codasaurus
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:48:31 PM new
Fonthill,
If this action is against the law then file suit for damages.
Otherwise just admit that you are venting here and please have the decency to leave our Constitution out of this. eBay has done nothing unconstitutional.
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:52:34 PM new
Mivona! - thank-you! You understand!!!!
This is the issue - the first is a matter of opinion, although I don't think I was stepping over the line and there are way too many rules to protect the guilty...however, its ebay's playground and they can make the rules - the question is being told to remove the quote from the ebay letter - This is censorship at its worst, and an illegal move...
Thanks-you for understanding the point.
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 03:54:43 PM new
codasaurus
Then live happily in your fascist state if you think they have done nothing wrong - GEEZ some you don't deserve to live in free country - although I at least respect your right to blather on stupidly...
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reddeer
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:01:48 PM new
What the hell does Jews & Hitler have to do with this? Get a friggen grip.
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:03:08 PM new
Never mind reddeer and go back to your la la land of red white and blue. WHen they come knocking on your door for your books don't whine at me!
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Powerhouse
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:09:34 PM new
Fonthill, you started out very consisely and well thought-out, but you are letting some of the dissenting opinions get to you.
It becomes obvious when you start comparing posters to Nazi Germany, or calling them names.
This is an all too common occurance around here.
Some advice, If I may?
Take a deep breath. Think out your repsonse. Then post.
You have taken up a difficult issue so some may not see your true point in the posts.
Good luck.
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reddeer
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:11:21 PM new
I live in Canada, & with any luck there's a Province or two between us.
I'd say I've never read such dribble on AW, but lately there seems to be an overabundance of threads like this.
Carry on .............
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:13:00 PM new
Thanks Powerhouse - point well taken.
Yes, I am upset because some don't seem to be able to see the issue. I will no longer reply to them. Analogies and irony seem to be lost on many...
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uaru
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:15:45 PM new
fonthill if this doesn't upset you then you are as guilty as the Germans who let Hitler into power and then took no blame at the end of the war for the third reich
Is there an AuctionWatch TOS about being over dramatic in a post? If their is I believe you crossed the line with both feet. 
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sg52
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:19:46 PM new
THAT IS THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH PART I AM TALKING ABOUT!
Your freedom of speech cannot be used to compel eBay (or AuctionWatch) to publish your speech.
Speak all you like, eBay's not going to stop you. But if you demand that someone else publish what you say, you might get turned down.
sg52
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:34:40 PM new
Thanks Sg52 - I understand...
So in other words, although the quote is on my "ME" page and I make their company between $500.00 and $1,000.00 per month in transaction fees, they hold ownership of the site and can therefore have anything they want removed from their site at their whim and they don't have to justify their actions legally, because they are the publishers, and therefore can do what they like...
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uaru
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:40:25 PM new
fonthill I make their company between $500.00 and $1,000.00 per month in transaction fees
Do you think the rules should be determined on a person's sales?
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Powerhouse
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:53:56 PM new
uaru, I am not a power-seller and never will be, but I have come to gather over time the impression that, while the rules are not exactly made by those with the most sales, there is in operation the philosophy that 'some are more equal than others'.
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amy
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:55:23 PM new
"So in other words, although the quote is on my "ME" page and I make their company between $500.00 and $1,000.00 per month in transaction fees, they hold ownership of the site and can therefore have anything they want removed from their site at their whim and they don't have to justify their actions legally..."
BINGO!!! I think he got it!
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RB
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posted on February 9, 2001 04:56:38 PM new
I think a Moderator is needed here. Some of this guy's comments are way out of line ...
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Powerhouse
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posted on February 9, 2001 05:00:15 PM new
I agree, RB. Some WAY out of line.
He seems to have gotten that point but hasn't seen fit to offer any appology for it. 
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fonthill
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posted on February 9, 2001 05:21:12 PM new
You have no idea how sorry I am that I brought this point up in forum. Half of you didn't get the point, some just took the opportunity to poke at the monkey in the cage with a stick, and others sit smuggly on their laurels with the contemplative realization that I am supposed to accept power can be abused at will when a corrupt system is criticized - BOY AM I SORRY!
