posted on February 25, 2001 01:55:39 AM
Hello All -
PayPal costs, as well as any other transaction fees, are merely the `cost of doing business'. I would equate trying to charging credit card payment fees, back to a customer, the same as a situation when one seller (no longer on the electronic bay)who tried to include their auction fees in the cost of the sale. NO WAY!!! On auction type sales, I win some and I lose some, but in the long run, you must see if your balance sheet supports the business you have chosen.
posted on February 25, 2001 04:02:38 AM
VARGAS, we will wait a long time for a response to your question because there is no logical response. If you are truly conducting an auction (low opening bids and no reserves) then you cannot build the overheads into the price - period. However, it appears that few sellers really conduct auctions. My guess is that less than 10% of items in the categories we sell in (antiques and collectibles) are being auctioned. The rest have minimum bids or reserves at or above retail value. In essence, this PayPal surcharge is the shipping charge argument all over again. Costs need to be recovered and buyers need to understand they are paying those costs (shipping, boxes, labels, labor to pack, PayPal fees, Visa fees, and even my coffee break) whether they are stated or not. It cannot be any other way. As someone else pointed out, however, it is more "polite" to not state the obvious.
posted on February 25, 2001 05:13:14 AM
It seems to me that in an age when a package of gum costs between 50 and 65 cents that there are some pretty strong feelings about 30 cents - on both sides of the aisle.
Cheers, Jim.
All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegcaps awound?
posted on February 25, 2001 05:37:23 AMvargas - They're not listing it in their auction, but, are including it in their end of auction notices. Customers (in store) speaking of Pay Pal have complained to me about it when reviewing others sales. The idea is "they" tend to stay away from auctions that charge for the use of Pay Pal. Sellers do themselves a disservice (sp) by charging additional fees of such. It's another form of being unprofessional about selling. In some cases you just suck it up and look at the average sale not individual sales. How many customers have been upset over pennies while the dollars slipped through their hands? ...Plenty!
[ edited by Empires on Feb 25, 2001 05:40 AM ]
posted on February 25, 2001 05:59:05 AM
To paraphrase what one other poster said, If you don't charge your costs into a sale then you won't be in business for long.
That's the nut. On ePAY there are some folks cleaning out closets or picking at garage sales and others that are running businesses, paying staff, taxes, and all the other wonderful things that make a company work.
The fact is that if a seller is being honest then it's up to a bidder to choose to bid or not.
I still laugh when I see some baby complaining about S&H fees or extra surcharges?????
If a seller clearly posts in his listing that if you want to use Paypal that it will cost extra simply don't use that seller?? There are millions of listings on ebay, no???
If a seller charges a flat fee and you don't like it shop with another seller???
As someone that's sold thousands of items on Ebay and Amazon over the last few years, not to mention buying hundreds of lots, it's really not that complex!!
Add the S&H fees + your bid. If you're happy then all is well. And you can always email the seller BEFORE you bid or the end of the auction and ask for a clarification or change to their policy??
Finally, manners people!! It costs nothing to write a polite, short and to the point email to someone at any part of the online buying process. You'd be amazed how many NF's can be prevented by this.
posted on February 25, 2001 06:02:18 AM
Just my comment on PayPal charges! Being a small seller on ebay (or ePay as I think of them) I find that I'm being 'nickel and dimed' to death by all the charges which are added by ePay and Paypal. Although I do accept Paypal I clearly state in both my auctions and my winning bidder email, that although the choice of payment method is up to the winning bidder, I prefer check or Money Order. I state that Paypal charges me a fee when they use this method of payment. Most winning bidders opt at that point to send a check or MO. Since doing this, only 2 people (out of 50+ auctions) have opted to pay with Paypal. This keeps me happy and still gives my high bidders a choice of payment method.
posted on February 25, 2001 06:29:50 AM
If you are a seller and you have a PAYPAL logo on your auction, I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY EXTRA - PERIOD !!!
I am not looking through ebay listings to find these idiots (I do not have the time nor do I feel like doing it), but when I am looking to purchase an item and I find what I want, that listing better not try to charge me extra for online payment or I WILL REPORT THEM !
It is plain and simple. Either accept Paypal/Billpoint and NOT charge extra (or put the extra in your starting bid or shipping) OR DO NOT ACCEPT PAYPAL/BILLPOINT.
That's it.
These sellers charging fees are out of line. Some of them want 30 cents plus 2-3% of the total !!!
