posted on February 7, 2001 08:58:27 AM
Just dug a little deeper and see that the $10.00 a month / $120.00 year discount is only good for the first year. You will then be charged $19.95 a month!!!
posted on February 7, 2001 08:58:32 AM
They have burned thru their venture capital and advertizing dollars for ads online are drying up....so they have to get cash from some source...US. So, you pay $120 or $240 up front for a year's worth of service and what happens if our $$$ isn't enough to keep 'em going?....especially since most of us little guys are leaving....Are there enough big sellers out there to support Rover/GoTo/whatever? With so many dot coms in trouble these days, sure makes a person wonder who'll last.
These are some rambling thoughts...makes you wonder what is really going on over at GoTo.
posted on February 7, 2001 09:00:53 AM
brooklynguy -
You don't know the situation - are you listing through GOTO (now Channel Fusion)? If not, you don't know the history.
I started out when Auction Rover was just 1 month old. At that time, their revenue was from advertising, and their were TONS of glitches in their program. I patiently informed them of each one, working through it with them, and recommending them to other people.
When they were suddenly purchased by GOTO, we were afraid that fees where soon to come. We again, were assured that the advertising was covering their expenses, and the were getting revenue from GOTO to help build their auction tools, etc. They told us they were given the money to give greater exposure to goto and their services, and that the auction tools would remain free.
Next came the plan of Channel Fusion, which at the time was to be a "portal for businesses to liquidate their excess inventory through auctions". The program was to tie into the companies inventory system, and would make the listings fast and easy. THIS was to be a paid-for service, and would support us little guys using the auction tools FOR FREE; Auction tools that were supposed to act like advertising for GOTO, and an introduction to their upcoming paid-for service for big business - Chanel Fusion.
I COMPLETELY understand a company needing to turn a profit to survive. HOWEVER, it was promissed over and over that we would not be the source of that profit - that it was to come from other services in development, advertising, and monies from GOTO for the extra exposure they received from all the folks using the free auction tools.
GOTO makes their money from companies that list with them through search terms and a per-click fee, as well as for fees related to setting them up and adding search terms. Thousands of companies use this service, and pay BIG BUCKS to do so. So be assured that GOTO has a source of income and profit not related to their auction tools.
THEREFORE, it was reasonable to believe them when they said there would be no fees, and that that would continue to be so. IF I HAD KNOWN there was a chance that would change, I wouldn't have sacrificed the hours and hours, days and weeks to set up everything with them.
And that is why users are feeling the way they do. I hope that this gives you more info and background to understand why we are NOT being unreasonable. I feel like all those hours of work, helping them grow by working with them with bugs and glitches, promoting them to others and defending them when they made major changes without notifying anyone, affecting their data, has been for NOTHING!!!!
posted on February 7, 2001 09:06:33 AM
I've only been on e-bay for a year. I've gone from listing directly on e-bay, to two different bulk lister's and none of them have everything I would want, the post-sale management tools have the same problems. After reading this message board for the last few weeks, I'm convinced there isn't one out there for free or with fees. Maybe it's time I build my own....I don't blame people for charging for services but it just seems so piece-meal. I always see people writing; I use so and so for this, and that for something else. There's got to be something that puts it all together, and is customizable to the way each one of us does business. Or is that just a dream??
posted on February 7, 2001 09:07:36 AM
Unfortunatley, BROOKLYNGUY, you're right! The websites use the small seller to get their site going. The big sellers needed us to help start a place so they could do a "full-time" business. But really can't argue your point of reality. I sell only between late Nov and mid April in collectibles. That's it. The rest of the time, to me, it's a buyer's market. For the last 4 years I've done nothing but sell, sell, sell and get rid of the stuff I've accumulated over the years. I'm glad I have. I've told friends and family all year that this might be the last "big year" of selling for me on ebay. This was never suppose to be a full-time job but that's all these sites now want in clients (full-timers) Makes sense, more $$. I'm selling items on ebay that cost me 7.5% in fees (on average). Additional fees may push it into the 10% of the selling price. RL auctions cost that much and don't nearly bring in the kind of buying prices I get sometimes on eBay. They want bigger clients. It'll happen. Sorta sad tho, that's all!
posted on February 7, 2001 09:19:56 AM
from Motley Fool:
HOW GOTO SCORES:
• Unfortunately, in the course of GOTO's daily business operations, the company is using more cash than it generates. Not good.
