posted on March 3, 2001 05:18:02 AM
For me as a buyer it's annoying if the
auction ad not clearly states such surcharges. If this information is
buried in a linked page in the auction ad
or is only later mentioned in the EOA mail,
that's not fair compared with other sellers
who takes no fees for this service at all
or mentioned this fee !before! bidding.
posted on March 3, 2001 05:56:25 AM
I buy and sale using PayPal, and I would give $.30 to $.60 anytime to use that service. It is cheaper then mailing your payment. And It only takes 1/2 the time to get your Item in the mail. At even $.70 it is a Great Deal. Give the bidders a little more credit for being able to figure out what is the best way for them to pay for and Item. I does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that mailing a money order will cost you $1.10 at the lest, and 10 to 14 days to receive your item. Even $.70 for paypay and 5 to 7 days to receive your item sounds good to me.
posted on March 3, 2001 06:17:14 AM
Auction fans(?)...
Glanced at this board after reading the current article on this subject, and I cannot believe some of the anger...I rarely take the time to write on a board but this time I must! As a long time professional "brick-and-mortar" auction bidder, as well as an ebay fan, I get upset every time a bunch of you start calling for new rules and regulations. AS ONE OF THE PREVIOUS WRITERS SAID, GET OVER IT! Ebay is constantly trying to keep you all happy with more rules and regulations and, in my opinion, is ruining the "free for all" magic of it all (I especially hate the "buy it now" thing).
Auctions are not retail venues and vice versa. If you start putting retail rules and services into auctions, you lose the entire mystique of auctions. Don't you know that "COUNTRY" BRICK-AND-MORTAR AUCTIONEERS HAVE LONG CHARGED FOR ALLOWING BUYER'S TO USE CREDIT CARDS TO PAY. They work on small margins, they can't afford to pay for such retail services as well. That's why we like auctions, because they work on small margins, you have the chance of not paying retail!
They get around the State and the Federal rules by putting in their advertising and publications something like "there is a 10% buyer's premium for cash or check payment, and a 13% buyer's premium for MC/Visa payment". BEFORE THEY STARTED DOING THIS, WE HAD TO CARRY A BUNCH OF CASH TO THE AUCTION OR GO THROUGH A BIG HASSLE GETTING BANK REFERENCES TO THEM SO WE COULD TAKE PURCHASES HOME THE SAME DAY. Everyone was happy when many auctioneers started doing this about 10 years ago. It was just so much more convenient for us, the buyers.
Of course, some real jerk could complain to the State Attorney General or to the FTC that they are really charging for credit card fees and they would probably lose the case! But no one has done it, as far as I know. That's because it's to the buyer's benefit to have that option. And I wish some of you would stop being this type of jerk.
I for one, was also thrilled when Paypal, Payme, etc. arrived on ebay. It allowed me to bid on things that I couldn't afford that month! It allowed me to get my purchases quicker (in time, even, to post a bad feedback if something was wrong)! It allowed me to save big time not having to get money orders! I now hate the sellers who won't take Paypal! THEIR ITEMS are the ones I think twice about bidding on, not those who might want to recoup the cost! I would much rather pay the fees for Paypal than not have the option.
As long as they clearly state it in the description, what the hell is wrong with it? Just adjust your bid accordingly, you morons! IF YOU WANT TO BUY RETAIL, GO TO AMAZON.COM. PLEASE DON'T RUIN EBAY BY CONSTANTLY REQUESTING NEW RULES AND BY BEING LITTLE "ENFORCERS". Don't you realize that all your whining and requests for rules and protection are ruining the whole ebay experience? It's getting less and less like an auction every day.
The more rules you require of sellers, the less you are going to get regular, normal people selling their stuff. You are going to get instead, retailers. It's going to look like Amazon.com. You are not going to find "neat stuff" with the chance to buy cheaply. JUST CUT IT OUT! IF YOU DON'T LIKE AUCTIONS, BUY RETAIL!
posted on March 3, 2001 08:52:31 AM
I don't like PayPal and stoped using their logos in my auctions once they started charging us. I've had buyers want to pay with PayPal and I've told them if they want to pay me THAT bad for their item, then to tack on an extra 50 cents to cover PayPal's chgs OR just mail me a check. The buyers would rather pay the extra 50 cents - 9 times out of ten!
posted on March 3, 2001 02:51:46 PM
Amen to Artappraiser and reid49. If the truth be known most of the cry babies and narcs are small time Ebayers & don't buy or sell much of anything anyway. Trying to make a big deal out of someone being up front and passing on a cost of doing business and turning them in to Safe Harbor is just their way of reaching out and hoping to get some attention for their insecure little minds. Oh well, I guess it keeps them off the streets anyway.
posted on March 3, 2001 02:59:59 PM
I just got the EOA email from a seller. It only NOW tells me that I have to pay an extra 30c to use Paypal.
