eventer
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posted on May 2, 2001 02:30:45 PM
shrouds????
I'm trying to picture this one!
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triplesnack
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posted on May 2, 2001 02:58:14 PM
"You are more then welcome to open a McDunalds, just don't think of capitalizing on any other of the 5000+ trademarked terms, images, lettering or colors." - jrb3
Think again! I've recently been reading a great book called No Logo: Taking Aim at the Brand Bullies by Naomi Klein and she talks about McDonald's as well as many other corporations. To quote one paragraph:
McDonald's, meanwhile, continues busily to harass small shopkeepers and restauranteurs of Scottish descent for that nationality's uncompetitive predisposition toward the Mc prefix on its surnames. The company sued the McAllan's sausage stand in Denmark; the Scottish-themed sandwich shop McMunchies in Buckinghamshire; went after Elizabeth McCaughey's McCoffee shop in the San Francisco Bay Area; and waged a twenty-six year battle against a man named Ronald McDonald whose McDonald's Family Restaurant in a tiny town in Illinois had been around since 1956.
[ edited by triplesnack on May 2, 2001 02:58 PM ]
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ashlandtrader
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posted on May 2, 2001 03:25:01 PM
touchofeurope--
Saggy Chic! God I love that! :0)
Unforunately I can also relate to it a little bit.
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sNowyEgreT
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posted on May 2, 2001 03:26:09 PM
McShabby Cheek 
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smw
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posted on May 2, 2001 03:53:44 PM
Packer: It is my understanding that Shabby Chic, (if it means anything at all), refers to "Old Money Threadbare".
A Back Bay Brahmin once told me, "One does not buy furniture and things, Dear. One HAS furniture and things". Meaning that you inherit and use the same stuff that your Great-Great-Grand Mother used or had.
So when you buy "Shabby Chic" it is supposed to be of excellent quailty, old and threadbare or ratty, and look as if it has been in your family for generations.
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Zazzie
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posted on May 2, 2001 03:58:00 PM
Soggy Sheik
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autumnmoon
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posted on May 2, 2001 04:03:59 PM
Hi All,
I have a question
I don't sell that much shabby chic so I have not a lot to go on, But in a lot of cases by the time a trend has reached the masses through corporate NEW and Mass produced items
(As in Ashwell's product line) that the trend is already starting to fade? One design trend was that country look a few years back you know the stuff with the hearts and the ducks and such. By the time all these companys were mass producing these items no one really wanted it anymore, and now you see this stuff at garage sales and thrift stores and still nobody wants them.
So my question is have you seen a decline in sales or lower prices on these shabby chic items from lets say a year ago or 6 months ago. I thought this may tie in to this vero problem If they don't want you to use the term Shabby chic maybe its time to change the name of it. If no one is allowed to use this term for vintage type stuff and they only want it used for selling there mass produced product then wouldn't the term then become associated with the NEW & more than likly overpriced stuff. Maybe a dumb question but I was just curious.
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abacaxi
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posted on May 2, 2001 04:21:34 PM
Overpriced .... I found a genuwhine Shabby Chic brand comforter ON SALE for $299 (reduced from around $450+) so they are hardly talking the same market.
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touchofeurope
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posted on May 2, 2001 04:25:19 PM
If prices go down on those items we will be "Shabby Cheek(s)" indeed.
Seriously, I can't understand, she should be flattered everyone uses the name since it helps her name recognition and thereby helps her push her stuff - it IS a different type of item, and her sales can't be suffering, that I am sure of!
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autumnmoon
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posted on May 2, 2001 04:35:31 PM
HMMMM, Maybe that's why they are all of a sudden getting upset over use of this term. If her items are already being reduce to try and Move it her product line can not be doing that well. Just A thought!
