Dennis Prince here, looking into who might feel sheepish about posting negs to other auction users. Are you hesitant to neg for fear you might receive a neg in return? Do you have a spotless feedback showing and will overlook the transgressions of others to ensure your record remains clean? Have the threats of others who say they'll neg you leave you feeling anxious and uneasy about what might be posted in the public forum?
If you have stories, comments, or opinions about why you might be reluctant to post or receive a neg, contact me directly at
[email protected].
posted on April 9, 2001 06:47:28 PM new
Absolutely people are afraid to neg. Just take a look at a seller with several hundred sales and no negs. Impossible to have that many sales and no opportunities to neg. In other words, some sellers simply ignore deadbeats (etc) and move on to the next round of auctions. The thinking goes thusly: bidder has already stiffed me over a $15.00 auction, it would be stupid for me to neg him/her and then end up with a retaliatory neg on top of the no pay. Etc, etc.
posted on April 9, 2001 07:03:28 PM new
Hello,
I am not afraid to neg, but I do so very carefully and only after I have filed a npba.
The majority of the time they have been naru'd at that point.
If not, I will leave a neg but try to just state facts and remain unemotional.
So far I have yet to have a retaliatory neg and know I have left at least 20+ in over 2000 transactions.
Over all I just don't have that many non payers, I guess I have been lucky there.
I say this knowing that at any moment that could change.**grin**
posted on April 9, 2001 07:08:47 PM new
I said it before & will say again, I will never neg an NPB. If he retaliates against me he's lying. I will not get into a situation where it's her/his word against mine, specially when I know the truth. Negative FB does not hurt a buyer, just the seller. Almost everyone sells to NPB's, but many will not buy from a seller with negative feedback. Negative feedback can lower the amount of bids your item receives and your profits.
posted on April 9, 2001 07:11:09 PM new
Yup, youbetchya I'm afraid to neg! I have negged exactly one deadbeat, got my retaliatory neg back. I have decided not to neg again. I always file my NPB's, but until ebay does something about that system, my finger won't hit that button again.
posted on April 9, 2001 07:14:58 PM new
I have no fear about giving a negative to a deadbeat bidder or a seller who sends misdescribed goods .... and I have the retalitory negs to prove it. But I don't care. It doesn't seem to hurt me as a buyer or seller.
And when a seller or buyer has a couple of negatives, that removes the blackmail possibility. Only those with perfect FB records can be threatened with loss of their FB virginity.
posted on April 9, 2001 07:47:42 PM new
I've said it before too, here it is again. No negs for NPBs. Sorry "team," even though I wish you the best; I'm not losing sales to "protect" you, that's ebaYs job...
I rarely check bidder feedback anyway, do you? Feedback is for the seller, --->IMHO.
MTown
PS. An associate of mine who had similar feedback views to other posters, left negs for NPBs and misc. reasons. Two days into a large run of 600 auctions he was hit by five retaliatory negs. He estimated 10-25% loss of sales on the run because of it. Do you think he changed his feedback policy?
Edited to add: yes, I file NPBs and FVC. Retaliatory negs are much less common for this practice.
[ edited by morgantown on Apr 9, 2001 07:52 PM ]
posted on April 9, 2001 08:12:10 PM new
I don't like to, but I WILL leave a neg if the buyer truly deserves it. I am not afraid of retaliatory negs..they can't hurt me...BUT...I had to stop selling under another name two years ago, because of a nut case who would bid up all my auctions....because I neg'd him for non payment on a $3.00 item! I will never neg an AOL user again.
He would register under a different ID...bid up all my auctions....I would cancel all his bids.....he would re-register...bid them up the next day...it went on for over a week until the auctions ended and I never sold under that name again. That guy would be bidding on my auctions as I was canceling them....what a mess! Ebay was no help...as soon as they NARU'd one ID, he would come back as another.