I am not reading any more posts, so say what you like... I do thank those that offered real advise, and those that offered their sympathies. It's nice to have considerate and intelligent posts sometimes...
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twelvepole
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posted on February 9, 2001 06:07:57 PM new
some just took the opportunity to poke at the monkey in the cage with a stick
especially when the monkey starts flinging dung for no reason. 
I think Reddeer, Uaru, Amy all got it...
BOY AM I SORRY! Yep couldn't agree more fonthill
Ain't Life Grand...
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Capriole
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posted on February 9, 2001 06:55:33 PM new
Hey fonthill
Cop a clue, buddy. You are not practicing free speech, you are practicing commercial speech that infringes on ebay policy.
Want free speech?
try
http://www.freespeech.org/
see what real censorship is about.
What is up with this comment?
although I at least respect your right to blather on stupidly...
Unnecessary. resorting to name calling doesn't sway me to your argument.
Ebay owns their turf, they let you rent a billboard (about me page) and they have the right to say what goes and what doesn't.
Don't like deadbeats? Get a yahoo site and keep the ACLU's number handy in case you need it!
ps..I know deadbeats are agro, but why keep the flame alive? Move on, otherwise you spend all your ebay money on stress diseases.
NOT Capriole on ebay so, as Barrelracer says, don't bug 'em
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Shadowcat
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posted on February 10, 2001 06:05:51 AM new
...although I at least respect your right to blather on stupidly...
No, you don't. If you did, you wouldn't be insulting people who disagreed with you.
Oh, and I got the point you were trying to make, even without the histrionics. But hey, who am I to stop you from stupidly blathering on?
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jwpc
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posted on February 10, 2001 06:37:54 AM new
I don't know why eBay is making such a fuss, if the average "ME" page gets the same amount of hits as mine, no one will see your list anyway......at least so few writing a list is a waste of time.
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codasaurus
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posted on February 10, 2001 11:04:39 AM new
It is remarkable how many people so often confuse "seeing the point" with "agreeing with my opinion".
Fonthill,
I understand the difference.
eBay asked you to remove personally identifiable information from your "About Me" page as it conflicts with eBay's TOS that you agreed to abide by.
ebay asked you to remove a quote from an email that you placed on that same page in protest against eBay supposedly harboring deadbeats. A quote that you placed there to make eBay look bad.
You contend that because it is a "Me" page that you own and control its content and that eBay is violating some Constitutional right to Free Speech.
Many folks, myself included, have taken the trouble to point out to you just what our Constitution says about the right to Free Speech and how it does not relate to private property and businesses.
Do you see our point?
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codasaurus
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posted on February 10, 2001 11:22:41 AM new
Fonthill,
"I am Canadian, and I really don't think that this sort of action would be allowable under Canadian law as it inhibits the right to report fact, as it is quoted (as required for academics which is the only realm of legal responsibility I know of when it comes to freedom of speech)."
You aren't sure of your own rights under Canadian Law?
And in terms of Freedom of Speech as espoused by The Constitution I fail to see how inhibiting the report of fact can be construed as a violation of right. Based on your assertion, you could argue that calling up a radio or TV station and proceeding to quote that email over the air is your right and that if the station cut of or refused to air your call they would be denying you the right of Free Speech.
Also, I believe you would have a hard time convincing anyone that the email was a public document and therefore could be freely quoted over the objection of the author. Did eBay send that email to you specifically or did it post it publicly?
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sonsie
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posted on February 10, 2001 05:24:39 PM new
I see some people still haven't absorbed their basic civics. "Free speech" doesn't mean you can say anything you want to at any time, in any venue.
The Constitution specifically protects us against GOVERNMENT interference with freedom of speech (as several people have already pointed out). EBay is a private venue, and can make its own rules about what may be posted in auctions, discussion forums, or any other place controlled by eBay.
As for email, current legal thinking is that it is akin to written mail. The writer/sender of mail owns the copyright on it and also owns the right to reprint it. The recipient is severely restricted as to what use can be made of the letter that is in his or her possession, and publishing in (on a web page or in the newspaper, etc.) is forbidden without the permission of the writer.
