posted on March 19, 2001 11:27:10 AM
I just got this email from a buyer:
hi there!
i am from ontario. i have purchesed several 1/24 dicast cars from sevaral states, and average shipping via u s postal service
airmail is 6.35 with out ins. i dont mid the ins. but please keep the value at about 19.50 for a toy car and there is no taxes of any kind to either of us.
i can use paypal as soon as you let me know the
total.
thanks xxx
Now, I don't want to be a hard a**, but what I sold this person is not a toy. It is not a 1/24 dicast car either. It is a telephone in the design of a car.
I don't feel right saying that it is a toy on the customs form. If there were ANY WAY that this could be considered a toy, I would do it, but come on...
How should I handle this? I don't want a negative. Should I just ignore the request and complete the form honestly or address the issue in emails before hand.
posted on March 19, 2001 11:37:17 AM
How about the truth?
Dear XYZ,
I'm sorry but U.S. Law prohibits me from putting incorrect information on custom's forms. I am required to list the item as (insert whatever the heck it actually is) at $(whatever dollars they paid for it).
No one likes to pay more taxes or customs but no one wants to go to jail just to save $5 either.
posted on March 19, 2001 11:55:13 AM
Sorry but a phone shaped like Dale Eanrhardt's car with flashing headlights when the phone rings is more toy than phone, sort of a toy phone.
Why is the buyer concerned over shipping rates anyway when you state in the auction
*Free Shipping With Buy it Now*
posted on March 19, 2001 11:56:25 AM
Eventer is correct. If he has already been purchasing items from your country he knows the law. So just put "telephone" and the actual value on the form.
If he gave you a negative would he put "Seller refused to lie on Customs form"?
No, this is not a toy but you know what they say about men and their toys. I guess it could be considered one by him.
posted on March 19, 2001 11:58:19 AM
I suggest (now that the barn door is open and the horse is already gone) that you place a disclaimer in future auctions, as part of your standard auction post. "I welcome international bidders and work hard to find the cheapest method of shipping your newly won item to its new home. However, as an honest eBay seller, please be aware before bidding that I will not falsify customs documentation for any reason."
Then, you can point to this caveat if you find similar requests in your mailbox.
I don't do a lot of international sales, but if I did, I would put this on.
posted on March 19, 2001 12:03:48 PM
Thanks for all of the advice. I just emailed him and basically told him that I didn't feel comfortable lying on the customs form. I told him that I would put in any honest discription that he wanted me to, like "telephone" "Dale Earnhardt Collectible", or whatever... I'm holding my breath.
punkinhed - This auction didn't say "Free Shipping With Buy It Now". You may have been looking at my other auction for the same item. I sold two.
If that item is purchased in the toy section, then call it a "toy". But if you had to purchase that item in the "electronics" section, then it should be labeled a "phone" or "electronics".
antiquealley,
place a disclaimer in future auctions
I,personally, wouldn't feel comfortable placing a disclaimer like that in my auctions. It's almost a bit insulting toward the vast majority of international bidders who never ask for anything illegal to be done.
About the worst the buyer could state on feedback is "seller refused to cooperate with buyer". Then you have a ready response in "buyer asked me to lie on customs's form".
posted on March 19, 2001 12:09:59 PM
dani
Do Not Lie On That Form! If you continue to sell out of the country, take some of the Great ideas from this thread and make yourself a nice, professional form letter to send out when this happens.
sorry about this ~ and I know I will probably be bashed, too ~ but the e-mail you received is exactly why I do not ship out of the US. Perhaps your experiences differ based on the categories you sell in, but every single international winning bidder asked me to lie on the customs form.
I received incredibly nasty e-mails from these bidders asking if I was prejudiced, had something against Canadians, etc. On the off chance that the package I send is opened by customs, I have committed a federal crime and been caught. After all, how many articles of "used clothing" that are "valued at $8" are shipped looking new with the retail tags attached for $80???
