posted on February 9, 2001 03:35:37 AM
I think Amy works for Ebay. She goes WAY out of the way to defend their actions with some really questionable logic. It happens quite often. Check some other posts.
The statement below is TRUE
The statement above is FALSE.
posted on February 9, 2001 04:13:49 AM
OK nobody really says this -
I found out a long time ago that I can not put up 12 auctions for 3 widgets that I actually own and expect only some of them to sell and be able to end the auctions early if they don't.
Sure as anything if I put up 12 I will go to bed and in the morning I will have sold 12 and my suppliers will tell me they are on back order and it will be 90 days before more are in. Too dangerous.
My experience has been very very bad trying to sell on other sites even with free relists. I just took some items off of a site that had not sold anything for me in 90 days.
I am sure some others have better experiences but it depends a great deal on WHAT they are selling. I sell tools usually and eBay has been the only place so far that sells a regular volume.
Speland you have a serious need to lighten up and not automatically make nasty remarks about someone just because they don't enthusiastically agree with you. When you don't display an ability to accommodate others experience and opinions it may causes others to lend less weight to what you say not more.
That sort of intimidation may work in the family or the work place where people are pretty much stuck with you, but on the web they can turn you off as easy as a telemarkerter.
posted on February 9, 2001 04:36:32 AM
Your "observation" is obviously bias.
Not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. Try reading the thread and you will see who resorts to making childish snide remarks because they can't stick to the subject. Thousands of sellers have had good success when they discovered they no longer need eBay to sell online. This causes a lot of eBay sellers to get defensive because they are tired of paying the fees and resent other sellers who do not pay listing fees.
posted on February 9, 2001 04:51:01 AM
There are no Bids in Bidville.
Visit the site. Go to the category you would sell in. View some of the sellers auction lists. 113 auctions, 0 bids. 210 auctions, 0 bids, 25 auctions, 0 bids. ect. ect. ect.
posted on February 9, 2001 05:20:47 AM
>>That is your decision...but my decision is not to do it that way, and no browbeating by you is going to change my mind.<<
amy, If you are content with paying eBay's fees, I don't want you to change your mind, I wish you well, but there are many sellers who have stated that they are tired of paying these fees. They are doing 99% of the work and paying ebay up to 20% of their profits. Too much work for the money. This is why I left eBay and why I'm motivated to let sellers know that eBay is not their only option. Many Yahoo sellers (now Bidville sellers) have discovered that paying eBay's fees is not the only game on the internet.
posted on February 9, 2001 05:44:22 AM
There are no Bids in Bidville.
Visit the site. Go to the category you would sell in. View some of the sellers auction lists. 113 auctions, 0 bids. 210 auctions, 0 bids, 25 auctions, 0 bids. ect. ect. ect.
Mr Jim, I have sold just under 100 items this week on Bidville. These are "Take it Now" listings. You will not see any bids on these listings because they close with the first bid.
Interestingly, I see that you have "answered" my last post to you from the "Ebay wins Sellers lose" forum here in yet ANOTHER thread (third one and counting that I've seen) you have started on this same, tired subject. It appears your "modus opperandi" is to start threads and when the mass of opinions turns overwhelmingly negative against your position (as it has so far in the first two) you start yet another one, perhaps hoping for a more favorable audience. Interestic tactic, I'll give you credit for that.
In any case, all you've done is to keep repeating your same, tired, vague philosophy that somehow paying fees MUST mean lower profits, contrary to all the evidence and opinions that others have expressed.
A suggestion: perhaps you can show us a few thousand auctions (a statistically significant amount) on ebay compared to free sites, and we can then independently decide which option makes the most profit? In other words, do you have ANY useful evidence to back up your hypothesis that financial nirvana is just over the horizon on these wonderful free sites, if only we fearful and ignorant sellers weren't so blind as to not recognize the wisdom you spout here?
Well, enough from me for now on this topic. Until you present some firm logic and evidence to support your position, it remains exactly what it is now - one person's unsubstantiated personal philosophy.
posted on February 9, 2001 06:32:18 AM
>>- one person's unsubstantiated personal philosophy.<<
Not a philosophy. This is the experience of many sellers who left eBay to sell on Yahoo and are now listing with Bidville. I do not know why you have a problem with other sellers listing for free.
I will have to agree with you "if" one can find the right "free" site. After 5 years on eBay, and being a Power Seller there, I decided to learn Yahoo last January. I mean learn it, and adjust my mentality to using it. Within a month, I had accomplish that, and used it through the first part of January this year. In that year of use, we double our sales, and our income over anything we had ever done on eBay. I was amazed!
