posted on March 18, 2001 06:14:42 PM newEvery potential buyer makes the decision about trusting me/Andale with their information by placing a bid. They know up front that I use Andale...
The last time I bid on an auction in which the seller used Andale to manage their auctions, I was given no information regarding Andale's (or the seller's, for that matter) privacy policy as it pertains to buyers. Has that changed?
posted on March 18, 2001 06:28:42 PM new
I wouldn't even think of using Andale as a seller. There's a seller I know of that has hundreds of negs due to problems with Andale, automated email, etc.
posted on March 18, 2001 07:11:08 PM new
I don't know anything about Andale, except for today. My daughter won something on ebay, received and end of auction notice.
She had me read it. It was 'Congratulations you won xxxx for xxx. Now click the link to go to the checkout'
Huh? So I clicked the link and it didn't work. Copied and pasted it in the browser, still nothing. She wrote the seller, to say that the link doesn't work.
Personally I don't know what is at the 'Checkout' end. But right now, its not working.
Are Andale sellers allowed to write up their own end of auction notices? [email protected]
posted on March 18, 2001 07:22:23 PM newmrpotatoheadd
The system defaults to include that information in the auction template. You just ran across an idiot seller who decided to use a blank template instead and not put it in. I keep trying to get across that bad selling practices are the fault of the individual not any given service.
I make sure that information is prominent in my auctions to drive away potential problem bidders with an agenda concerning how I should run my business. There's plenty of fish in the eBay sea, if one can't find them they should consider that maybe fishing isn't for them.
posted on March 18, 2001 07:32:20 PM newNearTheSea
Your seller should have given you the option of emailing them the info they need. That is their shortcoming not Andale's. Sometimes those links can appear in your inbox as HTML code, and many buyers don't know which part to paste into their browser. Unless the seller removed that info from the email template there is alternate procedure:
2. Come to www.andale.com and click on "Pay and Track" under the Buyer Services box. Follow the instructions on that page.
posted on March 18, 2001 07:44:23 PM new
Thank you bemused. The link was 'clickable' in her email, it just went to a 'dead' page.
And thats about all he did put, was the Congrats, and click the link to her in his email.
I'll help her get it done. Thanks [email protected]
posted on March 18, 2001 07:54:29 PM new
bemused -- you seem to keep harping on "potential problem bidders with an agenda".
I have never had to worry about bidders with an agenda so I wouldn't know what that was like.
However, when I make a bid on something that interests me I really only expect prompt, courteous and personal contact from the seller (and not to be told to go off-site to give my contact information to a third party). Period. No agendas.
posted on March 18, 2001 08:50:21 PM new
Right on Bemused! I am a Power Seller who uses Andale...love it most of the time, but it has its frustrations, just as Ebay sometimes does. It has enabled me to more than double my listings and my income. My customers for the most part love it, and daily compliments come on re professionalism, ease of checkout, etc. If someone doesn't want to use it, fine, I will work with them direct. I never can understand the amazing hostility that emerges regularly on this board...live and let live...lighten up. If Andale works for me and I am successful with it...fine. If you won't bid on my auctions because I use it, that's fine too!
posted on March 18, 2001 09:23:10 PM newengelskdansk
All that sounds good unless you bid on what is clearly an Andale auction and you attempt to redefine the seller's business procedures after the fact.
I really don't know what you mean by "personal contact", this is email we're talking about here isn't it? What do you do, talk to all your sellers by phone? No email, whether its sent by Andale, eBud, AW, or your own template is "personal". What are you demanding after the auction ends? An EOA unlike any that seller has ever written to another customer so that you can feel special about yourself? Gimme a break!
If you want personal, go to Walmart and have your ego massaged by a real live pre-programmed person following a customer service policy instead of an email template.
If my customers need any extra help or questions answered they get all the personal responses they need. It's your false assumption that they would not. This is true of any good seller whether they use Andale or any other method.
posted on March 18, 2001 09:33:13 PM new
Just my opinion, but most of this thread seems to be a number of folks intent on feeding the anger/hostility of one person. Rather defeats the purpose of the original thread.
posted on March 18, 2001 09:52:23 PM newinsightwatcher
The anger is directed (as usual) towards Andale sellers. I'm merely taking the unusual position (on these boards) of offering a dissenting opinion to the lurkers. However if the "original purpose" was yet another Andale bashfest then you are absolutely right.
This may be an inconvenient concept for you, but as someone being tarred by the broad brush wielded around here (re: Andale) I have an interest in challenging the tide of misinformation.
I'm not trying to change any closed minds, but when you see yourself painted as lazy and inept it demands a response (unless its true of course).
Maybe some of you should visit the Andale/Honesty board and proffer your opinions to those "lazy" sellers over there.