Why should a buyer have to pay extra for a service the seller is using which is supposed to be free to the buyer ???
posted on February 25, 2001 06:42:26 AM
This reminds me of brick and mortars that state our minimum for credit card use is $5, 10, $15.00. Yeah right! Read your contract retailers.. Your minimum is the finance charge. Imagine needed emergency medicine and being denied the buying ability? Can anyone say lawsuit? Report those idiots that infringe on your credit card use! Pay Pal should make it clear and hold sellers responsible for charging as well.
posted on February 25, 2001 07:05:22 AM
My annoyance at PayPal fees are also that they are charged on the total, which includes shipping and insurance. When my customers add the $1.10 insurance, I cannot "pad" that since we all know how much it cost, I have lost money since PayPal gets part of it, allbeit a small part, but it adds up. It is getting harder and harder to make a profit. Buyers want convenience, which I can appreciate, but do not want to pay for it. With the competitive market, they can usually find the item cheaper if they keep looking, so if you do not offer the perks, they will buy from someone else, quite a dilemma. Meredith
posted on February 25, 2001 07:30:50 AM
I offer a refund policy. I have not had to use it often, but if a 3rd party payment service that charges a fee is used, I will deduct the fee from the amount I return.
That came about after I had to eat $8.00 in BillPoint fees on a return. Yes, I was able to resale the item, but that $8.00 given to BP sure whittled down my profit!
posted on February 25, 2001 07:31:00 AM
AS a seller Who doesn't charge for paypal use, I could easily add it to the handling fee, If I charged one! Which I dont!
I'm mad at paypal for forcing me to accept their premier account. Especially with such a small limit of a $100 I also dont like being billed for using ATMs, or minimums on credit card purchases in small stores, (I think it's illegal) etc.
posted on February 25, 2001 07:33:08 AM
WELL THIS TAKES THE CAKE !!!!!!
I just took a glance on ebay at some of these idiots tacking on Paypal fees and low and behold !!! I came across the grand daddy of all these idoits !!!
There is a seller on ebay trying to tack on 12% for Paypal !!!
12% !!!!! CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT !!!!
Not only that, this guy is also tacking on listing fees and final value fees !!!!
THE ABSOLUTE NERVE OF THIS GUY IS AMAZING !!!!
[ edited by cix on Feb 25, 2001 07:34 AM ]
posted on February 25, 2001 07:37:21 AM
Another thought.
If sellers are adding to their handling fees to offset their paypal fees, than every buyer is paying for paypal, and not just buyers who use it!
posted on February 25, 2001 07:39:28 AM
Cix, re guy with 12% etc, does he have any bids?? Any feedback?? I would definitely not bid on these auctions, I don't care if they were one-of-kinds. Meredith
posted on February 25, 2001 07:44:11 AM
Meredith, I agree with the shipping charge fee comment you made earlier. I too am troubled that we pay the % on the shipping fee. I don't mind the use fee but the shipping charges added on to the fee is absurd and false too. Having lunch with that one...
posted on February 25, 2001 08:15:28 AM
Well, See? There's the biggest of this problem. This guy and others like him who are charging ridiculous fees are making it really hard for the rest of us who are just trying to run an honest business, making a profit, while being fair to our buyers.....I don't charge for using these services I do have a standard Handling fee of .50 some shipments 1.00(yes I'm repeating myself from earlier posts) which helps offset some of my labor (I have hired help just for shipping) and supply costs...and before anyone gives me the old "Priority Mail supplies are free" line, yes they are, but bubble wrap, peanuts and other packing supplies aren't. I hope to realize enough from an iten I put on Ebay to make money on it after all my ebay fees and possible fees incurred from using a payment service are paid and wouldn't dream of trying to pass these costs along in any other manner. These things are all taken in to consideration when figuring out my opening bids or BIN's. If I can't come out at least a little ahead if I only get my opening bid, NO MATTER HOW THE BUYER PAYS, well then I must have bumped my head before I listed it!....The same buyer who orders from an online store and pays a fixed shipping amount or handling fee without question, will question my fees, WHY? I have heard this over and over...Not because MY fee is too high but because they have been gouged by some one else selling on Ebay and are tired of it. Obviously, The seller in question here today is one that no one has turned in yet and his bidders are either comfortable with paying him these fees OR (and this is the more likely of the two) They haven't read his terms and are in for quite a shock at auctions end. Once again, The bottom line here is this...At this point it is against the rules to charge for these services, people break this rule, some people care, some people don't. If you are someone who really has strong feeling about this, by all means do what you feel you must to try to rectify the problem. If this involves Turning these sellers in, That is your option. If you just need to vent some where, That is one of the reason these message boards exist....A good day to ALL!!!!
posted on February 25, 2001 10:59:44 AM
A about a week ago there was a thread here about a guy who had a pretty hefty fee if YOU PAID WITH A CHECK.