Once I got up the 200+ auctions, and you are about right in the amount of auctions one needs to keep running on a site like the “old” Yahoo, then the turn over is as fast or faster than eBay, and the income, since there were no fees was higher.
When we started on Yahoo last January, I had one full time packer working for us, by November of last year we had to add another packer to keep up with the shipping. We sell everything from 1800 antiques to low in novelties.
NOW, with the suicide of Yahoo, we are looking again for a good "free" site, and that of course, is a tiring experience, till we again find a home.
We use eBay from time to time, but only for a few items, and on a sporadic basis.
Currently, we are testing BidBay, BidVille, and Auction Addict. Currently, for us we are getting the best results from BidBay, and Auction Addict, but we haven’t gotten a full complement of auctions up on any of these, since this time it means 200+ auctions running on 3 different sites, but we are getting there.
Business wise, we feel "if" we can find a comparable "free" home base to the "old" Yahoo, we are way ahead of the auction game, as opposed to going back to eBay.....plus we have found in the last 6 months, the items we did test on eBay moved much slower than in the past, and that we could turn the same item on the "free" site twice while ours just sat on eBay waiting for last minute bidders.
I care not a whit where you, or any another seller, lists. List on ebay, list on bidville, list on your front door for all I care.
I just keep awaiting your logic or evidence for how a "free" site, in the long run, can continue to deliver customers and services to sellers to keep the profits equal to, say, ebay.
What I see happening is that sites start out free, because they can't deliver the same customers/results as ebay, and either they've gone out of business or started charging fees. So are you suggesting that sellers become gypsies, moving from free site to free site, each time going through the hassle of re-establishing themselves, waiting months for sales, etc? Or else they eventually end up staying at the site and paying fees anyway, a la Yahoo.
"Free" sites aren't free by the way. There ARE costs associated with slow turnover - borrowing funds, warehousing products, damage to inventory, obsolescence, etc. A good figure of merit is 15%/year for these costs (may be higher even), but if something takes 6 months to sell to "save" 7% ebay fees, you've broken even at best.
Until you can demonstrate a provable advantage to these "free" sites, my evaluation of your opinion stands - an evaluation backed up by about 95% of the other posters here.
Note: I will admit this much: it may be possible, in the short run, for a few sellers to do OK on these sites. What we've seen in the past is that sites have started up, fueled either by personal funds or venture capital from the "internet boom". These sites are free to start, and if you and a few other sellers go there and perhaps your personal customers follow, it can work out OK for awhile. However, new sellers can't start there, since the general flow of customers is miniscule. And, if a lot of sellers tried to migrate to this site, the computer system would crash instantly. I got a laugh from your "90% of ebay sellers could do better at a free site" from one of your other threads. If even 5% of ebay sellers went to Bidville, I've got a sneaking suspicious you'd see a big puff of smoke as their server self-destructed from the overload. Its sort of a catch-22...free sites can work for awhile for a few sellers, but as they continue to exist and perhaps attract more sellers, their resources are strained, requiring them to get more investment, and investors start demanding a return on their investment, meaning fees have to be imposed..and then the sellers who were really just there because it was "free" leave, and now the free site is left with a big investment and no income...
posted on February 9, 2001 07:17:12 AMUsing your reasoning, I would have to assume you are recruiting for eBay.
Really? All I have posted about here (feel free to re-read my posts) is my experience with online auction sites, and I have not recommended that anyone else run their auctions as I do, nor run them at any particular site(s).
Why do you feel the need to discourage others from trying a different approach where they do not have to deduct eBay fees from their profits.
I feel no such need, and have done no such thing. You stated:
"90% or more of the sellers listing with eBay could have the same gross sales and increase their profits selling on the free sites."
and I responded with my experiences concerning free sites to give others another point of view to consider.
