The plain facts of this are that this lawsuit is being brought by some kind of nutcase diehard Hillary supporter. Everything I found about this online contains no direct quotes by anybody, just "according to Berg" Obama was born in Kenya, "according to Berg" Obama's paternal grandmother is on tape talking about being present at Barack's birth in Kenya. Everything in the original post is according to Berg.
It's all a big load of unsubstantiated hogwash, held onto and promoted by people who are either bigots, or those who know McCain can't possibly match Obama on the real issues, last ditch desperate McCain supporters or all three.
[ edited by profe51 on Oct 24, 2008 01:47 PM ]
posted on October 24, 2008 01:47:37 PM
I thought the news reported that Obama's grandmother who is dying in Hawaii is the only grandmother he has left. Is the one in Kenya speaking from the grave?
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posted on October 24, 2008 01:50:05 PM
As you know the former Dem Att General of PA has a lawsuit over the Obama eligibility. Lots of interesting stuff is coming up. For example, they are trying to figure out how he was born in HI after his mother was not allowed to board a plane to the US because of advanced pregnancy.
World Net Daily published the charges and found one allegation invalid: the birth certificate in HI being a "copy". But lots of stuff is iffy. What's even better is it could all be snuffed out by documentation from Obama, which for some reason is not forthcoming.
Another interesting tidbit is apparently Obama has A LOT of guys "in the neighborhood". "Previous articles" linked in this particular article detail histories, dates, places, speeches about other people Obama "barely knows". LOL.
I'll save you time.
World Net Daily is not nice.
World Net Daily once said Reagan had nice hair.
Then you can give the "Just because Freddie shot pool with Eichmann on Fri nights doesn't mean he doesn't like jews", Obama equivalent speech.
posted on October 24, 2008 02:17:12 PM
Factcheck.org saw and touched the actual birth certificate. The have pictures of it on their site. Not hard to find at all if you are so concerned about it. Get over it and move on Bear and Squirrel.
posted on October 24, 2008 02:47:34 PM
All these theories about the birth in Hawaii raise a lot of doubt and questions. Even to the point that some theories have been in the Internet. The Certification of Birth was submitted by Obama but the Birth Certificate is guarded. My question is: Why doesn't Obama just release the darn thing and end all this?
posted on October 24, 2008 03:11:48 PM
Exactly, Profe. Everything can be traced back to this Berg character. Just the fact that there are pages and pages on GOOGLE from out-there websites all saying the same thing, virtually verbatim, should be a clue.
Neglus--Obama's Kenyan grandmother is actually his step-grandmother. No blood relation.
Pixia--Factcheck has too many facts for these people. I saw the Certification too on fact check and a few other sites.
Squirrel & Maybedee--Obama has produced the Certification of Live Birth from Hawaii. The fact that he has not produced his original birth certificate is not unusual. I wanted to get my passport this past spring and could not find my original (we've moved several times in the last 10 years.) Had to get another one from the Dept of Health. They send a Certificate of Birth with a seal just as Hawaii did for Obama. This is not an actual birth certificate, it just certifies that their records show the birth information on the certificate. How many people have their original birth certificate?
The fact that it is all over the internet indicates that it is not credible information, especially when most of the information is from biased (being kind) websites and blogs.
posted on October 24, 2008 03:45:01 PM
I don't have my original one either. I have a seal stamped copy. No, it's not at all unusual. In fact, it's quite common.