Am I going to pay it? Nope... I don't appreciate having the TOS changed between bid and pay. I know it is only 30c, but it is the principle of the thing. She could have easily tacked it onto S&H, and I wouldn't have quibbled, or put it in the TOS for her auction and I would have considered it along with my bid.
Yes, PayPal is a convenience for me - it allows me to bid on auctions I wouldn't otherwise be able to (as a foreign bidder). I don't bid on auctions that don't take credit card payments, as it is too expensive to pay by other methods. Having foreign bidders helps drive up the bids on the auctions.
It is a convenience to the seller too... no worries about duff cheques. Instant (or fast, anyway) payment.
posted on March 3, 2001 03:02:33 PM
Amateurs act like amateurs.. then wonder why they aren't successful... PayPal charges accrue to the cost of sales, just as the fees that eBay charges are a cost of doing business... let's stop this amateurish business of charging extra for things which should be part of the true cost of goods sold... and let's stop this nonsensival WARNING in listings that 'IF YOU DON'T PAY I'LL TELL MAMA (or eBay) ON YOU!. Talk about a 'turn-off! Your prospective bidder hasn't even placed a bid and you are threatening him or her! There's lots of room for amateurs.. folks have to learn... but let's treat our prospects the way we want to be treated.. it works!
posted on March 3, 2001 03:20:15 PM
I actually won an auction where the seller tried to charge me an extra 50 cents. I went back to his auction, and noticed the nice paypal logo, and no mention of a fee. I sent a polite e-mail explaining that his TOS did not suggest I had to pay extra (Did not even go down the road of that it was against Ebay's TOS) - Anyway, he wrote back asking if I would use another service, which I did not want to since I have a decent balance in my paypal account. In the end, he took it without the charge, saying that he has not updated all of his auctions to mention the extra fee. I actually will try to avoid these auctions as a buyer, why shop with someone who charges extra, when others don't. I know most people accept this, but as a seller it seems wrong to pass these fees on. I take all sorts of credit cards, and ask that a minimum be used, but it is only a request.
First... One poster claims that consumers are basically "lame" to report incidents of being nickeled and dimed for fees. Its the CONSUMERS money they have EVERY right to complain and SHOULD.
This is a BIG problem at eBay in that SELLERS think they know whats BEST and cheaper for consumers and they are the EXACT same group that yell's when eBay goes down, when eBay increases fee's and try an make every red cent they can.
I have news for them, they are NOT the sellers who act or ARE professionals they are the ones ACTING like the amateurs and consumers should be commended for saying they are sick of it. It is THERE money.
eBay should require full disclosue of ANY/ALL fee's right in the ads. As one lady here noted she gets her EOA email and is told pay .30 extra for paypal. If the seller wants that then DISPLAY it in the auction so she knows.
We are not an amateur business and we vend at sites such as The Home Shopping Net, Onsale and many others. Places 99.9% of eBay sellers never have a hope of getting to sell at because they are CONSTANTLY ONLY worrying about self. PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS does NOT do such things or they are NOT in business long.
No, eBay isnt retail as one poster noted. But then again the MAJORITY of goods listed are NOT auctions. THey start a fixed price usually anywhere from 50% - 100% above the cost of goods (as a business). If you cant sustain a profit due to fee's then DONT exepct the consumer to keep the lame operation afloat or build your costs into your price.
As to ANYONE be it a "in person auction" Amazon, etc. who charges a surcharge for credit card processing its illegal and against the merchant account they have. Thats the way it goes. If a seller does it they risk loosing that merchant account. All a consumer need do is display it to their cardholders bank, that bank will call the card processor. They issue a warning and if it continues they loose that ability to accept credit cards.
These SAME people who YELL because they feel it just to pass these fee's to the consumer are the EXACT same folks who yelled when paypal started charging. Again, thats amateur. Why dont they give their merchandise away for free then?
I'd absolutely blow consumers minds if I posted liquidators pricing to many of these sellers online. Beanie babies at .05 - .10 each, they sell em' at eBay for $5-$10. Whats that for a margin of profit? Yet they wish to take even more from the consumer? Baloney.
We recieve liquidation lists from virtually every surplus/liquidator of any size in the land. DONT sit here and tell consumers or anyone else for that matter that you cant make money. Used books/liquidation books and such are a dime a dozen. I can buy case loads of books at as low as .25-.50 each that I see all over the web selling for $12-$20.