Do you not agree that evaluating several courses of action is the best approach? Or are you suggesting that, for all the thousands (or hundreds of thousands or millions- I don't know) of sellers out there, there is only one correct way to run their business?
posted on February 9, 2001 07:18:59 AM
Spreland- I understand what you are saying, and I use the free auctions alot. Personally every seller I know lists on the free sites, and why not? I also know flea market vendors that list their inventory on the free sites during the winter months. Yahoo was a great way to sell excess and slow moving items, but I have moved to bidville, and I am quite happy. Its funny to me that sellers diss free sites, but sites like bidville is growing rapidly lol. I use eBay to sell fast movers, and items that dont make the grade goes on the free sites.
posted on February 9, 2001 07:22:25 AM
jwpc, I went through a similar transition from eBay to Yahoo and never looked back. Bidville has all the momentum with sportscard listings but I don't know if that will affect other categories. I was having the same problem building up my listings, but my sales took off as soon as I hit the "magic" 200 number.
posted on February 9, 2001 07:46:42 AM
chum, This is true. Making an "either or" choice of auction sites may not be the best approach. I like to concentrate most of my listings on one site because a lot of bidders tend to buy more than one item to save on postage. I quit listing with eBay when I discovered that the majority of my cards were selling for the same price or better within a few weeks on Yahoo.
posted on February 9, 2001 08:19:49 AM
I have tried both Gold's and Yahoo in an attempt to break eBay's monopoly, and got *zero* bids for items that sell very consistently on eBay. I can't afford to tie up my inventory for long periods of time, waiting it for it to sell, so I'm sticking with eBay for now. Like so many others, I wish there was a viable alternative. But there's not.
posted on February 9, 2001 08:50:40 AM
Spreland would it possible to point to your auctions on Bidville, I to wish there was an alternative to e bay and in the form of a free site would be great. Let us watch your auctions for a bit and form our own opinions as to your success. I know you cant direct us to your auctions, but I am sure their would be some of us who would like to see your successes. I would be willing to give you my email to forward your user name. Heck we may even buy something from you Those Free things dont remain free very long after, you the seller, builds the site with your customers. How yahoo thinks they can charge amazes me, never would I sell there now, I did use them when they were free, but it not worth the investment of time listing and having to pay to boot, I dont think so!
How long do YOU think bidville (or any "free" site) is going to stay both free and in business? From the day it opens, the venture capital investment starts flowing out the door. Someday (and that day is MUCH sooner these days of the "internet bust" ) either the doors close, or fees are charged.
As long as you have the patience, and your business is portable, by all means keep moving your listings from site to site to site, keeping just one step ahead of the fees.
Most sellers would prefer not to do so, and in fact can make more money even paying fees.
By the way, it may even be that spreeland, as one individual seller, can do better there than ebay, at least as long as it stays free - it all depends on the product mix, etc. Imagine a million spreelands descending on Bidville. Can you say "server crash"?
[ edited by captainkirk on Feb 9, 2001 08:58 AM ]
posted on February 9, 2001 09:31:09 AM
Since I use both approaches (faster flip rate on ebay, and the non-fee mass listing on free sites) I can see both sides of the coin. What Spreland is saying is you won't sell any faster on ebay because either way you're selling 20 items a month. Another advantage is that you could have an outstanding month on the free site and sell 40, whereas on ebay you'd still have 20 sales.
Here's the approach mentioned by a few others. Say on the free site it takes you three months to sell a $9.99 item, for which you origionaly paid $3.85. On ebay, the same item sells on the third try after reducing it to $5. You've paid $1.15 in fees, net $3.85 (broke even). You take that money buy another item for $3.85. After three weeks from the close of the previous auction you have a sale for $9.99. Minus the fees, net $9.19. Take that $9.19, buy another item, list it for double, and in the same three month time frame you're up $17.17 over the free site. So the ebay approach wins in this example. However, it's all THEORETICAL. If you buy another dud, the free site wins as the better approach.
So it really comes down to buying and selling skills. Ebay requires more skill (or luck) to come out ahead.
\"They say the grass is greener on the other side. But have you flipped it over and looked?
\"
[ edited by quickdraw29 on Feb 9, 2001 09:39 AM ]
posted on February 9, 2001 09:41:32 AM
"So it really comes down to buying and selling skills. Ebay requires more skill (or luck) to come out ahead"
Well, if, as many people here have said, items on ebay sell faster and for more money, exactly the opposite of what you say is true.
and again..how long do you think bidville will be both free and in existance? Establishing yourself as a seller at bidville is kinda like starting a flea market booth on the San Adreas fault...
posted on February 9, 2001 10:00:49 AM
Just for the heck of it, I went to Bidville to look at a category I sometimes buy in. I checked out about a dozen auctions, and what I found was that ten of them have opening bids higher than the typical final value on eBay, while the other two were about the same.
I can see why sellers would like that- higher prices and no fees. However... at this point in time, the bidders seem to be at eBay, and I'm not quite sure how higher prices elsewhere are going to encourage them to leave.
