posted on May 31, 2001 04:45:56 PM new
One of the most popular complaints I've heard re: fees by SELLERS is the inability to pass Paypal/Billpoint fees on to the Buyers.
There is a work around this per Ebay's PowerSeller Newsletter. Here is a summary:
Add an amount to cover those fees to your S/H amount. Offer a discount of the same amount off of the FINAL BID PRICE. The net effect is a passing on of the fee to the buyers, but this cash discount method, apparently, is a valid way to pass on the fees.
I don't charge my buyers for using those services, but I know some sellers want to, so I thought I'd pass that info on.
My S/H charges cover postage and packing supplies with VERY little left over for my time. Whatever amount I charge above that is apparently not a problem with my buyers - no complaints and 72% repeat buyers.
posted on May 31, 2001 05:36:38 PM new
If ''PADDING'' the shipping fee to cover shipping costs is wrong---then anything anyone does to cover costs is WRONG, that includes the sale price.
posted on May 31, 2001 05:53:33 PM new
I've been charging a fixed rate for media items, regardless of the number of auctions won. I can honestly say that I'm getting higher bids for many items and I'm getting more multiple purchasers as a result. Sure, sometimes the postage charged doesn't cover the actual postage I have to pay the PO, but the higher bids I'm getting and the multiple purchases make up for it IMO.
I've had buyers recently tell me how nice it is to see a reasonable rate. Of course, reasonable is in the eye of the beholder.
I guess the bottom line is, if the rate seems overly high to you and you can't quite get past it, then don't bid. As much as you might like to, you can't force the sellers to change their shipping rates. So vote with your dollars and take them someplace else. That's about all you can do.
posted on May 31, 2001 05:56:12 PM new
Hiya Zazzie!
Well, frankly, I more than cover my direct shipping costs with my flat $4 s/h fee. After I pay the postage, and my kids, and pay for supplies, I probably take away 50 or 60 cents.
So I guess that's "padding." But to me as a seller, I'd prefer to call it "profit." If I do 300 items a month, that's an extra $180/month, which is half a car payment.
If a buyer feels better having me tell them that it covers my BillPoint/PayPal fees, then fine. Or that it covers my listing fees. Or that it pays for my postage meter rental. Whatever.
Bottom line, as always:
The total S/H should be clearly disclosed by seller.
If the buyer feels that their bid + S/H is reasonable, then bid. If not, then pass. And the marketplace will determine which sellers are charging too much for handling, as the buyers will vote with their pocketbooks. That's how a free market works.
posted on May 31, 2001 06:09:10 PM new
Hiya Mag Guy !!
BJgrolle---I just took a peek at your auctions and saw your $2.00 flat rate shipping....but I don't really see an increase in bids or sales. Your finished auctions with bids were less than 50%. I looked at one auction that had five books in it--it finished at $1.50 with one bidder--so the total paid to you would have been $3.50.
45¢ to Ebay, lets say 50¢ for the books, and at least $1.75 for books up to 2 lbs--but maybe it reached 3 lbs and would be a bit more.
So for all of your work of finding, buying, listing, storing, packing and mailing your net profit was about 75¢---and that is not taking into percentage of auctions that never got bids--as that would come out of the profit too. I didn't notice if you took any payment services--but if you did--then you are making pretty close to 0¢ on many of your sales
So, what point are you trying to make? I posted something that I thought might be interesting or helpful, or if not, it could be ignored, no offense taken if so.
Instead, you try to pick apart my sales, or lack of them, as you try to make it sound. Do you know how my sales were last year at this time? Or at any time prior to the closed auctions that you're viewing? Most likely not.
Since last Thursday, the 24th, I've had 53 sold items and 31 unsold items. That makes for 63% sold, which is actually a little better than usual and certainly better than you're quoting. Sometimes it does take more than a couple of times to sell something, as most of us know.
The auction that you're choosing to use as an example is not typical of most of my auctions and that's obvious to anyone who cares to dig a little deeper. Sure, I might have made nothing on that sale, but so what? Is every sale a winner for everyone?
I notice you're not mentioning all the sales for the last week that sold for much higher than $1.50 and those that had multiple bids. How about the auction that ended at $51.00 with 13 bids? $15.50 with 5 bids? $53.00 with 13 bids? $10.49 with 2 bids? $23.62 with 7 bids? I also had several end with 1 bid, and those prices ranged anywhere from the low end of $1.50 (since you like to use only that number) to $9.99, with an average being around say $4.00 - $6.00.
Yes, there are some sales that wind up not being profitable. But most of them are, despite your stating otherwise.
Hey, I don't mind if anyone wants to look at my closed auctions for themselves. But to come here and make false statements and try to make me look like I'm a stupid seller who doesn't know what I'm doing is really totally uncalled for! I really don't know what there was in my post that caused you to come here and try to make me look bad.
You don't know what I pay for my inventory, you don't know what I pay for my shipping supplies, and you don't know why I even do this. So, without the whole story, it's quite wrong to make a judgement call and it certainly wasn't your place to do so.
And, I think I'm doing quite well, thank you very much. Sorry that your opinion of my business seems to be rather low.
posted on May 31, 2001 06:59:52 PM new
And I see that magazine_guy is getting into the act here. Of course, another incorrect assumption. I am not a he.
Strange, the incorrect assumptions that are flying around here tonight, isn't it?
And strange that this is turning into a "pick on BJGrolle" thread for absolutely no logical reason at all.
Sorry, people, I'm done playing this stupid game tonight. Time for bed.
posted on May 31, 2001 07:18:40 PM new
BJ, I left so they had to have someone else to pick on. Yessiree they sure did. Too bad people can't have a discussion and disagree without the sarcasm coming forth. Disagreements are what makes this world go around and if you can't agree to disagree, then maybe people had better start getting off this merry-go-round.
magazine-guy if you read the posts, ALL of the posts, you will see someone else said they were disabled. I was making a comparison. I do my own packing so her claiming she was disabled is really of no consequence to hiring people. Many ebayers, etc are disabled. It means nothing to me. I can still think. Why I brought it up twice was because someone on here felt it necessary to tell me that I lived close to them and to get a job in a carpet mill. Wonder if she could at my age with a heart condition? That was why I brought it up twice.
As far as the lady with the disability who hires folks, honey, I wouldn't work for you. I don't work for people who feel it's beneath them to pack their own merchandise to ship. Why not offer your "girls" .50 a package? I'm sure they'd love it. (BTW, Georgia has a fairly large state line when it comes to Tennessee. Chattanooga is another 3 hours from me.) North Georgia extends from Tennessee/Alabama/North Carolina/South Carolina state lines. What makes people think I'm referring to the extreme western north GA? LOL!
I wasn't picking on you- just making light of the unfortunate circumstance we all find outselves in from time to time when an individual auction doesn't do as well as expected.
As to my assumption that BJ was a man.....I plead guilty. Should have known better!
posted on May 31, 2001 07:51:30 PM new
OK, OK, I stayed up a bit after my bedtime snack.
mtnmama,
You know, I don't really get picked on enough, I think. Maybe that's why I take it so hard. Nope, no full moon until June 6th. Maybe we should stay off the boards then.
magazine_guy,
Hey, thanks, you're OK. And you're right in the point you were trying to make. (Which I seem to have missed completely.)
That's what I get for trying to read the boards after 10 PM. Can't understand a word I'm seeing! http://bjgrolle.freehomepage.com
posted on May 31, 2001 08:05:02 PM new
BJGrolle---I wasn't picking on you---you made a statement regarding your shipping policy/therefore the statement is up for scutiny---and I made a response with the information available from the link you provide.....and yes you appear to have some quite successful auctions, and I am glad you are doing well.
But this shiiping cost arguement is so old...and so boring.
posted on May 31, 2001 09:07:30 PM new
Okay - so you can't accept an offer of a truce. I can buy that - what I would like to know, however, is am I supposed to pay these girls 50 cents a package in addition to their hourly wage or just the 50 cents a package?
You run your business the way you want to and I'll run mine the way I want to. There is no reason for you to criticize me personally. I simply made a statement that I tried to cover some of my expenses and then described what some of them were. YOU are the one who decided I was some sort of horrible person who paid a decent wage to hard working girls who need the work and are thrilled to get it. You also proved my point yourself that I can't cover my costs by charging a 50 cents a package handling fee.
I hate to break your bubble here, but I'm not 'too good to do my own packing', neither am I too good to work 7 days a week 18 hours a day, either. If I recall correctly, when I first opened my business 14 years ago, I worked 8 hours a day at my regular job then drove 14 miles to my new antique mall to pull nails out of used lumber (because we couldn't afford to buy new lumber), then helped my husband build peg board walls, helped put two coats of paint on them and then drove 15 miles home and fell into an exhausted sleep at 1:00 a.m. only to have to get up at 5:30 a.m. when the alarm went off to do it all over again. I didn't get to rest on weekends either because on Saturdays, I got up at 4:00 a.m. to go to work. So, you see, I'm really not 'to good to do my own packing'. For you to get that out of my original post is simply unbelievable.
Just because I've decided that my time is better spent trying to liquidate my merchandise and hire someone to do the packing than to do it myself, is no reason for you to decide I'm a bad person. You have no right to tell me otherwise or to attack me personally because I do. It's my business and not yours. You have every right to disagree with the fact that I charge a handling fee, but you have no right to attack my motives any more than I have a right to attack yours, which I haven't done. I also haven't said you were too good or too bad to do anything. In fact, I didn't even post a message to you at all until you attacked me.
So, I hope you've enjoyed your day on the boards. (I can tell you don't have any merchandise to sell right now, since you would be selling it if you did instead of hanging out here). Me, I still have a stock room full of merchandise that I need to sell so that I can pay my shippers $7.00 plus an hour to ship it. You go on to bed and sleep tight knowing you have a full day of fun ahead of you tomorrow hanging out on the boards. Me, I have work to do so you won't find me here.
This is one big waste of my time. And, I'm turning off the email option, too. Not interested, don't care, etc. etc.
posted on May 31, 2001 09:40:07 PM new
This is all IMHO. I as a seller charge a flat rate of 1.85,as I can use padded envelope, up to a certain amount of merchandise, then at a certain weight I just raise it by maybe .50 or .60 . The finny thing is,for about 3 months, as I don't go to the PO myself. and usually send my son, I really never took the time to check out the PO costs and was loosing about .25 cents on my previous charge of 1.00.LOL! So I did raise my shipping,but don't make any money on it. I do however understand when a seller needs to use a large box, bubble wrap, peanuts, tape etc, that they do need to issue a reasonable handling cost,that's common sense.BUT WHEN I BID.... I avoid sellers who go out of their way to overcharge on shipping! An item I know fits in a mailer and they charge 5.00 shipping and don't combine. why would I bid on their items?I love the second item only, 3.00 additional shipping when the entire package weighs a few ozs? I have had no complaints on shipping, ever , and just don't bid on items from seller's I feel are making more money on their shipping as opposed to their product.I like to be fair as I am a seller also,I always add a little extra money to a seller if I pay via paypal to cover the cost as I know how the fees add up. I just wonder if seller's who pad their shipping really know the amount of business they loose. I know I would buy more!
posted on June 1, 2001 01:41:31 AM new"BUT WHEN I BID.... I avoid sellers who go out of their way to overcharge on shipping! An item I know fits in a mailer and they charge 5.00 shipping and don't combine. why would I bid on their items?"
Well, I can think of a couple of reasons:
1) Even with the $5.00 shipping charge you think is too high, the TOTAL PRICE of the item (bid plus shipping) is a BARGAIN that you can't get anywhere else.
AND/OR
2) The item is something you CAN'T FIND anywhere else, at ANY price, and you want it.
There are probably very few sellers who wouldn't keep the shipping charge close to "cost" if the item being sold is bringing a good price. In fact, many sellers will drop the shipping charge COMPLETELY if their profit margin is very high on something, or if the bidding ends at a relatively high price.....
But how many sales fall into that category???????
The **overwhelming** majority of items being sold on eBay now are at rock-bottom, bargain-basement prices (both new goods AND antiques/collectibles)---many BELOW wholesale levels, and many at 75-90% off retail price.
The seller has to buy most of his goods for peanuts just to break even. Add in eBay fees, "service" fees (CC services, ISP, photo hosting, auction launching, postage metering), wear and tear on equipment (computer, monitor, printer, scanner, digital camera, automobile), supplies (postage labels, tape, bubble wrap, padded mailers, boxes, markers, paper, software), and COUNTLESS hours spent doing everything necessary to list and monitor the auction, and complete the sale....and you'll see that you lose money on shipping even when you add a $1.25 or so handling fee.
Why do buyers complain so much about paying an extra $2.00 shipping to a small volume seller (on a BARGAIN purchase), when big companies like the USPS and eBay Premier charge OUTRAGEOUS shipping fees???
posted on June 1, 2001 05:27:20 AM new
"Padding shiping charges is wrong" Define Padding-ebays mistake.(are they looking at our books?) Is it morally wrong to make a profit on land, money and time you have invested in a business? What is the rate of return on the space that all the boxes and peanuts take up in my garage? Anyone with any financial background know that money invested, time and risk determine your profit. Is it a sin to make a profit? Try living in California when the lights go out. Gasp! Supply and demand don't work there because of the politics. Most of the people that whine about shipping costs sound like they are from California where it is a sin to make a profit! (Power company example). By the way isn't eBay in California? The last state in the Soviet Union must be California. I buy items that cost 55 cents to ship and I get charged up to $8.00! I am happy to pay the 8 bucks to save myself a trip to the mall. Paying people is purely a determination of the going rate. Mcdonalds here pays 9 bucks an hour to teenagers. Rent for a crummy apt is $1,000 for one bedroom. There is no public transporation, you must have car to get to work. Anytime anyone whines about shipping probably hasn't read the TOS which most of us clearly spell out and they always have the option to NOT bid.
posted on June 1, 2001 05:57:07 AM new
Well, here goes my "two cents" worth on the issue of S/H.
I sell as well as buy on EBAY, but I would never bid on an auction that costs 70+ cents to mail and yet the seller is charging $4.00. I don't mind the seller charging a small amount to cover the costs, something under $1.00. I always refund money to my customers if they overpay by $1.00 or more.
I saw an ad last night on an item I was going to bid on, but then I read further and found out she charges $5.00 handling above the actual price of postage. Needless to say, this really irritated me and I did not bid. No one else had either.
Yes, my time is valuable, but all priority mail products are free so leaves me with the cost of bubble wrap or "peanuts".
I would NEVER charge $4.00 or $5.00 for handling. In my opinion it is morally wrong and my conscience would not let me do it.
posted on June 1, 2001 06:36:03 AM new
Kellco....Why is it morally wrong? You make it sound so evil! Are we going to hell for making a return on our investment in self shipping?
posted on June 1, 2001 06:48:56 AM new Now back to the topic of padded shipping!
I have a question for all of you that think I'm wrong in my statement that padding shipping is wrong. Do you file taxes for overhead? That means supplies, postage, computer, telephone, etc? I do which means that I'd be charging my customers for something which is tax deductible for me. That's unfair in my estimation.
I wouldn't dream of charging my customers for the gas it took to go to the post office, because truthfully, folks, don't you do anything else while there? Do you have personal mail you may want to drop off, buy stamps, go to the grocery store or dept store or where-ever while you're doing errands at the post office? Why should your customers pay for this? Do you stop off and get something to eat or drink? You might as well charge them for a new pair of shoes every so often, because you do walk on them to get into the post office and it does wear and tear on them.
Does this explain my position better? I think it's wrong because it's my opinion No definition needed. What you think is wrong, I may think is right.
edited because I no longer argue with people that want to bring me down to their level. I believe in freedom of speech and opinions are part of it. And ubb is not my friend.
[ edited by mtnmama on Jun 1, 2001 06:52 AM ]
posted on June 1, 2001 07:10:16 AM new
I was looking at auctions for small die cast cars. I was amazed that most sellers charge about $7.00 to ship. I have send hotwheels for less than $1.00.