I always think of that whenever I am about to neg someone......
posted on April 9, 2001 08:21:32 PM new
As a seller, I finally learned not to leave pos feedback until I got a positive. If there's a problem I usually let them shoot first; then I reply to his neg and neg him back. No, I'm not afraid of negative feedback. I'm a little leery of a seller with over 1,000 feedbacks that doesn't have a few. (Maybe he can't defend his products or practices and says whatever to appease the bidder, who, by the way, is not always in the right.)
posted on April 9, 2001 08:34:09 PM new
I'm with Sugar 2912...I got one neg from a lady a month after the auction ended. She wasn't happy with the item but never contacted me. The next 7 were all retaliatory after I negged the guy for not paying. Aside from that, the thing that bothers me about eBay's Feedback reporting is that those ugly red "negs" are always up there at the top of the page. The responses, however, explaining the circumstances, eventually roll pages down. New bidders will probably not search through the pages of feedback to check out the negs. They do see, however, the red "negs" immediately and might hesitate to bid. I will no longer support a flawed system.
posted on April 9, 2001 09:03:05 PM new
Afraid to Neg?
Not at all. Probably left a bit over 2 dozen in my time on ebay. Don't let the threat of a retaliatory one stand in my way.
And I must disagree with mjh2. Over 1000+ auctions & not a neg yet (retaliatory or otherwise) so it's possible to neg & not necessarily get negged in retaliation.
And I don't worry about the day when the first retaliatory, or even deserved one, comes. If buyers can't see read past it to see comments like, "Extremely Fast Shipping", "EXCELLENT Customer Service", "Quality Product", "Honest & Reliable", "Repeat Customer & Proud of It", then so be it.
posted on April 9, 2001 10:30:25 PM new
I leave negs for all non-payment bidders that aren't NARU'D by the time I file my NPB & FVF.
To date, I have left 10 negs (9 as a seller) & I have 0 negs or neutrals left for me in return. The key is to keep your negs factual.
e.g.: "Auction ended xx/01, no response to NPB xx/01, no pay as of xx/01." I have checked up on the negs I have left & none of these people have even responded to the negs I left.
The last neg I left was for a bidder that stiffed me on an item that went for a whopping $1.50 (& I lost $$ on it). She is now NARU'D.
posted on April 10, 2001 03:19:45 AM new
Nope - I leave them when deserved and hope for the best! I have a couple retaliatories - 2 from the same bidder under different names in my early days (ruined a couple of my days but had no effect otherwise). Factual again is the key, I leave something like - Disappointing, no contact or payment. NPB & FVF requested. If I check Vrane - often those negs have been left for are now naru...so I feel it's worth it.
posted on April 10, 2001 04:41:54 AM new
Did I read you right, Morgantown? No negs for NPB's?
It's on account of business practices like yours that these people are ripping us off left and right. I can't see that a certain bidder has received a NPB warning, but I can see feedback from another seller saying he or she didn't get paid. It gives me an idea of what I can expect from that bidder. Gives me an opportunity to cancel their bid up front if I decide I can't afford the risk. I've been NPB'd to the tune of several hundred dollars. Might have avoided it if it weren't for other sellers' cowardly business practices like the kind you describe in your post.
Jeez, it's not like you're being asked to chase drug dealers off your neighborhood corner, just leave a factual comment regarding the fact that somebody didn't honor their bid.
I'm sick of hearing the "it'll affect my business" whine. That's crap. If somebody negs you as revenge, you merely have to attach a reply that says "This person failed to pay me and is retaliating with a lie." Everybody understands that.
posted on April 10, 2001 05:20:47 AM new
I have no problem leaving negs for NPBs who either never contact me or give me a line of excuses. So far I have about 400 positives and no negs, retaliatory or otherwise. I give the buyers ample time to pay or at least respond - I give them at least three weeks, sometimes I let them go right up to the 45 day limit for filing NPBs. I work with the buyers who seem to have a legitimate excuse. By the time I completely give up on a buyer and leave the neg, they are either already NARU or will be within a couple of days - for some reason, my deadbeats tend to screw over a number of sellers at one time, and those FVF claims pile up fast.
posted on April 10, 2001 05:37:47 AM new
Afraid? No. But...