I choose not to sell internationally so that I am no longer put in the position of having to explain to these arrogant people why their saving two bucks isn't worth my life and my family.
Yes, I know that not all international bidders do this. As I stated above, it may be the category or just my "EG magnetism". I can only relate my personal experience with this. >>>no bashing, okay?<<<
Best of Luck!
posted on March 19, 2001 12:12:38 PM
I stand corrected, missed the second one.
Excuse my ignorance on the next question but would a 29.00 phone create more taxes than a 29.00 toy?
I think the item cost is what he/she is more concerned about than whether or not it's a called a toy.
(I still say Toy though)
posted on March 19, 2001 02:58:17 PM
The same thing happened to me. My TOS state that I ship to USA only, and yet I had a canadian buyer bid & win one of my auctions. He bought a pair of chaps cords from me, and sent me this email:
Please check off "gift" on the USPS sticker. description: used slacks
Value:5.00 and include a copy of the ebay invoice in the package so I know
who to give positive feedback to when it gets here. :]
Now, if I check of gift, and put the invoice in there, isn't that asking for trouble??? And what's with the feedback? Will he neg me if I don't? I will reply as someone already stated. Asked me to lie on customs form.
posted on March 19, 2001 03:25:09 PM
I have it stated in my auctions that I don't ship outside of the US. I sold an outfit on ebay and the high bidder was in the US. Well when I received her payment in the mail, she sent the MO and a letter stating that she would like it shipped to her daughter at an APO address and she even included the customs form with the gift box checked off ! That really made me PO'ed. It's one thing to ask to mark it as a gift, but another to try to sneak it past me! Talk about rude! I would just email the person and let them know that you cannot and will not lie on the customs form.
Rachel
Mom to Baylee, Thomas and Gavin
posted on March 19, 2001 03:48:07 PM
As an international seller, I get these requests, though usually from highly taxed countries (not the US) I tell them the truth: I have to sign a document regarding the value, I am a business with a tax number and am not in a position to do it. I try not to sound Polly Anna or accusing and I have always received understanding. Certainly no one has left negative feedback. I also don't feel a need to post that I don't falsify documents in my listing. I don't say: Will not steal candy from babies or harm small animals either.
PS I'm Canadian and I don't ask anyone to falsify documents.
posted on March 19, 2001 03:53:24 PM
Thanks for all of the great responses. He finally responded and I think he's okay with me not putting "toy", but I'm not quite sure. His emails are a bit confusing. Here's the latest:
hi there!
i just sent you an email about 5 min. ago. freinds tell me ups is less
expensive, its only the high value placed on the package that is the problem
with cost on this end. i will shipping up to you. just giv me a total. sorry
about this!
thanks again *****
. I really didn't mind him asking me to place the value at $19.00 because, actually, that's less than what it is valued at to me. If I needed to replace it, I could do so for less than $19.00.
posted on March 19, 2001 03:57:12 PM
Tell him UPS will charge him a $30.00 brokerage fee, and as you don't want that to happen you will stick with USPS and will put down the amount as what he paid.
posted on March 19, 2001 03:57:15 PM
Oh, come on you guys! I understand your reasons to not lie on the customs forms, and applaud them. But try to work with the buyers, to help them not have to pay tax.
If they bought something for borderline the duty-free limit, would it be too much to make sure that you are on THIS side of that limit?
If they have bought more than one item, why not suggest they have the parcel addressed to more than a single individual?
I would NEVER falsify the contents of a parcel, and would not tick gift for something with an invoice, and nor would I expect anyone else to. But I also don't think minor under-reporting a value is a god-awful thing to do.
posted on March 19, 2001 04:45:07 PM
mivona, if you read any of my posts at all, you will see that I was bending over backward to help this guy. I did agree to keep the value at $19.00, and I gave him several choices of what I could call it. I even offered to let him come up with a different "title" that was more truthful.
posted on March 19, 2001 05:10:37 PM
Falsification of Customs forms is against the law. period. If you don't want to pay the taxes, why choose to shop internationally and ask someone else to break the law?
