posted on May 27, 2001 07:13:34 PM new
She should do some research on this seller then. Like I said earlier - is the seller using the same tags in other auctions? Does she have NEGS saying she is selling NWT items without the tags? What kind of feedback does this seller have? Did the seller sell more than 1 of this exact item?
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? The buyer is automatically assuming the seller has cheated her, without looking into it a little further.
posted on May 27, 2001 07:17:43 PM new
>>> pull a tag off another item, get a swiftack gun and stick it on. Voila!<<<
O.K. where can I get the swiftack gun?
My family needs tags on every gift,
And some of the outlets where I shop dont have tags
Or they take them off at the register,
So I could use one
(do you have one for sale?)
posted on May 27, 2001 07:39:15 PM new
The tags are very important on designer or higher end clothing items.
In one of my stores, I sell brands such as: BCBG, Bisou-Bisou and Betsey Johnson.
My customers will not pay the prices these designers command without the tags. I got in a batch of Betsey Johnson skirts. One of them was missing the tags. All of the other skirts sold within a week. The one that did not have the tags was still unpurchased. I had several women try it on and love it, but they wanted a discount since the tags were missing. I called up Betsey Johnson and they immediately sent me another skirt with tags and accepted the one without tags in exchange.
Also tags from some desginers let the consumer know they have a genuine article and not counterfeit. I would not give a high end piece without the tags. The recipent may think it is counterfeit.
Since you paid $100 for the item I am assuming it is a designer piece. The tags should be attached as the auction stated since the tags can affect the value of the clothing.
posted on May 27, 2001 07:40:03 PM new
Well, maybe I'm weird, but I do leave the tags on clothing when I give it as a gift. Lots of tags have the price on the lower portion and you can either cut it off or tear it off if it's perforated. I like for the recipient to know that it's unquestionably a new item.
As far as this seller goes, I think she shot herself in the foot with her initial rude response. Perhaps if she had been a bit more polite, the buyer would not be questioning if the item really is new. I know that it would make me wonder.
posted on May 27, 2001 07:45:17 PM new
Executivegirl,
Thanks for the link,
Of course I searched for it on eBay,
Didnt find one,
But I never thought of going to
A "real store"
Thank you
Laiochka
P.S: Aghr I agree with you 100%
(hope I spelled it right
posted on May 27, 2001 08:09:41 PM new
I sell a great deal of designer items as gifts.
If it doesn't have the Brand Tags, I won't buy it cause I can't sell it.
As a gift or for personal use, the tags serve for authenticity and first quality.
If a label is sliced, marked, or for any reason not intact, I mention it in my item description.
My boo-boo as a case in point on NWT v. NWOT:
COACH leather belts.
Four identical items (size, color, style).
All Brand New, Never Worn, First Quality, with COACH leather fob tag.
Three of them also had the COACH paper hang tag.
The belt minus that piece of paper went for 40% less than the others!
IMHO, bidders who are looking for NWT are not expecting "like New" or NWOT.
Also, IMHO, a seller who sells this type of high end widget is fully aware of the value of using NWT terminology.
Finally, I can't even begin to tell you how I feel about the "leave me alone" attitude, so there is no "finally".
98% seller, 2% buyer.
posted on May 27, 2001 08:30:53 PM new
Here is a guess. Could the seller have lied about the original retail price of the item? Perhaps when it sold for $100 in the auction, she removed the tags so as not to make the buyer feel terrible about spending more than retail?
Or else perhaps the tags had a greatly reduced clearanced price on them, and she removed the tags because the buyer spent $100 and she didn't want the buyer to see how much she had spent to purchase the item?
I dunno - just a couple of ideas.
I suspect the seller intentionally removed the tags and her story is a fabrication.
If I purchase an item NWT, I do expect the tags to be on the item when I receive it. The buyer received a misrepresented item.
posted on May 27, 2001 08:39:04 PM new
If I buy something stated MWT, then I expect the tags to be there.
I don't see much difference in this situation and selling something MIB, not including the box, then telling the buyer, "what's the big deal, the item is mint & you'd only throw the box away anyway."
posted on May 27, 2001 08:51:57 PM new
eventer:
Agreed. Good analogy
"Tags" are not only price tags from Nordstrom's, Bloomingdales, etc (which the clearance price can be marked off and orig price showing) but are also Brand hang tags which may or may not show the suggested retail.
Even if the seller fluffed about the store it was purchased at or any pricing, most higher end items and clothing also have brand tags from the Company (Diesel, Lucky Brand, Calvin Klein, even Levi's have their own tags in addition to the tag from the Department store or boutique they were purchased from).
posted on May 27, 2001 09:01:31 PM new
A professional seller would apologize for the problem and either refund all the money including shipping or negotiate a lower price if agreeable to customer. It's obvious this seller is a neophyte and doesn't understand the basic rule of business and that is the customer is always right.
In this case the customer is truly correct. The item was misrepresented on an issue that was important enough to be specifically mentioned by the seller (NWT). It's not the seller's responsibility to interpret what's important to the customer.
