posted on June 12, 2001 07:28:55 AM
The Washington Post has a story about this today. Says that listings run for 30 days then must be re-entered [and fee paid again]. I wonder if sellers will expect to sell within 30 days, or get tired of re-listing?
I don't recall it says that the items had to also be listed as an auction.
posted on June 12, 2001 07:32:37 AM
I'm as new to this as you are--just trying to interpret postings on the boards.
I don't think eGreed could charge both (tho it's always possible!) I think what you sell at auction would go under the auction FVF rules and what you sold for fixed price in the storefront would go under the FVF 1-5%.
I don't think it would be worth it just to have a storefront with only auction listings.It might pay tho if you have a lot of fixed price items they can buy immediately.
Should be kinda interesting to see what it will look like. The sample I saw where you had to pull up each pic did not impress me.
Remains to be seen if this makes auctions a thing of the past or even might increase them if storefront prices are high.
I spent a couple hours poking around the storefronts..... I know it's still being rolled out, but so far I'm unimpressed:
1. Looks like manually listing each item will take some time- like listing manually on eBay. They need an auto-import feature that will allow sellers to import current and closed auctions into inventory, complete with pics and descritpions.
2. Storefront listing offers only one non IPIX pic on the "sell" page; you can insert more manually along with other html goodies. They're pushing IPIX, understandably.
3. Strange logo resizing tool tweaks logos- needs fixing.
4. Max listing in the storefront is 30 days-- so you'd have to relist all your items every 30 days, and incur the listing fee again. That makes the whole proposition somewhat more pricey. Not clear at this point if they will have a tool that will automatically relist. They need it.
5. Hate the colors options. Most of the colors result in a dark color bar on the auction pages promoting the storefront- but the color bar obscures the text it was designed to highlight. Lighter color scheme options don't have this drawback.
6. Storefront items don't show in eBay search. Good for auction-only folks, bad for folks wanting to push fixed-priced storefronts.
7. Maximum 6 categories, and no sub-category flexibility. This will make it hard for many large sellers to organize a store without more categories and subcategories. This won't be a problem for some small sellers, though.
8. The storefront item pages look just like eBay auction pages. Confusing, I think....
9. Storefront includes your non-fixed priced auction items alongside your fixed-priced auction items, alongside your 30 day storefront items (I think). This will be confusing to buyers, I suspect. Storefront items DO look just like BIN auctions, but run for 30 days, and don't show the "end" date on the item page. So they are different than BIN's (which carry a max 10 days, and are no longer available once purchased). But so similar that they will confuse everyone.
10. The setup screens for the storefront has several optional text fields for the owner to fill out, but it wasn't clear exactly what they were for, and where the text would be placed on site. I suspect that at least one of those fields, asking what you specialize in, will be used for keyword search in some way. It would be nice to have some explanation as you fill out the form just how that text will be displayed on the storefront.
11. Very limited flexibility (at this point). Folks who are used to the flexibility of setting up their own website, or even the storefronts offered by the auction management services, will miss the flexibility they have elsewhere.
12. No shopping cart checkout feature- currently the post sale procedure proceeds just like with an individual auction, best I can tell. eBay says shopping cart is on the drawing board.
13. No gallery view. I'd expected some sort of gallery view to show off collections of items for sale in the storefront. Folks like to shop among similar itmems that way.
I know this is in Beta-- but the bottom line for me: it needs a lot of work.
[ edited by magazine_guy on Jun 12, 2001 08:07 AM ]
posted on June 12, 2001 08:27:57 AMcelebrityskin - I wish I had the answers to your questions. That store link I posted was not my store, I just grabbed it off of another thread. There is precious little info out there about the stores.
From what I can see from the example store, it is just a listing of the seller's BIN items and they last as long as the auction in question.
It doesn't seem like enough capability added to justify all the hoopla, that is why I think we must be missing something or the example store is beta/incomplete.
I would be a lot more enthusiastic about this if it had some type of shopping cart, or some zShops-like feature where I can have X number of items available - or even just an indefinite auto-relist feature.