WHAT THIS MEANS:
• At this rate, GOTO may be in danger of having to borrow money or issuing more shares of stock (which dilutes current ownership). You'll want to look hard at the company's financial statements to see what's behind this.
posted on February 7, 2001 09:32:48 AM
The smart move for anyone is to use your own resources! Don't count on any of these dot coms to be around forever --even if they charge. Do you really think any of them can survive on $19.95 per month from a bunch of mid-level users?
I don't.
Use the web space that comes with your ISP subscription or your web site. If you don't know HTML, learn it. Build a listing template that you can copy and paste into eBay's listing page. Learn the other shortcuts using your existing resources... or resources you buy, own and control.
There are other ways to do this for cheap or for free. Be prepared. It's the scrappy little businesses that will survive on the web.
My bottom line is better than Amazon's. I'll bet that's true of many of you.
posted on February 7, 2001 10:15:39 AM
This is alot of bull. GO TO did specifically say that it would not charge fees. Not only did it lie about that, it still hasn't gotten the inventory number problem, fixed. The inventory amounts just automatically jump to anything they want it to say, not the amount actually put up by us as being in our inventory. As for me,and about 15 other of us Ebay'ers who sell large quantities of items every month, we sure won't be paying any additional fees. Maybe if enough of us holler, and refuse to pay fees, we were told we never would have to pay, Rover (GoTo) will come back and it actually will be the service it once was. I have had enough of wasting my value time, trying to keep GoTo running.
Donna
posted on February 7, 2001 10:16:36 AM
I can't understand these companies that would rather charge a fee and see if they could survive rather than just remain free till they go bankrupt. Shocking, simply shocking.
If you don't like it, don't pay it, but don't fault them for trying to stay in business.
posted on February 7, 2001 10:18:25 AM
Perhaps anyone intending to pay GoTo fees would want to do a little investigating into their strength as a dotcom. It doesn't look so good for them. You pay these fees upfront and then they go under. You think you would ever get your fees back? I think your chances would be slim to none.
posted on February 7, 2001 10:19:52 AM
Doghouse: The eBay picture services stink. The images are small and greatly compressed.
I often just back out of an auction with IPIX images because half the time I can't see the image very well or any detail.
As far as the drag and drop, I don't know. Remember it is an eBay service.... I would suggest that you contact eBay Support but that is usually a waste of time.
If you have other image options I hope you will consider using it instead of IPIX.
posted on February 7, 2001 10:25:04 AM
Ditto the above. As a buyer, I don't even bother anymore with auction listings once I see they are using IPIX- the image quality SUX.
posted on February 7, 2001 10:25:16 AM
Doghoue, SMW is right about IPIC. It is no good. Two of my repeat customers actually wrote and complained to me about the poor quality of the pic I was using.
uaru, Not faulting anyone for trying to stay in business. Personally I'm not anyway. It is the under handed deceit that gets to most of us. And a company that knows it is in trouble and trys to get a years worth of fees upfront from their customers, well thats just sleeze! Big Time!
posted on February 7, 2001 10:27:29 AMvargas I agree with you 100% about learning HTML and using the resources that come with your ISP. Many ISPs give you 1, 2, 5 meg and more of space with your Internet account. It would benefit anyone doing online auctions to learn how to take advantage of it. All that's needed is an FTP program like CuteFTP or WsFTP.
As for HTML templates, I made some up a long time ago and know several people that use them. http://www.auctionbytes.com/Yellow_Pages/Template/template.html Yes, you have to cut and paste some URLs and No, it won't do bulk listing for you, but they're free (forever) for anyone to use.