If Pepsi launched a "Coke Sucks" ad campaign, should Coca Cola respond or leave that perception festering in the public arena? If you make blanket statements expect a response, you can't hide behind your keyboard completely, it isn't big enough.
[ edited by bemused on Mar 18, 2001 10:04 PM ]
[ edited by bemused on Mar 18, 2001 10:05 PM ]
posted on March 18, 2001 10:17:14 PM new
Whelp I'm afraid I'm going to have to let you peeps go back to preaching to the choir here. Ironically enough I have to answer some customers questions and shepherd some recently closed auctions. Hopefully this thread will soon fall of its own crushing weight.
posted on March 18, 2001 11:38:16 PM new
Even if you make a healthy profit, what reasonable person want's to pay as much as ebay fees just to email and track info. I have a program that I have been using for 3.5 years, and it's working like a charm, except when ebay torpedoes these programs. I calculated the estimated fees that I have to pay Andale if I use their service and it would be in the upwards of $650.00/month, With this money I could buy a Mercedes. Additionally, many customers don't like 3 party services, I have told that numerous times.
[ edited by trueuser on Mar 18, 2001 11:39 PM ]
posted on March 19, 2001 05:17:21 AM new
bemused - "recklessly and relentlessly maligning a service (and sellers) you've never used is?"
I am not maligning them, but I have never been successful at using them ... the crappy coding on their pages crashed my browser several times so I gave up.
And they were flat DOWN yesterday, with main page and everything timing out. I wasn't trying to run auctions, just get to the main page to check their privacy policy about buyer info.
posted on March 19, 2001 09:54:26 AM new
I don't particularly care a whole lot about "personal" vs. impersonal contact in eBay. While I do kind of prefer the former, I can get by just fine without it. What I do care about is whether the information I may provide will be treated with respect.
On or offline, a lot of companies sell out their customers, selling their information, behind their backs, to third parties, almost always direct marketers responsible for the never-ending and frequently annoying stream of junk mail, pushy, telemarketing calls, and ever-increasing spam. This is not respectful (or respectible), IMO, and it is often done quietly, for a reason: the less people know about the specifics, the less chance they'll even realize it is happening, much less complain or fight it.
In terms of online auction assistants, there are:
1) those bidders who don't know or care about this issue;
2) those that know and do care about the issue but aren't (yet) aware of who the third parties are and how to recognize them, until they place a high bid and decide to reject the form link and instead contact the seller directly;
3) those who do know and care and yet bid and reject using the third party link anyway; and
4) those who do know and care and avoid bidding on such auctions altogether, when recognized as such.
bemused, though not a third party, clearly most desires category #1 bidders as customers, and doesn't feel they are missing much in #4, and that is fine. I can also see where #3 would be very annoying.
The #2 case is perhaps the most troubling point in this context. A bidder bids high and is suddenly confronted with a link to a form, but did not know that would happen; and while wanting to complete the eBay transaction, doesn't want to be revealing information to both the seller there were ready to trust and some here-to unheard-of third party. So they send the information directly to the seller, maybe even saying they don't want to give the information to a third party. But the seller turns around and gives the info to a third party anyway. While some sellers might consider having the form filled out to be part of completing the transaction, whether it is liked or not, some bidders will consider it distasteful. Who is right and who is wrong? That is not that simple to say, and that is the problem: nowadays, it is clear that many companies do feel, wrongly IMO, that they have the right to do just about whatever they want with that information, so many will not reconsider just because of the irritation of some customers knowing what they do and demanding something different.
Of course, third parties abound, sometimes right under our noses. A buyer at a B&M store writes a check, and the information is often sent to a check verification service. Now the question is, does that service do anything more with the information beyond just simple verification? I don't know on a case-by-case basis for this or for CC use, except for certain cases that have come to court cases or such. Being "sold out" can be avoided in many cases, but not if you're even aware this is happening....
I wouldn't care about verification or third party forms or the rest if a large number of such situations weren't just about verification or internal research or such, but about selling such information to direct marketers. I am disgusted with all unsolicited direct marketing, because I am tired of having to waste time on it, even just tossing, deleting, or hanging up on it. I also don't want to waste my time figuring out each and every company that does or does not act honorably with my information. (Yes, I am spending some time with notes like this, but this is something I choose to do because I want to at this point, not something I am forced to deal with whether I like it or not. )
Personally, I think the ultimate solution on all forms of this discussion is that in any case where transactional information would be used for additional direct marketing or sold or distributed to other companies would be to have to secure explicit, conscious permission from the customer (opt-in).
A compromise possibility would be prominent, clear disclosure of such things (for example):
"If you write a check or use a credit card, the verification company may sell your information to direct marketers."