The fact is REAL business can write off costs and losses. Those that cant want to nickel and dime people to cover expenses. You dont see walmart, Kmart, Bon Ton, Kaufmans etc. doing it nor do you see Barnes & Noble, Egghead, Buy.com, Toys r us and others doing it. Just because something says "auction" doesnt mean "free for all". It means sellers take a RISK if they run REAL auctions which means they start bids below cost in the hopes goods are attractive enough to drive profitable bids.
Far far too many sellers feel consumers are fish yet those same sellers are consumers themselves and GOD FORBID Walmart would charge THEM a fee or paypal charge THEM a fee.
At some sites we vend at the commissions paid make eBay look silly at 25% commissions based on FULL sale price (with shipping and handling) + $2 per sale. I can add up every fee eBay, paypal, card processor and everything else charges us and it doesnt come to half that 25%.
Consumers have EVERY right to protect themselves and others and should be commended for doing so. Its not THEM that ruin a sales environment, they bid (most anyway) in good faith. Its the cheesy sellers who act amateur and want every red cent they can take from someones pocket UNLESS its THEIR pocket. Its also why they CANT make ends meet because they DONT act like a professional organization.
The people that DONT commend them for protecting themselves are the constant winers. eBay goes down tey go bats.
eBay has went down for us as well. In fact, we have lost thousands on outages at times. We STILL sell the goods to the consumers who won and we DONT go back yelling at eBay because we REALIZE AS professionals that it can happen. If thats too dangerous to OUR business then we better find a different point of sale. Thats the risk WE TAKE and WE understand it. Do we like it? No.
DO we WISH we could pass every single expense we endure unto someone else? Sure. Money is money. We are NOT so short-sighted however to realize that its the CONSUMER paying us and as the old phrase goes "The consumer is always right". Not that they are. But without them no sales, period.
It should be required at ANY point of sale that IF extra charges exist for ANY service utilized/supported that it gets displayed IN the ad's themselves so consumers can make an informed decision whether to buy/bid or not.
posted on March 3, 2001 08:14:37 PM
Man, someone direct me to these thousand of items at liquidation prices with no profit being made by the seller. For some reason I have been unable to locate them. Maybe they're in never-never land where every big time seller sells everything at or below his cost,and NO costs of doing business are ever passed on to the consumer. What B.S. I really think someone should pinch themselves, they're dreaming again. I totally agree that you shouldn't try to charge someone extra after an auction has ended, just do like most do and add it into your S&H charge and post it right in the auction. If you don't like the price don't bid. Very simple ! The biggest problem with Ebay is you are getting too many of the self-proclaimed big time sellers that are basically ruining the site by dumping so much of the same crap day after day week after week until the market is so glutted with the same junk that people get sick of seeing it. If it weren't for the so-called amateur sellers on Ebay guess what you'd have ? Nothing but another giant Walmart or K-mart which is exactly what some of those pounding their own chest would like to see. Don't give in folks, be up front and charge what you need to for a profit, don't let the self proclaimed Big timers fool ya, they aren't giving anything away,just hiding it better.
posted on March 4, 2001 02:27:55 AM
What makes you thing we are a BIG business? On the contrary we are a small business and I put in 10-14 hours a day at it 6 days a week.
Liquidators are EASY to find. My goodness! Use a brain! It doesnt take a big mind to figure out I can find groups of them on the web or I can call Walmart, Kmart or any other businesses corporate offices and ASK.
Yes, you DO need to be a business or literally no surplus/liquidator wants anything to do with you. Bout it.
We build a decent profit margin into our goods and as far as items such as commissions fee's, listing fee's, card processing fee's even Internet access are tax deductible as a cost of doing business.
We use 1 eBay account, thats all and we list about 250 unique items adding new stuff and removing old virtually every week. Contrary to your self-proclaimed all knowing knowledge on the subject bidders WONT be back if you list the same stuff over & over and ONLY go fixed pricing. We run many $1 start bids with items where the cost of goods is anywhere from $5 - $30. Some we win, some we loose. For the most part we win. Bidders LOVE IT!
Its ever so apparent to me that you dont have a clue what your doing. We dont need to build operating COST into profit. For many items we have a standard markup ensuring profit. For items popular with bidders we start auctions at $1. They come in and we entice them to buy more by being shipping aggressive. We'll ship 1-4 items for a flat $4, at times due to weight we loose another $1-$4 on shipping, so 1 item we basically "gave them" at cost but we hopefully made profit on 3 others. Use your brain, its not hard to do.
We have aided tens of sellers who make mistakes. Some couldnt make a simple decent ad if their lives depended on it. Yet others refuse to even learn how to use a web editor or buy server space someplace to host images. Again, tax deductible as a cost of doing business.
If you dont understand the tools, dont understand how the environment works, dont understand the consumer, dont understand how to make a decent profit margin, have no clue as to how to find merchandise to sell of COURSE your going to struggle constantly.
