posted on April 6, 2001 08:05:09 AM new
I, along with many others who post here, am extremely unhappy with the way things are developing at eBay.
eBay has created a monster of sorts and many small time sellers like myself have been inadvertently sucked into its lair.
Before eBay, we managed. We bought, we sold, we scaped, we got by.
Then eBay opened a marvelous new venue for us to sell thing and supplement our income.
Then eBay grew and prospered and allowed some of us to make a living there.
We were hooked! But good!!!
Then eBay began to stick it to us.
First came the site outages, then came higher fees, then came more site outages, then came the banner ads, then came more outages, then came additional features, then came more outages, then came the big time boys, then came more outages, then came millions of new categories, then came more outages, then came more seller restrictions, then came more outages...... on on and on and on it goes ad nauseum!
Now many sellers are up the creek without a paddle as eBay continues to stick it to the small time seller and kiss the you know what of the big time boys.
This has left many of us small folks in somewhat desparate straights.
We came to depend on the income from eBay sales. Now, with fee increases, outages, increased competition, etc. we are fast losing, or have already lost most, if not all of our primary or secondary income.
Yes, it is shake-out time. And who really cares, except perhaps the small sellers like myself that are most affected by the turning tide.
Sellers have tried the boycott route. It hasn't worked.
I think it is the buyers that need to boycott eBay. It's the buyers that have made eBay what it has become, not the sellers.
I, for one, no longer buy on eBay. But until other buyers, en masse, decide to favor another site, or sites, then eBay will continue to grow and prosper.
At least I have the satisfaction of knowing that I am no longer a contributing factor to that growth.
Sorry for the long post. I just had to get this off my chest.
posted on April 6, 2001 08:23:04 AM new
Please hang in there.
I don't believe it is over for any of us, -- unless we allow it to be.
A boycott only punches ourselves.
In defense of eBay, they're doing what they have to do - or, we won't have anyplace. Sure, thing could be done better. Just think of our own little ventures and how we learned HTML, wrapping, costs of shipping, taking photos, etc.
Now, multiply that with eBay and throw in some very serious competition.
Re: small sellers...if we're selling old, vintage, antiques and collectibles - we'll be okay. If, however, one is buying from a wholesaler (watches, jewelery, cds, etc) - that's a different ballgame.
If the larger bricks and mortar come on board that's great. More people will visit.
Also, eBay will have to become more sophisticated in their customer relations.
Already, there are people on this board and the DNF line that regularly email to various reporters at WSJ, NYT, CNN, etc.
the public and the market are very aware of eBay.
This is still an embryonic venture. There's a lot to be grateful - and, much more growth to do...
posted on April 6, 2001 09:17:55 AM new
Sellers need to realize that they are responsible for their own success or failure and quit blaming everything on ebay.
It's pretty simple. If the listing fee increase affects your bottom line significantly, well then, sell more expensive merchandise. I guarantee you that extra nickel they now charge will be forgotten if you have bigger sales.
As for the outages, it seems to me that most times is just the seller search page. I do check each time something goes amiss, and I can almost always locate my auctions on keyword search during an "outage" so potential bidders can see it too.
[ edited by loosecannon on Apr 6, 2001 09:20 AM ]
posted on April 6, 2001 09:25:03 AM new
Good points, well taken. I need to hear things like this, as it really does help me get things into proper perspective!
posted on April 6, 2001 10:17:03 AM new
The increases in Fees and Postage - has hurt us all. As a powerseller - we sold both wholesale and collectibles. We used to have 400 to 500 auctions going at one time. Now we run 50 auctions a week -- actually right now - none! As we adjust to the trends as quickly as we can detect it.
The rule to this game is be flexible - do not take to much into inventory - and when it does not sell - get rid of it and move on. It has been that way for the last year.
If you are selling wholesale -- unless it is the absolute latest widget - you are in trouble. You will not get retail pricing on Ebay - or the flea market or the live auction hall down the road. Buyers expect to pay wholesale now - Look at the folks that flock into Sams Club, BJ's Outlet etc.
Buyers are smart for the most part and know how to find commercial sites selling the same thing.
The vintage collectible market - is still strong -- IF YOU HAVE THE RIGHT STUFF. We now take a serious look at each item and determine - where we can make out the best. We are finding - live in person aucitons - are beating EBAY out on most vintage collectibles right now.
People on Ebay have the wholesale mind set in many cases - when taking it to the live auction - you have newbies - thinking about selling it on Ebay - collectors - who absolutely need it - and dealers who will keep the price at least respectable.
Ebay has lost nearly $1000 a month from us in commissions as the market shifts and the Ebay buyers have matured. The increase in fees - did not make us stop listing everything on Ebay -- it just made us look at our business and market outlook a bit faster.
