posted on March 15, 2001 03:23:15 PM new
Well the person that we have been talking about (Mr $14 S&H) had one auction that said he was charging more for shipping and handeling because he needed to make profit from it. I guess he figured that he should not say that and stopped putting it on his auctions. He posted on the Auction that he bought the item for $29 and the Dutch auction started at $29 each. Everyone knows that there is a problem with that on Ebay and we all know it is almost impossible to police. It seems to be an accepted practice. Ebay needs to lower their rates and make S&H a field in the auction creation form. Then they could include the S&H fee in the current price that way no one could hide their fees. Of course Ebay would not lower their rates if they did this. They would just make it a new revenue stream.
posted on March 15, 2001 03:29:00 PM new
Hi dottie....I don't think the unsettling question really centers on the shipping and handling - that's somewhat moot.
After all, it's blatantly stated in the sellers terms.
The issue for me focuses on 'turning someone in' ... because ... of competition.
Or, for that matter...maybe we don't like their name.
If something is immoral or legally wrong - such as body parts, etc. That's a different call. And, clearly spelled out.
That's my issue. when this was first posted, I hoped I had missed something in the statement. Appartently not.
posted on March 15, 2001 03:50:42 PM new
thepriest: I was just havin' some fun! *angelic smile*
For the record.... I've already stated in this thread that it is my understanding that exceptionally low opening bid amounts paired with unreasonably high S&H for that same item is considered FEE AVOIDANCE and is against eBay rules.
Folks can either turn someone in when they see it, or not. eBay pretty much lets the community police itself in that regard, as far as I can tell. *sigh*
posted on March 15, 2001 08:17:29 PM new
"Bay's unspoken rule is that items under $1 may not ship for over $5. That is the guideline eBay uses to determine fee avoidance."
twinsoft, and just what would you know about eBay's "unspoken" rules? I think that's totally unfounded and without merit. A case can be made in certain circumstances. You can't arbitrarily apply your "unspoken" rule to every to every case. Plain and simple.
mark090, I believe the utopia you spoke about will come to fruition sometime in the future, but only after "World Peace" has been achieved. Right about the same time that 'old Lucifer starts wearing a knit cap, scarf, mittens, & earmuffs. He might just spring for insulation & a heating system to warm up his 'lil pad!
posted on March 15, 2001 08:27:40 PM new
I would not turn a competitor for blatently overcharging on shipping. I would let them keep on truckin'...
The majority of customers will see right thru that and head on over to my auctions ....
CHA CHING!
That seller is actually increasing YOUR business. If by chance someone does buy from them, it will only be one time - and once they have learned and buy from you - you can make a long-term customer of them!
Use it to your advantage - make your shipping amount prominent. Customers WILL notice.
posted on March 16, 2001 05:52:17 AM new
esc74: Twinsoft is right. I've heard that "unspoken rule" mentioned by eBay folks during voices conference calls in the past on the topic of various forms of fee avoicance. It is ONE of the internal guidelines for determining fee avoidance while investigating on a case by case basis.
I was surprised that twinsoft bothered to post it here though... because that particular text is NOT available on the eBay site (as far as I know) and your reaction toward twinsoft for trying to help, is exactly what I'd expect to come from eBay members reading it here. (something I noticed a long time ago... and that's why usually, I don't know nothin' at AW... so folks will like me better) *sigh*
Now.... you've learned that twinsoft knows something you didn't know before.... and twinsoft has learned not to let on to anyone (even if they think it's doing folks a favor) that they might know something the rest of the gang posting at AW doesn't know...
Dang it twinsoft... TRY not to be so INFORMATIVE and HELPFUL! lolol
Personally, I am always fascinated with sellers who have nothing better to do than search all the competitive items and turn in any thing they can find, that “they” feel is an offense! Obviously, such a seller has little else to do, and isn't selling enough to keep them busy with their own business.
This is the "flea market" mentality - trying to obtain sales by eliminating one's competition.