I certainly won't pay $9.95 per month just to get a new view of my seller list that points back to a normal auction.
posted on June 12, 2001 10:13:13 AM
Pricing on the storefronts will be uncompetitive with the 5c relist fee. The BEST & MOST EXPENSIVE fixed price sites will beat the price, as they don't charge a listing fee. They have an appearance 100x better & will offer shopping carts, etc.
For example, if you try to keep 100 items on there and sell 30 per month at an average of $25 each (just a number out of my hat...), your monthly fee (after the introductory period, and after your initial "upload" will be $9.95 + $1.50 (listing the new 30 items) + $37.50 (commission) plus $3.50 (relisting the 70 that didn't sell) = $52.45/mo.
I think with the total lack of flexibility (in design/layout) and "unimpressive" look/feel to the whole effort, you'll do much better off hosting your store somewhere else that offers e-commerce capability w/ unlimited items. They'll have a GREAT shopping cart & more bells & whistles for a LOT less $$ and no commission. Most hosting services will even register your domain name for free if you catch them on the right day...
Doesn't look like a winner to me for eBay. Yesterday's technology (a REAL disappointment) and overpriced to boot.
[edited to reflect new info on pricing & monthly cost example]
[ edited by ebaypowersellergold on Jun 12, 2001 12:49 PM ]
posted on June 12, 2001 11:11:59 AM
I really do not see how eBay could have done such a poor job implementing the look & fee/ functionality of the storefront when there are SO many good ones to emulate.
What would have made this attractive is allowing sellers the flexibility to create their own identity. Just imagine how little appeal your closest shopping mall would have if every store had the same look, just a different color scheme.
All eBay had to do was create a different spin on the fixed price storefronts the auction management companies provide. That's all they had to do.
The way it is now, this is not the way people shop in fixed price storefronts. All a store-owner is doing is paying for a format in which to list "buy it now" items.
I really wanted them to get it right, guess that is too much to expect from eBay.
posted on June 12, 2001 04:47:07 PM
It will be a big help to me,I have alot of inventory that may sell better in a storefront than on an auction.If I can post it for a nickle plus the $9.95 thats great!by the way you do not have to have the item posted as an auction,you have the option to run it as storefront only.Alot of the items I'll run I don't ever put on auctions.I've already started post my stuff.Maybe by Christmas I'll have it done.Ha Ha.
posted on June 12, 2001 09:21:09 PM
I don't know how others feel, but this just seems like another bad move by E-bay, I think it will be a dumping ground for mass merchandisers, who will be dumping stuff at wholesale or near wholesale prices. I can't see too many people with quality antiques or coins wanting to limit their profit potential this way. I won't be using it. I c enjoy watching mine and others items get bid up everyday and I think this is what made E-bay a hit with sellers and buyers. With the high fees and no links policy, it just ain't worth it. This just motivates me to continue decreasing my reliance on E-bay, I will gladly try Epier tomorrow and give Yahoo a chance again. At least Epier allows links!!! I will also expedite the development of my own website, without giving E-bay a cut!!!!
posted on June 12, 2001 11:09:13 PM
Certainly long term its more expensive than many places where you can set up a shop. On the other side of the coin 99.95% of people out there while they can set up a shop have no clue as to how to drive traffic or have the faintest idea how search engines work or more importantly the nuances of the various popular search engines.
This is why they had links moving people off eBay to their sites instead. I dont fault ebay for that at all. We drive much more traffic at eBay than we ever had driven off it, thats a sure fact. 99% of our first time bidders are leads we generated and directed at eBay from our shop/mailing lists.
We drive traffic at our shop from every direction and then some. It took me a few months to get the search engine differences to stick in my noggin' but our site noew ranks #1 a Yahoo in our genre of goods, #2 at Northern Lights, #7 at Alta Vista, #1 at Google and similar stats (first page) of all major search engines and it did'nt cost me a red cent. Just time in learning and research of how the various search engine spiders work and how sites index the results.
Within 2 months any ITEM at our webshop a search engine user is looking "specifically" for will come up in the first page of every major engine... over 1,600 unique items.
We get alot of links from sites who have interests in our goods. We look for them, they dont look for us.
So yes, anyone can get a storefront and even get em' free. That makes absolutely no difference. If LOTS of folks dont see it... useless...