All this is a roundabout way of saying that if eBay sent you a private email, you do not have the right to print it, in whole or in part, on your eBay-controlled web page (or elsewhere) without eBay's permission.
Your rights have not been violated, this is not Nazi Germany, no books have been burned.
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gravid
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posted on February 10, 2001 05:48:18 PM new
And as far as power sellers being "more equal" boy have you ever got delusions there.
We have a special mail address so we can get the stupid replies that don't relate to the question a day faster than everyone else. Being a power seller is like having a big target on your back so every slam artist that sees your sales will figure out some vero ploy or complaint about your title or description to get your auction pulled. To thin out the category for his stuff.
I dropped the designation months ago.
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mivona
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posted on February 11, 2001 02:45:48 AM new
It IS Ebay's private space, but WHAT IS WRONG WITH QUOTING AN EMAIL THAT THEY HAVE SENT TO YOU? Can anyone explain, please?
If anything, you would think that they would be please that someone is reiterating their "official policy" about contact information. If email addresses were being posted, I absolutely agree with Ebay about that being unacceptable. If he was simply identifying particular IDs as deadbeats, and responding to their retailatory negs, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
Forget the "freedom of speech" angle... concentrate on the policy of the moment, what it means and how it is applied.
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horizonod
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posted on February 11, 2001 03:14:21 AM new
FONTHILL. Don't get discouraged. There are many good people here who are intelligent, compassionate, friendly and helpful.
There are others that just lie in wait for somebody to make a spelling error so they can find fault with them.
Those are the insecure people that can't get any attention in the real world and are forced to eat crap all day. They try to pull themselves up the only way they know how, by trying to pull others down to their level.
Don't let them do it.
If you start responding at their level you will start a feeding frenzy and all of the sharks will come out of the woodwork because they have the support of their fellow sheep. They stroke each other into a mass attack, get off then go away feeling the glow of the only power they know. They are followers. They can't think intelligently for themselves so they spout off ignorantly until the group is large enough for a real good circle jerk.
Now.................
I don't know if this point has been made,
BUT if EBAY would BOOT the deadbeats like they say they will in THEIR TOS the problem would not have gone this far.
Ebay can, does and will do whatever they want because they are the 800 lb gorilla but that doesn't make it right.
The other thing I don't understand is this thing about posting user info. Any Ebay member can access anybodies user info. It's not like it's some big secret.
Ebay also can and does sell our private user information which seems especially hypocritical in this instance.
Many of you are blinded to EBAYs actions because your noses are so firmly planted that you can't see the forest for the cheeks.
*********************************
Politicians and diapers should be changed frequently and for the same reason.
*******************************
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.
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horizonod
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posted on February 11, 2001 03:34:49 AM new
Fonthill. Know this: The JUST US system in the US is a joke. It has been perverted and whored out by lawyers for so long even they can't make sense of it.
Your point has nothing to do with freedom of speech so forget that. Ebay CAN make their own rules. You have the freedom to DISAGREE but if you want to change their silly policy I'm affraid you'll have to buy them out. MONEY is the only thing the have on their greedy little minds.
If you feel it's wrong just say so. The constitution has nothing to do with it.
Personally I don't understand the policy that prohibits you from posting information anybody that's a member has access to.
*********************************
Politicians and diapers should be changed frequently and for the same reason.
*******************************
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.
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jrb3
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posted on February 11, 2001 06:43:20 AM new
Fonthill, When I worked at the GAP some 5 years ago, we used to post pictures of CONVICTEd shoplifters in the employee break room. We were informed this was illegal. Hey if you can't post CONVICTED crimanals pictures I see why Ebay doesn't allow "NPBs". Some of these people may not have intentionally not paid, lost payments or misunderstandings do happen. Just move your page to an off Ebay site and move on.
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RB
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posted on February 11, 2001 07:06:48 AM new
"if you want to change their silly policy I'm affraid you'll have to buy them out."
Or do what you and I did ... just walk away from eBay. If enough people "walk the walk", eBay will eventually figure it out. Problem is, too many people are addicted to eBay. They come here and rant and carry on, get stroked, then go back to their listing and bidding feeling all refreshed.
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