posted on March 5, 2001 09:23:53 PM new
LMAF Now I have heard everything, Sm Med or Large??? If You buy an Item and it didn't fit Or well, No refunds, Auction sellers are not Macy's department store, there should never be any returnes because it didn't Fit Right!!! it is the chance the bidder takes. In the Future you might want to add, all cloths have been inspected for tears and rips Including holes and all sales are final.
Good Luck
posted on March 5, 2001 09:35:10 PM new
coffeemug~ That wasn't really the problem. She had emailed me when she received it and basically said everything was fine.
Then, after she had it for almost 2 weeks and brought it to the cleaners & back, she found "2 tiny holes" and THEN wanted a refund.
My auctions DO state "all sales final" and she even noted that in her email to me but said I had misrepresented the item!
Yeah, I misrepresented the item by not seeing 2 holes that neither myself, her, or her drycleaners ever saw!
posted on March 5, 2001 09:56:54 PM new
I would neg her with this ;
BUYER HAD MOTH INFESTATION IN CLOSET AND DAMAGED ITEM
As far as nuts like this one strictly being in the clothing categories ? NO WAY !
They are all over ebay. I do not even sell clothes and I get these types all the time. Along with several deadbeats. So NO it is not confined to the clothing category (Although I do wish it was).
posted on March 6, 2001 08:09:55 AM new
Well, I just left her the above NEG. And it was very much deserved.
I was expecting her to NEG me, but when it actually happened and I saw my feedback with her neg, my stomach just went into knots. I absolutely hate the feeling of getting a neg. Why can't people just be honest? They're always trying to get something for nothing. It's sickening.
posted on March 6, 2001 08:24:27 AM new
Sorry to hear that she nailed you.
When you suggested that she take the item back to the cleaners she didn't even respond to that? Makes me wonder if it was even to the cleaners to begin with.
In situations like this it may be just a case of buyer's remorse and there may not even be any holes. And if you had caved in and let her send it back she would have to poke holes in before sending it to you. Who knows what really goes on behind the scenes?
Luckily most bidders are excellent to deal with and even when there is a problem I find that most times it can be resolved very quickly.
posted on March 6, 2001 09:08:16 AM new
Hi Shaani ~ No, she did not respond to ANYTHING I said about the cleaners. She totally ignored anything about the cleaners.
So I too, wonder if it was ever brought to the clearers.
I just hope her new NEG will warn other sellers to beware of how she operates.
posted on March 6, 2001 09:17:09 AM new
I would reply:
Bidder e-mailed - item great! Then 30 days later decided she did not like it. Cannot refund after washing.
I would put something like that. Concise, to the point, no emotion. I would also neg the following:
SELLERS BEWARE - BIDDER HAPPY, THEN 30 DAYS LATER, after washing - WANTED REFUND-
Implication being that this is a buy and wear bidder who may return your sale too so you may not want to sell to them. Also lets the buyer know their behavior is not acceptable.
Let us know what you end up doing.
We generally state Satisfaction Guaranteed. We will refund all returns as long as you contact us within 3 days of receipt of the item. Item must match original pics for wear.
*********
If you have a return policy like the above, the 30 days would never work and the match for wear would not work as she had it cleaned.
************
And then there are wackos out there that will neg you anyway! So leave a factual one for her and move on.
posted on March 6, 2001 12:55:12 PM new
YPayRetail:
I left her this neg:
DEMANDED REFUND/she had it for 2+weeks&drycleaned THEN CLAIMED damaged! BEWARE
My return policy is "ALL SALES FINAL". And she knew this, because she noted that in an email she wrote me.
Bottom line is, she had no right to complain about the item after all that time she had the suit and brought it to the cleaners, etc. Especially when her initial email to me said the suit was fine.
She has not yet responded to her NEG but when she does I will post a follow up response on there as well.
posted on March 6, 2001 03:21:47 PM new
I'm not sure what kind of suit it was, but maybe she needed a suit for a single "fancy" occasion. She "bought" yours, wore it the one time, and wanted to return it for a "refund". When maybe the real deal is that she wanted to borrow it for free for awhile.