There is life after Ebay - but like any retailer - (or e-tailer) - you have to understand your markets - and make the shifts when appropriate.
posted on April 6, 2001 10:59:20 AM new
I think that most (if not all) of the small individual sellers on eBay have lost their usefulness to eBay. I fear that many of us that were successful in the past may be obsolete and may only be starting to realize it and come to grips with it.
One of the best ways to get to stop doing what you no longer wish to do is to do it very poorly.
Ebay seems intent on getting rid of the individual small sellers. They realize that growth and profits will not be lead by small sellers. We were only the beta testers for this new sales venue and marketing strategy that developed over the fast four years. They have now decided that now it is time to the service to companies who are desperate to jump on the bandwagon that they missed out on: “Internet Sales”.
Just like eBay, I’m sure that AW doesn’t give a rat’s behind if individual sellers clear the decks. They have their sights set on “business storefronts to assist merchants in creating an online business identity”. http://www.auctionwatch.com/company/pr/pr51.html Why bother “servicing” small accounts that bring in paltry profits? Just look at the “Services Forum” boards – it is the same questions and comments over and over again by different individuals. Message boards, picture hosting and listing services for inept individuals are not what are going to bring in the profits. Those services are simply a tax for the computer illiterate, the inept and the lazy.
The attitude now seems to be, “Just go away and let the big boys play”.
Those who, “understand (the) markets - and make the shifts when appropriate” may only be delaying the inevitable.
posted on April 6, 2001 11:20:24 AM new
I don't know how or where you get that idea Corrdogg.
I'm a small time seller and I don't feel squeezed or unwelcome at ebay. Nor do I feel I'm being shoved out the door. I think that entire notion is wrong. There's room for the small timers too.
I'm not asking ebay for anything except a place to sell my goods. They have no reason to deny that, period.
They're going to turn down my 4 or 5K fees paid each year? I doubt it. Enough small sellers like me make ebay a lot of money per year.
posted on April 6, 2001 11:31:50 AM new
loosecannon........I agree!
We are not being squeezed out by eBay - we just don't think enough.
No one is putting off the inevitable - we deal in antiques and collectibles - and are doing pretty well - could do better, but can't really complain either.
One major difficulty I believe we all face is staring at the computer all day and listing...it gets to one after a bit...
posted on April 6, 2001 11:58:09 AM new
eBay did what a smart dot com company should have. Instead of sitting back & "assuming" that their gold mine would last forever sans change, they went out and developed "new" money generating ideas. And for that, they still succeed where many others have shutdown their servers and gone home. Did some of their changes adversely effect sellers? Sure, but those (like many who posted above) realize that they too must change to maximize profits. eBay is STILL bringing in the buyers & adding some of the "big guys" will bring in more. How a seller reacts & chooses merchandise (of course combined with customer service, which I believe to be paramount in a good seller) will determine their success.
Personally, I use eBay for many types of items. Collectables, when I was in that market...toys, when the kids "just havta have it"....Decorator items, cause I'm redoing my house....etc., etc.....I still love the unique items that many small sellers offer on the site & in many cases these items will still fetch a better buck on eBay than they would on the dRiveway!
~ Rancher
Pls pardon me if this post in not totally coherient, I'm having a REALLY REALLY BAD DAY!
posted on April 6, 2001 12:42:15 PM new
"Fees paid by 3 or 4 sellers like me pay a salary for an entry level receptionist. By 10 sellers a junior exec.
Why would they throw that down the drain?"
+++++++++++++++
And just what would they need that "entry level receptionist" for? To banter with the delivery driver?
==================
"We are not being squeezed out by eBay - we just don't think enough."
+++++++++++++++
Please; never stop thinking!
But think about this: Is your life better because you are selling on eBay? Are you making the most effective use of your one limited resource (time) by selling on eBay?
Do you have any control, other than reacting to what eBay or AW (or whomever) does?
I'm not happy at the way this situation has developed, but I think it is very shortsighted to ignore the trend.
posted on April 6, 2001 01:04:29 PM newBut think about this: Is your life better because you are selling on eBay? Are you making the most effective use of your one limited resource (time) by selling on eBay?
Well, here's the deal- I'm mainly a collector with lots of extra items from a 30 year collection I'd like to sell in order to buy other items for my collection. Here are my options:
1) Sell my extras to a dealer, and get $2 or $3 (if they are willing to buy at all) for an item that retails for about $10.
2) Sell my extras on eBay to another collector and get $7 or $8 for that same item.
Seems an easy enough choice for me. As for trends... the final values for my auctions are generally higher now than they were three years ago for the same items.
posted on April 6, 2001 01:16:30 PM new
People who whine and complain and continously refer to themselves as small companies or seller never grown to become big companies or sellers.
If you are being squeezed out by a big player, do something about it. If you do something better than someone else, it doesn't matter how big they are, as you will ultimately succeed and prevail.