The way I see it the seller can handle this either of 2 ways: (1)The right way and maybe end up with positive feedback and a happy customer or (2)fight it and end up with a chargeback, possibly loss of merchandise, negative FB , an unsatisfied customer and a complaint to Safe Harbor.
As the customer I would first email the seller and explain exactly what I wanted, why, and by when I hoped to receive satisfactory treatment. If no satisfactory response within that time I would notify seller of my intent to file for a chargeback, leave appropriate FB, and notify safe harbor (accompanied with all previous email with headers).
posted on May 27, 2001 09:06:32 PM new
[i] What happened to innocent until proven guilty? The buyer is automatically assuming the seller has cheated her, without looking into it a little further.
Mistakes DO happen. [/i]
whats to look into...if the tags aren't there she didn't get what she bought
yes mistakes happen and it is up to the seller to make it right
just playing with the html tags
[ edited by skip555 on May 27, 2001 09:08 PM ]
[ edited by skip555 on May 28, 2001 07:41 AM ]
posted on May 27, 2001 09:17:35 PM new
another thought....could the seller be using these tags on each and every piece of clothing they auction, because the original piece did have tags and the other pieces did not but are new, but without tags? Like maybe just laying the tags on the clothing when photographing, or selling the same type of item using the original picture that did have tags? If this is the case, and tags fetch a better price, (I do not sell clothing much but if they have tags, the tags, minus my price I got them for is cut off)then yes, the tags should have been included simply for the reason that using them in the description fetched a higher bid as opposed to a description that would say, "no tags". I guess I would do a search on this product (completed auctions) and see if the same pic came up for this seller, and also check out the feedback.
posted on May 28, 2001 10:24:47 AM new
I agree that the tags on clothing are very important. If I'm giving something as a gift, I leave the tags and either cut off or mark off the price. But the tags ensure that the item is new.
The seller is behaving very unprofessionally. If I were the buyer, I would try emailing one more time but that would be it. Then I would initiate a chargeback.
One more thing - did you say you paid through PayPal? How about trying their *insurance*. Granted, I haven't heard good things about it but it *should* cover this.
posted on May 28, 2001 10:53:29 AM new
Why are tag so imporat though when giveing them as a gift ???
When you give a gift it is supose to be because you want to give the gift.
The only real reason I can see too make a case out of this sale is if you are not just giveing a gift but trying to inpress and dazzle someone with a high price name brand tag.
you can tell when closthing is new or used by the smell of the sizeing not washed out of new clothes is very strong.
I agree the seller should not have use new with tag in the title or description if the item didnt have tags but if you can look at the picture and it apears like the same item you bid on then it more then likely is.
also if the item has nevr been used you should be able to look where the tag was attached and still see the hole in the materal where the tag was attached maybe even a peice of the string or plastic the tag was attached with.
Im sorry you dont pay any price $100 or other wise for clothes because they have tags you pay the price because you like the the look of the clothing your buying.
one of the only exseption to this is buying shirts where you pay to make your self walk advertizment like tommy or old navy. http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
posted on May 28, 2001 11:17:23 AM new
IMHO........
The sellers reply to you was TOTALLY unprofessional! I am solely a seller of clothing (1100+ positive feedback with 1 neutral and no negs) and NEVER advertise NWT if it does not have the tags attached! I too have had instances where the tags may come off (it happens!) but I always include them with the purchase and send a little note. That sellers reply alone deserves a neg! I buy as well as sell on Ebay..........I try and treat my buyers as I would like to be treated as a buyer........that is just a rule of thumb for me.
I personally think that the product was not as advertised.......and her response solidifies the fact that she could care less about her error.......much less trying to rectify things!
I also agree with the other remark that if you return it she may refuse it. If that should happen then you may want to take things a step further.
Buyers solely rely on a sellers description! Beside the picture.......that's all they have to rely on! Its sellers like that that give all sellers a bad name!
I personally take offense as it is transactions like that which can (directly or indirectly) affect sales for the good sellers out there!
posted on May 28, 2001 01:45:24 PM new
dman3 -
The difference is that WITH tags, the buyer can be reasonable certain the items were not "gently used" already. When items have been worn, there can be nasty surprises waiting at the dry cleaners, as old spills show up.
Would you buy a "new car" (assuming the odometer could not be checked) if the dealer stickers were already gone from the windows?
posted on May 28, 2001 02:48:53 PM newThe only real reason I can see too make a case out of this sale is if you are not just giveing a gift but trying to inpress and dazzle someone with a high price name brand tag.
If someone pays good money for a designer item. It should be exactly as described with tags. If not it won't dazzle the intended recipent. It will make them think you are giving them a cheap counterfeit item.
you can tell when closthing is new or used by the smell of the sizeing not washed out of new clothes is very strong.
Wrong. Most designer clothing that I get into my store has no odor. The few items that I get that have an odor it is a nice scent. Not like sizing.