Most I've encountered of this mentality, are blamers - it is always someone else’s fault that their items don't sell. They never accept the responsibility that perhaps their product is not of interest to the public, or it is poorly displayed, photographed, or over priced. They take their frustration out on their competitors in their attempt to gain sales.
jumpup
I agree but only to a point. I wouldn't turn in most sellers regardless of violation, BUT if obviously offensive adult products pop up in standard categories, these I will turn in.
posted on March 16, 2001 10:42:23 AM new
Here is what I find fascinating. How can you determine that an item that STARTS at $1.00 should have no more than a $5.00 shipping fee? What about the weight and SIZE of the item? What about where its shipping from and to? What about that sellers particular packaging methods?
Let's say I found a solid gold elephant at a garage sale and bought it for $.50c. I list it on eBay for $1.00 (double my MONEY!) and list a $200.00 shipping fee cause the darn thing weighs 500 pounds and is ten feet tall. Is this fee avoidance? Is this padding shipping? I think not.
However, because I sold the item for let's say $1.00, this would be considered eBay fee avoidance and I could get in trouble?
The problem is that you and eBay can't determine all the factors for someone's shipping charges. First, where are they shipping from? In AK it is very expensive to ship USPS, and UPS doesn't even delivery to most parts or pickup. Second, what needs to be done to ship the item, and in what packaging?
Perhaps the seller uses some third party packager like MBE. They tack on their additional profits. Time, effort, and destination?
Now we determine shipping based on various factors, and adjust for all destinations within the USA. Sure, it may be cheaper to ship something to someone that is close to us, but that averages out when I have to eat some of the cost for the person that I have to ship the item to AK which is not even close. I like a standard shipping charge so that EOA are easier and cleaner. Since we run so many auctions it is just not possible to figure out ACTUAL shipping charges to EACH destinaton in the USA.
I am not saying I agree with a $14.00 shipping charge, however who are WE to determine what that seller charges? That would mean I could determine what YOU should charge for your items, even if I have NO clue how much time, effort, packaging, and cost goes into it.
You have to realize that some sellers are not efficient packers. Some are not smart shipping shoppers (lol).
I say as long as the seller has stated CLEARLY in their ad their shipping charge, the BUYER becomes responsible for determining whether they want to pay it or not. Not to argue AFTER the fact. If one seller is using shipping to profit, so be it, find a way to compete. Perhaps put at the top of your ad "NO UNREASONABLE SHIPPING CHARGES LIKE THE OTHER GUY!". Even perhaps put it in the title. "Product XXXX NEW! CLEAN! LOW SHIPPING".
Just my two cents worth... WAIT my thought charge went up, its now FOUR cents!
posted on March 16, 2001 11:58:29 AM new
kerrigirl: I think you might want to RE-read my last post. I said that it is ONE of the things they look for when investigating for Fee Avoidance on a CASE BY CASE basis....
Certainly factors such as the size and weight of the item and where it's being shipped to would be considered.
posted on March 16, 2001 12:17:39 PM new
Which is my point... eBay is spending all that time for figuring out what is reasonable shipping, when they could be spending that time taking care of real issues like fraud, shills, etc.
eBay is just a venue remember, so why should they care (other than to line their pockets) if I overcharge for shipping?
Also, eBay doesn't ALWAYS look at the case by case basis, even though they say they do. A lot of their reps just use little rules to go by.
Again, it is very hard for me to determine shipping, little alone determine it for the MILLIONS of items on eBay, and go according to some set of rules or not. BUYER beware, its on eBay itself.
posted on March 16, 2001 05:02:44 PM new
I very much DOUBT that the majority of sellers go SURFING for things to turn in. In my *normal*, *everyday* course of shopping for items on Ebay, I find *blatant* violations every day. If they are particularly egregious you bet your sweet patoot I'll turn those suckers in. What kind of a weirdass old school idea is it that people have that 'you don't rat someone out'? Why the hell not? If they're breaking rules seriously enough to catch my attention I'm gonna rat them out on GP. To hell with those schoolboy attitudes...I don't let s*** slide.
posted on March 16, 2001 07:53:14 PM new
"...eBay doesn't ALWAYS look at the case by case basis, even though they say they do. A lot of their reps just use little rules to go by." -kerrigirl
posted on March 17, 2001 04:08:44 AM new
I agree, too, that $14 is a bit over the top. I generally charge a handling fee of $1. Where Priority boxes are free, bubble wrap is not free, popcorn is not free, and gasoline for trips to the PO is definately not free (around $1.40 a gallon here). I usually have to leave an hour early for work to get the package to the PO and even then I have to stand in line (what, do people camp out on the PO's door step?). My handling fee has nothing to do with Ebay's fees or trying to avoid them. I never used to add that handling fee until I actually figured out that I was losing money on a lot of things I was selling due to supplies, etc.
posted on March 17, 2001 04:32:18 AM new
Digging deeply into the synapses, I think I remember something from an old management class I took: It's harder and more expensive to attract a customer than to keep one.
