I am wondering if this is 'ebay' legal. I was looking for a part for a widget that I currently have. I found one. Auction opens for $1.00, with no reserve. I added it to my watchlist, along with a couple of others. I checked my watch list, and was wondering why that one is still at $1, while the others are up in the $8-9 range. I went to the auction, and re-read the listing, thinking maybe it didn't work or something, well, the very last line of a very long TOS states: Fast, S/H is only 11$ anywhere in cont. US and NO TAX! Well, I about dropped my teeth!!!!!! First, I weighed mine, and could ship it priority for 6.25, WITH insurance, and secondly, I could go down to toys r us and get a brand new one for $20.
I sent the guy an email and told him this, in a very nice tone, not attacking or anything, sorta a thought you might like to know this...but he's a powerseller, so he probably couldn't care less.
Now, after all that, isn't there something about jacking up shipping costs?
If he rounded it up, or added less than a buck, fine, but he's adding 4.75 to mail this thing!!!!!!!!!
posted on June 16, 2001 12:56:22 PM new
Welllllllll, it pays to read all the auction doesn't it? Good thing you didn't bid instead of putting it on your watch list.
No regulations against charging handling as long as it's mentioned and he didn't hide anything from you.
Please don't let this turn into another S/H bad seller type threads. This subject has been hashed to death. Just scroll back a page or two and you'll find the threads on shipping fees.
posted on June 16, 2001 12:59:22 PM new
LOL@patscouch
Thinking about it, if someone just sticks my auction (for $1 no less) on a watch list hoping to get it for the dollar when they know good and well it would cost them $20 in a store, and then have the nerve to email me and tell me my s/h is too high for them, then I'd consider that person just out to rip me off and I'd probably charge them $19 to ship plus tax they'd have to pay in the store.
posted on June 16, 2001 01:03:17 PM new
For what it's worth, I wasn't asking for anything free. I am willing to pay legitimate shipping and handling, not almost double what it would cost. If he needs to make a profit, then start the bidding a little higher.
posted on June 16, 2001 01:07:49 PM new
Like I said, scroll back to read all the threads on shipping and handling, padded shipping, etc. There are many opinions out there, some you'll agree with and some you won't.
You can't dictate a seller's terms. Always read the whole auction before you bid and email with questions before bidding. That way, no one gets burned and no one winds up soured.
But if you're not going to bid, don't waste the seller's time scolding him or her for their terms. It just makes them angry enough (sometimes) to put you on their bidder block list.
If you wrote me, I'd answer you, but not everyone would. However, I probably wouldn't change my terms to suit you if I felt strongly about them. There are exceptions to every case, but if I felt scolded, I'd thank you and then block you, politely of course.
posted on June 16, 2001 02:16:37 PM new
I only feel taken when I am overcharged so that the shipper can make more profit. If I bid an amount, and the shipping is fair, then I don't mind. If I bid an amount, and the shipping is 2X what it takes, then I feel taken. The total cost is somewhat relevant, but to me, the principle is more important.
posted on June 16, 2001 02:26:03 PM new
cin131...All of that handling is certainly NOT profit. There are more and more fees that have to paid, eBay, paypal, billpoint, any of the post sale software, packaging materials, time and labor, storage...this list could go on, but I don't want to rehash what has been debated here over and over.
One RAM module could probably be sent for $0.76 first class/ $3.50 priority mail (insurance extra), while the lowest quoted price for shipping is $9.99.
There doesn't seem to be any general outcry over "excessive shipping" for these items, but just let an auction seller dare to charge more than the actual postage cost for shipping, and watch the complaints fly.
I am willing to pay legitimate shipping and handling...
And if you are determining for the seller what a legitimate shipping charge is, it appears that you're essentially telling someone else how their business should be run.
Why, when it comes to auctions, do buyers think it is their responsibility to decide how much they should pay to have something delivered to them? If the item description says "$10 shipping", bid with that knowledge(or not- your choice), and get on with your life.
edited to add...
I only feel taken when I am overcharged...
If the shipping charge is disclosed in the description, how can you be overcharged when you set the price you will pay?
