posted on May 19, 2001 02:41:14 PM
Well, according to his terms no seller could actually recive a negative as long as the item doesn't get damaged. So why bother with a mile long TOS? A seller could ship it out 60 days late and never email the person, and just get no feedback. Very generous terms, yes, stupid logic for a TOS, yes.
posted on May 19, 2001 02:45:43 PMthis buyer is stating that he only wants something we already agree is reasonable.
If you already agree that what he wants is reasonable, why would he send the message at all? It desn't make sense. You can never know whether what the bidder wants is reasonable or not until AFTER you get the email. And if the bidder has a demand that you consider unreasonable, wouldn't you rather know that BEFORE the auction ends? You keep stating that because this seller's terms are "forgiving", there is no problem. There is indeed a problem.
Telling a seller what is expected of him after the auction is over is no different than sending your TOS in your EOA. Your TOS may be perfectly legitimate in the eyes of the bidder but that fact doesn't make it right to send your TOS in the EOA.
posted on May 19, 2001 02:49:24 PM
"...if i buy a $1 item at a store, i get the same service as if it were a $100 item. unless it would be something marked down and 'as is' or 'no return' marked on it."
Yes because you're paying retail for the $1 item, and the store only paid .15¢ wholesale. Let's not compare apple and oranges lest you make a fool of yourself.
posted on May 19, 2001 02:57:45 PM
I personally would have replied to his e-mail, something to the effect of "Have you ever had a problem with a purchase from ME? If so, I would have liked to know, but assuming not (since I always ship within 1 business day of receipt of payment, I'll assume you have had a bad experience which you feel you need to take out on others. You will receive the same courteous service from me as any other buyer who pays in a timely manner. If you will accept some constructive criticism, please don't assume the worst, take a look at the sellers feedback comments before you assume anything, then if it appears they are not a trustworthy dealer please do not purchase from them!"
posted on May 19, 2001 03:00:12 PM
Next time I take an airplane flight in coach, I'll demand that I get free alcohol beverages, and tell the attendant that the people next to me have to be moved so I can stretch out like the people in first class.
When I get a deluxe room at a hotel I'll have to demand I get a butler like the guy up in the penthouse.
After, I deserve equal treatment no matter what I pay. Next time I go to McDonalds, I'll scream up to the counter, "yo, server, can I order now?"
posted on May 19, 2001 03:01:52 PMIf you already agree that what he wants is reasonable,why would he send the message at all?
the obvious answer to that would be, because he's encountered enough sellers who don't think this is reasonable, and/or it hasn't been the service he's received. so he's making a statement about it in a, imo, tongue-in-cheek manner. seems to me he's someone who would already abide by any reasonable seller's tos. he's just pointing out the same goes for sellers meeting any reasonable buyer's expectations.
all righty, i've already spent waaay too much time here today. off to work!
posted on May 19, 2001 03:02:42 PM
kittykittykitty:
>what if the item this buyer perchased ended at $30, $50, $100? and if the seller put it up at $1, hoping to attract buyers, when it's really worth $30, 50, 100, they shouldn't be penalized for expecting what *most* of us agree is basic service
I only do $1 auctions if:
A. I don't have much money in something
and
B. I think it will be a hot item.
I was wrong once, on a big, bulky, hard to pack item. Buyer sent his (little bit of)money, I packed it up, and shipped it. I got feedback that said:
" Recived product, On time, Pack so well it could go to the Moon,Thanks A+A+A+"
and a nice email thanking me for honoring the auction.
This buyer didn't feel slighted in the least by a lack of a email saying "I got your dollar, your stuff is on the way".
posted on May 19, 2001 03:12:57 PM
"...he's encountered enough sellers who don't think this is reasonable, and/or it hasn't been the service he's received."
1 bad experience out of 100 purchases according to this buyer. That's a successful ratio.
posted on May 19, 2001 08:20:25 PM
dubya: we'll simply have to agree to disagree. You think I'm wrong, and I think you're wrong. Most bidders have certain standards for an ebay transaction and in 99.9% of cases they do not communicate it to the seller beforehand, either before the auction ends OR after the seller sends them his EOA. Yet no one here *regularly* agitates for a buyer to send them their "TOS" before placing a bid or calls for Ebay to discontinue allowing buyers to give feedback. Apparently then, you're not bothered when a buyer has standards, and uses them AFTER you send the package to leave you positive or negative feedback---just when they tell you about them in an e-mail after they bid but before you send the item out.