Of course, the bidders for your items may be different...
posted on February 9, 2001 10:07:26 AM
CaptK I agree things sell faster and more on ebay, in general. My sell through rate on ebay is 85%. These are my best sellers though. 65% of my inventory are on the roller coaster of demand. Today it may not get one bid, three months from now it could get 25 bids. My last two months on ebay has shown record sales and profits selling things that didn't sell previously in the last year.
So like I said, I use both free sites and ebay to compliement my business because not everyone has an entire inventory of good sellers. If you do, congrats.
posted on February 9, 2001 10:16:27 AM
I guess my only question that I'm trying to address here is whether it makes sense to develop a business strategy that includes "free" sites as a way to dump items that don't sell on ebay. I just think the day of "free" sites is swiftly growing to an end, as the supply of internet venture capital rapidly dries up that funds these kind of sites.
I'm all for using multiple sites to sell on, assuming your item volume/mix is large enough for you to bother with the hassle of multiple sites (multiple rules, multiple bills, etc). I'm just suggesting that if you have items that aren't worth selling unless there are ZERO fees, you may want to find alternative products to sell, or start preparing for the day when you won't be able to sell them (no more free sites).
Free sites ALWAYS look attractive at first..no fees, quick server response time, etc. The problem comes in 6 months when the server has bogged down and fees are announced (or its gone out of business)...if you don't anticipate that, it can hurt you, at least in the short term.
posted on February 9, 2001 10:42:30 AM
My post was with the intentions of actually seeing such a success. I am still thinking that this is just talk, and would like to be proven otherwise. I would be interested in seeing the proOF that this is true and not just Spreland spurting of at the month, with a lot of falsehoods. I am still waiting on proof!! I have not seen a site yet which can produce the results or profit margins of E BAY. Till I see some concrete evidence otherwise I know where my listings will go. I doubt seriuosly if anyone can produce any evidence to the contary.
posted on February 9, 2001 04:35:32 PM
It all depends on what you sell and how much you invest in your inventory as to whether a free site with little traffic will work for you or not.
Yahoo probably had the best traffic of all the free sites but in order to sell there one almost had to use a "buy it now" strategy (if former posts on the subject where to be believed). If the merchant wanted a fixed price sale business plan, then yahoo probably fit the bill.
There were lots of posters who claimed to sell better at yahoo than they did at ebay...but it was very interesting to see how many of them decided to no longer "yahoo" when fees were instituted. From what I read, the reasons for moving off yahoo once they had to pay fees was because the items did not move fast enough (had to sit for MANY relists until the items finally sold) to make selling there profitable AFTER fees.
There are those of us who do not want to sell "fixed price" (ie..solely "buy it now" ). I think I make a much better profit if my items are allowed to be sold in an auction envirornment. This allows the item to move to the best price when more than one person wants the item.
But an auction requires more than one person being interested in the item...it NEEDS the bidding of two or more to make it an auction. The free sites do not have the traffic (bidders) to generate enough interest in an item to get a good auction going.
I have had to many items go through the roof to chance putting things at a buy it now price. No matter how much I know about antiques and collectibles, there is no way I can know everything...this means there is to much of a chance of low-balling an item with a buy it now price and not getting the profit on it I should.
I recently bought a lot of small Enesco figurines. I had never seen them before but they were cute and the $25 I paid was small enough that I figured I should at least double the investment. When I researched them on ebay the figurines normally only brought from $3-$10 each...most closer to the low end...but the accesory pieces did get a bit more. I listed the figures with buy it now at 2 for $6.99...but I listed the honey pot and music box at $6.99 no reserve. The honey pot ended at $100 and the music box ended at $68.
BUT...there had been no honey pots or music boxes sold the previous 2 weeks. If I had used prior sales of similar pieces from the line I probably would have listed the two pieces at about $19.99 buy it now...and lost $128...And I doubt if there would have been enough bidders on the free sites to have pushed these items up this far if I had tried auctioning them.
I know some think we sellers should invest our time building up another site so there is competition for ebay or there is an alternative to ebay. I have no problem with those who want to do that. But I'm not in this to build sites...I'm trying to run a business using the most profitable tools I can find. Right now that tool is ebay. If, per chance, others build another site to the point that I can get the same profits I get on ebay then I will also list there...but I won't be wasting my time building that site. I'll leave it to those who feel it is important to do it.
Last year I sold almost $72,000 0n ebay...my fees were $5400, or 7.6% of my sales. On a free site I doubt I would have sold the same dollar amount. I seriously believe the amount would have been quite a bit less than $66,600 (which is my sales on ebay minus my fees). Rather than MAKING more money by selling on a free site because I saved the fees, I would have been quite a bit poorer because my items would not have reached the same high sales price they did on ebay.