The point is that HTML and learning to FTP your files to your own space is simple once you take the leap and learn it.
posted on February 7, 2001 10:38:39 AM
Hi Barb - Thanks for filling me in on the history. I do not use the service in question
and I can honestly see why you are upset and feel used by this company. Unfortunately, there are just too many people who don't see the big picture. All of the fees being charged by the different companies are part of the grand plan to drive the little guy out. I keep hearing everyone saying "I can't afford any more fees, I'm just a small seller" EXACTLY!!
Most of the new start-up dot.com companies are founded by the twenty-somethings who have very little true business sense and are blinded by the chance to make a quick buck. They have absolutely no loyalty to their employees. Their only objective is to pillage the company for as many millions as possible and then leave the dying company without regard to who gets hurt. Forget the employees who no longer have jobs. To h*ll with the people who had faith and purchased now worthless stock in the company. Man I feel better now.
Toybuyer - We're kind of in the same boat. I decided a few months ago to start purging my ample stock with an eye towards no longer selling online by the middle of this year. For me it's not because of the fees. I came to the realization that the market for my area of selling (also collectibles) is just not there anymore. It's possible that I may regroup and come up with some new products down the road but for now I'm done. It's a vicious cycle because now my distributor no longer gets the $1,000 - $1500 a month I used to spend with him. It's a domino effect and I completely agree, very very sad.
posted on February 7, 2001 10:41:32 AM
I'll also being saying Goodbye to GoTo.
Like many here, the fees associated with doing business have just increased to the point that it no longer makes sense to continue to work like this for anothers gain.
I had already dropped their EOA notification process about a month ago when a customer commented that it was awkward and seemed impersonal. I have had much better response with my customers since I returned to notifying them myself. I have also made a few new friends.
So, I plan to step back and evaluate what I can do with and without. I suspect many will be doing the same over the next few months. The winds are changing out there. Time to move in another direction. As sellers, I think that is our most important resource - the ability to change and adapt quickly. Ok, so get out there and re-acquaint yourselves with HTML and send emails to your customers that are directed at them and not a generic "Thank you!". It won't be so hard to do - maybe you won't list as much as you used to - and maybe you will find the sales are better when not as many people are listing as much stuff. So, it becomes harder for others to list - because of various reasons. And just maybe, we will all learn something new.
Just the rambling thoughts of an old man.
noteye
A sad Texan once commented "I Wish it would rain, not so much for myself, I have seen rain before. But, for my 10 year old son."
posted on February 7, 2001 10:45:54 AMThe point is that HTML and learning to FTP your files to your own space is simple once you take the leap and learn it.
That's the only way I've ever done it. I have 20 megs of space on my server and it is VERY dependable (it went down once for a day 2 years ago because of Hurricane George).
If you can't learn HTML or afford an ISP that supplies you with enough web space then pay the fees.
posted on February 7, 2001 10:48:06 AMVIDPRO2 I'm very new to computers. Where do you learn what your are talking about. I'm game, but don't know where to start. My ISP is AOL.
I like your ramblings old man! You say a lot that makes sense. Taking back our power and money from these companies that peck us to death is a positive step in the right direction. Change is just part of life and we all have to roll with the punches and sometimes it is damn hard to do. My history shows I rant and rave and then go find something that works. I've sold on line for 5 years and somehow I survive each change.
Brooklynguy I agree with most of what you've had to contribute here. And I think it is sad too!
posted on February 7, 2001 11:18:49 AMmcjane I learned HTML on my own...that proves how simple it is!
Another way of doing it is to get a program like FrontPage, design your template in that program, then view the HTML and cut and paste it into the description box on eBay or Yahoo! or any of the multitude of auction sites out there.
I've only learned HTML over the past 2 years, and you don't have to MASTER it...just learn the basic tags and that should be more than enough to get you by with auctions.