"If you are high bidder on this auction, you will have to fill in a third-party form at www.____.com"
Website privacy policies sort of look like this kind of disclosure, and are sort of a half step in the right direction, but they are not always prominent by any means, and worse, are rarely clear and often contain loopholes (a step in the wrong direction, which makes the reassuring tones of some privacy policies seem quite deceptive).
I have seen at least one seller state something to the effect of the second example above, and you know what, I had a lot of respect for that. It's more or all third party-using sellers doing this that would eliminate some of the problem. The apparently continued uncertainty of what such services do actually do with the information, privacy policy or not, would continue, but it would be one less leg that a high bidder could stand on if they would complain (i.e. they couldn't rightfully say "well, I didn't know I would have to fill out a form with some third party" ).
At least those are my opinions.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
posted on March 19, 2001 10:11:12 AM new
I am open-minded and listen to the opinions of posters and bidders. I do use Andale at this time. I tried AW briefly but found that their storefronts took too long to update, and their EOAs always took 24 hours to reach me (my carbon copy).
Andale has problems. Outages, slow load times, confrontations with Ebay.
I agree with vrane.com. Ebay does do it's best to stomp out the competition. One day a template/logo by Andale is approved by Ebay, the next day Ebay says these are policy violation.
However, I wanted to say that Andale has been a premium source of repeat business for me. I cannot explain this result exactly, especially after hearing so many complaints in so many postings. But it's true; Andale has helped me build a loyal, repeat business customer base.
I do take steps to help my bidders. I do state right in my auctions that they can skip checkout. I reiterate this in my End of Auction notice. Many *do* skip it, but I don't mind. (However, I am not a true volume seller, so I can see the reasoning behind needing bidders to enter info.)
As far as what Andale would do with this database, I have seen no intent of misuse. If a seller were really vigilent, they could delete or alter the shipping addresses in the database after the package had gone out. But I am still listening to opinions on this before deciding what steps to take.
Other than AW and Andale, I have seen no service that offers EOAs, pic hosting, auction launch and storefront in one big package.
The outages hurt very badly, but Ebay and other services have outages, too. I keep weighing the pros vs. cons and for now am staying. However, I will read all of these posts with an open mind.
posted on March 19, 2001 10:31:43 AM new
I believe that services like Andale exist because there is some notion that a person cannot roll up their sleeves and put together a plan to manage their own busines;an expertise that is beyond the average seller to negotiate.
This is, of course, absolutely untrue. You don't need an overriding service, just a few select services. If you can't manage your business on your own, you shouldn't be doing it.
posted on March 19, 2001 11:01:31 AM newAll that sounds good unless you bid on what is clearly an Andale auction and you attempt to redefine the seller's business procedures after the fact.
If seller states clearly, "buyer agrees to give personal information to Andale", then, I just don't bid.
If seller doesn't say any such thing, but just springs this later, I refuse (politely). It's a surprising surcharge I don't agree to. So far, every Andale seller has taken my money and sent me my stuff. To avoid confrontation, I avoid auctions which make it clear that seller might insist on the Andale completion process.
1. I want to find sellers who can offer the items I want at the lowest possible price. I personally believe sellers who have to pay another fee to Andale will factor that into the price I am paying. Thus, instead of waiting for the whole page to load, I simply hit the back key whenever I see Andale.
Also, I find Andale descriptions do load slower. Another reason for hitting the back key.
2. I perfer to write checks for everything I buy. Easier for my business records and management of what I am spending. As such, I need the address of the seller. I find going to another link slows me down versus just fetching it from an email.
Also, my email confirmation is preset with keyboard macros. I can respond with a hotkey which takes 2 seconds versus going to a link which may or may not work and requiring me to enter my information again. And more problematic are links which are down on my first try to access. I now have to remember to go back to it later.
3. Based on all the problems with spam, dot.com selling off names and addresses, hackers breaking into sites, etc... I perfer to reduce my exposure by not giving out personal information unless I have to.
4. While you are willing to have buyers NOT go to the Andale link, some sellers are not. I hate to read thru every auction description (and some of them can be quite lengthly) to find out if a seller does or does not. Also, I hate extra emails to sellers who does not disclose their practice. Thus, I find it easier to skip ALL Andale sellers.
I realize I am penalizing all Andale sellers unfairly, But one has to realize that my time is important also. If it takes me longer to view an Andale lot versus other sellers, I perfer the other sellers.
I hope you take the above comments as being constructive. And obviously, based on how some of your customers like Andale, I may be in the minority view.
posted on March 19, 2001 11:46:20 AM new
Sg52, I agree and so far every seller, I have won an auction from using Andale, has worked with me to get their money and my item.
So as long as that happens I will keep bidding on Andale auctions. If and when I see I must use Andale to complete an auction, then I either won't bid or complete the transaction.
I just went through a disaster with someone using Auction Manager and I will not bid on any auctions using that system again. Too impersonal and hard to contact Seller.
Ain't Life Grand...
