posted on March 6, 2001 02:01:07 PM new
'Got to agree with CaptK on this one. Sniping eliminates bidding wars. 'Had an auction bid up last week. Two bidders placed over 10 bids, and upped the final value from $15 to $50.
posted on March 6, 2001 04:00:02 PM new
Capt says:
"Well, no, I don't have stats to *prove* that most early proxy bidders don't hang around for the very end of the auction, but that has been my experience over the years (and you don't have stats to prove otherwise either)..but certainly common sense would indicate that the REASON they choose to "bid
and run" is just for that reason."
............................................
Well Capt, it appears I have more hands on experience in eBay buying & selling than you do, so I can only offer up that in *my* experience early "bid & run" proxy bidders are for the most part, bargain hunters, and that's why they bid & run.
I have numerous early bidders that either drop a big whopper of a proxy [and are prepared to top it off if need be], and early proxy bidders that are also there at the end if their schedule allows them to be. If they are, they attempt to defend the title, if not, they let their proxy ride.
I forgot about the types of items you sell, when you do sell, so your mileage may indeed vary?
Twinsoft
Sniping eliminates bidding wars
Really? I've never noticed that? I've had people bid back & forth like wild fools all week long, and then get outsniped in the final moments by a new player. Just that thing happened today on an auction of mine.
Do I wish ALL buyers got in bidding wars from the moment my auctions hit the listing pages, well hells bells YES. Do I complain when a last hour/minute/second proxy bidder comes in at the end & stomps the b'jesus out of an early proxy bidder? Not likely.
posted on March 6, 2001 08:42:09 PM new
Well, if we're comparing credentials ... I've sold sniping software at eBay for three years and have observed bidding habits (esp. sniping) pretty carefully. My ad for my software was recommended by AuctionBytes as a sniping tutorial.
>>I've had people bid back & forth like wild fools all week long, and then get outsniped in the final moments by a new player.<<
If two fools bid up the value of the item, and are then outbid by a sniper, that is not evidence that sniping increases the final value of the item. Sniping does two things: (1) increases the chance of a bidder's success, and (2) keeps the final value of the item down.
Reddeer, this isn't a matter of your upbeat outlook on life. Sniping is a proven bidding technique.
posted on March 6, 2001 09:07:45 PM newSniping does two things: (1) increases the chance of a bidder's success, and (2) keeps the final value of the item down.
Yes, I'm aware of your software. Only wimps use software to snipe.
Ok, let's start with #1.
"It increases the chance of a bidder's success"
Really, how so? The only way that early proxy bidders get outbid [beat] by a sniper, is if the sniper bids a higher amount, correct?
Now, if you were to say something along the lines of:
"It increases the chance of getting the item at a lower $ amount, than if the sniper had bid early & possibly caused a bidding war"
Then that would be more accurate.
As far as:
"keeps the final value of the item down"
Really, how so?
You & Capt love to make assumptions based on the areas you follow on eBay, which have nothing to do with the areas I follow, as a buyer or seller.
There are numerous reasons for bidding early, just as there are numerous reasons for bidding late, and both methods can be very successful, depending on the item, and a bazilion other factors.
It's impossible to make blanket statements like you have above, & unless eBay was to implement AE, there's really no stats to back any of your statements up.
Other sites have tried AE, and from what I've seen in the areas I sell in, the prices are no better, and often times much lower, than the same items sold on eBay, without AE.
Quite frankly, I find AE auctions VERY boooooooring.
IMO most buyers like the excitement of the final minutes of the auctions, and I say give the buyers what they want.
It's nice to know that there's at least one thing eBay & I can agree on.
When I first found eBay, I already had experience bidding in live fixed ending time auctions, so I knew all about sniping. One of the first things I did was buy sniping software.
After using it a few times, you know what I found out? If you want something done right, you've got to do it yourself. An added benefit... it's a lot more fun that way, too.
posted on March 6, 2001 11:54:44 PM new
Wimps, eh? I'm sure the 5,000 or so users of my program will get a chuckle out of that.