My first thought was here's a guy that definetly doesn't want checks!
If I came across the 12% PayPal fee, I would think here's a guy that definetly does not want anyone to use PayPal!
There have been many, many threads about how although it is stated in their auctions they do not take PP, sellers still either had people ask for PP or just send the PP payments! One poster had even commented they had it in their auction in bold in about 5 different places, but still had people sending PP!
I really think this seller is trying to make a statement about his stance on PP. Unfortunately, it's obviously a bit too subtle.
posted on February 25, 2001 11:07:27 AM
I just copied this from one of the auctions :
On Feb-20-01 at 17:45:07 PST, seller added the following information:
12% paypal fee does not apply. However the ebay listing fee and sales fee does apply to the final sale of the item.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Feb-24-01 at 07:10:00 PST, seller added the following information:
ONLY SHIPPING AND HANDLING FEES ARE APPLIED TO THE FINAL SALE
for those that say they are doing ME a favor by getting me my money sooner?
HOW?
do you think that I get paypals money in my pocker immediately?
Hell no!
I would get YOUR check deposited in my bank a heck of a lot sooner then I would get paypals check anyway, OR I pay a fee to get it transfered to my bank account in about 4 days.
posted on February 25, 2001 02:23:52 PM
cix: you said, quote: "ANOTHER THING : PAYPAL DOES NOT CHARGE ME ANY EXTRA FOR ELECTRONIC TRANSFER - AND I HAVE A PREMIER ACCOUNT ! SO DON'T GIVE ME THAT !
Here is a copy/paste direct from paypal.
Funds are transferred to your checking account on a nightly basis via the Automated Clearing House system. This means your funds will settle in your checking account in 3-5 business days. A 0.35% real-time fee will be assessed on all funds withdrawn from your account via Auto-Sweep.
Perhaps you can admit error? and say that I was YET AGAIN correct?
I just love people who say "love it or leave it".
It shows real insight...LMAO
Also, I beleive that your CAPS key is stuck ON, as you know what bad netiquet it is to keep in on PURPOSELY!
posted on February 25, 2001 02:43:50 PM"There is a seller on ebay trying to tack on 12% for Paypal !!!" - cix
eBay doesn't allow sellers to charge a buyer's premium. I don't see how a fee that is a certain percentage of the final selling price, added to the buyer's final bill, can be interpreted as anything but a buyer's premium. Regardless of what you call it.
[ edited by triplesnack on Feb 25, 2001 02:44 PM ]
posted on February 25, 2001 06:03:37 PM
Wow there are a lot of mixed views on this topic. I wonder how so many auctions are getting away with charging foe paypal? I for one would not bid on an auction that stated that they wanted to charge for paypal fees. Has anyone tried YahooDirect? Is that free?
posted on February 25, 2001 06:50:26 PM
Exactly. If it was an item I really wanted, at a fair price, I wouldn't think twice about paying a .30 charge for the convenience of using PayPal. Think of the .34 I'm saving just on the postage it would take to get the payment there! That's not even including charges for the MO, if the seller didn't accept checks. All in all, I'd have to agree with Pocono...while PayPal might be helpful in attracting more bidders to my auction, it is over all a service and convenience for the buyer.
As a seller, I do not come out and say that I charge .30 for PayPal usage...I just work it into the starting price, and claim my deduction at tax time! However, I have charged the .30 fee in the past, and I'll tell you why. On 2 seperate occasions I've had bidders PayPal the WRONG total amount for an auction. So, when they PayPal me the remaining balance, I get charged again! Now, why should I have to pay again when the bidder is either ignorant or asleep, and doesn't pay attention and read my emails? This is the only time when I have charged...I felt that in these two cases it was warranted.
"Who's tending the bar? Sniping works up a thirst"
[ edited by koto1 on Feb 25, 2001 06:52 PM ]
posted on February 25, 2001 07:04:36 PM
Pocono, you have made me take a look at the total costs of using PayPal. I will no longer put it in my ads or my EOA notices. I will allow the customer to use it if they insist as a good will thing, but will not encourage or promote it.