I don't neg buyers who deadbeat me. I apply for my fees back or sell to the next highest bidder. The reason is that one never knows if this is a first time event or a pattern. If it's a pattern, the person is eventually NARU. It takes enough time to file the NPBA, then keep track and file the FVF request. The time it takes to then neg the person is time I could spend selling.
I haven't had to yet, but I would neg a seller who ripped me off. I've only left a neutral (ships w/in 48 hrs of paypal really meant, "I'll ship when I get around to it." ). I bust my hump trying to be honest in my descriptions, and have refunded all monies the two times I made an error in my descriptions. I've also shipped all my items on time except 5 (all in the same disastrous week), so I guess I'm harder on sellers.
[ edited by sadie999 on Apr 10, 2001 05:39 AM ]
posted on April 10, 2001 06:37:34 AM new
The feedback system only works if negatives are left for NPBS. Negs should be used judiciously but when someone does not pay and has been given plenty of time beyond the 10 days I allow (usually I will not neg until 21 days) then a negative should be left. I do check feedback and do not sell to people with negs for not paying. I have received about 5 retalitory negs over 2 1/2 years with a rating of almost 2000. I have actually had good buyers write and say they left an extra good positive because of the jerk who left a retalitory feedback. Besides what kind of buyer would not buy beacuse you left a negative for those who did not pay? Do you want that buyer? I do not.
posted on April 10, 2001 06:37:49 AM new
I have never left a neg for a deadbeat and I never will under the current feedback system
Am I afraid to neg deadbeats? No. It's just a sound business decision.
Negs do NOTHING to hurt bidders. Zero. Zilch. Nada. They can easily just abandon a tarnished account and start all over as a fresh-faced newbie.
Negs do hurt sellers however. I will never jeopardize my business by leaving a neg for a deadbeat when the neg has no lasting negative impact whatsoever on the bidder. It's the old risk vs. reward decision. Under the current feedback system it's pointless to neg deadbeats when the seller is the only one with anything to lose.
posted on April 10, 2001 07:08:50 AM new
I was never afraid to tell the truth...and if a neg was the truth, I posted it.
However I DID receive negs for every single one I gave.
It has never bothered me to have them on my feedback, as I felt it was the correct thing to do.
posted on April 10, 2001 07:21:37 AM new
I happen to agree with Morgantown & Dubaysdman 100%.
I've left negs, but gave up it as a bad habit.
And Spaz, there's nothing cowardly about it, it's simply a business decision.
I file a NPB warning & collect the FVF.
If this supposed deadbeat makes a habit of not paying, and other sellers do the same, they'll be removed from the system soon enough.
And Spaz
If somebody negs you as revenge, you merely have to attach a reply that says "This person failed to pay me and is retaliating with a lie." Everybody understands that.
That may be true, but only if the potential bidders take the time to scroll through umpteen hundred pages of feedback. My guess is most don't, and some bidders simply see several red marks & move on.
Why risk losing even one potential bidder for the good of the so called community?
The only community I'm aware of is me,myself & I.
Sorry, but my business & my family come before you, or anyone else.
posted on April 10, 2001 07:33:46 AM new
Agree 100% with spaz and loosecannon and the few others who WILL leave neg fb....It is a must! And I am grateful to the other sellers that do so that I can have a preview of what to expect from a bidder.
I wouldn't like myself very much if I didn't give a damn that someone was out there burning other sellers, and took part in perpetuating that kind of behavior!
posted on April 10, 2001 07:49:07 AM new
reddeer and all.
Why risk losing even one potential bidder for the good of the so called community?
I see sellers--terrible sellers (by my standards anyway), with 55, 70, 110 and more negs, and these people sell like crazy. Check it out for yourself. Many have bad fb for slow or no shipments, bad merchandise, outright thievery, you name it.
Do these people have a problem selling? NO.
A couple of retaliatory negs isn't going to hurt anyone. But I see no point in beating my head against the wall on this issue further.
There are two different camps on this and it'll never change.