One of the BIGGEST reasons small business and small resellers fail on the net is not price, is not product, is not usually ANYTHING they "realize" so they try this and that and that and this and get no place. TO be a success as an auto mechanic you best understand cars. To be a successful stock broker you better understand the markets. To be a success at programming you better understand computers.
The Internet is no different at all. The better you understand WHERE traffic is and HOW to get it to come to you the more success you will have. I have saw MANY a business get ripped off via this. They have a web designer, not a programmer, not someone who understand how search engines work/rank sites or advise on where/how to drive traffic/sales. Instead a "designer" makes them a site using a web editor which is far less complex than even the most basic of word processors! They pay some shmoo $1000 and get what? Nuthin'.
We have set up multiple shops for businesses and not a SINGLE one, NOT ONE has ever come back and said... "This sux". We take them TO the point of getting real sales and we dont "hold the information on how" for a price.
We step them right through it, its not hard, its not programming. I've done that for 20+, the web as "sales" is childs play compared to programming.
Our webshop cost us $800 basically to deploy. In its first day online it paid for itself. We grow on avg 400% per year.
DONT blame the venue, of sales, if you want web success then you best have the initiative to make it happen. If that means sitting down for hours on end and learning then thats what ya do. If it means hiring proven professionals to do it for you, than thats what you do.
eBay is certainly a set of proven professionals. Are they greedy? Not in my opinion. We sell at some business to consumer sites that make eBay fee's look extra tiny.
Can we advertise in even the most shlepy of newspapers for the cost of eBay? Not a chance. A 4x4 square in a decent magazine with decent distribution will cost you MUCH more than eBay for "actual sales exposure".
Its #1 on the web as its the best bargain for sales on the net period. Traffic vs sell through vs cost, cant be beat. The only sites that are competitive are ONLY business to consumer. For example at iDeal Internationals dealdeal.com business to consumer auction, no listing fee's at all. However, commissions are much steeper than eBay. uBid.com, no listing fee's decent commissions rates. THEY handle your business, they do much more work and get better commissions.
As to eBay shops, the only linkage I see is from auctions. Thats a severe limiter if thats the only "normal" way into a shop. This basically makes it an extension of the auctions just like all those links to external sites. At that, they wont make it.
We know what traffic links generate from eBay and its miniscule, we drive easily 3000-5000% more to our eBay auctions than ever came back to us from ebay, so, when they wanted links removed... No big deal to us at all nor do we see any reason to discontinue driving our traffic at our eBay items.
If eBay makes a "seperate entrance" on the home page of eBay to a "online mall" of sorts of LEGITIMATE business sellers now thats another cup of tea. Sales will be PHENOMENAL.
In making a "Mall" however thats a whole nother' cup of tea too. If you have so many stores that people see gee... 440 CD Music stores it again will fail. Always been the problem with Malls. Some go in and "buy the best exposure" and they get all the sales. The rest say, this isnt doing a thing for me. Exit, Mall collapses as not enough sellers participate. Yahoo for example rotates the "stores" right on each auction page. Thats a smart move. Probably the only smart move I have saw Yahoo make with their auctions site.
They took over an AWESOME point of sale and made it a total disaster. Congrats. Same with Fairmarket. If eBay did what Fairmarket did you'd see a HUGE success. Be shops and points of sale all over the web bellying up. You'd see Amazon selling at eBay auctions.
Instead however Fairmarket did it and their arrogance and poor... well just poor everything made it fail. With names like Lycos, MSN, Dell, Ziff Davis on & on & on I ought be able to take a 16 year old kid off the street and have him as CEO and do better. They must however have a decent sales rep or a few to sap places like MSN etc. into buying into it, especially given the track record of failed venture after failed venture after...
I read someplace they struck? or are looking to strike deal with eBay... Geez... go figure. Considering they can tie their own shoes better make a deal with the place that they continually flamed in press releases to "tie our shoes please".
Amazon on the other hand is different. They too have no idea what they are doing but at least they are smart enough to know they are doing it, whatever "it" is.
IMHO eBay should w/ the storefronts make certain that they are indeed "businesses" whether that means faxing DBA's, and getting some references or what all. Start building a "Business to consumer mall" and have auctions in it as an option as well. Allow said businesses an entry page to be indexed with search engines. Keep the area seperated completely from the current auctions venues.