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brighid868
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posted on May 2, 2001 04:42:12 PM
let's see if I remember the 'lifespan of aesthetic trends' from my college merchandising class.
first, a small number of people create an original look (whether in fashion, home decor, jewelry, etc.) Often they are ridiculed for the look because it goes against previously established trends. Early adopters (people who are on the cutting edge of fashion and technology) buy or re-create the look for themselves. Early adopters are usually residents of New York, Los Angeles, or other large cities where change is anticipated and 'the new' is welcomed. Prices at this point are usually high and the merchandise is difficult to find, often available only at boutiques and specialized stores (which many people are hesitant to enter due to feeling 'out of place'---early adopters, by contrast, LOVE to have all the attention for wearing/owning something new/unique). As soon as the early adopters have fully accepted it, both the original makers and the copycat factories ramp up production and make modified versions of the same item, toning it down a bit so that the mainstream buyers will accept it. At this point it's available but the market isn't saturated yet. Usually around this time, the original makers are on to designing something else, looking for the next big hit (their money is made at the beginning of a trend) while the knockoff factories will spend the next six months saturating the market with cheaper and cheaper versions of this item (overseas manufacturers make their money near the middle of the cycle) until every Walmart & mall in middle america is flooded with it and people no longer feel it is scarce. At that point markdowns will begin and the factories will begin unloading the merchandise to swap meet dealers, discounters, et cetera, recognizing that the trend is waning. Swap meet sellers and discount sellers will proceed to sell cut rate versions of the item for another few months, because they make their money in general at the end of the trend. At some point it will not be worth selling and excess stock will be dumped or given to thrift stores. And the cycle begins again.
I was interested in resale back then so I asked my professor about selling used items and he said that antiques and other used items follow a different market pattern because they have an entirely different demographic. We never got into ways that that market differed.
I'm sure some aspects of the Shabby Chic trend are over, but the way I see it is that in general, it fills a middle ground between antiques and thrift stores for a lot of people who like the look of older, quality items but don't want to buy their stuff from either antique stores (maybe perceived as too uppity, NOT BY ME, just thinking about people I have known & their shopping habits) nor from thrift stores (maybe perceived as too lowbrow, again, NOT BY ME). I personally think it has the earmarks of a classic style. I think the new stuff Ashwell sells in her shops is meant to complement the look of older items that she suggests you hunt for.
also, it is not at all uncommon to file for trademarks or service marks years after you've begun using them name. plenty of people do not have the several hundred $$$ it costs when they first start out and even fewer actually think their businesses will be so successful that someone else would want to copy it. I would say 3 years is completely normal.
as well, a vigorous defense is an intentionally vague concept. I have done some research for my old boss in this area and I have never heard vigorous defense defined as strictly as going after every single usage that ever comes to your notice of your service mark/trademark being abused. if you were trying to claim usage is OK based on Shabby Chic not defending their trademark vigorously enough by not *prosecuting every single person infringing on that trademark* you better hope you get a really senile judge because his definition of vigorous is likely to be different than yours.
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Microbes
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posted on May 2, 2001 05:29:22 PM
I used to date a Shabby Chic.
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abacaxi
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posted on May 2, 2001 06:48:59 PM
Microbe ... Did I date you in the 70s?
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Zazzie
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posted on May 2, 2001 07:14:07 PM
Shaggy Chicks
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Microbes
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posted on May 2, 2001 07:22:26 PM
abacaxi The 70's was when I was dating, In the 80's I got married and had kids
You weren't in West Virgina in those days where you???
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zeenza
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posted on May 2, 2001 07:46:22 PM
After seeing these events unfold, I am thinking of giving this all up and going to Clown College.
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undercovers
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posted on May 2, 2001 08:44:40 PM
you know what is scary about this; there are several sellers/buyers who use the 'shabby chic' word as their user id's....the only thing that makes them different is their internet provider address after their name....ie) [email protected] (only an example)
wonder how many of those are out there and how o racheal and the attorneys will deal with that?? i know of at least 2 that have that shabby name but with different extensions....i guess we should go ahead and kiss them goodbye
[ edited by undercovers on May 2, 2001 08:46 PM ]
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neeceebaby
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posted on May 2, 2001 09:02:03 PM
I guess it would be safe to use the terms Shabbily Chic, Chicly Shabby, Shabby and Chic or something similar?
I agree her line of housewares is way too expensive! Especially after writing books touting the beauty of imperfect time worn items. I think it loses some of it's Zen when you buy new "old" items. Just my 2 cents!
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roadsmith
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posted on May 2, 2001 09:16:41 PM
I just wonder, if I used shabby chic (lower case) would she be as upset? Nothing to stop us from putting it in our descriptions IF we have something like that?
And. . . . what is VERO? I've never known.