As someone else said...you want me to believe the free sites are better then PROVE it. Lets see the books, lets see what you sell, lets see what the volume is you do. Otherwise...well, I have never followed pied pipers.
PS..Horizonod...I only work for myself. Ebay is only a tool for me to use in my business, not my employer. I don't have the time to work for them...nor the desire.
[ edited by amy on Feb 9, 2001 04:37 PM ]
posted on February 9, 2001 05:25:57 PM
>>>I am still thinking that this is just talk, and would like to be proven otherwise. I would be interested in seeing the proOF that this is true and not just Spreland spurting of at the month, with a lot of falsehoods.<<<<
LOL....If you were really interested in seeing "proof" that "there was an alternative to eBay" you would have already looked for yourself.
The imformation is readily available. You can follow the performance of items for as many sellers as you choose by clicking on the link that shows all the sellers listings. You may track the seller(s) auctions for as long as you like. You can do a search on Yahoo's "closed auctions" to see the closing prices for any type of item you choose.
You do not want "proof". You are paying fees out of your profits and the only way you can justify this is by arguing that there is no better alternative to eBay. You want to believe that you have no other option. Its the only way you can justify paying eBay's excessive fees.
posted on February 9, 2001 06:08:18 PM
Spreland
This one may get me a stern warning but so be it. I have followed the 3 count them 3 threads that you have begun in the last couple of days on this subject. I am gettng very tired of the attitude you show towards people that do nothing but post a inteligent response to your posts.
For someone who "Make my living at this"
you seem to spend a lot of time writing posts to these threads. My PERSONAL opinion is that you are FULL OF IT and that you probaly have actualy posted very few auctions in your time let alone make a living at doing so. I truly do not think you have any idea whether or not a free site is better and more profitable to use because you have proven over and over here by your lack of inteligent responses that you have any idea what you are talking about.
My best guess is that you have nothing better to do and this is the most attention you have recieved in some time and are enjoying that fact. Until YOU not someone else who may truly be a business person give ME some proof as to your success I will continue to shake my head at your unfounded statements.
Moderator I await your leter but sometimes enough is enough.
posted on February 9, 2001 06:37:27 PM
>>>Until YOU not someone else who may truly be a business person give ME some proof as to your success I will continue to shake my head at your unfounded statements.
Moderator I await your leter but sometimes enough is enough.<<<<
I don't know why your comments would bother the moderators. They don't bother me.
You can track all the sales of as many sellers as you choose on the free sites, but you would only accept my success as proof. No thanks, I don't need the juveniles on these boards messing with my auctions and my feedback.
You are not looking for "proof". The imformation is readily available. You WANT to believe eBay is your only option. You NEED to believe you have no other choice than to pay eBay's fees. Ebay owns you. Ebay is your master. DOWN ON YOUR KNEES AND WORSHIP YOUR GOD.
posted on February 9, 2001 06:40:45 PM
Surfsworth--I agree with your post.
"For someone who "Make my living at this"
you seem to spend a lot of time writing posts to these threads. My PERSONAL opinion is that you are FULL OF IT and that you probaly have actualy posted very few auctions in your time let alone make a living at doing so. "
Listing & managing an auction business takes time & I find myself lurking here & reading threads & sometimes I feel like I am procrastinating a lot when I have to get to work! LOTS of work to do packing & managing my weekly auctions. Again no complaints as I have had a STELLAR week on ebay this week.
True--if you spend a lot of time posting on threads--like spreeland has done how can you keep up with your business.
I just tend to lurk around here sometimes & I don't have alot of time to post but I love reading about tips & advice for selling.
I have to disagree that free sites are more profitable..[redbounce]
I stopped listing on free sites a long time ago as it isn't worth it but have never stopped listing on eBay as I always have 95% success rate there!
Listing fees are just part of the cost of business.. if you had a brick & mortar store you would be paying more on overhead...
My auctions this week showed that for the amount of sales I made I only paid 9.7% listing & FVF to ebay.
NOT BAD at all!
Ebay is still worth it!
I am staying here & i Believe the best is yet to come...
Sometimes we get what we prophesy over ourselves you know...What we fear actually happens to us..so why not THINK in FAITH rather than be controlled by fear...
Just my .02 worth
[ edited by araindrop5 on Feb 9, 2001 06:43 PM ]
[ edited by araindrop5 on Feb 9, 2001 06:45 PM ]