Control games sellers play:
1) bidders are allowed to have no standards
or
2) bidders may have standards but must not tell me what they are because I don't like it when people tell me what to do
or
3) bidders must clear all standards with me prior to placing a bid on any of my auctions. Afterward, no standards are acceptable even if they are reasonable because they did not follow the rule.
Do these really sound like pro-active customer-oriented attitudes?
posted on May 19, 2001 09:20:52 PM
WOW! Well said, brighid868!!!
I really find it distressing that there are so many "high control" sellers here, but it may be explained in a recent study that has shown that the same personal qualities that make a successful drug dealer are the same ones that are seen in many entreupeneurs in legal businesses. Scary!
The way I look at it:
1) The customer is MY boss or employer - without them I make no living.
Many here have the mind-set that they are there own boss and no one else is "the boss of them" - they left regular types of employment to get away from bosses, after all!! Sorry folks, but the great seller is one who accepts the fact that, in there decision to go into services or retail, they traded in one boss for thousands. Those who refuse to accept this should NOT be dealing directly with the public in a service or retail setting, but rather behind the scenes, producing something, then letting someone else deal with the public and sales.
2) The customer that buys something for $1.00 deserves the VERY SAME customer service as the one who pays $100.00! WHY?
Because the $1.00 buyer who is thrilled with the service may become tomorrows' $100.00 buyer. And don't scoff at this - I have seen it happen with my own customers over and over.
To treat each "level" of buyer differently is a "caste" system which is very short sighted.
In my PERSONAL buying experiences, the stores or shops or on-line retailers that treat me like gold for a small purchase ARE going to see me return for more purchases, and very likely higher priced items. That is exactly how I START with a new seller - I buy a low priced item, so I can see what the transaction will be like before putting down any major money! I KNOW I'm not the only one who does this.
Like Brighid868 said, though, I don't believe that the controlling sellers will ever see eye-to-eye with the customer service oriented ones; the mind-sets are just too different. And for retail and service industries, one IS better than the other. I think y'all know which one I pick as the better mind-set.
posted on May 19, 2001 09:53:47 PM
OK, just for the heck of it...
How DARE this bidder presume to tell me what I should do in order to get positive feedback from him!!! The nerve! The unmitigated gall! Just who the hell does he think he is, anyway? A seller?
I'm the seller, and I set all the terms of the agreement. Not just how payment is to be made and when, and not just which bidders I will allow to bid on my auctions, but also under what circumstances I will leave feedback, if at all, and what type of feedback I will leave. These are my terms. And by bidding on my auction, the bidder agreed to those terms. He does not have the right to expect ANYTHING from me that is not explicitly stated in my terms. And bidders are not allowed to set their own terms about ANYTHING, even feedback.
I am free to leave feedback or not as I so choose, because I am the SELLER. And I am free to TELL bidders that I will neg them to kingdome come if they don't contact me within three business days, get payment to me within ten days, and send payment in the form I specify. Bidders, however, are expected to leave positive feedback under all circumstances. And they most certainly have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to tell me under what circumstances THEY will leave feedback for me.
Letting this bidder get away with this would set a dangerous precedent for others bidders thinking they can exercise even the smallest bit of control. Sure, it may start out innocently, with one bidder saying that he will leave a negative if I decide to keep his item. But once you let one bidder think he has ANY POWER WHATSOEVER, you have opened the door to a slippery slope and will have to burn your bridges when you come to them like a bull in a china shop. I mean, if you let THIS bidder get away with it, maybe the NEXT bidder will want the right to say he will leave negative feedback if I misdescribe the item, or pack it so poorly it arrives in a zillion pieces. Pretty soon, you'll have bidders expecting me to go "above and beyond" the call of duty and do silly, useless things like having the courtesy to let them know when I ship their item. Yeah, right -- as if!
Nope, we have to nip this in the bud before any bidders think they have any rights whatsoever. As we all know, only we sellers have the right to leave negative feedback, and therefore only we sellers have the right to THREATEN negative feedback if we don't get things exactly the way we want them. For a BIDDER to threaten negative feedback if he doesn't get things the way HE wants them, well, that's sick, twisted, and just plain wrong.
My name is eBay Seller, king of kings: Look on my TOS, ye bidders, and despair!
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Gee -- this is kind of fun once you get into that mindset. I've always wondered what a power trip felt like....
Regards,
Barry
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The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on May 19, 2001 10:15:14 PMMy name is eBay Seller, king of kings: Look on my TOS, ye bidders, and despair!
