posted on February 9, 2001 06:56:53 PM
Ok I have nothing ending until Sunday My auctions are caught up.
1. Bidville - SOMEONE here stated they have sold 100 items this week on that site and mostly from take it sales. I have not seen a seller with more than a 15 feedback rating there. Please show me more than a couple of sellers there with a higher rating. I am sure I could have missed it. I would imagine someone selling that much there would have a very high feedback.
Yes I do look at other sites and have listed on other sites. I can take $20.00 dollars and turn it over 10 times in the time I sell the item once at another site.
compared to investing the same $20.00 on merchandise to sell at another site. Thus making the small overhead on Ebay very well worth it.
Just my personal
experience.
[ edited by surfsworth on Feb 9, 2001 06:58 PM ]
posted on February 9, 2001 07:01:57 PM
Well, let me see, if a site (like Bidville) is going to succeed, it needs BIDDERS. So, myself, a BIDDER, just visited Bidville.
I went to the baseball card section and browsed. It took four minutes to load the first listing page, three to load the next. About 98% of the listings were the same common garbage (10 cent cards) that was wasting server space at Yahoo. Some of the decent items were drawing bids, however.
The starting bids were about 50% of book on average. I BUY the stuff at ebay for 30% of book, if that (like many hobbies, the books in cards GROSSLY overestimate the real sales prices).
No, I won't be going back soon. It was the same waste of time that yahoo auctions was before the fees.
Interestingly enough, I've been drawn back to Yahoo. The junk is virtually gone. A much higher percentage of items actually draw bids. I have a feeling 95% of the listings disappeared but very few of the bidders.
I see your handle is spreland now, rather than spreROCK (remember him?) Your MO is still the same though. Post a far fetched manifesto and attack anybody who pokes holes in it.
Giddey up Horsey.
posted on February 9, 2001 07:12:01 PM
We've only shipped a few of those items that were paid thru PayPal. We just made the transition from Yahoo to Bidville in the last 3 weeks. Our sales started taking off this week. If you want to "prove" eBay is your only option, I think Pootah is really dead. It will make you feel better when you are paying eBay's fees.
posted on February 9, 2001 07:19:08 PM
Why don't you look at Yahoo's closed auctions. You can do a search for any type of item and it will show you what the items sold for. No longer a free site, but the vast majority of closed auctions were listed for free.
posted on February 9, 2001 07:26:57 PM
>>>I see your handle is spreland now, rather than spreROCK (remember him?) Your MO is still the same though. Post a far fetched manifesto and attack anybody who pokes holes in it. Giddey up Horsey.<<<<<
Then you should remember all the flak I caught from the eBay card sellers for my Yahoo "manifesto". I noticed that many of those sellers flaming my Yahoo "manafesto", quietly left eBay when their sales tanked and started listing with Yahoo.
posted on February 9, 2001 07:40:12 PM
The topic here is more profits with FREE sites. SOMEONE keeps going on about bidville that is why i asked about bidvile. Now a backpeddle. My note about looking at and trying free sites was ignored in an attempt to avoid answering the question.
Here is number 2.
Lets take sport cards. I just looked at ended items on Bidville of 85 items 23 sold for somewhere around a 30% sell rate. On Ebay my main catagory sells honestly probaly 99% of the time on the first listing. Now I do have other things I add in that are probaly only around 60%. But I am using my main catagory for comparison here.
I spend x dollars on an item to list on ebay and sell 99% in 1 to 7 days. I spend x dollars on an item on Bidville and have to list it an average of 21 days to sell it. I think even though my ebay costs are about 7% I will profit much higher by selling 3 items in 21 days minus 7% than 1 item in 21 days minus o%.
Can you tell me from the above that I would not make more profit paying my 7% fees?
I restate here I have and do list on free auction sites. Have they been more profitable NO.
You may want to take a look at this---Rich
http://www.genxi.com/mark/low/low.html
posted on February 9, 2001 07:42:59 PM
Trouble is, I don't see any evidence of sales tanking at Ebay. Ebay closes a much greater percentage of auctions than Bidville ever did. And your claim that these dealers left ebay isn't backed up by facts, so I'll discount it accordingly.
Now many dealers eeked out a niche on yahoo, and I can give them credit for that. But as a group, dealers make more on Ebay. Otherwise they wouldn't be around.
I find it comical that you would base your assertion that Bidville is superior to ebay based on THREE WEEKS of activity. LOLLOLLOL
Actually I was referring to the ridiculous gouge shop threads on Usenet anyway.