IT TAKES WORK and LONG HOURS OF IT. We get 400-600 emails each and every day, 7 days a week and every one gets a response and its not a form letter 95% of the time. Consumers appreciate NOT being treated like they are computers. They are people. They appreciate a good solid deal and not being nickeled and dimed to death. They COME BACK when they are treated right, with respect, quite often to buy more. They appreciate policies of TRUST. If someone doesnt like what they bought from us they can return it and we issue a refund INCLUDING their shipping & handling fee. Again, thats a loss. We dont sell anything used. We get perhaps 10 whole returns a month, thats it.
Dont ask consumers to trust a seller who treats them like they ought be supporting the sellers income for every dime and when it comes to their dissatisfaction for any reason like they are a crook. Sure problemed buyers exist but they are anomolies.
I'll give you a statistic. eBay claims avg. pay through is about 68%, ours is 95% and better than 90% at any site we have ever sold at be it Amazon, Yoohoo or elsewhere.
If your trying to tell me that Walmart builds its card processing costs into sales your wrong. For them its tax deductible. If your trying to tell me that Walmart or Sears eats LOSS on returns again your wrong.
I would HIGHLY suggest some business courses as this stuff was taught to me in 10th grade applied mathamatics and what were deemed "business courses". Dont persecute those that succeed because you flounder. You make it sounds like BIG business is the enemy, we are not a BIG business but we are a QUALITY business and thus we can open doors to QUALITY big business that are delighted by our policies towards THEIR customers. eBay is a BIG business and they do not sustain that by 6,000 people selling in an online garage sale. They sustain it by core vendors who succeed week after week. If it were not for those core sellers who attract bidders week after week the independent small sellers who are not businesses would have no sales at all.
This is EXACTLY why 99.9% of sites like BidBay, this one that one never GET anyplace or get significant bidder traffic as they cant attract core vendors. They cant attract them as they have no budget to advertise and drive traffic. eBay spends GOBS of money driving traffic, it just doesnt "poof" appear. The money to drive that core traffic comes from core vendors who succeed week after week whether they are selling beanies, books or automobiles.
Success takes REAL WORK. Today I have so far put in 16 hours, Saturday. From 12 noon through 4 AM in the morning.
You wont see me wining that "gee if I had customers pay all my fee's and do as much work for me as I can make them do then I can put in an 8 hour day like 90% of America".
No such thing as a vacation here. Its probably my biggest regret. The web never stops, our customers expect a response within 24 hours to any emails sent and thats exactly what they get.
Perhaps your jealous of those who succeed, no idea. I dont know you. However from your writing I can tell you that its very apparent you wont succeed as you dont have the tools, have not learned them, of what it takes to succeed in web sales. Dont feel bad. Your not alone, its quite common.
We DID learn from the BIG GUYS. We looked at what they do to succeed and said how can we do it better. With that comes considerable more work and effort. Businesses that succeed on the web take many risks and they look for affiliations that are mutually beneficial to make it happen.
I used to be scared to death to talk to corporate america and try to cut deals as a small podunk business. These sites make more money in an hour they we make in 2 years. But, in reality its no different than selling consumers goods. Instead, we sell corporate entities "us" and we do it by NOT displaying what they can do for us but what we can do for them. Many say "Punt" many dont. We also make it clear WE WORK FOR THEM. IF THEY SUCCEED WE SUCCEED. Be it eBay, Onsale, Amazon or anyplace else.
Many sellers at eBay have a bad attitude towards eBay and consumers as well as other sellers. Not us. When we are doing our work at eBay we are working FOR eBay and FOR eBay customers. Not OUR customers but THEIR customers and as such we MUST put our best foot forward for them. Lo & Behold, success.
If we need eBay support for some reason, Lo & behold its their in literally minutes. eBay has by far the BEST support on the internet.
We compete against HUNDREDS of sellers at eBay in our line of merchandise. THEY view us as competition. We dont view them at all, we concentrate on what WE need to do NOT what they need to do. Some have asked us exactly how we do so well and we are more than willing to tell them and I have outlined it here. The web is NOT an US vs THEM (like retail often is) environment. We have compeitors with fixed pricing nearly HALF of ours for the exact same item but WE get bids and even competitive bidding on those same items. Why? Our ad's are excellent. Our response time is excellent. Our shipping rates are excellent. Our merchandise is guarenteed and we treat consumers with respect thus they COME BACK. We treat them and the point of sale like WE would want to be treated if we were in THEIR shoes. Thats literally all it takes.
Just because you can or cant or others can or cant is NOT the fault of those that do. It means THEY need to learn HOW to succeed not pick at those that do and treat people right.
Do THAT as a business on the web and ALL SORTS of opportunities open up.
posted on March 4, 2001 06:26:43 AM
Some sellers behavior really annoys me: some months ago everyone was announcing:
take paypal, Take Paypal, TAKE PAYPAL......