You only have so long to accomplish your goals, so kick maximum a.. while you still can.
Bring on the big boys, I'm ready for them! I'll run them right out of town.
posted on April 6, 2001 01:37:37 PM new
Oh heck, doesn't anybody realize it is easier to sit back and say "ebay is squeezing out the little seller"
It is easier to say that then to DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE. It is easier to maon and complain and blame some one else for one's own shortcomings.
When a seller is failing at this, it saves face to say "ebay only wants the big guys...they pushed me out the door"
Ebay has been withering on the vine for the last three years (at least)or so say the posters to these boards. Ebay has been pushing the small seller out the door (or so the posters on the OAI chat boards have said) for over three years.
Well, they can't be pushing very hard or are awfully inept at "squeezing out the little guy" because there are still a huge number of "little sellers" selling on ebay!! And more start up everyday.
[ edited by amy on Apr 6, 2001 01:39 PM ]
posted on April 6, 2001 01:51:09 PM new
ebay is what you make it.
ebay would be stupid to force out the small seller. How many people are going to run to ebay to pick up a Sun system as opposed to how many might cruise over there to pick up the latest beanie or must have collectible?
They may make bigger $$$ on the Sun system overall, but it's the interesting items, the vast array of items & the thought of getting a bargain or finding that long lost memorabilis that brings the vast majority of people to ebay.
Nothing stays the same forever except those who whine about nothing staying the same. Prices change, markets change, marketing strategies change. The smart people change with them. The formersellers don't.
Nobody owes you a living, ebay included. Adapt or build your own place.
I'm not saying ebay's perfect..there's a WHOLE lot I don't like about the way it's changed. But I sure don't see ANYTHING in place currently nor being developed which is going to remotely rival it in the short run.
posted on April 6, 2001 04:14:52 PM newAnd just what would they need that "entry level receptionist" for? To banter with the delivery driver?
It was just an example. I only assumed ebay has offices, and if they have offices, they probably have a receptionist, like about 99% or the other companies out there.
posted on April 6, 2001 05:18:33 PM new
Who are these big companies we are talking about, and what will they be selling? They be selling in lots of thousands; they be selling servers and routers which consumers don't give two hoots about; they may sell high end specialty items like Disney with store display items, the fact is we don't know. The big companies don't even know if an auction site is the proper place to sell. Even if they don't use ebay, they could set up their own site and discount us small sellers, so whether we are unhappy with ebay's direction is pointless in discussion.
Wholesalers and distributors have started to already sell on ebay and you have barely noticed unless you are buying or selling in those categories where price wars get pretty nasty.
My supplier already liquidates inventory on ebay but doesn't directly compete with the same items or in the same quantity. It could change though, but it goes to show these bigger companies are only going to sell what is in strong demand leaving us small sellers the crumbs. If you can survive on crumbs, as I have, then you won't have to sweat the changes.
posted on April 6, 2001 07:06:05 PM new
I don't think eBay is going to flush away what they have away. People like us pay $200 to $400 a months in fees, and just because a company is large, they don't turn their noses up at hundred dollar bills. A thousand like us is between a quarter and a half a million $ a month.
Ebay is having growing pains, and the stockholders, who paid too much for the stock are wanting the company to grow faster than maybe it should. Kind'a like these ball players taking steriods, not good for the long run, but does short term wonders.
Could they "run it in the ground"? Maybe, but ebay is the kind of company that doesn't have many "hard" assets. One that they do have, and are now cashing in on is a list of email addresses of people who "buy on the net". They also have a pile of computers. What else do they have if they run it in the ground? This doesn't seem to be the kind of company that a CEO can sell off a peice at a time.
It will be a few more years before ebay quits "tinkering" with the system trying to maximize profits.
My look on it is if your are a small guy like most of us here, expect to get stepped on if you are selling new items. Mom and Pop outfits can't compete with wal-mart selling simular items, and multi-million $ corps. are going to move into ebay and the competition is going to get tough for sellers of new stuff.
If you sell used stuff (not just collectables, but any good quality used merchandise), you are going to compete with people that are at the same basic level you are, and if you are good at what you do, you'll do good, and if you are not good at what you do, you'll be weeded out.
posted on April 6, 2001 09:42:42 PM new
I'm what most of you consider a small seller. I usually have a lot of auctions going, but my average sale is under $4.
I don't know if my ebay fees have ever reached $100 a month.
Still, I make enough to pay my bills (okay, so I live at home with my mother since I had some severe medical problems a few years ago and just haven't moved out again.)
My sales are better now than when I started 2 years ago (of course, part of that prolly is more knowledge, etc.) I think you just have to learn what sells and trends. I had some cards of George W Bush. I got more for them right at inaguarion than at any other time. Saved some so if his popularity soars (ROTFLOL!) I have some to auction then. Its knowing WHEN to sell. Look at the Beanie Market.