This "free listing" controversy kind of reminds me of a business that I used to frequent. Every year, as the rent went up, he'd relocate to a less expensive location. He claimed that his customers would follow. Most did at first, but every year the percentage was less. And as he moved to lower rent and then lower rent shopping districts, he would pick up fewer new customers. Kind of reminds me of this. Anything worth having (sales, some base level of customer service, server response time) is worth paying for. Otherwise you'd find malls in some wind blown industrial complex away from highways rather than where they are now.
posted on February 9, 2001 07:43:08 PM
and yet you still haven't answered the basic question: what do you do when the free sites are gone? Venture capital is almost gone now, the days of "ALWAYS FREE" are almost gone with it.
If your business plan depends on free sites you are in trouble.
Or do you seriously believe there will be sites that are "free forever!" (snicker snicker)?
Your original proposition: "90% of ebay sellers can do better on free sites" remains completely unproven, and, in fact, if even a small fraction of ebay sellers went to free sites, they would self destruct so fast from overload it would make your head spin.
But it is convenient to your argument to ignore these "minor" issues.
posted on February 9, 2001 07:54:40 PM
>>Actually I was referring to the ridiculous gouge shop threads on Usenet anyway.<<<
LOL.....I forgot about those. You are talking WAY back. Then again...all the "gouge" shops are gone. I'm still here. The writing was on the wall. We have one shop left in the city. The other 8 or 9 shops closed down.
posted on February 9, 2001 08:03:40 PM
While E-Bay is the biggest part of my sales,I do list items on free sites.I sell alot of items I have several of.If they happen to sell on other sites,thats just extra income and the fact is some items I have sold on E-Bay are now dead because I have sold my limit there,where when I place them on another site, they start selling again,and even bring a better price.I have had fair results on Bidville for no more than I've put on there.I've have 5 sales in the last week.
posted on February 9, 2001 08:06:49 PM
>>Your original proposition: "90% of ebay sellers can do better on free sites" remains completely unproven, and, in fact, if even a small fraction of ebay sellers went to free sites, they would self destruct so fast from overload it would make your head spin.<<<
If 90% of ebay sellers went to free sites eBay would suffer the same meltdown you are currently seeing on Yahoo. Ebays advertising would not prevent buyers from following the merchandise to the free sites.
posted on February 9, 2001 08:10:50 PM
The fact that the so called "gouge shops" are gone proves my point as well.
They were leaching off of the success of the hobby, without adding anything to the industry, and without serving the customers that fell off legit dealers.
Their prices were too high, without offering the services that justify high prices. They failed because after a while they were unable to turn merchandise at their high prices and service levels.
You see, I'm looking at it as a bidder. I buy better stuff cheaper at eBay. As far as service, well when I need four minutes to load a page on another site, the service ain't there.
How about the seller's perspective? eBay has the only thing that counts: bidders. Businesses have always put up with whatever poor service they get, because all the responsiveness to emails (by Auction houses)in the world doesn't sell sports cards to buyers.
In return, sellers get quick turn of their merchandise. I think I read somewhere that BM stores have to turn merchandise 8-10 times a year to be profitable. 2-3% sellthrough ain't doing it.
To summarize, some dealers will make money on Bidville, or whatever flavor of the month site. Nowhere near 90%, though. Probably nowhere near .90% even.
Based on your irrelevant response to my third or forth attempt to get you to answer a basic question, it is apparent that you are missing the point or intentionally avoiding answering it, since the answer, no doubt, clearly dooms your position. If mass numbers of sellers go to a "free" site, the existing infrastructure (servers, etc), can't handle the load. It self destructs. Or starts charging.
Small sites can be "free" for awhile, surviving on initial venture capital, enthusiasm of the founders, etc. If 90% of the people left ebay for free sites, the free ones would self destruct, or start charging fees.
So much for your basic premise.
Well, its late here, so I'm just going to end it for the night. I'm probably not returning to this thread, because its getting into a rut.
If you can demonstrate an auction site business model (not just a bunch of vague armwaving argument) that supports no fees and a lot of buyers and sellers (not just an inital burst of venture capital that eventually runs out), then perhaps we can have a reasonable discussion, but otherwise his proposition is worthless to most sellers.
PS - bluelight.com just announced they will no longer offer free isp service, joining a long line of other failed ISPs. Yet MORE proof that I'm right. "free" is dead on the net.
[ edited by captainkirk on Feb 9, 2001 08:26 PM ]
posted on February 9, 2001 08:25:44 PM
Is Yahoo having a meltdown? I'm not so sure. Bidders provide the key, because they provide the grease that makes it all run.
I'd love to see a comprehensive study done, but if Yahoo had 2,000,000 listings and 100,000 sales/week before, and now they have 200,000 listings and 50,000 sales, seems to me they are probably better off, rather than worse, especially since the listings are producing money (listing fees).