Cheryl
Whitman said she and McCain share a philosophy of scaling back the role of government. a point of view partly shaped by her EBay experience. "The EBay model is very Republican in its essence -- it's about making a small number of rules and getting out of the way while not overtaxing the community," she said.
posted on October 24, 2008 04:33:23 PM
I guess the statement about Ebay being Republican was correct, "fewer rules and get out of the way". I guess I have to agree with that. Now Ebay is like the Democrats with many controls as: 1)no negative feedback for buyers, 2) no more checks or money orders, and 3) controls on shipping cost. <p> I've been watching and listening to both parties campaigning on TV, and also watching C-Span. I guess I don't like the controls Ebay is imposing on sellers and equate that to the controls that are coming down from the Democratic Congress.. more specifically the Fairness Doctrine, the coming tax increases, Obama's Global Povery Act (Senate Bill 2433), a bill coming up making it much easier to form a union by disallowing secret ballots... I just don't like being controlled so I'm voting for McCain.
posted on October 24, 2008 05:07:00 PM
Maybedee, Thank you very much for outlining why you are voting for McCain. I know most posters on this board are Obama people, including me, but I appreciate hearing other viewpoints without name calling and silly rumors.
I certainly don't like to be controlled as well, but with the economic crisis, a large part of which is due to lack of control or regulation, we will all have to sacrifice to pull out of it. It is unrealistic to believe otherwise. If you make less than $250,000 a year, Obama's plan will not raise your taxes.
posted on October 24, 2008 05:37:46 PM
Hi Coach, it is refreshing to discuss opposing views without resorting to useless rhetoric. I'm afraid that we are in for a difficult time no matter who is elected. The consideration is, who is the man most prepared to be there. I don't believe that we see all there is to Obama's plan. He talks about raising tax on those making over 250k when they are now paying 60% of the taxes now. His fellow Dem. Barney Franks is also talking about raising those hi income taxes even more. The Dems are even talking about pulling in those off shore accounts that some people use to hide their money. But no talks about lessening spending in DC, or trimming down government. Their system is just too complex and I believe in the KISS principle. Now, I know McCain will have a hard time too but it makes sense to me that cutting taxes for corporations = less expenses = more productivity, as jobs. Also good for the people for their own self esteem as opposed to entitlements that berate a persons self worth. Now I do believe in giving a helping had to those in need, but it sometimes becomes a way of life. Wow, I can't believe I wrote all this. C-Span has sure exposed me to a lot of insights.
posted on October 24, 2008 06:33:19 PM
Hi May, I have many of the same concerns. I'd venture to say we all do. We have to go with the candidate who inspires the most trust in us. For me, it is Obama. I find the calmness and steadiness of Barack Obama are attributes I want to see in a president. I am confident that his economic plan is a solid one, but if it is not, I feel he is flexible enough to go another route. Sorry to say, I can't see McCain doing that. He seems much more rigid. I also feel that McCain's pick of Sarah Palin was poor judgment. Needless to say, the dangerous lies and innuendo, which have riled up so many at the McCain/Palin rallies--to the point of shouting kill and Obama is a terrorist, scares the bejesus out of me. They sould be roundly condemned by McCain/Palin, but are not.
Sorry to be so long-winded. Could have just said I have been a life-long liberal Democrat
and saved a lot of typing.
posted on October 24, 2008 08:01:11 PM
Hi Coach… It was on the news that the person who allegedly shouted those frightening statements did not exist. There was a report on the news that the FBI people present never heard any like that. Now you must agree that the publicized associations are documented and did in fact occur over a number of years so those are not lies or innuendos. That aside, Sarah Palin is certainly a change from the usual professional politicians we have had for years in Washington. She has accomplished more in 2 years as a governor than Obama has as a senator. He did not leave his projects in Chicago better than they were. He is indecisive as indicated by the many times he voted present in the Illinois Senate. I don’t want this conversation to flare as I do welcome the exchange of thoughts on this important issue. During my time spent in college I came away with three special lessons and those were: be flexible, be non-judgmental, and don’t assume. The first and second are sometimes a little tough but I do adhere to not assuming and I don’t accept the snippets of news the media decides to show me. I must tell you that I was a Chicago Democrat.
posted on October 24, 2008 08:19:34 PMThe Dems are even talking about pulling in those off shore accounts that some people use to hide their money.
And that's.......bad?