ROTFL!!!!!
Seriously, though, even if this guy pushes your buttons, what's wrong with him having feedback standards? We ALL have them! For example:
"Hmmm...this jerk took 10 days to mail my widget...I think I'll give him a neutral."
"She held my check for 10 days and that info wasn't in her TOS...she'll get a neutral from me for that!"
"This idiot tried to charge me 50 cents for using PayPal! I feel like negging him, but I'll probably just leave a neutral."
The fellow obviously ran into some nightmare sellers in the past, and he really is quite reasonable. His long harangue is NOT a TOS--he's just listing his criteria for considering a seller's feedback rating. Wouldn't you really rather have a customer who is fair and equitable in bestowing feedback (albeit a LITTLE anal retentive) than a deadbeat??????
C'mon folks, get real. I'd sell to him in a heartbeat, and thank him for his very sensible system so that other people who run into his bad sellers will be warned of their tactics.
posted on May 20, 2001 12:31:00 AM
A seller's first contact with a bidder should not contain threats of I'll do this or if you don't do that.
A buyer's first contact with a seller should not contain threats of I'll do this if you don't do that.
First contact should always be amicable, professionnal, respectfull and courteous. It's that simple.
Only and only if the actions or inactions of the other party makes you doubtfull of a positive conclusion should the tone be taken to another level.
There's nothing wrong with setting yourself guidelines for determining your feedback, but if you feel the need to present them to the other party you should present them in the most positive method possible. You can say I appreciate this and would be gratefull for that without specifying you will neg for a particular situation. There's no need to be pessimistic in the first email with someone. You don't even know the person at that point.
If you think this makes me a bad seller for thinking this, so be it. I can promise all my bidders that my first contact with them will always be amicable and courteous, regardless of the experience a previous bidder might have left me with. So what if the last bidder never sent payment after a month. It's not my next bidder's fault and he should not be mistreated for it. Bidder's shouldn't pass on the buck to their next sellers also. I can not recommend to a new bidder on eBay that this kind of negative email is acceptable at all in your first contact with someone. It will not achieve his goals of better protection for himself.
if you pay for a delux room, you're not paying for all the bells and whistles that go with the penthouse, so it really doesn't make sense that you'd get what you didn't pay for, now does it? ditto coach vs first class.
"yo, server, can I order now?"
i most sincerely hope you never say this in any restaurant
1 bad experience out of 100 purchases according to this buyer. That's a successful ratio
now here you make a good point! i'd forgotten that, and would agree 1 out of 100 is a good ratio. of course i've been merely speculating on the reasons this buyer sent out this email. he's got to have *some* reason for it, and it has to be because he's fed up with some sellers' attitudes. maybe he's read too many snippy tos's. who knows.
btw, my new theory is that the originator of this thread wrote it him/herself, just to have some fun with us
microbes,
" Recived product, On time, Pack so well it could go to the Moon,Thanks A+A+A+"
LOL, great feedback!
i wasn't ragging on ya for not sending out shipment notices. i meant it when i said what i do works for me and what you do works for you. i like you heck, i'd even *buy* something from you!
i choose to send them out for two reasons: 1) as a buyer, i appreciate knowing approximately when i can expect my package to arrive, and assume my buyers do too. some i know do appreciate it, because they've written to tell me so. i'm sure there are others who don't particularly care one way or the other. 2) it gives me a record in my outbox of when i've sent the item. so should something go awry, at least i know when i sent it out.
posted on May 20, 2001 06:34:41 AM
What each of us is today is a result of our past experiences. The buyer stated that they'd gotten some hassles from a seller that didn't like a neutral so they are making their expectations clear to the seller.
Sellers set their TOS based on prior experience. I've never bounced a check, yet many sellers won't take them or will wait for it to clear before shipping. I've always paid promptly, but some sellers place a "must be received with in x days" statement into their TOS. I've only left positive feedback and never hassled a seller, yet some sellers won't leave it until the buyer does because a previous buyer was difficult.
It seems to me that these are not TOS, they seem to be an explaination of the buyers expectations as to service and the feedback that may be left for the service given. Believe me, every buyer has expectations as to service and the seller will be judged on those expectations. This buyer just wrote it down and shared it with the seller while the seller still had a chance to meet them. The seller doesn't have to meet them, but they will know why they got neutral or negative feedback if they don't.