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Jun 16, 2001 02:36 PM ]
posted on June 16, 2001 02:41:37 PM new
We (my family) has noticed the shipping issues with RAM, and we search for the dealers that charge a reasonable amount.
I am aware of the increase in fees. I am a seller. I do not charge someone $11.00 for shipping and then send it with a $5.00 postage sticker on it. That, to me, is not right. If the fees are biting into my profit, then I increase my starting bid or get out of the business. If I charge someone double what it costs to ship I have overcharged them. Shipping costs what shipping costs. As I stated earlier, I don't have a problem if they round it up to the nearest dollar, or even charge a dollar more, but to almost double it is IMHO ridiculous. THAT is just my opinion. I am well aware that I will & have already been duly slammed for it.
I apologize that my opinion is not the same as everyone elses. I really just started this thread to ask a simple question. I thought that I had heard somewhere that it was agaisnt ebay's rules to jack up shipping. Instead of hearing about how wrong I am or what a busybody I was, I really just wanted a yes or no. I find it quite amazing that some people can start posts and get positive responses, and I always manage to get my butt slammed.
posted on June 16, 2001 02:43:12 PM new
You can respond to this and continue to tell me what an idiot I am for not wanting to pay double for shipping, but I really don't care. I have turned off notification, and will not be reading it anymore.
posted on June 16, 2001 02:49:06 PM new
I just had someone win 2 kids books for $1.99 and I charged a stated $2.50 for S/H. After the win she wrote to tell me she was not comfortable paying more for shipping than for the price of the auction, and since media mail is $1.30, she would send me $1.50 for shipping. I immediately responded with the "shipping is not negotiable" email. I have not heard back, we'll see how it goes.
posted on June 16, 2001 02:55:02 PM new
Try ordering CD's from a music club and let me know if you have been charged too much for shipping. How about QVC, do you think they round up or just add $1.00 to actual shipping. Not a chance, they are a business that needs to cover overhead, just like sellers on eBay. If you choose to not cover those expenses with your handling, thats your choice, but don't SLAM others that operate like a legitimate business.
posted on June 16, 2001 03:27:46 PM newI am a seller.
Here is the root of the problem. Almost invariably, when there is a complaint about shipping costs, the post begins "I am a seller..." and proceeds to detail how another seller is cheating people by charging "excessive" shipping (excessive being more than the poster thinks is proper).
When you are a seller, you are the one who determines the shipping cost. When you are a buyer, you are not the one to make this decision. Whether or not you like it, that's the way it is.
OK... the seller wants $5 more for shipping than you think is fair- don't bid on it. You can just get in your car and drive the 20 mile roundtrip to the store and buy it there. Nevermind that the cost to drive that 20 miles, at about $6.00, is more than the overcharge on the auction item (and that you need to take an hour out of your day to make the trip)- it's the principle of the thing, isn't it?
...will not be reading it anymore.
If you only wanted to read opinions that agreed with yours, you should have said so.
posted on June 16, 2001 03:31:07 PM newIf the fees are biting into my profit, then I increase my starting bid or get out of the business.
Here we go again. It's impossible to recoup fees by raising the starting bid. A higher starting bid doesn't necessarily mean a higher WINNING bid. As a matter of fact it usually works out in reverse.
There are only 2 ways that I know of to cover the costs of fees:
1) Charge a handling charge on top of actual postage.
2) Charge a flat-rate shipping/handling charge that is high enough to cover your costs.
If there is another way, someone please enlighten me. And no, "raising the starting bid" isn't a legitimate response.
posted on June 16, 2001 08:25:37 PM new
[QUOTE]A higher starting bid doesn't necessarily mean a higher WINNING bid. [/QUOTE]
Businessman, what you're overlooking is that there are a lot of categories (I suspect an increasing number of categories) where sellers stand a good chance of getting 1 and only 1 bid.
cin - Perhaps you won't actually read this, but what you referred to in your first post is called "fee avoidance" by ebay. They have never, however, deigned to define what they consider "excesss handling" charges.
posted on June 16, 2001 08:37:59 PM new
I know what I said earlier, but I didn't turn it off (honestly I thought I did) and since there were more comments, I had to see what an idiot everyone thinks I am.