Its knowing what to buy at garage sales. I've passed up some great stuff, and have made a few mistakes.
I view eBay as every other business -- you have to go with the market. Buy low. sell high. Just like any other business. A few others found my wholesaler, and the bottom dropped out of that market. Instead of throwing in the towel, I switched markets. Simple as that!
posted on April 25, 2001 01:57:36 PM new
My name is Daniel Costello and I am a reporter at the Wall Street Journal. I am interested in what you write about small time sellers having a harder time on eBay. My email is [email protected] and my phone is 212-416-3620 if you have a moment.
posted on April 25, 2001 02:25:24 PM new
The scalability of eBay is there, but how big can they get and still be viable for a small seller ?
There is a limit to what buyers can see and buy at the venue.
eBay hovers currently at 5.8 million listings.
What happens at 10 million listings or 20 million listings ?
As sellers we are competing for eyeballs and disposable buyer dollars. Both elements have limitations.
Even using a search option has its limits. What happens when a buyer's search brings up 200 pages of the same item ?
There is a critical mass of listed items for an online auction venue which when surpassed, offers diminished returns for the sellers. This comes about through price competition, and actually having your items being seen in an ocean of millions of items resulting in no or diminished sales.
Sooner or later eBay will have to raise listing fees to keep the listings down, or just allow market forces to cause sellers having no or marginal sales to drop out.
Obviously the former is the smart way to go. eBay can drain off marginal sellers and increase revenues.
posted on April 25, 2001 03:01:00 PM new
How do you define a Small Seller? The size of their monthly Ebay bill? The average # of auctions they run a week? The average starting price of those auctions? Their monthly gross sales?
I consider myself a small but growing Ebay seller. My market is 3-pronged: Pokemon cards, Pokemon Plush, and handmade doll clothes (yes, I do have interests besides Pokemon - really! *smile*).
This year my Ebay bill has fluctuated from $20 to $200 a month - and income ranged from $50 to $750.. I've had a fairly consistent auction level of 100 auctions going / week.
Half.com is now expanding into trading cards - to hedge my best, I've already placed sets up there, and will be putting up singles on a daily basis over there (and see what happens). Its an experiment which may or may not pan out - but since Amazon and Yahoo have dried up, all my eggs are in the Ebay basket (except for a few direct sales to past customers) and I don't like that... Maybe will get my website going too, but don't know if there will be traffic or sales generated there..
Anywho - I've heard an awful lot about the poor "small time seller" who is "cluttering" up Ebay - I want to know - am I one? Who defines a seller as "small" - what are the criteria???
posted on April 25, 2001 03:33:33 PM new
The definition of a small seller would be found to be arbitrary in any event.
But perhaps the best definition of a small seller is a seller who eBay doesn't talior the site to because of the marginal revenue eBay receives from them.
eBay makes far more money from one seller that generates $5000 a month in fees than 300 sellers generating $20 each a month in fees.
The $5000 a month seller generates far fewer costs in customer service and management than the 300 sellers. Just the costs of billing are less for the $5000 a month seller. The $5000 a month seller is more cost efficient.
But it gets more interesting as eBay courts large retailers to the site.
While this may bring more buyers, will these large venders allow their items on the same page as yours, or will they be given their own site like Disney ? Will large venders allow competition for buyer dollars ?
If eBay segregates the big venders, how can buyers be steered to the other categories, and will the large venders allow cross marketing or even cross over of search engines ? I don't think so.
Small sellers will be segregated out either by costs or by technically segregating the data base.
Small sellers will be put out for the same reason you don't see flea markets at Wal-Mart, or a second hand store on Madison Ave or premier shopping malls. They will price small sellers out of the market. Economic laws apply to the internet just as they do at B&M.
I can't say for certain what shape the venue will take, but I can say that eBay will follow the best profit strategy. That strategy appears to be tailoring the site and fee structure to large venders.
You might also note that in a recent article regarding the Postal Service's eBay auctions, the fee structure for the Postal Service was not given and is said to be confidential. Small eBay sellers may in fact already be subsidising the large sellers in the fee structure to relect the cost difference.
posted on April 25, 2001 03:38:41 PM new
Ebay has every right to charge what ever fees it can get away with and manage its business anyway it wants. And so far they've gotten away with alot.
I'm hoping that that their fees will become so high and their visibility so great that it will attract some worthy competition.
>I don't know how you can presently sell a single item on eBay for $4 and make any money
We talked about this in another thread yesterday. My personal *minimum* auction price is $10.00, and to me that is marginal. To get much lower than that, you somehow have to streamline the process, so you spend (I would think) no more than 5 minutes time per auction. 5 minutes X 12 = 60 minutes. If half of the $4.00 is profit after ALL expenses, you have 12 X $2 = $24 per hour, and someone is making more than bare wages.