Reddeer, it's rare that we agree, though I respect your opinions and have learned much from your posts. But you are so far off the mark this time, I can only throw up my hands in exasperation.
Let me throw you a bone, though. Sniping succeeds only because newbie bidders are unaware of sniping and other effective bidding techniques.
>>"It increases the chance of a bidder's success." Really, how so? The only way that early proxy bidders get outbid [beat] by a sniper, is if the sniper bids a higher amount, correct?<<
One mistake that newbies commonly make is NOT BIDDING THEIR MAXIMUM AMOUNT. The success of sniping depends on the other bidder making just such a mistake. 'Happens all the time.
What Is a Sniper? The single biggest mistake that new users make is to place a maximum bid just barely high enough to become the high bid, but no higher. They would be willing to go higher if necessary, but they figure, why bother? If somebody outbids them, they can always just increase their bid, right?
WRONG!!!
Believe it or not, there are bidders out there who know this is how you think! Well, not you in particular [don't get paranoid], but they know that many bidders don't really bid their "maximum" amount up front, and they take advantage of this fact by waiting until literally the last second before making their bid. These bidders are affectionately referred to as "snipers," and they know that if they give other users the opportunity to outbid them, that's exactly what other bidders [just like you!] will do. Unlike a "real" auction, where the auctioneer has to start saying "going, going, gone" anytime a new bid is placed, eBay auctions have a fixed ending time and when the auction is over, it is over, even if a bid is placed one second before the end. Snipers use this fact to their advantage and count down the seconds to place their bid as close to the ending time as possible. Sometimes it's less than one minute before the end. Sometimes it's less than ten seconds! There's nothing illegal about bidding this way, and most snipers don't do it to be malicious -- they simply know how many users bid and take advantage of that knowledge to get the best deal possible. But it can nevertheless be extremely frustrating and disheartening to think that you have won an item, only to see it "snatched" away with no time left to respond.
What Can I Do About Snipers? There are three basic strategies for dealing with snipers. First [and this seems to be the most popular for some reason], you can simply complain about it. Unfortunately, while this may make you feel better, it really doesn't help. Second, you can try and become a sniper yourself. This is great for people that have the time to watch an auction down to the last second and who love the adrenaline rush of trying to enter a bid at the last possible moment. Unfortunately, not everybody has the time or the temperament for this, and many snipers have lost out on an item when their computer or Internet Provider [or eBay™, for that matter] crashed at an inopportune moment. Plus, sniping will make eBay™ less fun for everybody else, and unless you really feel the need to win at any cost, the old "Golden Rule" applies as much to eBay™ as it does to every other aspect of life.
The third way to deal with snipers, and the way I personally recommend, is to simply let the eBay™ proxy system work for you. When you see an item you are interested in, think long and hard about how much you really would be willing to pay for that item. Not how much you hope to pay for it, but how much you would pay for it. Then, just to be safe, add a few more dollars to that amount and enter it as your maximum bid. If you do this, one of two things will happen -- either you will win the item, or you will be outbid. If you win, then you got a nice item at an amount you are willing to pay. And if you lose, then at least you know that whoever won was willing to pay more than you were [and probably more than the item is actually worth!]
One important note about snipers. There are some snipers who believe that winning is the most important thing, regardless of how much they end up having to pay for an item. They live for the adrenaline rush, and nothing makes them happier than to snatch an item away from a high bidder at the last second, just for the pleasure of it. These particular snipers [and fortunately they are still a rare breed] will actually bid far more than they actually want to pay for the item, in order to "guarantee" their victory. This is certainly not immoral or against the rules, as long as they actually follow through on their bids. But they bid this way knowing that most bidders don't enter high maximums, and that they will probably never have to really pay the full amount of their maximum bids. Unfortunately, there's really nothing that can be done to defend yourself from this type of sniper, since they purposely make bids that no sane person would ever consider really paying for the item in question, on the assumption that they won't actually have to pay that much. The only thing you can do is to place a larger than average maximum bid of your own up front, and at least take comfort in knowing that the sniper ended up paying far too much for the thrill of beating you. If this happens enough times, maybe they'll stop doing it....