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reddeer
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posted on May 2, 2001 10:22:56 PM
This is interesting.
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=76150876
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mcbrunnhilde
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posted on May 3, 2001 01:55:35 AM
Just checked out the search using quotes so the phrase would be unseparated:
shabby chic - 5,154 items
shabby chick - 6 items
shabby chik - 1
shabby shiek - 3
shabby sheek - 3
shabby sheik - 3 (but it's really part of a book title)
I can't think that these people are trying to circumvent VeRO, I figure they just don't know how to spell. One of these also had "midevil" in the title when they should have used "medieval," so I rest my case.
(Hmmmm...just did another search and there are 24 auctions with "midevil" in the title!!!!! I'd tear out my hair at people's stupidity, but I'd be bald in no time!
Without eBay, I might have a real life... 
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kudzurose
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posted on May 3, 2001 05:56:43 AM
It seems odd to me that she would let things go this far before she took action. My guess is that she's entered into a contract with some manufacturer or marketer whose lawyers are more concerned about this kind of thing, and THEY are the ones trying to stop it (or at least accumulate a stack of evidence that they've been trying) in case they have to go after another manufacturer for using the name.
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brighid868
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posted on May 3, 2001 07:39:56 AM
the threee servicemarks i was involved in for my old company were a nightmare to get through the system, even though no one else wanted those specific marks. The procedure involves lots of paperwork (copies of examplar cards or stationary plus multiple forms to be filled out in a very rigid format.) On two out of the three marks we were refused in language just like the one in reddeer's link....as time went on and we hired an attorney over this we found out that a great many of them are refused on first try....he was surprised we had even gotten one through successfully the first time. Basically each servicemark (same for trademark) is handled by a federal attorney individually whose job it is to research the mark...some are strict some are not so strict...eventually we found out that combinations of words have to be marked by their combination not by the individual words to be passed thru...like we had tried to get something like "Delhi Express Imports", (name changed to give example) and they had objected because a) Delhi is a place and can't be marked alone b) someone already owns Express as a trademark and C) imports is too general a term and can't be marked. Well we only wanted the words used in combination, in other words we would not sue a shop called Delhi Imports or a restaurant called Delhi Express. When we got an attorney to do papers indicating such they backed off and approved the mark used in combination. I am sure Shabby Chic has/is/will get just as much scrutiny as our tiny little business did....if they have been refused that's really just par for the course....
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abacaxi
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posted on May 3, 2001 09:12:44 AM
I found out that MERVYN'S has a merchandising agreement with Ashwell.
And found a PCWorld column from 1999, stating there were over 1,000 auctions on eBay with the term "shabby chic", so the ignored it for a long time.
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amy
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posted on May 3, 2001 11:17:10 AM
abacaxi...but we don't know how many of those may have gotten a "cease and desist" notification from ebay's VERO program or her attorneys. Just because they were listed doesn't mean she didn't do anything about them.
We also don't know if the link Reddeer gave was for her application or someone else who was trying to get Shabby Chic, Inc. The earlir link made it look like she got her trademark registered in 1993...and the site I found on the internst for her books and products (which seemed to be her site) just used Shabby Chic (R) with no Inc after it.
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tomwiii
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posted on May 3, 2001 02:16:59 PM
I have a FLABBY CHEEK (2 actually) and VERO is welcome to KISS EITHER!
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undercovers
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posted on May 3, 2001 03:31:17 PM
oh my god...i just looked at the seller that had the name that has been veroed...they are now gone and so are their auctions....this is ridiculous
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markshum
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posted on May 6, 2001 12:52:43 PM
Wooo Bundy!! Some of you are making me feel bad. I've been the Shiekofshabby on ebay for about 2 years even though I sell mostly deco and retro.
I have been thinking of changing my handle to "rare" and registering with Vero.
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PaladinLvs
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posted on May 6, 2001 01:32:02 PM
Look here, all us sellers can get by this if we try hard enough. I just listed a Dutch auction for 100 "Shabby Chicken" hats today. So far I haven't been VeROed!
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CAgrrl
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posted on May 6, 2001 02:06:05 PM
Paladin- now if you can convince all the bidders that the "Shabby chicken" is THE HOT new keyword phrase, you'll be set.
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