There are also the "Dummies" books that give a fairly comprehensive overview of HTML, as well as some free Web sites. For example http://www.davesite.com/webstation/html/
Viewing the source of a page also gives you great insight into how pages are built.
[ edited by VIDPRO2 on Feb 7, 2001 11:22 AM ]
posted on February 7, 2001 11:56:46 AM
Everything I know about HTML I learned here. It's basic stuff, but it is enough to list a neat, easy to read auction.
posted on February 7, 2001 12:01:02 PM
Well, I for one cannot believe everyone is complaining so much about this. $20 a month is very little. Sure, I realize a few folks just do this part time for a little extra money, and that $20 might be significant, but for the most part, aren't most folks here listing tons of items and making much more than that? Myself, I'm RELIEVED that they are only charging $20/month, and not some percentage like Andale, which would be a much higher amount for me. Also, if they didnt implement fees, dont you think that sooner or later they'd have to go out of business? Now THAT would be bad, to wake up one day and find that the service you use for all your auctions is suddenly gone, and you are in major limbo!
I think a lot of folks here are perhaps in denial. Bottom line: ANY site, be it new auction site like Bidville etc, or be it auctionwatch, whatever, which is free now, will charge in the future. Why else would they exist - to provide free services and make no money ever?? Of course not.
(hahaha not addressing this to anyone in particular)-
Maybe the people who posted on Goto's board that (and I quote) "If you don't have anything positive to say, don't post" and slammed the heck out of anyone who was even slightly critical of GoTo AND anyone who said that these fees were as inevitable as April 15 should now learn a lesson before doing something like THAT again. I COULD pull specific posts....
posted on February 7, 2001 12:36:01 PM
cjicollectibles: I'd like to know what you think about paying the $120 or fees up front to GoTo.com. Would you complain if you paid the fees up front and then 3 or 6 months down the road they are a "dotbomb" as someone so eloquently put it. What guarantees are there that the fees would every be retrieved? None, of course, but the CEO's have already received their salaries. I can see paying 1 month at a time. Would $120 kill me if I lost it? Would $120 in fees really dent me? No! However, as others have said better, who really owns these new start ups that count on a huge amount of small sellers to reel in the big volume sellers than push the beginners aside. I know that's business, but it's sad. Resistance is Futile, I guess.
posted on February 7, 2001 12:36:55 PMVIDPRO2 Ok, I have a good idea of how to use HTMl & I bookmarked ths site you listed. What I don't have any idea of how to do is get web space on AOL. Where do I go, what do I do & what do I ask for. That's my big problem.
posted on February 7, 2001 01:21:52 PM
I get just a tad ticked off when someone gets hassled for complaining about fee increases.
Personally, I didn't get upset that eBay raised its fees even though over 90% of my listings start below $10 and that was the largest fee increase.
That said, I guess in my fantasy land, I thought it was smart to watch one's costs of doing business. I guess for the people who trot out the "nothing is free" mantra, it doesn't matter whether their profit margin is 5% or 95%. I think this is short-sighted.
There are still a ton of free picture hosting sites out there, including ones that don't advertise themselves as such, but offer free photo albums, etc.
For people who sell/auction hundreds of items each week, it probably makes sense to pay for faster listing services, management software, etc. If the cost of using these services is less than the increase in revenue they provide, they make sense.
For up to 100 items per week, I haven't found it necessary to pay for anything other than eBay's fees. The only edge I might have is that I type 65wpm. In fact, I've actually found that I've saved a lot of time listing right through eBay rather than using a free service to schedule my auctions. I have templates for everything, so really all I have to do is cut/copy/paste/etc.
Again, I realize that cut & paste doesn't cut it if you have a large number of sales per week, but please, folks, stop putting down the people who worry about fees. I figure there are two ways to have more money: increase your income or decrease your expenses - better yet - both!
That's what I'm planning on doing. On my own. I did it before and I can do it again. We all can.