Maybedee. I am a lifelong independent. I have personally worked with McCain on issues here in our shared home state and in the past I found myself agreeing with him more often than not. When he first came here, I considered him to be just another carpetbagger. As a native, I will admit to prejudice against those who move here and think they know what's good for my state. Rick Renzi is a good example of the kind of scumballs we have representing us, but I digress..McCain proved himself more than once, and I grew to admire him. His service in Viet Nam, while admirable, was never important to me.
During the 2000 election, I watched this man bend over and spread 'em for the Bush machine. He suffered their bigoted and hateful rumors, lost the nomination due in large part to them, and then turned around and bent over again to support Bush. This was the beginning of my suspicions about him.
Since then, he has toed the Bush line the vast majority of the time. His selection of Sarah Palin as his running mate was nearly the last straw, and now that he is participating in and allowing the same exact kind of hateful campaign to be conducted on his behalf as was carried out on him tells me only one thing. The man is utterly without scruples. He'll say and do whatever it takes to become president, and allow his minions to cast hateful aspersions on Obama while denying it all with a straight face.
I have concerns about Obama. He is untested, but I believe he will rise to the challenge. I believe he is a man of integrity. I don't give a ratsass where he was born or what his religion is. I will vote for him and give him a chance because there is no way I could cast a vote for someone as compromised, unprincipled and desperate as McCain.
posted on October 24, 2008 08:55:59 PM
To profe51...
I do like to engage in discussion about the nominees but I do find your language to be offensive. That being said let’s get on with this discussion. I don’t care about Obama’s religion either, but I do care if he is not an American born citizen, that being one of the three requirements for POTUS. I tend to believe that he was born in Hawaii and shudder to think of what would happen if he won the election and we learned otherwise. But that is not likely to happen. You say you worked with McCain but your explanation for your dilike of him is subjective. Can you offer specifics so that I may have the opportunity to judge for myself? Do you believe that McCain will cut, or at least maintain taxes? Do you believe he can pare down the immense government and spending in Washington? Do you think he may be better prepared than Obama in keeping our country safe? I ask this question last because if we are not safe, then the economy will mean nothing in the future.
posted on October 24, 2008 09:00:12 PM
Hi May, This is from factcheck.org:
Here are the facts: According to reports by both The New York Times and the Associated Press, Obama voted "present" 129 times as a state senator. The AP reported that Obama said the votes represented a small portion — a little more than 3 percent — of the "roughly 4,000" votes he cast as a member of the state Senate.
The Illinois state Legislature allows members to vote "present" rather than "yes" or "no." The Times reported in December that "present" votes provide a way for lawmakers to voice opposition to an issue. Such votes can also help them avoid the political fall-out of voting "no":
As far as people at McCain/Palin rallies shouting terrorist or kill him and other epithets, I and many others heard this over and over when watching the McCain rallies.
I agree with Profe about McCain. I used to admire him,(though not his politics) but for all the reasons Profe outlined, I don't anymore. Besides selling his soul to win the nomination, he appears angry, desperate and jumping from one tactic to another, while Obama has been rational,calm, shows evidence of a good analytical mind and has given definitive plans for various problems. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
posted on October 24, 2008 09:38:11 PM
coach81938: You are correct, we must agree to disagree. I will support the man who becomes our next president. I do hope this election brings more balance of parties to the Congress.
posted on October 24, 2008 10:17:09 PM
I'm convinced many of you cannot read. If you look, I said that WND stated the Birth certificate was not an issue after fact check. The certificate is only one point of Berg's several concerns and like Maybedee AND I have stated, it would be simple enough to END the entire matter simply by producing the HI hospital records where the birth allegedly occurred.
It is just like all of the people in Mr. Obama's neighborhood that he "barely knows". His involvement with these figures is not a mysterious cloud, it is documented dozens of times over. It seems most of the people in Mr. Obama's neighborhood are racist, marxist, and anti-American. The type of people he has awarded money to and received from is also not an apparition.
