tape. They also told me that's fraud.
So those of you who are doubtful, pick up the phone and call your local post office and ask like I did.
And regarding this quote:
[b]What is Mail Fraud?
It's a scheme to get money or something of value from you by offering a product, service, or investment opportunity that does not live up to its claims.[/b]
Isn't promising to ship something Priority Mail and then not doing it offering a product, service...that does not live up to its claims.? On the auction there was a link for shipping. The only rates quoted were Priority Mail and Book Rate. And since shipping tape does not qualify as Book Rate, that means I bid with the knowledge that the item was going to be shipped Priority. This was confirmed in his EOA notice as well.
I am more of a seller than a buyer on eBay. It's not about a measly $1.25 either. It's about honesty and integrity. It's about trying to put one over on the customer.
Will I fill out that mail fraud report? I honestly don't know. His callous attitude and whining about how he's not making any money don't move me a bit to be lenient. But tomorrow is another day and I'll probably decide it's not worth my time.
posted on January 26, 2001 07:49:40 PM new
It burns me up too when sellers ship book rate when they aren't books. Over the past year, I've gotten two packages mailed that way: sports equipment and empty boxes. Neither of these sellers sold a lot of books, so I doubt it was a mistake. And the sports equipment was in a inside out Priority Mail box.
I'm a book seller and for a long time this one postal clerk was quizzing me on everything I brought in (are you sure its a book? Nothing else in the package? No note?)
On the other hand, I've had the same thing happen as Zazzie - one time I had a return to send back to a catalog company and mailed it at the same time as a bunch of books, and realized later it was mailed as book rate. Ooops.
posted on January 26, 2001 08:58:18 PM new
Ok... I have to agree here... If the seller stated Priority Mail and mailed it at Book Rate...(no matter what it is) I would be angry also. This happened to me once... The gal charged me $3.20 for shipping (no S & H or handling was included in the ad) so I assumed that since the shipping was $3.20 that it was going to be mailed using Priority Mail (it was a book/leaflet)... When I received the item it was in a manila envelope and the postage was 77 cents (mailed first class) I was hot! I e-mailed the seller and asked for a refund on the postage. She tried to claim that she clearly stated that she charged handling fees and that it was stated in her ad due to her just saying shipping was $3.20. I told her that I felt if she has a handling fee then she should state that she has a handling fee in her ad and state that the item would be mailed 1st class (First Class S & H for this item is $3.20, blah... blah...)
I did get my refund from her of $2.43...
Now as far as using "NEW" Priority Supplies to mail something that is not being mailed Priority is a BIG NO NO. Any person that gets caught doing this will loose their Priority Privileges at least. I recently order Priority Supplies Online shortly after I received them. I was mailed a letter and card that I had to sign and return stating that I understood that if I used these Priority Supplies for any other use than what they are meant for I could loose my privileges or be prosecuted for a federal offense. If I did not return the card they would not ship more supplies to me.
Now... I also buy on eBay so I get alot of Priority Boxes mailed to me with my purchased goods inside. I will reuse these "USED" boxes... I cut the "USED" sweater boxes down into card stock to slip in manila envelopes to prevent magazines or pattern/leaflets (craft) from getting bent up... I also "once in a great while" may use a "USED" 12 x 12 box to ship an item in. Sometimes (not often) I flip the boxes inside out (leaving the canceled postage on them, but remove the addresses) Or I will cover the boxes with kraft paper.
This may be totally wrong to do (I really don't know), but I feel if I was to be so called "caught" doing this and was told it was illegal to do. I would stop. I think recycling your used Priority boxes would be a good thing... because here where I live we have no recycling system or center. They just get thrown in the trash and off to the dump they go.
I guess it is possible that I could lose my Priority Supply privileges if someone noticed it and reported it. But I don't think they would throw me in jail or fine me for recycling all this cardboard.
posted on January 27, 2001 01:03:45 AM new
DONINPA -
Earlier post by engelskdansk is pretty much a direct quote. you can go to [http://www.usps.com]
and check out all their rates.
`·. >(((º>`·.¸.¸>
ahwahneeliz
>(((º>¸¸.·.>((º>··.¸><((((ºcJ
posted on January 27, 2001 02:04:03 AM new
You were hurt to the degree that the method used to ship was slower. You were hurt to the one in 300 millionth part because it is mail fraud. If you want to turn him in to the post office as a matter of principle you are correct.
I certainaly would not allow this to raise my blood pressure and upset me. If you allow every thing to get to you this easy you are headed for an early grave from self-stress because this is a minor matter in the world of wrongs we can all chip away at righting.
[ edited by gravid on Jan 27, 2001 02:05 AM ]