Maybe she had to go on a job interview, or to a wedding, or fancy party? People do this in the retail brick and mortar world too.
The suit was an office-type business suit. I've never had anyone who wanted to return something after they wore it, so that never even crossed my mind... but I suppose it's possible with this lady. Nothing would surprise me anymore!
She has also not yet responded to her NEG... wonder if she will? I actually hope she does so I can post a follow-up....
posted on March 7, 2001 12:00:47 PM new
sorry, EG, at least this one didn't make you nuts for two months though! LOL!
just curious ~ did you ever file the "feedback extortion" complaint with eBay on this bidder? I was hoping she would be naru'ed before she could bite you!
Have a Great Day!
posted on March 7, 2001 03:26:32 PM new
Hi chepistar - No, I didn't file a feedback extortion complaint about this lady - I didn't think ebay would consider this feedback extortion. I've mailed them before when I thought it was "feedback extortion" but they've always told me it wasn't. Do you really think this was feedback extortion? I guess it couldn't hurt to let SafeHarbor know.. it's just always discouraging when they're ALWAYS on the buyer's side...
posted on March 7, 2001 04:05:17 PM new
Please help me to understand the feedback extortion issue. I believe that this buyer is clearly in the wrong. However, regardless of how wrong, goofy, etc. she is, isn't she entitled to leave feedback (fair or not) as long as it is not obscene or offensive to most people. Her reminding you that she can leave a negative can be taken two ways. From your perspective, it's obviously extortion....she's trying to blackmail you into an undeserved refund. However, from her perspective, she may honestly feel that she is right. If that's the case she's just saying, that her feedback will reflect her opinion.
Ninety-nine percent of my transactions on ebay have been successful. However, I have received several misrepresented items (CLEARLY MISREPRESENTED...not just my opinion). I saved the dealer's jpg files to show that what I received did not indicate any problems with the items. Dealers did not want to refund. I reminded them of the options open to me, including leaving "appropriate" feedback. They did finally refund. Now, I know that I was correct (I took the items to a professional and sent copies of the jpg files. They confirmed my opinion that item descriptions and photos were clearly deceptive and that flaws were major).
From your perspective, was this feedback extortion? From my perspective, I was just letting them know the consequences of failing to act in a fair and honest manner (I also had some more significant measures in mind).
Just a thought (and I DO think that you shouldn't have to refund after 2 weeks and a dry cleaning). I am sorry about your neg.
I buy tons of items on ebay. I always check a dealer's feedback...for both negatives/neutrals given and received (Vrane has a great tool). I take into consideration who gave the feedback...I check out the feedback of the person who left the feedback and the feedback that they leave for others (perhaps a newbie or a nasty individual that seems to be generally hateful to lots of dealers). I also take into consideration how the dealer handled the neg. Did they leave a really nasty, ignorant sounding neg in return? I am much more favorably impressed with a dealer who responds in feedback with just the facts, e.g. "30 days, no payment, no response to email".
Yes, it's a lot of trouble. However, I won't deal with nasty people...and by being careful of my trading partners I avoid problems.
If an individual has only a few negs vs. many outstanding, positive feedbacks,
if responses were handled well, etc., I will ignore the neg(s) and bid. However, if they have only one neg and have made a really nasty response, I will pass them by!
posted on March 7, 2001 04:28:37 PM newExecutive Girl
I'm going to give you another view on this situation which may or may not help you out in the future, but here goes:
Is there any chance, even the slightest, most microscopic one, that you could have overlooked the two "pin holes" in the skirt before you sold the suit?
My guess is that you could have missed them, given that you are an obviously busy person (especially since you're selling clothes on eBay and probably have something of a personal life, too) and also given that the holes are probably really tiny (especially if they were made by one of those store security tags).