First off, I do not try to dicker with a sellers TOS. If my auctions are not selling for some reason, I would welcome someone telling me why. If I choose to bid on an auction, I have accepted those TOS. I was, once again, just asking if this is allowed on ebay.
doninpa, i would not object to $2.50 for mailing books. I do not do music clubs because of the shipping.
Mrpotatohead, The only reason I said I was a seller is to acknowledge the fact that I am aware of the increase in fees. I don't mind if people disagree with me, in fact I usually welcome it. What I do not like is the condescending and oh my God here's another idiot attitude that accompanies the opposing viewpoints. I respectfully disagree with people, without insinuating anything about their viewpoints or intelligence.
For that matter, I asked a yes or no question, not a "what do you think of this situation. Maybe I included too much information in the question, and it got lost."
Barrelracer, I did not mean to imply that I knew anything about his profits, I was just really honestly shocked at the fact that the shipping he quoted was almost double what it would cost to ship priority with insurance, and I thought that there was something wrong with it, but apparently it is common practice to do this.
clevergirl, thank you, after all these posts, someone finally answered my question.
posted on June 16, 2001 09:22:39 PM new
Cin131...the problem with Clevergirl's answer is that in this case it isn't fee avoidance. Maybe if the item would only sell for $1 no matter what it could be fee avoidance...but many sellers start items at $1 with every reasonable expectation that the item will go higher so the $1 wouldn't make it fee avoidance in and of itself.
The shipping does include more than postage and insurance and it is up to each business person to decide just how much of those extra costs (packing material, time, gas, etc) he will include in the shipping charge and how much, if any, he will cover with his gross profit from the item's final bid price. So an $11 charge on something that will cost $6.25 for postage and insurance can be very reasonable if the seller is covering ALL his shipping related costs in the shipping charge.
As a bidder you have the right to decide if you want to bid on an auction or not...for what ever reason you want...it is your decision. But IMO you don't have the right to email the seller and give him any "advice" on how he should structure his pricing on shipping...it is a tad rude and presumptuous. Not trying to be rude myself here, but who died and made you the final arbitrator as to what is an acceptable shipping charge and what isn't? Because to me, that is the postition you took when you emailed the seller with your "friendly", unasked for, advice
My answer to your question of "is it legal"...yes, it is perfectly legal and I doubt if ebay would ever hit a seller like this with a fee avoidance reprimand.
[ edited by amy on Jun 16, 2001 09:25 PM ]
>>I could go down to toys r us and get a brand new one for $20<<
I just have to say. If you could buy a new one for $20, what's the point in selling it on Ebay? (or buying it, for that matter) I've passed up a lot of new items for $1 because the retail price is below $25. I don't see the point in selling it.. As a rule people will only pay 10%-20% of retail on Ebay.
Who really cares if it is Ebay legal to charge that much for shipping. move on! It's not worth worrying about. They obviously won't sell it.
I don't see why people complain. Sellers can only charge what the market will bear. If shipping is too high, smart bidders just move on to the next auction and the seller is stuck with the item. If they insist on charging unrealistic shipping and handling charges they won't be in business long.
I respectfully disagree with people, without insinuating anything about their viewpoints or intelligence.
Here are some of your comments regarding this seller:
...but he's a powerseller, so he probably couldn't care less.
Now, after all that, isn't there something about jacking up shipping costs?
If I bid an amount, and the shipping is 2X what it takes, then I feel taken.
I do not charge someone $11.00 for shipping and then send it with a $5.00 postage sticker on it. That, to me, is not right.
I don't have a problem if they round it up to the nearest dollar, or even charge a dollar more, but to almost double it is IMHO ridiculous.
Now, if I were this seller, I think I might not find some of the above comments to be what I would consider "respectful disagreement", but that's just me...
edited to add...
Suppose one of your buyers wrote to you and said in a very nice tone, not attacking or anything, sorta a thought you might like to know this... a lot of buyers prefer to pay by check. Would you change your TOS to suit them?