(of course, Paypal was giving 5 bucks credit for every new member which was recommended by another member)
Some weeks ago they are charging fees from sellers which are forced to take a Premier or Business account. Now all are whining:
paypal sucks, Paypal Sucks, PAYPAL SUCKS.......
And a new wave is coming:
take bidpay, Take Bidpay, TAKE BIDPAY.....
(of course, Bidpay is free for sellers, Paypal and Billpoint both now charges fees to sellers)
What will be the next wave?
I hearty agree with 'whynot': that's far from professional behavior in business. What counts (especially on the net) is the perception how someone is making business: some generosity with customers or 'counting every pea'.
posted on March 4, 2001 08:14:36 AMAs to ANYONE be it a "in person auction" Amazon, etc. who charges a surcharge for credit card processing its illegal and against the merchant account they have.
PayPal is NOT a merchant account. There is no law against charging a surcharge for PayPal --there is an eBay rule against it.
If your trying to tell me that Walmart builds its card processing costs into sales your wrong. For them its tax deductible.
Oh come on. I seriously doubt this one. Walmart would only recover a small fraction of its credit-card processing costs through a tax deduction. Using this thinking, the cost of employees, electricity, water, the buildings, etc would not be built into sales prices either. They are all tax deductible.
((And just for the record, I do NOT charge for PayPal. I DO however, discourage the use of PayPal and empty my account daily. I don't trust that it will be around forever.))
edited in an attempt to correct my lack of ubb skills.
[ edited by vargas on Mar 4, 2001 09:38 AM ]
[ edited by vargas on Mar 4, 2001 09:43 AM ]
posted on March 4, 2001 09:08:55 AM
Hey everyone.. Pay Pal charges more
now to use their service and the
charges are getting passed on to
consumers, Period! This is just
a natural part of the business cycle.
Sellers dont be stupid and say you
are charging to use pay pal just
increase your handling charges.
And those of you who are bored
and have nothing else to do except
report sellers who are passing on
fees they are being charged, need to
get a life. I buy and sell on greedbay.
The market will determine what the
item should go for including the
auction price, shipping/handling and any
fees the buyer charges. Have a great
one.
posted on March 4, 2001 09:11:49 AM
Hey everyone.. Pay Pal charges more
now to use their service and the
charges are getting passed on to
consumers, Period! This is just
a natural part of the business cycle.
Sellers dont be stupid and say you
are charging to use pay pal just
increase your handling charges.
And those of you who are bored
and have nothing else to do except
report sellers who are passing on
fees they are being charged, need to
get a life. I buy and sell on greedbay.
The market will determine what the
item should go for including the
auction price, shipping/handling and any
fees the buyer charges. Have a great
one.
posted on March 4, 2001 09:15:58 AMWhynot said..."As to ANYONE be it a "in person auction" Amazon, etc. who charges a surcharge for credit card processing its illegal and against the merchant account
they have. Thats the way it goes. If a seller does it they risk loosing that merchant
account. All a consumer need do is display it to their cardholders bank, that bank will call the card processor. They issue a warning and if it continues they loose that ability to accept credit cards."
And Whynot just proved why sellers who accept paypal ARE NOT breaking the law or violating a merchant account agreement when they charge the buyer a fee for using paypal. We DO NOT HAVE A MERCHANT ACCOUNT, the merchant account is held by PAYPAL. We do not accept credit cards, we accept paypal's services...we agree to the customer paying us through a third party. The credit card company cannot void our contract with them because we do not have a contract with Visa or MC. Paypal is not a credit card processor...paypal is a merchant who accepts a credit card from the consumer (our buyers)as payment for paypal's "product"....their product is the transfer of money.
As for being able to deduct business expenses...that is in relations to the business' tax liability and has nothing to do with profits. Profits are the difference between the gross sales (including what he charges his customers for shipping and handling) and all expenses(including taxes). Every seller has built his costs into his selling price (including shipping and handling). It doesn't matter if the seller says "I don't charge the customer because it is a cost of doing business"...the bottom line is how much money does the seller have left after he accounts for cost of goods, taxes, ebay fees, shipping materials, postage, paypal fees, ISP, computer costs, utilites, automobile expenses, etc?. That is his profit.
Your all getting tied up in semantics.
Bottom line is...EBAY FORBIDS CREDIT CARD SURCARGES and it is Ebay's ballgame...so we can't charge a surcharge for the customer who uses billpoint, paypal or any other credit card service
Amazing isnt it? First your told one thing then another and sites wonder why buying confidence fluxuates. We aquired our merchant account long before PayPal was alive. It took nearly another year for us to get to process Amex & Discover cards.