Taking that possibility into consideration, no matter how slight it is, what if this customer actually received the skirt with holes in it, but like you (hypothetically), didn't really notice the holes either, at least not until she was looking the skirt over rather closely a couple of weeks later with her sister?
In other words, what if the customer wasn't lying, but rather, telling the truth as she saw it, and hoping for a positive response from a reputable eBay seller?
In fact, she didn't first ask for a return or refund; she asked for your advice on what to do.
There are probably a lot of customers who would do the same thing that this lady did.
I wish I'd read your post before you decided on how to respond. I would have recommended you ask how she would like to proceed.
In doing some research on customer service statistics, you'll find that almost all disappointed customers, when asked how they would like a situation resolved, will ask for far less than you were willing to give them.
In other words, you're really not taking a risk by asking the question. You're preserving your status as a reputable seller. And what do you really have to lose? You say the suit was great and "a steal"; even if she said she wanted to return it, wouldn't you be able to sell it again (tiny flaw withstanding) for a good price? And wouldn't it be great to leave that customer singing your praises to other potentional customers, or even buying from you again and again because she knows how well you treated her the first time?
Yes, it would cost you some money to refund her, after all the work you put into listing it, etc., but I dare say your feedback, your reputation and your business are far more valuable than that one transaction.
Don't discount or downplay the business that word-of-mouth brings you, or more importantly takes from you. Another statistic says that disappointed customers will tell an average of 13 people about the service they received from you, but that happy customers will only tell an average of 4 people.
I used to train customer service staff for some very large mail order companies. I often told how Nordstrom (the large department store chain) would take anything back, even if you didn't buy it there. There is a story that one customer brought in a Goodyear tire and said she wanted a refund. Does Nordstrom sell Goodyear tires? No. But they refunded the customer. What did it get Nordstrom? Well, I know one thing -- I sure sent them a lot of customers over the years just by telling that story. Who wouldn't shop with a store that treated people so well?
On the flip side, imagine this skirt customer going around and badmouthing you to her friends, but in the bigger picture, badmouthing eBay in general. You lose, but other eBay sellers lose, too. (Remember, this is hypothetical -- I'm not blaming you for turning people away from eBay.)
I guess what I'm preaching here is give the customer the benefit of the doubt.
Ask how they would like the situation resolved before becoming defensive and militantly reviewing return policies, etc. After all, you have nothing to be defensive about, right? You run a clean, honest and successful business, and that kind of seller attracts that kind of buyer.
You reap what you sew. No kidding.
rarebourbon
edited HTML mistakes & typo
[ edited by rarebourbon on Mar 7, 2001 04:30 PM ]
[ edited by rarebourbon on Mar 7, 2001 04:33 PM ]
posted on March 7, 2001 05:11:15 PM newglasshat: I did not say that I thought this was definitely feedback extortion. I was asking someone else if they actually thought it was. I, too, am unclear of what is actually "feedback extortion"... which is why I never reported this lady to SafeHarbor.
rarebourbon: I have emails from this bidder stating the suit was fine WHEN SHE RECEIVED IT - and then 2 weeks later she emails me telling me after it was brought to the cleaners she found 2 "tiny" holes (her words) near the kickpleat. I feel after she's had it so long is it no longer my responsibility. Actually, I've seen most sellers that have a return policy state they must be notified within 3-5 days at the most. I have a NO RETURN policy and she didn't tell me about this "flaw" until 10 days later. I can hardly be to blame for that.
Is there any chance, even the slightest, most microscopic one, that you could have overlooked the two "pin holes" in the skirt before you sold the suit?
Since I sell basically only clothing, I've learned to inspect items VERY carefully. I inspect them before taking pictures, when listing and describing them in great detail, and before packaging them up to be shipped.
Sure, it's a "possibility" - I am only human and I do make mistakes like anyone else. And like I told this bidder - had she let me know when she received it, I would have GLADLY refunded her money. HOWEVER - the buyer should look over all items before (1)wearing (2) emailing the seller saying all is fine (3) bringing item to the cleaners. I do not know that SHE did not do something to the suit. I do not know that the CLEANERS did not do something to the suit.