[ edited by loosecannon on Apr 10, 2001 07:50 AM ]
posted on April 10, 2001 08:34:35 AM new
I have left negatives before but decided to stop. I'm not afraid to leave them, I'm not spineless. I'm not worried about retallitory negs...in the few negs I've given I have never had one in return. The closest I've come is a "neg" neutral. I have a few negatives myself and it doesn't seem to affect the bidding on my items, so I know there is nothing to fear if I get an occasional negative.
I stopped because when I examined my motives I realized it was being done out of anger...anger that I got stiffed. Making business desicions out of anger seemed stupid. Giving a negative to "punish" the buyer seemed pointless.
Leaving it to warn others also seemed pointless as I believe most buyers who deadbeat are not habitual about it. From my own experience of leaving a negative, a number of times the payment arrived the same day (or the next) after I left the neg....and I had waited weeks for payment to arrive plus I had sent a reminder first.
I pretty much stopped giving negatives around the time ebay instituted the NPB system. I will, on most occasions, use the ebay system after I have recieved no response from my own reminder email. If the deadbeat is habitual he will soon be NARUed as he racks up the black marks from me and others asking for our fees back...so the "community" is protected from the game players.
I have very few deadbeats and think it has a lot to do with my attitude. I'm not hardnosed about the buyer paying within 10 days. I give my buyers plenty of time to pay, I don't threaten them, I don't question their excuses (I don't even THINK they may be lying). I accept what my customer says at face value...and I sympathize with them. I realize that deadbeats are a fact of internet commerce and I don't sweat it.
I have never cancelled a bid from a bidder with a overall negative feedback (ie..-2 etc). I don't check up on my bidders feedback profile.
And I don't expect other sellers to see it my way...nor do I feel they are wrong and I'm right.
If that makes me a jellyfish with no spine then I guess I will happily continue slithering along....so far being spineless has worked out pretty good
posted on April 10, 2001 08:44:17 AM new
Hey Dennis
Being afraid to neg is baloney. People think the world is la la land where every day is sunny and everyone is nice. If a seller deadbeats, they should be negged on day 10 when they collect their FVF. Both should be done absolutely every time. This would clear the deadbeats from eBay in short order.
Retaliation is not as fearful as a deadbeat who doesn't face the consequences and is left to continue his damage.
posted on April 10, 2001 08:52:18 AM new
Not afraid at all here! I've left 29 negs in 2 years. All for NPB's - I also always file on them. I have received 2 retalitories in return. One is NARU now and just reading her feedback says it all. The other has 21 negs and keeps getting suspended and coming back, her suspensions never seem permanent. And I will continue leaving negs for those who don't pay!
posted on April 10, 2001 10:01:03 AM new
Loosecannon
Yes, I see those sellers as well, but they aren't selling the same kind of merchandise I'm selling, and they don't have the types of customers I have. apples/oranges tomato/tomoto
I've also been doing eBay long enough to understand that for every azzwipe buyer, there's an azzwipe seller not too far behind.
I could honestly care less what the last handful of sellers had to say in regards to their transaction, and I treat each custumer of mine with the same amount of respect, negs or not. I also would never cancel a bid from someone with neg feedback, even if I did check before the auction had ended, which I seldom do.
I've seen sellers leave NPB negs because the high bidder:
1. Failed to contact them within 3 days.
2. Failed to get payment to them in 10 days or less.
3. Refused to send payment after the sellers TOS changed AFTER the auction was over.
4. Sent a form of payment that the seller failed to mention would not be acceptable
etc-etc-etc-etc
I've dealt with "supposed" deadbeats that turned out to be GREAT customers who were simply new to eBay & had the misfortune of dealing with an azzwipe seller.
Hell I've seen sellers leave negs within hours of the auction ending, for no other reason than they felt the high bidder took a "tone" with them. Total morons.
I get the impression some of you feel we live in a perfect world, and in that perfect world ALL sellers are always right.
Sorry, but in my experience it's all the heavy handed azzwipe sellers on eBay that have caused the NPB process we now have to all live with. So if you want to bellyache about the process, keep that in mind.
Like Amy I've had very few problems with bidders on eBay, and part of that is because I'm every easy to get along with. I bend over backwards to please the customer, and so far it seems to be working out very well.