Consumers really need to "bone up" on knowledge if they plan on using a credit card online. The first thing to do is call your cardholders banks and ask them point blank "Can I use my credit card to pay for merchandise NOT being sold by the place I am paying for it". Breach of cardholders contracts can demolish credit reports and end up in rather nasty fines and even a loss of credit. Its FAR worse than defaulting on payment as it shows a total lack of abiding to contractual agreement.
Secondly they need realize that the qualifications process to obtain a merchant account is in place to protect the consumer and the consumers bank. Third party services tend to have no such qualifications. A 10 year old with a checking account can be accepting your money. Not a good scene.
Legally when a private seller (not a business) defrauds a consumer you are MUCH more limited in recourse than with a business. Small claims court is about it. Where-as with business there is everything from consumer protection agencies, state AG's offices, local authorities, the FTC etc. and they KEEP records so should they need to pursue something applicable to law they can build a case.
Professional behavior on the net is at a premium as it is. We do get hostile customers and when we query them as to why its always the same story. They were taken by another seller and as such they come in to new transactions bringing an "upper hand" attitude. Once we get past that and down to the reasons we direct and will even assist them in getting problems with other sellers resolved to their satisfaction. They appreciate it and become loyal customers and often friends.
Last week we had a guy who's PC went south, he'd won 58 auctions at eBay. His feedback section TOTALLY demolished. We called him, we call virtually EVERY non-paying bidder or try. Of better than 50 sellers we were the ONLY entity to call him. He apoligized upside and down for the problem. We put him in contact with eBay to get those feedbacks removed. ALOT of events can happen due to the nature of the beast. Its OUR job NOT the consumers to "follow up" before considering issues like negative feedback. Its like sellers think their only responsibility is to sell, collect money and ship! Then they wonder after months how come they are failing. Sellers who succeed use their brains, NEVER alienate ANYONE and take the time ALWAYS to try and do BETTER. For us at eBay that equates to a 95% payout rate when site avg is 68% and a bid rate of 60-70%, so 6-7 items we post get bids out of 10. Our clientel stays quite loyal. We even treat repeat buyers to free stuff now & again. They love it!
vargas:
You would be AMAZED to see what retail does with employee's benefits and such. Certainly 99% of retail has a standard markup and its NOTHING in the way of some markups we see online. It really depends on the type of retail business as well. Obviously say a shoe store tends to have ALOT less traffic than say KMart and KMart is far more diverse in goods. Vertical markets are tough rows to hoe in many a genre of merchandise. Ever wonder how a small shoe store can sustain a mall's rental fee's?
Its MUCH MUCH more advantagous if you want to make money to BE a business than not, unless of course your dealing in illegal goods. Sure its more work but the rewards are greater. Ask your employer sometime how they "stay afloat" revenue wise, I bet you'll get LOTS of surprises. On the web people think I can sell anything and there are millions and millions of buyers. Well thats true. BUT there are also millions of points of sale.
The more vertical the goods, the less the chance at success. Amazon doesnt sell books, videos, music etc. by chance. These are things everyone wants and rather low ticket. Selling Ferrari's is not.
Atop that if you cant offer a SIGNIFICANTLY better deal on whats being offered than retail due to consumer confidence they will buy elsewhere even if it costs a few bucks more. Me selling a book thats $20 in a store for $12 + $5 S/H 99% of prospects will pass.
Also as in "real life" not cyberlife appearances DO count on the net. The more professional your ad's, appearances, conduct, email, services the more loyal buyers STAY and come back over & over. I'll use walmart again as an example. In Sundays flyers everything is portrayed NICE, clean and professional. They dont send a pamphlet with nothing but words. The WEB IS ALL presence and if you dont put the best foot forward consumers will ALWAYS buy where they DO see that.
You are correct in that its NOT illegal for someone to zap a surcharge unto a sale for say paypals fees. PayPal cant do it. You can. Is it the RIGHT thing to do? Thats the question. As one wing-dinger in this thread noted, there are LOTS of duplicate items at eBay. If I am shopping and see a surcharge I will find someplace that doesnt. If they send that info to me AFTER the auctions close I'd say quite frank to them... "That was not displayed in your ad, thus its misrepresented as terms of sale are BEFORE not AFTER UNLESS given a choice to "opt out" ".
In other words, Amazon doesnt have you agree to TOS AFTER you bought! Boy be a CRAZY world if that were the case all over! If its not displayed right up front then a consumer can "opt out". This is probably one of the biggest reasons eBay doesnt allow surcharges. Stuff like that needs to be displayed UP FRONT. You cant have a legal and binding contract when critcal facts are not displayed until AFTER a auction is completed. Thats called misrepresentation and not a small claims court (in the case of private seller) or AG, FTC etc. in the case of businesses would say otherwise. Its like going into the Bon Ton when they advertise sweaters in 5 different colors and when you get to the cashier she says, "Oh! Only the BLUE one is that price, the other 4 colors have a color surcharge of $5". Ridiculous, but I think it clarifies the issue. No, its not illegal to surcharge, yes it is illegal to misrepresent.