Taking that possibility into consideration, no matter how slight it is, what if this customer actually received the skirt with holes in it, but like you (hypothetically), didn't really notice the holes either, at least not until she was looking the skirt over rather closely a couple of weeks later with her sister?
So you're telling me that something I sold to a customer last year - they should be able to email me about it now, saying that they "just" had the time to closely look over the item and found a flaw in it and that I should let them return it? Where do you put the limit?
In fact, she didn't first ask for a return or refund; she asked for your advice on what to do.
Her negative feedback to me said I "DENIED REFUND". So it was apparent what she wanted to begin with was a refund.
There are probably a lot of customers who would do the same thing that this lady did.
And a lot more of sellers would have done what I did. To ask for a refund after possibly wearing, having it for 2 weeks and after a trip to the cleaners is outrageous.
even if she said she wanted to return it, wouldn't you be able to sell it again (tiny flaw withstanding) for a good price?
Why should I have to go through all that work again? What if she PUT holes in the suit? What if her cleaners made the holes in the suit? Then my answer would be NO, I would not turn around and sell it again. I do not sell damaged merchandise.
And wouldn't it be great to leave that customer singing your praises to other potentional customers, or even buying from you again and again because she knows how well you treated her the first time?
Do you honestly think that after she pulled this I would WANT her to bid on more of my merchandise? Definitely not.
buying from you again and again because she knows how well you treated her the first time?
You mean she'd want to buy from me over and over again becuase I'm an easy target... Such as.. "hey! I'll buy from her again, wear the item, and then send it back again and get a refund!"
I often told how Nordstrom (the large department store chain) would take anything back, even if you didn't buy it there. There is a story that one customer brought in a Goodyear tire and said she wanted a refund. Does Nordstrom sell Goodyear tires? No. But they refunded the customer. What did it get Nordstrom? Well, I know one thing -- I sure sent them a lot of customers over the years just by telling that story. Who wouldn't shop with a store that treated people so well?
You are comparing a very large, well-known company to a single person selling on Ebay. They can afford to take back anything and everything. I cannot. My "all sales final" policy is clearly stated in my auction descriptions. However, when I make a mistake I will correct it. But like I said, there has to be a time limit to make your claims.
I guess what I'm preaching here is give the customer the benefit of the doubt.
What about the seller?????? Are you a seller on ebay or just a buyer? HAD THIS LADY EMAILED ME WHEN SHE RECEIVED IT - or even within a few days - I would have GLADLY refunded her money. THAT would have been the "BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT". Not 2 weeks later after who knows what it went through. So yes, I give ALL my customers the benefit of the doubt.
Ask how they would like the situation resolved before becoming defensive and militantly reviewing return policies, etc. After all, you have nothing to be defensive about, right? You run a clean, honest and successful business, and that kind of seller attracts that kind of buyer.
I was kind, curteous, and to the point with this lady right from the start. Why should I ask her what she wants (as in a refund) when I know that she is not entitled to one? I'm not going to play games with her or get her hopes up - I tell it like it is. I believe in being honest and upfront.
posted on March 7, 2001 05:39:41 PM newI am just going to leave negative feedback. Successful businesses understamd that the customer is always right.
from the tone of this, I'm not sure if it's would be considered "extortion" or just an attitude ~ it really depends on what else was written.
"successful businesses" also know where to draw the line. I'm with you on this one, EG.
I've refunded my share, but, more to the point, I have also had bidders contact me stating that something was "amiss"(sp?). How surprising, when I said I would refund their money upon receipt of the item, the item was never sent back. That has happened almost a dozen times.
I choose to give customers the benefit of the doubt(I have some of the best bidders on eBay!!!), however, I also choose to keep my eyes open for the scammers.
"Burn me twice, shame on me."