The page impressions may be the wildcard. But with the diminishing value of banner ads, it might not be as bad as it would have been previously. I wonder how many of the extraneous auctions were actually looked at anyway.
Would eBay have a meltdown if 90% of listings went away? Yes. But remember that ebay's listings produce income for them. Even the ones that weren't looked at. Yahoo's lost listings produced only banner income, which is negligible these days.
posted on February 9, 2001 08:39:47 PM
>>>and yet you still haven't answered the basic question: what do you do when the free sites are gone?<<<<
This isn't a question. It's an assumption. But lets assume you are right. I didn't leave eBay because they were charging fees. I left because the fees are excessive. It wasn't a win/win situation. Ebays "fast turnover" meant that I was working my ass off and they were taking 15% to 20% of my profits. An auction site doesn't have to be free to offer a win/win situation.
posted on February 9, 2001 08:51:29 PM
>>Is Yahoo having a meltdown? I'm not so sure.<<
Me neither. But I have strong doubts about their current rates. Most of my items would have to sell on the first or second listing or it would be equivalent to working for eBay again.
posted on February 9, 2001 09:11:05 PM
PS - bluelight.com just announced they will no longer offer free isp service, joining a long line of other failed ISPs. Yet MORE proof that I'm right. "free" is dead on the net.
All of my free ISP's are gone but I signed up with worldnet for $12.50/month. No advertising banners and they don't bump me off line. Yet more proof that an ISP doesn't have to be free to offer a win/win situation. AOLers and Ebayers get a clue. You are paying for all that advertising.
posted on February 9, 2001 09:56:10 PM
>>>Seems like this isn't a whole lot different than saying:
Yet more proof that an auction site doesn't have to be free to offer a win/win situation.<<
potatohead, I just stated this about 5 posts back. Regardless of which site you list with it is in the best interests of ALL sellers that eBay is not a monopoly.
posted on February 9, 2001 10:43:44 PM
Gheesh, it was hard staying with the topic "Less Profits with ebay" on this thread...getting through all the personal conflicts. It sounds like there may be sports card sellers in here (which I know nothing about) so my perspective may be a bit different.
Yes, ebay has become much less profitable. For many reasons, including the new breed of non-responding, non-paying bidders that seem to be all over ebay that I and most of my seller friends are now having to deal with. Talk about wasting time (re the free sites) as some of you did.
I just had 6 auctions close 2 days ago and have received only one response. I have another that closed more than two weeks ago...no response. I have a package sitting here for 2 months...non paying bidder. This is all ebay. Talk about wasting time and money! In a year and a half I never had this happen to me before at ebay. And that affects my profits.
As for auctions closing with no listings, I was over at ebay looking at closing auctions in categories that interest me (many different types of collectibles and antiques)....whole pages were closing with no bids. Some pages had one bid on them, closing at the starting price. Doesn't look much different to me over there anymore than a lot of the free sites.
Do I sell at ebay? Yes, but for the first time ever, I also started listing at a free site. Even if it sits at a free site for awhile before it sells, at least I am not giving it away for little to no profit and working darn hard to do it
I'm 25+ years in the business. It is bad "out here" also.... factor in the economy, online and off.
I cannot understand why, when someone posts their success at one site or speaks well of it, others attack them ~ be it ebay, bidville, bidbay, epier, etc. What is everybody so angry at one another for? Some are so consistently negative about EVERYTHING and EVERYONE that I have learned to go right past their post when I see their nic cause it is so depressing. As for the fighting, could it be as my psychologist daughter suggested..... .when people are angry in their own lives at people and things that they don't have the courage to confront, they then spew their venom out elsewhere? (She explains it more clearly from a professional point of view).
Well, guilty here, too, as I surely got OT myself.
YES, THERE ARE NOW LESS PROFITS AT EBAY ACCORDING TO ALL THE SELLERS I KNOW PERSONALLY, AND FOR MANY REASONS. The online auction scene is changing rapidly....why battle the current or other people...aint gonna change a dang thing...
aramatha
posted on February 9, 2001 11:17:44 PM
A lot of big time sellers apparently have faith in Bidbay. I believe most people transferred their feedback from ebay and Yahoo to Bidbay because most people there have high feedback. But, when you check how many listings they each have it is quite high. With many power sellers putting big effort listing on free sites, how bad can those sites be?
\"They say the grass is greener on the other side. But have you flipped it over and looked?
\"
posted on February 9, 2001 11:58:10 PM
>>>I was over at ebay looking at closing auctions in categories that interest me (many different types of collectibles and antiques)....whole pages were closing with no bids<<<<
This is why I do not respond to isolated claims of 85% or 95% sell thru rates on eBay. I don't doubt these claims but I look at eBay's completed auctions on a regular basis so I know they do not represent the norm.