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Jun 16, 2001 10:24 PM ]
posted on June 17, 2001 03:08:42 AM new
Just to toss this in:
Powerseller or not, part time seller or not, shipping fees are as expensive to the seller as the buyer. In my TOS I state all shipping fees include materials, etc which I do not add into my opening price. Sellers get burned quite often on thier shipping fees, weather the scale at home is off, postal fees increase, GAS PRICES (I live 4.5 miles away from the P.O., that's 9 miles round trip, 1/2 gallon of gas at $1.89 a gallon-that is now a MAJOR expense). If you don't wish to bid because of "excessive" fees, then don't bid. I am sure as sellers we keep that cost as low as we can, but we are in this to turn a profit, not just provide a service. Sellers and companies go belly-up every day because the bottom line isn't met; we also have "fees" to pay, for myself they are mortguage, electricity, fuel oil, gasoline, insurance and many other things. How would the local oil company feel if I called them this past winter when prices were $1.73 and told them after a fill-up; "Your fees are excessive (they were, but that's another matter), so I only want to pay $?.?? for my oil this week." Think I'd have time to say good by to my wife and children before they haul me off to the booby-hatch?
JMHO, of course.
Rick
In the begining, God created the heavens and the earth.
What the seller is doing is Ebay legal, in that he/she is stating up front a shipping and handling charge. No deception there, and it is up to the bidder whether or not to bid. Really, if it costs 6.75 to ship, and this seller is charging an extra 5.00...that isn't too bad, considering this seller is taking into account his/her time and supplies that are consumed.
You have to realize that there are two basic types of sellers on Ebay...people like myself, who sell to make some extra $$ and for fun. Sure, I want to make some good $$ (and have!)...but I'm not standing in the soup line if sales get real bad. The other type are the sellers who do this for a living; they run a business from home, and for them this isn't fun and games time. This is serious business.
So, while for a lot of us charging "actual shipping" is pefectly okay, for others it would not be economically feasible. They have a lot of overhead to compensate for.
As for the other responses...I'm sorry you felt like you were being attacked! It happens sometimes here...just try not to take it personal. 96.32% of the time it isn't meant to be.
"Who's tending the bar? Sniping works up a thirst"
posted on June 17, 2001 06:57:10 AM new
Well stated koto1 !
And it really isn't anything goes, bidder beware for all sellers.
There are some tactics that most sellers find offensive too.
One I can think of is when a seller states
" $3.95 for shipping" which might lead a bidder to think Priority shipping, and then they get the item in a bubble mailer for 76 cents.
We are well aware that when a bidder has a bad experience on ebay that it hurts all sellers in that that bidder is digusted and also will tell their friends.
To me, what I think most posters here find difficult to accept about emailing a seller that states the charge in his/her ad, is that it is our choice whatever shipping charges we want to charge. If they are too high then the bidders don't buy and a seller should adjust.
posted on June 17, 2001 07:01:50 AM new
CleverGirl:
Businessman, what you're overlooking is that there are a lot of categories (I suspect an increasing number of categories) where sellers stand a good chance of getting 1 and only 1 bid.
I'm not overlooking this at all. It's completely true. But that doesn't change the fact that what I said in my earlier post is also completely true.
Again, raising the starting price to cover fees doesn't guarantee a higher winning bid amount. If you're selling in a category where an item usually sells for the opening bid, raising that opening bid to cover fees just might mean the auction will close with NO bids which is in effect RAISING your fees with zero return.
In fact, when listing an item in a category that usually sells for the opening bid, it's even MORE important to cover your fees with a handling charge.
Contrary to what we read on these boards, more bidders are turned off by high starting bids than by high shipping & handling charges. I know this from personal experience, having tried most combinations of starting bid vs. handing charge over the course of 2 years. I can tell you that a "high" handling charge auction will draw more bids than a "high" opening bid almost every time, usually with a higher winning bid amount.
posted on June 17, 2001 07:05:30 AM new" $3.95 for shipping" which might lead a bidder to think Priority shipping, and then they get the item in a bubble mailer for 76 cents.
This is why I charge $3.99 shipping & handling to ship CDs that cost 76¢ to mail.
Sniping works up a thirst"