Put a link at BOTH sites entry pages to one another. Now you've got something. The core eBay auctions as have been for years are completely unaffected. At the sametime now they open a Business to consumer only venue with auctions and direct sales. Businesses will flock to it WITHOUT having to loose the person to person venue (should they so choose) and its completely seperated... Much like starting a whole new site such as Half.com. Now consumers have a choice as well. DO I want to go to P2P auctions or do I want to make sure I am dealing with hopefully all reputable businesses.
IMHO if eBay were to do this they would corner eCommerce on the web. Take this same service and now go sell it to places like MSN, Yahoo, Lycos etc. I'd bet in less than 2 years you'd see "Amazon at eBay stores/auctions", "Dell at eBay auctions"...
In fact could go a step further so Amazon at eBay could make an agreement to display Dell items at Amazon at eBay. Opens up a WHOLE NEW BALL OF WAX while still leaving the core auction site as it is in tact for private sellers and anyone else who would like to "flea market" shop (of sorts).
Hopefully someone at upper eBay might read this thread... If so... by all means call us and pick our brains, simply ask Wayne in Powerseller support who we are, he knows.
posted on June 13, 2001 06:27:23 AMSO as I understand it, from what every one is writing, the only way to access your "Store Front," is from a link on your auction page, correct? So if you don't post auctions, no one will know you have a store front, right?
OOOOOOO - sneaky move.
I've got to think this thing through again...it appeals to me in one way, but without a search feature for the store fronts, it seems a bit preposterous!
IF eBay really expects this "Store Front" program to work and make them money they will have to find another way to notify visitors to eBay of the existance of items, beyond someone's own auction page.
IF buyers access the Store Front, from your auction page, as often as they access the average "ME" page, then no one will see the store fronts!
I've kept a counter on my "ME" page for years, and it is hardly every accessed -
There would have to be more information or access for Store Fronts than via an auction page, that would be ridiculous.
posted on June 13, 2001 08:25:04 AM
Insightwatcher...ebay says that in a few weeks there will be a "hub" set up that will have a directory of the storefronts and will have a search for the storefronts.
posted on June 13, 2001 09:01:32 AM
yes,ebay did say there will be a hub for shops and improvements to storefronts are possible .
to accomodate shops like IBM,there will be a lot of improvements made,unless it is just a link to IBM site or Dell site or saks site??
if it keeps its existing format,it is just a listing of see seller auction list of buy it now items.
if ebay keeps finetuning the storefront,it will also finetune that 9.95 fee per month,how much is true russian caviar these days??
posted on June 13, 2001 10:40:12 AM
I think for some period eBay will have to incorporate the store fronts into the auction site at every practical source until the store fronts take off on their own.
If successful for eBay, the store fronts will eclipse the auction site in visibility. If the shift of revenue to the store fronts occurs, it will not bode well for the auction site. If you think you're on the "pay no mind list" now, it will be even worse.
posted on June 13, 2001 11:00:04 AMit is just a listing of see seller auction list of buy it now items.
If you look carefully at the listing form for the storefronts you will see that the seller can list non-auction items at "buy it now". In other words "buy it now" is the term ebay is using for fixed price non-auction items. If listed in the store front only these items will not show up on the auction page. But the auction BIN items will show up in the storefront along with the seller's entire current auction listings AND the fixed price "buy it now".
When you click on an auction BIN at a storefront you get the standard ebay selling page that allows you to either BIN or bid as an auction. When you click on the storefront "buy it now" you get a page similar to the standard auction page BUT the buyer can ONLY buy it now...there is no ability to bid.
I think the confusion is in ebay's use of the term "buy it now"...many posters here are equating a storefront "buy it now" with an auction "buy it now", but they look to be two different animals. Maybe if ebay named these items "store merchandise" or "instant purchase" there would be less confusion.
The end result is that even though the term is confusing, sellers will not be just paying extra for a list of their auction items that have BIN, they will be listing items that can be "bought now without auction" that are NOT also listed in the core auction site.
will be $9.95 + $1.50 (listing the new 30 items) + $37.50 (commission) plus $3.50 (relisting the 70 that didn't sell) = $52.45/mo.