Take for example RMA fee's. Alot of places on the net have Restocking fee's. These are displayed RIGHT UP FRONT though they sometimes obscure them at the sites. You buy something, get it, its hosed, you then go to the return authorization area and THEN you see the 15% fee. That really should be displayed when your paying so you know upfront. To me, restock fee's are a sham too.
If something comes back opened it cant be resold as new so exactly WHAT is being restocked? If it comes back sealed in its packaging then the sale gets voided, refund issued and it goes back to active inventory... Again, that doesnt tend to cost 15%!
LITTLEOLME:
Your funny! Here in one sentance your saying consumers should pay all your fees. Why not your car insurance and heating bill too? In the next sentance you say "greedbay". I'd suggest you take Don Lapre's sales/marketing course or perhaps sell firewood. As they say, the nut never falls far from the tree.
Amy:
Thats right. You are not the merchant accepting credit cards so you can pass those fee's along in a non-hidden or hidden fashion (handling, you can even call it accounting processing surcharge). As I noted above I am sure eBay doesnt allow it as it'd be an instant nightmare for them. Consumers getting bent leaving feedback about it, sellers getting bent due to the feedback... Not a pretty scenario. I can think of other reasons but surely it makes an already "diffcult to control and manage" service considerably more difficult to handle. Ethically, nother' issue and it DOES happen all over. Your a 21 year old male driving and your rates of car insurance are higher. You can find instances of it EVERYWHERE! You dont tend to see it too much in sales because competitors readily can take advantage of it. "We dont do it, they do". In REAL business there is a kinda mutually underlying respect in that the businesses all need deal with similar issues even if they hate one anothers guts.
That keeps a balance of sorts so you dont see say GM saying Ford is just crass. You dont see eBay saying "Yoohoo are Yahoo's" or "Amazon's are the web's Pirana or visa versa". In fact the only place in P2P auctions I ever have saw it was Fairmarket and while they tried to be "graceful" about it the MOMENT they said it the "eBay tribesman sellers and buyers went: OH NO YOU DONT!". They alientated much of what they were attempting to attract right from the word go. Almost like a hamburger was doing the marketing. "Hold the auctions, hold the sellers 16 zillion buyers come and get us".
eBay does have a unique site loyalty among sellers and buyers. To us, its simple, they do what they do the BEST, better than any other place on the net. Its not due to the site, many sites "look" more attractive and some even have better features and take less time to manage. Its the staff at eBay and the focus that staff maintains. I find it ABSOLUTELY AMAZING that they can manage such a HUGE service and do it in a professional manner thats just LIGHTYEARS ahead of any point of sale on the net we have ever run across from HSN to uBid, Onsale etc. They are IT, the MODEL. In fact, I'll let you in on a little secret. Since we have had experience at a variety of points of sale we looked TO eBay as the MODEL in making ourselves do better. Take Mr. Pursglove, good example. No matter how POINTED the questions put to him his repsonse is always 101% professional, absolutely AMAZING and its "off the cuff". Its not some statements he's been going over & over for a week. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat for political office. Intelligence, savvy, to the point and always professional.
eBay is FULL of staff like this right from the top to the people in support handling the email. Its AMAZING for a business that size.
Now compare that to say Jeff Bezo's who when pointed questions occur seems to make everything try and be somewhat "humorous" and really never completes the answer.
I'd equate Mr. Pursglove to Mario Cuomo, all the facets of professional brilliance in speaking out. I'd equate Bezo's more towards say George Forman, certainly very intelligent but the portrayal of it doesnt necessarily lend itself to the job at hand.
You are however correct in your statements and also correct in things getting tied up in semantics or loosely ethics.
I'll put another spin on all this. (oh no).
In theory (I do not know) could eBay not reject the usage of paypal on the service if many many sellers engaged in this practice and due to it eBay as a business is harmed?
Lets say you have a B&M and someone walks up to your counter to pay for their item.
Do you tell that buyer, "Hey, if you are paying by credit card that will be 30 cents extra plus 2% of your total" ?
NO WAY !!! You would not do that. That customer would turn right around and leave your store !
That is exactly what they are doing to your auctions !
So I will not waste my time any longer trying to get my point across to you sellers who insist on charging surcharges which are against ebay rules and flat out unbusiness like.
GO AHEAD AND CHARGE YOUR PETTY FEES !!!