>>>I also don't think minor under-reporting a value is a god-awful thing to do.<<<
hmmm...
Is "minor under-reporting" like being "a little" pregnant?
If you choose to break the law, go right ahead. But don't ask others to join you.
exactly why my auctions state "Shipping within the US only. No international bidders, please."
posted on March 19, 2001 05:54:12 PM
Well, if you really don't want to lie, the value on the Customs form should be the value of what the items sold at, not what you could replace it for.
FYI - Even at $19.50 US, your Cdn high bidder will still be taxed, as anything over $20 Cdn is open to GST & Provincial taxes.
At todays rate, your item valued at $19.50 will be pushing $30 Cdn.
I just wanted to say, I love my International buyers & always bend over backwards to do whatever it takes to keep them coming back for more.
And thanks to all the US sellers that refuse to ship outside of their country!
posted on March 19, 2001 06:05:34 PM
...the value on the Customs form should be the value of what the items sold at, not what you could replace it for...
Is this true? I always assumed it to mean replacement value.
posted on March 19, 2001 06:21:46 PM
I usually play eenie-meanie-minie-moe before checking off the customs box, and if my pen mark hits "gift" I leave it like that...I don't want to make the form too messy or anything.
posted on March 19, 2001 10:26:15 PM
Well, as a Canadian, having to pay an extra $10 to the postman can be a big deterrent to bid on any US auctions.
If you don't want to lie, cut the seal on the package and voila, it's "USED". This is person-to-person selling, and unless you include an invoice from your business, it's not going to be considered new merchandise. There's nothing dishonest about it since once you open the package, it can't be sold as "new" anymore.
No one is going to be prosecuted for a $20 item. I order from etailers all the time (Express.com for example) that routinely value the package at $0 and check off gift. Been doing it since 1999.
The customs office only cares about high-value items. The could not care less about these low-value $20 items. And it's the importing country that levies the fees/charges. Can anyone see Canadian customs coming after a home-based seller for mislabelling a customs form?
posted on March 19, 2001 11:06:01 PMbobokiki: well, *my* experience in life has been that I am usually not only "the one they catch," I am also the one they decide "to make an example" of & throw the book at!
posted on March 20, 2001 05:16:59 AM
Thank you, bobokiki. I do not believe that British Customs is going to open my parcel, and decide that something should be valued at $25 instead of $17. Nor can I see the cost effectiveness of going after a US-based seller for under-reporting the value by $8. I mean... it might have cost them £10 in charges!
Customs is much more likely to get its cut on high-value items, and rightly so. And if a business is consistently sending "gifts", I would have thought that might come to their attention too.
And who can determine the "value"? Is it replacement value? The sale value? If I am sent some old china from my family as a gift, does it have "collectible" value placed on it, or is it just old, family china? Of course, trying to pass off diamonds as costume jewellery will get you into big trouble.
I don't fuss about those people who don't want my money. There are lots of others who do, and who recognise that foreign bidders will bid higher than domestic ones sometimes, simply because we are taxed so high that our bid price still seems "bargain" to us.
Danilynn, I would suggest that you email the buyer and try to figure out what his concern is. Because the duty on different types of goods varies, he may be trying to get it into a lower-banded good. Or maybe he just made a mistake with your email. A toy car is a toy car, a telephone is a telephone, but some telephones are more like toys than telephones. I would think that "toy telephone" would probably work better than "electronics", but think it would be best if you could find out WHY.
that you place a disclaimer in future auctions, as part of your standard auction post. "I welcome international bidders and work hard to find the cheapest method of shipping your newly won item to its new home. However, as an honest eBay seller, please be aware before bidding that I will not falsify customs documentation for any reason."