And somehow, I doubt the average person in thinking of a self branded marxist murderer is not mollified when people here respond "that was 40 years ago, get over it".
posted on October 25, 2008 06:00:37 AM
Squirrel, If the birth certificate is not an issue, what more do you want? Accept the birth certificate, accept the citizenship.
posted on October 25, 2008 06:01:20 AMCan you offer specifics so that I may have the opportunity to judge for myself? Do you believe that McCain will cut, or at least maintain taxes?
McCain will only cut taxes for corporations. He'll offer the same breaks Bush has offered to such needy, struggling groups as big oil. McCain's approach, if he has one at all, is "trickle down" economics. A failed concept.
Do you believe he can pare down the immense government and spending in Washington?
No I don't. The immense government and grotesque spending is the result of the phony conservatism of the Bush administration, and McCain has shown himself to be in line with them more often than not. I have no logical reason to conclude anything other than he will continue down that path.
Do you think he may be better prepared than Obama in keeping our country safe?
No I don't. I cannot subscribe to the notion that because someone is a former military man that he is necessarily better prepared to keep the country safe. I believe that Obama's ability to gather the best advisors around him and listen to them will more than make up for any deficits in foreign affairs or security experience he may have. I also believe that McCain's temper and his erratic behavior during this campaign indicates an instability that may be dangerous once he's in the White House. I for one don't want a hip-shooter in charge of military.
posted on October 25, 2008 06:08:16 AM
TO: Helenjw. Please forgive me, thought this thread was an exchange of thoughts about the coming election. I didn't realize it is strictly an Obama fan club. I'm done here.
posted on October 25, 2008 06:28:45 AM
Helen -maybedee has posted thoughtfully on the EO board before. She is not a troll and doesn't deserve your comment.
Edited to add: I was happy to see a McCain supporter post here - especially one that states her own opinion and doesn't copy/paste drivel. It takes a lot of courage to come here in the first place because the discussions are so one-sided. Maybedee. I hope you will come back.
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posted on October 25, 2008 06:46:58 AMDo you believe that McCain will cut, or at least maintain taxes?
I can answer this from my point of view...I do not believe Obama will raise taxes in my income tax bracket (under $250,000). This being said, I do believe those who are more fortunate should pay more, it is based on income, is it not? Why should wealthy doctors (for example) get a tax break?
I also believe that both parties are intending to spend alot of money and everyone questions where that money is going to come from (McCain's agenda as well). How are we paying for this war? McCain wants to continue without an end?
***
A poll is not a prediction. It is a snapshot of how people are thinking right now.
posted on October 25, 2008 06:47:45 AM
I didn't call her a troll, Neglus.
BTW...Exactly why was Profe accused by Maybedee of using offensive language? I don't see any such language written by Profe in this thread. In fact I've never seen Profe use offensive language during the seveal years that I have read and posted here.
posted on October 25, 2008 06:56:12 AM
You called her a rat - I guess that means "troll" (in the spirit of Bear and Squirrel) to me. I am just guessing that she was offended by the term "ratsass".
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Well, if she was offended by the expression, "I don't give a ratsass" in reference to the place of Obama's birth, an early departure from this board may be good for her.
posted on October 25, 2008 07:49:05 AM
Maybe it was the "bend over and spread 'em" line. Either way; pretty thin skinned, you ask me. To her credit, she did ask reasonable questions and post unhysterical reasons for her choice, which I answered in kind. Unusual for the righty-tighties here.
posted on October 25, 2008 07:50:46 AM
I think it was the word "scumballs" that bothered her, but she persisted nevertheless.
I don't agree with her, but it was pleasant to see discussion rather than trolling and responding. I, for one, wish that she were still around.
FWIW, Obama was my third choice among the Dems, and one of the things that did bother me was his "present" votes. On balance, I approve of him by light-years over McCain/Palin and will vote for him. Four years ago, I might have felt differently, but McCain obviously decided four years ago that if you can't beat them, join them, and his campaign has been like Bush's four years ago, but even worse. I respected him once, but no longer.