I will pick up the customers you turn away with those charges and if I see your auctions, I will have them ended. No Problem.
So follow ebay rules and guidelines and you won't find yourself asking, "Wonder why ebay ended my auctions ?"
posted on March 5, 2001 05:31:18 AM
cix:
You don't get told there's a CC fee at the counter in a retail store, because their items have been priced to accomodate that fee, even if the person pays cash. Like others have said, you're still paying the fee, you just haven't seen the breakdown.
Yes, it is an Ebay rule (not a law) and if we want to sell on Ebay we have to go by their rules.
But this is a silly rule that just drives up prices and s/h fees for everyone, even buyers that pay for money orders and stamps for their purchase. Like the retail counter, smart sellers have priced their item or s/h fee to include their expenses, overhead, and profit.
You seem upset mostly at the fact that someone is "breaking a rule". There are so many people breaking rules everyday, at Ebay, in traffic, etc. It's even against most city ordinances to hang a garage sale sign! Pretty silly rule! It's a waste of energy to get so bent out of shape over things that don't really directly affect you. I know my words aren't going to stop you from spending your time and energy reporting rule-breakers to Ebay, but consider what you gain from this?
If you are also upset that someone passes on the paypal fee to customers, then you really shouldn't ever bid on ANY auctions, because you can't tell who figured the Paypal fee into their start price or s/h fee.
I agree with the folks that posted here that feel that Paypal is more of a convenience to the buyer than the seller. I wish it were structured for the buyer to pay the fee, and I guarantee you more people would use it. I didn't upgrade so can't take CC payments there, and I constantly get offers for buyers to pay an extra $.50 if I'll just let them use paypal! Just wish I could! I just send them to Yahoo's Paydirect.
posted on March 5, 2001 06:19:55 AM
[i]But (speaking from a psychological point of view) for me it's the point how the sellers see the bidders:Is the customer the king?Or: Hey, c'mon, let's see how we can
'make money fast' out of all these dumb
bidders around there.[/i]
For a lot of eBay sellers, it's neither. For some, eBay still is a community of TRADERS, as it was in the beginning, before all of the dutch "auctioneers" selling liquidator crap came along to spoil the community.
posted on March 6, 2001 01:28:26 AM
I reported my seller asking for 30c on top for use of Paypal (no mention in TOS), and Ebay told me it was not allowed. I have sent a copy of the email requesting the additional payment, with headers, to Ebay.
If sellers want bidders, they have to make it easy for them to bid and pay. Using Paypal is one method of doing so. I don't bid on auctions that don't allow CC payments.
If a seller considers this a cost of business and puts it in the opening price, I will then think about whether to bid or not. If I accept the price, I accept the charge.
I do not accept bidding, winning, and THEN being asked for more to be able to pay.
posted on March 6, 2001 01:41:20 PM
Bravo to bcaldwell...basically saying the same thing I was in my earlier post, but from a totally different perspective...which is, please stop asking for more rules and regulations, fellow buyers...if you keep it up, you'll chase all the amateur sellers away and we won't have ebay as we know it anymore. Sometimes I wonder whether anyone else sees the danger of all the professional retailers taking over ebay...it gives me hope to see someone else sees the problem, too! The ONLY rule on this matter is that you can't add charges after the fact, that all charges should be posted in the description.
I think you need to read the AW Community Guidelines regarding making such statements about another AW poster.
ALL fees should either be passed along to the customer or absorbed by your profit margin. Basic Economics 101.
The question is how to pass along those fees.
As it stand right now, ebay does not allow PayPal & BillPoint fees to be directly passed along to customers in the form of a listed, stated direct fee.
Charge a handling fee, raise the opening bid price, do whatever you want to cover all the costs you think are appropriate. This is the smart thing to do whether you are a small auction seller, a B&M or Microsoft.
BUT, if you list a charge for PayPal or BillPoint directly in your auction TOS, or indirectly after the fact in your EOA, regardless of whether or not you think it's acceptable, you will be violating ebay's rules on this.
Until ebay is willing to change the rules on this, everyone must decide for themselves whether to live within their rules or violate them.
posted on March 9, 2001 05:54:30 AM
At first, I didn't think it was right to charge separately for Paypal or Billpoint, either.
But, when you tack in into the opening bid, Ebay gets a cut of that price (so, of course, you have to add in Ebays cut of that.)No dud, huh?
Now, for those who stay with Auctionwatch, how many will list those fees in the auction instead of on the bottom line for Ebay to get a cut? How much percentage wise will ebay clear off the raised prices required to cover this, wonder?
posted on March 9, 2001 12:59:14 PM
I concur with starsrus5. cix seems to be your typical incessant whiner who could never possibly be wrong nor see any other side of an issue and LOVES to hear him/herself talk!!!