Remember that no matter how much a sniper's maximum bid is, the actual bid will only be one bid increment above your maximum bid. Many new users think that snipers have mystical powers and can somehow guess what the current high bidder's maximum is. Well, some snipers are good at guessing, which is why I always recommend that you pad your bid by a few dollars just in case [Again, it's also a good idea never to bid round numbers, since these are the easiest to guess. Instead of bidding $75, try bidding $77.77]. In most cases, though, the sniper is just bidding a high amount which they assume will outbid any reasonable bidder. The proxy system then simply places a bid for them one bid increment above your maximum.
Regards,
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
Yes, sniping can indeed be an effective bidding technique when used on wet behind the ear new users. That much I'll agree on.
But even well informed new users can make exceptions to that rule.
Here's a classic example.
Yesterday I had an item go from $353 -$428 in the last 5 minutes of the auction. The high bidder just registered on Monday, Feb 19 2001 & took out the two earlier proxy bidders [who were both present & bidding at the end] with a 4 second snipe.
Gotta luve that! A new user who took the time to find out how fixed time auctions on eBay worked, and was able to pull off a 4 second snipe, which was most likely accomplished without sniping software.
He did get rather confused after the auction had ended because I had sent my EOA congrats email before eBay had sent theirs. At first he didn't think he had even won.
posted on March 7, 2001 07:45:16 AM new
Wake up to the real world! I have been to hundreds of live auctions where a hundredth of a second before the "SOLD" word is said, I little hand from the back row bids for the first time to close out the other bidders!
I love the snipe! I can tell you as a seller it ADDS value to my hot items. HOW can it de-value when it is the last bid that brings up the sale price?? With out a snipe bid you would have a lower sold price.
Using snipe methods of buying is also cool! Sellers, if you screw up in how you list you item you pay the price by a last second snipe. Thats life!
I am a seller and buyer that supports snipe bidding, it adds ZEST to the game. Cry babies need to go play miniature golf (by themselves).
posted on March 7, 2001 04:47:16 PM new
Proxy bidding has never worked out for me.
Back before I discovered vrane and esnipe, I was forced to leave proxy bids for items I wanted if I knew I wasn't going to be around to snipe. My proxy bid was always on the high end of reasonable, but nine out of ten times, I was outbid.
It made no difference if it was a cheap, common item -- it almost seemed like the mere fact that someone had bothered to place a bid on it made it instantly desirable to somebody else.
I suppose I could just take a "c'est la vie" attitude towards it all and console myself with the knowledge that I'd placed my highest possible bid, and that the high bidder paid too much ...
... or I could just snipe! Which works out a *whole* lot better.
My point being, I guess, that proxy bidding only works that idealized, emotionless "Vulcan eBay" world that a previous poster mentioned.
[ edited by RachelX on Mar 7, 2001 04:50 PM ]
posted on March 7, 2001 05:26:09 PM new
Reddeer, my sniping software is just a reminder utility. It does not place a bid. It just launches the browser to the auction page a few minutes before the auction ends. It has a few other features. No big deal. One of my competitors called it a "fancy egg timer" which is probably a good description. So you'll be glad to know my program preserves the last-second adrenaline rush of swiping the coveted widget from the previously-high bidder.
If you're going to snipe, get yourself a freeware time synchronization utility like AtomTime95 or D4Time so your clock is accurate.
Just so no one accuses me of self-promotion, here's a free copy for my AW pals. I'll leave the file there for a few days.
Racemail, sellers who complain about sniping rightly observe that had the same bid been placed earlier in the auction, the final value might have been higher. When your bid is sitting out there for everyone to see, it gives other bidders time to rethink their maximum, and often they decide they are willing to pay more. Sniping doesn't give other bidders that advantage.
Obviously, any bid received is a good bid, but one of the principles and advantages behind sniping is that it prevents other bidders from responding. In other words, one snipe bid could conceivably prevent three other bids. I believe I posted above that there's no way to predict what would have happened under other circumstances, but no question that sniping is a popular bidding technique, and probably with good reason.
Sniping is a proven bidding technique.
]: