>If you as a seller dont accept the services payments filter any mail from them.
We've had a few "you've got money" email's from paypal, and I never thought of doing this, but it is a good Idea.
Funny thing, PaypalDamon NEVER responds to these threads about the UNWANTED "payments", and the trouble they cause by accepting payments in peoples names that do not use their service. When paypal takes the customers money, they assume they have paid for the auction. Then you have a can of worms. Why don't they just stop taking payments like this?
posted on June 9, 2001 06:58:29 PM new
Yes I have always found it amazing that they dont respond in these threads. Reason is simple, there is no response.
We posed questions to damon time and time again, I even wrote my top 10 questions. The response was email me at [email protected] to which I put why not answer it here in public and all the other folks in the threads wanted to see the answers as well, all I got was a one line response "We are the merchant" which clarified it all for us. They are just like us basically, a merchant. We accept cards direct including Amex & Discover which want zero to do with it because they take issue with people signing off rights given them as well as consumers allowing a "merchant" third party to resolve disputes pertaining to their money, their contracts and their cardholders.
If you were a bank wouldnt you?
When paypal first deployed we were very excited but we did have some questions. Over a span of months we called them multiple times. We were placed on hold saying a manager will answer our questions. Followed by the phone being hung up shortly after. Call back, never heard of us. Ok, mistakes happen but not as a policy and thats how it appeared as everytime, same response, dial tone.
People can find all the information they want out in this world, just get on the tele and start making calls thats all.
Chase actually told us steer clear of the service completely and thats was/is? their card processor. In fact they forwarded us to a real card processor to get a merchant account.
This all stands true with the fee's debacles in other threads as well. We knew when they said "free!!!!" it would not stay free. There is no way they can make enough operating capital investing folks money that short term. SURE!!! If the stock market in tech stocks was the same as 2 years ago short term money was all over the place. Cant expect that to go on forever and its now been followed by the .bom in investments, especially short term.
The fact they went to 1.9% didnt surprise me, the fact they are now raising it to be inline with the rest of the card processing world is also no surprise. If Chase or Citibank or CSI etc. could do 1.9% and be profitable they would. End of story. Card processors and banks are war, business, but war ya know?
They hooked people in like fish, Give em $5, be free, anyone can take cards. Once your depending on it then what are your options? Flop around to others, change all your ad's, deal with all the buyers who were roped in?
Call it bait and shoot sorta.
If PP acted just like our normal merchant account we'd be signed sealed and delivered but the fact is they dont. They are "like" but missing in some pretty important areas like peoples rights and being informed of due process when problems do occur.
They just branched out global and thats more expense for them so rates again must climb. They are in the business of making money and growing and we can relate to that.
What we dont relate to is full disclosure so when a buyer or seller look into using such services the FACTS, All of them or at least the important ones pertinent to seller and consumer rights and due process are clearly posted. So people can make an informed decision. You wont see Barnes & Noble saying to any entity "Here, we are allowing you that level of control over our business and customers"... they'd be fools to do so.
A legal beagle told us if we were dragged into court for problems (say fraud) and we were asked why we used a third party payment service when we have our own merchant account we have not a leg to stand upon.
Again, I dont blame paypal for the problems created. For the damage done to eBay, sellers, consumers. They operate on TRUST just like eBay and thats very honorable. I can understand why they dont want the responsibility of liability of goods transfer so they dont do consignment. But since the consumer/seller (much more so the consumer) is taking a risk the very least I'd think they'd do is display such risks to consumers and sellers and how they are handled should they occur. Thats all. There stated statistics on chargebacks etc. is good, given the environment it could be ALOT worse. The fact is 95% of all eBay users are trustworthy and do the right thing and the service lives wholly basically on eBay transactions.
There is however that 5% that are bad sellers and bad buyers and they do happen frequent enough that it IS an issue. Since it IS an issue the right thing to do is let people know the facts, risks and policies and how disputes etc. are handled. Not just a "We are investigating".
The reason they send the Youve got cash email is the hope you will come and sign up and collect your payment. There is just NO WAY we are allowing a third party merchant free access to any of our bank accounts. Thats like handing the gas station attendent your card and saying "I trust you"... When in fact the terms of service are basically saying "Trust us, safe, fast secure" and at the same time having the user waive libel and granting arbitor of dispute status effectively sending the message "but we dont trust you or the sellers so sign on the dotted line". Would you buy a car that way? Eat in a restuarant that said here, sign off any claims in case you get sick and hurl or are hospitalized. No way.
Again to us it should operate JUST like a regular merchant account but they cant do that, they ARE the merchant not the bank and not the card processor. Its why the seller gets the fee's, they cant charge the buyer the fee's thats against the law. They are the merchant, they charge the card, they take the payment from your checking account what-all. When you get your statement it doesnt say "joes Antiques" it says the business who took the money from you, lawfully, thats who business was done with.
Does it surprise me the damon doesnt respond in these threads? Not at all as its easy enough to call a bank, banking commission etc. and get answers... So publishing in public that "this is how this works or is handled" means it better be that way or else they are in apoint of libel regardless of terms of service.
Sometimes silence is the only response that wont do damage.
Again, I respect what PP has accomplished and I've said it before, they are quality folks breaking all new ground and with that comes the problems. All we'd like to see is disclosure and we'd use it. We wont however use it when we are not informed of the facts as to how issues are handled. "We are investigating" means nothing. For all I know they are investigating the coffee machine and donuts waiting for people to "give up". We want real policies and real time frames and thats only sensible. Anyone or any business doing otherwise is simply an accident waiting to happen.
You wont see em' come in and say yep, its spam. or nope its not. They tend to let the crony's flame people instead. It IS spam. Now look at the zillions of sites on the net that require a log in to use them. AOL chat people cant chat unless some other folks are using instant messaging. They dont email non users and say "HEY!!!! Youve got chat!". Or eBay mailing non members saying, "Your auctions ended". Its an intentional practice done to attempt to get folks to sign in and that is that. So yes, its SPAM. Want to send me those mails ask me. I dont send something to them saying "Youve got mail!". I guarentee you if you sat there and sent off an email every hour to their support people saying "You got mail" with a joke in the message they'd be saying STOP IT STOP IT. Or, how about BidPay or Billpoint mailing every PP user saying "Youve got mail! Use us instead!" they'd instantly take that as a predatory conduct and file charges against the service. Yet, they do the same thing in interjecting themselves into transactions where the seller
is not a member. When in fact they should be saying, "They are not a PP member and cant be paid via the service". But this way they try and entice the seller to join and at the sametime they have the buyers money sitting there while they make money with it.
As I noted, I never even had thought of it. Here I am talking with an attorney about various things and all of a sudden he says "STOP RIGHT THERE!". They are charging peoples cards to send money to people who are not even members? They are sending unsolcited email to come get payment for a service that is never subscribed to?"... He said they cant do that. Its interjecting themselves and FALSLY charging a consumer into transactions they have no business being part of costing others time, access to money, etc. It borders on a predatory conduct according to him. We accept cards direct yet this consumer is allwed to issue us payment and is charged when we are not a member at all. So in theory thats trying to take business into THEIR hands rather than that of our card processor.
He advised anyone recieving such mail file complaints with the BBB as well as the state authorities and FTC so these entities can start getting regulation put in place so these various places get a rules set to abide by. If knowbody does anything then rules dont come into place.
posted on June 9, 2001 07:16:20 PM new
>Buyer unable to finish blow job".<
Well, Eventer stole my neg comment! [smilie]
Actually, I didn't have the nerve to say it.
It is the perfect neg. It is not to nasty, tells the truth and is entertaining as heck too.
Lab Rat 4 GMOS
[I think his check should be mailed back. He will probaby find cause for problems with the merchandise once he receives it.]
[ edited by labrat4gmos on Jun 9, 2001 07:20 PM ]
posted on June 12, 2001 10:19:56 PM new
Got a lady that paid for two items with a check, she says that because I don't use PayPal she is going to neg. me if I hold the check for the 15 days that it states in our auctions. She chose the wait by the way she paid, I didn't make here bid and I didn't make her send a check. the items she bid on are a deal at the price she is paying, about 1/3rd what they are worth, but to quote her I deserve a neg. because she finds the way I do business as bad "I have never bounced a check I all ways pay for my auctions. and I find this very bad way to do business" so I guess she feels that threatening me with neg. is a good way of doing business.
about 10% of my bidders seem to be challenged in some way, they can't read, or they don't comprehend what they have read, or of course they just didn't read it. which is also to say that about 10% of our auctions demand the most attention, not bad if your selling a car or an item worth a bunch of money but to close a deal for a common items that sells for around 10 bucks, give me a break. Some of these people just shouldn't be buying on line, we have a picture and a good description in every auction and a short as possible TOS, but sometimes it's just not good enough. don't get me wrong A question or two is fine and is always better to be asked before the person bids but we get about 50 questions after the auction for every question we get before the auction end.
you know I don't really care anymore. it just isn't as fun as it use to be, anymore I feel like neging every person that I have to send the EOA email to for the 4th+ time, I have one person that asked me to send it 11 times, yes 11 times, and they still never paid. Or every time you have to open a lengthy correspondence with after the close of the auction, again ask the question before the close. this person is at 8 emails for 2 item that I will make about 5.00 each on. I do answer all emails and I don't get nasty, I'm just venting here, but how many times should you have to explain yourself before you just loose it and neg. the person for being stupid?
I'm glad that I don't leave feedback when payment is received anymore, at least I'll be able to return the favor of the negatives. I know I'll probably still attract a few people that will say it is wrong not to leave feedback the very minute that payment is received, and you know something, they are wrong, of course that is my opinion. They probably haven't even noticed that I haven't left them feedback and that I can still neg. them if I want, two neg. on 80 some feedback will look a little worse than 2 more on 4600+, they will know I can still neg. them when I respond to their threats. For a user to make demands like this and threaten negative feedback the way they have they should be thrown off ebay.
posted on June 12, 2001 11:24:49 PM new
Actually I believe that any seller that does not take Paypal should be banned from ebay with a severe reprimand, plus the seller should be monitored night and day by the FBI to ensure that they do not sign up again for ebay under a different ID or attempt to sell using any other auction service. In addition to this the seller should wear an electronic ID collar so that every movement can be tracked by auction authorities. This is my opinion of the wannabe luddites and all others that can be tarred with the same brush and that will not accept paypal... thank you for watching, GT Dad
posted on June 12, 2001 11:35:43 PM new
whynot you are making a lot of assumptions that you propose to be the truth and then propose that readers here accept your assertions by definition as agreed upon fact when the fact is that your statements are based on your own opinions and your own opinions do not necessarily represent an objective analysis.
Yes Paypal had teething troubles when it began, and I have been with them since they began a couple of years ago. Most people (and I emphasize most) have had very satisfactory experiences with the service, just like most people can drive down the highway without being involved in an accident. You seem to assume that readers will accept your experiences as reflecting their own and this is a very dangerous thing to assume.
I have sold thousands of items on ebay and I have never had even one sour experience or even disappointing experience with Paypal -- okay so that is MY perspective and my experience, and I do not expect you to accept it -- likewise you are sadly mistaken when you assume that all others accept your point of view as taken for granted.
