posted on January 27, 2001 02:57:56 PM
First of all, there is a big difference between a discussion and an argument.
Steven came here representing a company that he would like us to sign up with. People here are asking a few questions and they would like a few answers.
On a discussion board people may have different views, good or bad. This leads me to believe that he should have arrived here, pumped up his new business, that we should have all signed on, end of story. And anyone who questions this should just go away.
I disagree. The fact that Steven has admitted (and even defended) spamming is relevant to ReliableMerchants.com's credibility. The fact that he refuses to disclose to users where he got their email address is relevant. The fact that he admits feedback padding in violation of eBay rules is relevant to ReliableMerchant's credibility. The fact that he has apparently been operating on eBay for a couple of years in violation of eBay rules is relevant to ReliabileMerchant's credibility. He makes his age an issue- in his press release, and because he asks other to excuse his violations because he was young and in school and subject to peer pressure. And on and on....
These are all relevant issues for someone who is asking others to hand over their personal information, and whose "ambition is to label reliable merchants as such, thereby instilling trust in their customers and increasing their sales."
"This poor seventeen year old, who came here out of pure curiosity is getting destroyed..."
No. He came here to answer questions about his for-profit business, hoping to generate additional customer base and ultimately develop a business model that would bring profitability. That's great. But when the questions become uncomfortable, and we get brand new users appearing quoting Tolstoy and defending "this poor seventen year old," it doesn't inspire confidence.
posted on January 27, 2001 03:16:48 PM
"That has nothing to do with Reliable Merchants"
I agree with you that we should all be a little nicer than we are, but I can't disagree with you more about the above statement.
Without rehashing all the previous "history" of the founder of this new enterprise, let's just say it has been less than noble and honest.
Hypothetically:
Now this individually (with a less than noble and honest background) has decided to setup a website to make some real money. The fact that he has shown no regard for the laws, policies, or morals of his previous actions up to and including the spamming of 1,000 of people lends a bit of doubt as to whether "Reliable Merchants" even exists. There is nothing on the website or in any publication that confirms that such a company exists. This could very well be another scam being run from someone's basement that according to the information on the website may have collected $40 each from some 1,500 people.
In the event that this is true (and I honestly hope it isn't) the people that got screwed have no recourse because he is a minor.
No matter how harsh or difficult this thread has been, it is much better to get to the truth here than to find out in the news when it is too late and 1,000's of seller have been defrauded.
There is no way of knowing if he is really 17 or who he says he is. For that matter, does anyone know who I really am. Is my name really Jim? Am I really a Mr, and not a Mrs?
posted on January 27, 2001 03:22:53 PM
To those who seem to disagree,
If you are coming here with the intent of blasting Steven, dont come. If you are coming with the intent of learning about RM, than by all means join.
I think Stevens history is irrelevant to RM. He is seventeen. Two years ago, 15. Do you all remember that first kiss, or smoking marijuana? It was definitely not right, but we all did something of the sort. He was 15, and even at 15, he sold perfectly well. And regardless of his mothers intervention, I'm sure he didnt have a cresid card at the age of 15 to sign up. Im sure he had an adult to help him.
As far as SPAMing, I'm not an internet expert, nor do I know the laws. If SPAMing is illegal, or offends you, you have the right to question the credibility of RM. I know nothing about it, so I wont get involved.
Thank You,
Menachem
posted on January 27, 2001 03:26:19 PM
I apologize for this message, but I dont want to 'steel' the show. If you would like to reply, please reply to my email address.
[email protected]
Thank you
Menachem
posted on January 27, 2001 03:38:46 PM
For the record: Two years ago ebay did not require a credit card to sell on Ebay. You could run up $10 in fees before they booted you for not paying the bill. You also had the option to send a money order to pay your fees. A minor could easily sell on Ebay at that time without a parent's consent.
Menachem: Am I correct in assuming that you joined Auction Watch at Steven's request ? (member since yesterday, 3 posts, all in this thread)
You need to acquaint yourself with the following current and pending laws regarding spam. http://www.spamlaws.com/
Additionally, it is explicitedly against eBay and AuctionWatch's rules to harvest emails for spamming. I totally agree with MrJim's assessment: a previous history demonstrating absolutely no regard for rules, policies or morals IS relevant to this discussion. And, by the way, this is a discussion board, which correctly implies that every voice can be heard, those in agreement as well as those dissenting. So, please don't take it upon yourself to dismiss those with legitimate concerns from posting.