JMHO, for those with a persecution problem ~ * ~ No offense intended ~ * ~
edited becawz uf spelin
[ edited by chepistar on Mar 7, 2001 05:41 PM ]
posted on March 7, 2001 06:30:13 PM new
Rarebourbon -- I couldn't have said it better myself (and was just about to.)
Who cares if this woman is right, wrong or if it took her one week, or two or three weeks to ask for a refund?
I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the suit, that it just didn't fit, but so what?
Is it really worth it not to refund her when you look at the big picture?
I would have taken the suit back, relisted it and probably sold it for more!
I had a similar argument with a customer when I started out. I finally 'won' but what did I get? Days of nasty emails back and forth, the stress of waiting for negative feedback....after it was all over I realized it would have been much easier just to make the customer happy.
99% of my customers are happy. It's worth it to me to make the other 1% happy by letting them return their purchase for whatever reason.
I know this is not the popular response on this thread or even on these boards, but I couldn't imagine doing business any other way.
posted on March 7, 2001 06:39:01 PM new
I agree with ziggydog. There was no victory here. Both parties are upset and likely to remember this bad experience for a long time. All of this over what was likely a very small dollar amount. Sometimes it's better to not be so inflexible on both sides.
posted on March 7, 2001 06:45:00 PM new
Any buyer with any kind of common sense will look an item over as soon as they get it - or at least within a day or two.
Then, to email the seller, tell them they tried it on, the item is fine, and then 2 weeks later "find" a flaw in it after it was drycleaned, is ridiculous.
I would be out of my mind to do that to another seller.
posted on March 7, 2001 07:06:15 PM newZiggydog:... You say 99% of your customers are happy, and you refund them whenever they want for basically whatever reason.
99.96% of my customers are happy and I only refund when I am wrong, when I make a mistake in my listing.
So if over 99% of my customers are happy and I am NOT losing money refunding for any reason my customers come up with, why should I start?
There's something to be said for not letting people walk all over you. The customer is NOT always right. Why let them get away with things when they are outright WRONG, or trying to pull a fast one on you? I just don't get it why some sellers allow that.
posted on March 7, 2001 07:09:12 PM new
Well this makes me ask "When is the transaction considered over with?"
I always thought that once a buyer e-mails me saying that they are happy I should consider the transaction closed.
I once left positive feedback on a plate and later I noticed a hairline crack. I didn't contact the seller as I felt it was my mistake not to examine it carefully when I got it.
One lady brought an expensive art print back to our shop one year after buying it as she changed her decor and wanted to choose another one. Basically she was asking for "free art" from now on. We had to say no. Some have tried to return clothing after wearing it. Some try to return jewelry after breaking up with their loved one. Sometimes you just have to say no. Are we losing good customers? No, we can tell the good ones from the bad ones.
posted on March 7, 2001 07:41:30 PM new
As far as renting a suit for one occasion and returning it, come on, be serious. Why would I take a chance on a suit, wait several days for delivery on the off chance that MAYBE you will forget the all sales final rule. I can go to Marshalls and they will refund no questions asked.
I have a hard time seeing what kind of "scam" they are pulling. But then again, if I saw my customers as thieves, I can concoct all kinds of scenarios.
Also note, there is no such thing as "All Sales Final" in retail. eBay is retail. Maybe wholesale prices, but retail customers. And there is no such thing as "All Sales Final" in retail.
I always look at "difficult" customers this way- maybe I don't want their business, but even the most disagreeable SOB has friends and relatives. I want THEIR business. And I know that I have little chance of getting it if I close them down.
Also, we're being awful cavalier about not wanting people's business, aren't we? Sellers don't want hassles with postage. They don't want Paypal customers. They don't want customers who return. They don't want ones who want sellers to change the TOS, before, during, or after the auction. They don't want foreign bidders? Ask yourselves, what's left?
Customer service is EASSSSSSY for 99% of buyers. It's the one percent where it's not which make or break your business.