I agree the seller should not have use new with tag in the title or description if the item didnt have tags but if you can look at the picture and it apears like the same item you bid on then it more then likely is
How do you figure? Most sellers of designer items on ebay often have more than one of the same item and just use the same photo over and over.
also if the item has never been used you should be able to look where the tag was attached and still see the hole in the materal where the tag was attached maybe even a peice of the string or plastic the tag was attached with.
Wrong again. I have yet to get an expensive piece of clothing into my store that had tags attached in a way that would leave any sort of a hole or mark. When a woman is paying $200-$300 for a dress, they are not going to buy it if it has noticible hole of any sort, no matter how small.
m sorry you dont pay any price $100 or other wise for clothes because they have tags you pay the price because you like the the look of the clothing your buying.
Wrong yet again. Someone may like the look of a Versace dress or some Gucci boots. However they are not going to pay designer prices unless the proof is there to show they are the real deal. I may like the look of a car. I will not buy it unless, I know it has the proper papers and everything is as it should be.
posted on May 28, 2001 03:01:39 PM new
Only with the tag on can you be sure it wasn't worn, even once.
Also, the tags fell off? Hello? I have to go LOOKING for things to GET the dang tags off. Even if the tags fell off, the plastic goober should still be there since those things have to be cut off. Even if the plastic goober wasn't used, the safety pin with the string should be there.
posted on May 28, 2001 03:05:00 PM new
I have had tags from clothing items get snagged on something and come off. The plastic thingies and everything have come off.
And not *all* clothing has safety pins & strings on them.
posted on May 28, 2001 08:32:17 PM new
I've never been able to get a plastic goober off without cutting it off or biting it off, or ripping a big hole in the fabric. That's why they make them t-shaped. Maybe they just make extra strong goobers down here in the South.
posted on May 28, 2001 09:33:07 PM new
Anyone care to bid on my Stickley settle? I guarantee it's the real deal, even though the decal seems to have fallen off somewhere...
What about my Parrish print in original frame? The darned dustcover fell off, but I guarantee it's all old and original!
The point is, the seller included the NWT label in the description because doing so helps authenticate condition/origin/age, which, in turn, raises bidder interest/confidence and results in a higher sales price.
The seller promised NWT and should deliver NWT. Period.
Let *her* find the tags, buy the tag gun and reattach them. Then she can relist the auction -- truthfully this time. Bet she doesn't, though. Going through all that trouble is a lot more work than just making up (lame) excuses.
posted on May 28, 2001 09:43:20 PM new
As the owner of a screen printing company, let me assure you that NWT is a very important clarification. The tags assure the authenticity of the item. Sure, we can duplicate almost any shirt BUT we cannot duplicate the tags. The tags will protect a buyer from purchasing a product that was not obtained from a legitimate source. That product might not be the same quality as that of the original manufacturer. Hence the need for the tags. Take a look at alot of the new NHL, NFL, and NBA screen printed shirts. Many have hologram tags now to prevent such an occurrence. To the manufacturers it is not about the loss of profit so much as having inferior items in the marketplace with their company name on them.
Besides, if the tags had fallen off during packaging, don't you think the seller would have noticed them lying there after she taped up the box? I have had that happen to me - and searched until I found the item the tags belong to.
A neg is in order here. AND if the tags are really important to you, contact your credit card company to find out the steps you need to take to obtain your refund. The item was advertised NWT and delivered NWOT. You did not receive what was listed.
posted on May 28, 2001 10:02:11 PM new
The seller is VERY unprofessional and emotional. Not a good way to sell upper end items on eBay. I sell clothes and if you bought it with the tags and they weren't there, then you should have tags or a partial refund.
posted on May 29, 2001 04:42:49 AM new
Personally I hate tags,cause everytime I walk out of the store with clothing under my jacket the damn alarm goes off
posted on May 29, 2001 04:52:00 AM new
I am frustrated with clothing sellers who state clothing is new with tags -- but they are referring to the fabric tags inside the garment!
Unfair competition. I found out by reviewing some photographs and asking sellers directly that this is what they "meant" -- fabric tags were not cut out or destroyed (like the Victoria's Secret auctions).
Ugh!
I do have a question though. NWT is a terrific title keyword search. Do items new in bag with tags on the bag count as NWT? Or do you have to say NIB (New in Bag)? NIB is not a popular search in clothing, so I am curious what other sellers would do.
posted on May 29, 2001 05:58:21 AM new
I am astounded that any seller here has the opinion that ADVERTISING the clothes as NEW WITH TAGS and then sending it WITHOUT the tags is OK.
ESPECIALLY the clothes sellers.
If you advertise it as NWT, it DURN WELL BETTER be sent that way.
Anything else is false advertising.
Personally, I believe (mostly based on the seller's response) that the seller was lying.
And as for tags falling off during packaging... THat gives me a mental image of the seller running through the house with the clothes on a hanger, snagging on everything, then getting laid on fresh tape and yanked off. Then dropping on the floor and getting stepped on while being picked up. Then engaging the dog in some tug-of-war.
Because I just can not imagine tags falling off any other way!
bounce