[ edited by athena1365 on Jan 27, 2001 03:43 PM ]
posted on January 27, 2001 03:45:36 PM
I was born at night BUT...NOT LAST NIGHT!!
How many of you buyers Really Acually take the time to look at a persons feedback before hitting that "SUBMIT" button?
If they have over 100+ I NEVER LOOK! Shame on me for that(slapping my own hand).
But its true if a person looks to have comfortable feedback its mundane to pour through it trying to find the 2 or maybe 3 negs they have gotten.
I know this is wrong but I think we are all guilty of not looking at feedback before we bid.
This really happened to me recently. I bid on an item from a seller with over 300+ feedback. I never bothered to look.
No communication except where to send the money. After about 3 weeks and the check had long since cleared, I e-mailed asking the statis of my purchase.....NO RESPONSE. NOW....I go look at feedback. Absolutely littered with negs & neutrals...SLOW SHIPPING.....BAD PACKING....NOT AS ADVERTISED/DESCRIBED...on and on.
This buyer most definantly would not have qualifyed for this "reliable seal". I finally did get my purchase and it WAS NOT "MINT" like the ad said!
I think this "seal" is suppose to serve as reasurance for people like me that are too dern lazy or busy to pour through someones feedback to see if they are a good risk or not.
For me seeing the seal would work because there is only 1 out 50 chances that I won't get what was advertised. As it is now with not looking at all....what are my percentages?
With the percentages that high and with some tweeking I think this could be a good idea for a seller.
But to add...I would NEVER pay for the service.
Good Luck Steven!!
Some new comments have been adding while I was writing this....
I just have ONE MORE THING TO SAY...
CLINTON said he didn't INHALE, CLINTON was a DRAFT DODGER....CLINTON VIOLATED the WHITE HOUSE....YET...he was elected to one of the highest positions in this Counrty.
Good Lord! Please get off the age thing and the spam thing, hashing it and re-hashing it is only making YOU look SILLY!
posted on January 27, 2001 03:46:59 PM
I think that this is starting to get out of hand. Magazineguy -- once more, this is not a competition for whose service is better. The goal is to make eBay a better place.
posted on January 27, 2001 03:50:15 PM
No, I did not sign up on Stevens request. I signed up after I asked an eBaysian for details on this new company, and he reffered me here. However, I find it almost hummurous, if not disgusting, that I am used as another claim against your anget towards RM.
And as I said, I dont know computers much, and I didnt know that a credit card was not needed two years ago.
Menachem
[ edited by Menachem on Jan 27, 2001 03:51 PM ]
posted on January 27, 2001 04:30:45 PM
Packer...a lot of people read the feed back. Read my original post.
Sure the thrill of the moment might catch you once, but when the burn goes down, you aren't likely to do it again.
Moderator. Why are you letting this commercial spamming thread continue? This is clearly as stated earlier and attempt to capture interest in their site.
To have Menachum show up and make blanket assumptions is ridiculous... then to call all those who disagree animals to boot.
Read Tolstoy, read the story and the context. I am not anti-entrepreneuer. I work in media and I can smell double speak a mile away. I also see that this seal is nothing more than a "logo-for-sale"
Raglady is right, and Amy's mention of texture is so right on.
Reread my posts. slowly. Layers of misinformation between seller and bidder is never really good.
I buy from one seller that has an about me page that explains his early negs, and also makes a comment about how he can do better, communicate better. None of which can be factored well into the Killer Alogarithm.
Sorry you feel the need to insult those with whom you disagree. It bares the weakness of your argument to all.
As to those who feel offended by those who do "dare" disagree. Please. I have seen all your nicks at the Wailing Wall when things don't go right. Stop and think what you are buying (it won't be free forever).
Anyhow I am done with this thread. Why can't AW see it for what it is: SPAM.
posted on January 27, 2001 04:58:07 PM
Moderator -- I would also appreciate if you stopped this thread of posts. It has indeed strayed from the normal discussion it was intended for.
posted on January 27, 2001 05:00:20 PM
Maybe I was a little "strong" in my last post but it angers me to see someone try to take advantage of hard working Ebay sellers for their own personal gains especially in such a blatant scheme. Of course Ms.Collier thought it was a great idea, she made money from her Ebay for Dummies with information that is free from the Ebay site or easily obtained by anyone with working knowledge of a computer and the internet.
How did we manage folks for the last four to five years without the Reliable Merchant Seal? I guess ebay doesn't know what they are doing with the feedback system, better get rid of that dinosaur! There is a sucker born every day and I am sure RM will catch a few with this one