It may be only a dollar to the seller, but to me it is the gadget that I wanted, bid on, won, and properly paid for. My investment in the gadget includes shipping, mo cost, stamp cost, and my time. I expect it to be given the same priority for the seller as the $100 dollar gadget someone else won. If the seller doesn't send small items in a timely manner, I won't have any way of knowing they will send a big ticket item with any better service.
posted on May 20, 2001 06:59:05 AM
From years of experience, if this is an auction sale, I wouldn’t consider even acknowledging his/her ridiculous TOS. I have found people like this love to go on and on and on with their experiences and demands. I’d fill the order as I normally do, and he/she could leave whatever type of feedback they chose. I’m here to sell, not comply with a buyer’s rules. As a successful seller, obviously we do our best to fill every order in a safe business like manor, but I don’t have time to spend with endless communications from a nut.
On the other hand, when I get such a ridiculously demanding customer on our web sites, I kindly suggest that they might be happier buying from someone else. I have learned from experience if they are so demanding before they even get the item, that normally there will be some problem after the fact, and I’d rather not be bothered with the sale, so I just send them on to someone else.
I had a woman the other day that simply would not go away. She was attempting to purchase an item illegal in her state, and got all bend out of shape because I wouldn’t sell to her. I finally sent her links to 4 other web sites selling similar items – let her bug them for a while.
I’m on line to sell – not counsel or spend endless hours communicating and hand holding the mentally unbalanced.
posted on May 20, 2001 07:31:01 AM"I have found people like this love to go on and on and on with their experiences and demands"
You're right, and I am so sick and tired of seeing sellers who go into great detail explaining how they will leave negative feedback if the bidder doesn't do exactly as they demand. No communication within 3 days? Negative feedback! No payment within 7 days? Negative feedback! Payment in any form other than a money order? Negative feedback! I have learned from experience if these sellers are so demanding before they even sell the item, that normally there will be some problem after the fact, and I’d rather not be bothered with the sale, so I just go bid on someone else's stuff.
Oh, wait -- were you talking about bidders? Gee, never mind....
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on May 20, 2001 08:02:34 AM
barb, I totally agree with what you said about control and 'trading in one boss for thousands of bosses'. That's exactly what I feel happens, and what I suspect many forget.
barry, thanks for the laugh on your previous post. i laughed so hard espresso came out of my nose. "Letting those bidders get away with this would set a dangerous precedent for others bidders thinking they can exercise even the smallest bit of control" was priceless. I wonder how many of our beloved 'the seller is always right because they are the seller' AW members THINK this, but wouldn't come out and say it because they KNOW it sounds tooo control-freaky....
posted on May 20, 2001 04:40:30 PM
This bidder is doing NOTHING wrong!
How many of you sellers put your terms in your auction, and in your WBN? 98%? 99%? Why can't the bidder put his feedback TOS in his email? It just might make the seller think twice about throwing his item into a box with no packing material....
I think this is wonderful! A bidder who actually thinks about why they are leaving a certain feedback, instead of just leaving the feedback in a fit of rage....
NO FEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted on May 21, 2001 02:12:23 AM
"My name is eBay Seller, king of kings: Look on my TOS, ye bidders, and despair!...I've always wondered what a power trip felt like...."
lol, Barry.
I've noticed that the majority who post here are sellers, and i have yet to sell anything.
IF i was a seller, i'd want to know how to avoid negative feedback. You never know EXACTLY what a buyer thinks about when faced with the feedback screen....
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I dont know why they'd drop a bomb on this place, be a heck of a waste of a bomb.-Roy Lee (October Sky)
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->not augustleo on eBay...just came up with it!<-
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posted on May 21, 2001 07:55:46 PM
Get a load of this: I am thrilled to see all the negative TOS on eBay. Really, it gives me a major competitive advantage that I can literally take to the bank.
posted on May 27, 2001 09:34:02 PM
This is old news, but I thought I would provide an update for all who contributed to this discussion! I just received a positive feedback from the buyer. He was very cordial throughout the entire transaction. He must have been burned a few times and that was the reason for his treatment of the transaction different from what I'm used to! Thanks to all who contributed to this spirited discussion!
posted on May 28, 2001 04:09:27 AM
I love the way the man thinks. Obviously he is fed up with all of our TOS!! Hey, we can dish it out, but can't swallow it ourselves? I think it is absolutely hilarious. I would have to commend him on a witty rebuttal! You bring the balls and I'll bring the bat!!
Let's not compare apple and oranges lest you make a fool of yourself.