So, if you're a fair dealer, your customers will come back. If you spring surprises on them, they won't. I don't think most people mind handling fees when they're reasonable AND mentioned in the auction. And "reasonable" applies to the item - for example, buyers of some kinds of taxidermy figure shipping will be high because some items need to be crated professionally. I'd rather pay someone 50c for bubble wrap than the next weight class in Priority shipping because they use shredded newspaper.
eBay is one of the best examples of laissez faire capitalism going. People who take the time to research what sells, present their items well, and in the correct category at competitive prices do well.
If this seller is truly taking business away from you, maybe you should rethink your approach - either add "Low Shipping" in your Title or copy his ways, and start the bidding lower and add a high handling fee.
I too would rather see eBay concentrating its efforts on site stability, attracting buyers to the site, etc. than to see them chasing down icky but not illegal activities.
posted on March 20, 2001 02:18:43 PM new
I'll tell you one thing, if you ever look at the shipping rates for things like Laptops you will see shipping rates around $25. I know for a fact that it will cost at least $15 to send the item by UPS. I've had to do it before when the item was DOA, I didn't mind so much the $15, but I figured out that most of the sellers were not making a lot of money on the shipping. Adding $5.00 for the box, bubble wrap, styrofoam peanuts, etc they are probably making $5.00. Of course this ignores the item spend taking the package to the UPS drop point.
My suggestion is that you find out the weight and price it on ups.com/fedex.com, etc. Add a few bucks for materials and then see if the shipping is fair.
posted on March 20, 2001 03:42:17 PM new
You have to look at a series of details that I haven't noticed anybody bring up here. IF the product being sold is very standardized, say a pack of 25 specific brand blank CD's, or floppies, or new, up-to-date ink cartridges, or something like say a pack of 500 Topps baseball cards... *exactly* the same as several dealers are listing and relisting duplicate auctions for, *then* you might do some real analysis. The situation cited in the initial post sounded it might be this clearcut, too, but might not have been. Anyway, say you're selling your identical widgets, things that cost you $15 (and that's the best price available for your competition, too) and that you figure a "real" S&H for (easy to pack, non-breakable, say) at $5 by priority, which you can quote exactly in your ad. Say now with that all clear, that you routinely start *your* ads at $15 minimum, no reserve, and have them average selling for $17.50 with half of them not catching a bid at all, $22.50 total bill to your buyers.
Now say you observe a competitor charging $15 S&H, clearly gouging for $10 over "real" costs, with an initial listing of $5, no reserve. Say you can see they list twice as many auctions for these identical items as you do, have bids on 90% of theirs, and average a $10 final bid, meaning $25 to them when they add S&H as compared to your $22.50.
This situation would also mean you were paying *Ebay* less total fees than was your competitor, for this one item, anyway. He's avoiding fees, he's catching careless customers and tricking them into paying more total than they do with you, he's taking buyers away from you since he's selling over three times as many widgets as you are, BUT he's also contributing more fees to Ebay's bottom line..... much *less* PER AUCTION, but making it up to them in volume. Would they get more by enforcing an equal playing field, or by winking at sellers who slime their bidders by creating this sort of illusion that there's an even bigger savings over other sources for this same item? Does Ebay itself gain from these sellers if the buyers compare to other online selling sites, plus B&M stores, so that they might actively decide to shaft smaller sellers who list realistic S&H fees?
If there's a policy like that, they wouldn't tell you, and you'd get action only from finking on a *smaller* seller. Plus, of course, many, many listings are of unique items and/or ones with serious shipping and handling issues so an analysis isn't clear-cut.
posted on March 20, 2001 04:21:13 PM new
...and if you do a regression analysis including outside variables, such as the $29,000 in Spiro Agnew's briefcase, you might get a .0032% return on...blah blah blah...gibberish!