I won't bid on auctions with overly inflated shipping--it makes me think the seller is sleezy.
posted on June 1, 2001 07:58:41 AM new
Tax-deductible does not mean you get 100% of the amount back in your pocket from the government. You get whatever tax percentage you pay--if you are in a 30 percent tax bracket you get 30% of your cost.
Most people know this--but it is amazing how many people think otherwise---I'm constantly getting people commenting on this fact to me.
posted on June 1, 2001 08:10:12 AM new
Perhaps we may benefit from a course in accounting and finance? Just because it is tax deductable doesn't mean it didn't cost you money after you paid your taxes. I gather cost of goods is not a deduction either. Why make a profit at all!
posted on June 1, 2001 08:36:44 AM new
I have never charged more than the exact P.O. charges me to send an item, in fact I've undercharged buyers bigtime, and ate that.
I also have overcharged on accident, and I'm another that will refund the overcharge.
But lately I've done a lot of thinking on this. I do get Priority boxes and tape free, however I buy tons of bubblewrap and peanuts (new) at my expense. That adds up, even when I buy them at a 'wholesale' place. I also buy clear packing tape, I tape over the labels with clear tape, just for added protection against rain etc.
I wouldn't know what to charge for any handling fees, and I pack myself. Lately running 80 auctions a week (not right at the moment, only 40 now) and it gets to be a lot of peanuts and bubblewrap. Been doing this for 4 years.
Hey Magazine Guy! I've bought from ya, and I didn't mind paying your shipping charge
I've paid a lot of shipping charges that had the 'handling fees' in, as long as its stated in the auction.
I avoid the ones that charge extra if you use a credit card, as I believe this is illegal, and that one is absolutely one I would never charge for.
posted on June 1, 2001 08:40:44 AM new
"Like I said, if you lived near me, I'd jump at the job! One can't make that kind of money without traveling more than 50 miles a day to the outskirts of Atlanta. Come on down! I'll pack for ya!"
If this had not been said, I wouldn't have made any reference to the Dalton jobs. Your condition didn't seem to make any difference at the time, nor does it seem to make any difference with all the errands you have to do. Who knows, you might find a new income packing in your area for all the other Ebayers, just drop by and pack'um all up while you're out.
posted on June 1, 2001 08:53:29 AM new
"I can deduct the cost of shipping supplies on my tax return therefore it is immoral to charge my customers for this" (not a direct quote of anyone in particular...just a paraphrase of comments made over the years on this subject)
Don't the sellers who make this statement have any business knowledge at all? Don't they live in the real world...or do they only exist in the fairy tale world of the "free" internet?
profit=selling price-ALL costs
Tax deductions only means you don't pay taxes on your costs, you pay taxes only on the profits. Tax deductions are not free money from the government to cover your business expenses.
If we follow the logic of the statement I quoted above then the seller should not charge the customer for...
1) the cost of the merchandise...it is tax deductible
2) the wages paid to employees..it is tax deductible
3) the cost of shipping supplies...it is tax deductible
4) the sales tax the seller pays to his state for items sold to customers in his state...it is tax deductible
5) the costs of the computer and printer...it is tax deductible
7) the cost of gas and maintenence of the automobile used in the business...it is tax deductible
8) the cost of the ISP, electricity, telephone used in the business...it is tax deductible
9) the cost of rental on an office...it is tax deductible
In fact, since any expense related to the business is tax deductible, then the ETHICAL seller will only charge the customer the PROFIT on an item.
So the next time one of these ETHICAL sellers lists an item that they paid $10 and that they have other expenses of $5 for...and which normally sells for $25...they should do a buy it now price of $10 (the profit on the item). If the item isn't bought with BIN but instead someone bids on it, the seller, being ETHICAL, should end the auction and sell it to the first bidder for $10 (his "profit" ).
The remaining $15 is covered by the seller because it is DEDUCTIBLE.
After all...charging the customer for any of the "deductible" costs would be unethical!!
[ edited by amy on Jun 1, 2001 08:57 AM ]
