posted on June 24, 2001 01:55:21 PM
>>But let say you go in to a retail store and buy a lamp... The store has all their cost figured in the price of the lamp.....
Let say the store has a good employee who turn down the heat in the store ever night at closing......saving the store money that was set in the fixed price of the lamp......so in your opinion the store is over charge the lamp customer because their fees where based upon worse case scenarios ? <<
This comes from the in-duh-vidual school of debating.
Doctor: vegetables are good for you
in-duh-vidual: but if I ate a truckload of vegetables and then went swimming I might drown, doesn't this prove that they're not good for you?
I never heard of a store that prices lamps based on whether they left the heat on or what the weather is. This is a foolish analogy. However, stores do add the credit card fees into the prices of their items.
>>if I choose to take PayPal, either for the convenience or for another payment option, it is MY responsibility to pay the fees. <<
Isn't it YOUR responsibility to get the item to the customer? So why don't YOU pay the shipping?
>>When you go into a store and use a credit card, would you like it if they told you "we can only let you use your credit card if you pay the fees for using it"?<<
If they gave me a choice and a lower price for paying cash, absolutely. There was a time when places and particularly gas stations, gave a discount for cash. I was happy with the discount. I thought it was foolish that buyers whined and the end result was they lost their discount and somehow think this was a victory.
>>But I can guarantee that if the same store decided not to take credit cards anymore, you wouldn't suddenly see a drop in their prices.<<
That is the problem. And I can guarantee you that if the same stores kept their prices the same and offered a discount for cash, you would see a rise in their sales until the credit card companies shut them down.
>> Therefore, they are using some of their profits to pay for the CONVENIENCE of using a credit card.<<
No, they have suckered the customers into paying extra even if they dont use the convenience.
Folks, this rule was not done for your benefit. It was done because credit card companies want you to use those cards as much as possible. They love it when you pay just the monthly minimum because they can gouge you for as much as 21% interest. If folks realized they were paying about 3% more up front for the "convenience" of using the card, they might not use it. So by forcing stores to hide the fee, more folks are fooled into debt. Just because we accept it and it's legal doesnt make it right.
posted on June 24, 2001 02:02:30 PM
Ahhhh thank goodness I never started taking paypal. The only online payment I take is bidpay so it doesnt cost me anything, and many buyers to my surprise love it. New sellers ask me all the time how I sell without paypal, and the answer is simple I was selling long before paypal came among. I do feel bad for sellers since they were told it would be free, and now they are hammering them with fees. I dont think check and money order paying buyers should have to pay for others to use paypal. Just my opinion. And yes I DO miss Clinton!
posted on June 24, 2001 02:03:18 PM
At the end of the day.......
The workings of the eBay is based
on true capitalistic ideas......
Supply
Demand
Price
Service...
I don’t think the customer really
care who palms are held up to the seller....
If their happy with the goods they just pay not
giving much thought to how the price was
calculated...
posted on June 24, 2001 02:10:07 PM
My Y
I never heard of a store that prices lamps based on whether they left the heat on or what the weather is. This is a foolish analogy. However, stores do add the credit card fees into the prices of their items.
Sounds like you’ve never been in retail before..
All expenses all taken it to the calculation equation when
price pointing...including cc fees and utility bills
posted on June 24, 2001 02:16:06 PM
>>Sounds like you’ve never been in retail before. All expenses all taken it to the calculation equation when price pointing..including cc fees and utility bills<<
I have been in retail for over 20 years. I have yet to see a store advertise:
"lamps: $20 unless the temperature goes under 30 degrees and then it's $25 but if we have a mild winter it's $15"
Or do they just change the price every day based on the weather forecast?
posted on June 24, 2001 02:57:48 PM
Sorry Y
I did not mean to belittle your retailing abilities..
I too was in the retail game for many years before
selling my chain of 9 discount houses here in the
North West to a Chicago based company..One year after the buyout
they closed all of them...They still have 2 years of payments
to make......so I’ve been taking easy with my wholesale business
that I retained..... eBay for me.. is just beer money a job placement for my youngest
daughter..
posted on June 24, 2001 03:10:06 PM
Hi,
No offense taken, you can't post here and be thin-skinned. But there is a difference between fixed costs and guesstimates. When I sell an item, I can't tell you how much of the price was to cover my electric bill, rent, web site costs, etc. But I can tell you to the penny how much was to cover the credit card fee, if any. And therefore I won't charge that fee unless a credit card was used. I dont think it would be fair to the customer.
In order to comply with silly rules, I added a "handling fee" and then gave an equal "discount" if the customer paid in any other way. Now I no advertise any methods that cost me money. If a customer emails to ask about such a method, I will then respond that I don't regularly accept it but I will make an exception provided he pay a "handling fee." He can't complain to ebay because I don't even accept that method in my auction. It's a silly game to play and it is annoying to have buyers consider me dishonest for doing this. But I feel it is more honest than charging for something I didnt even pay.
1748.1. (a) No retailer in any sales, service, or lease transaction
with a consumer may impose a surcharge on a cardholder who elects to
use a credit card in lieu of payment by cash, check, or similar
means. A retailer may, however, offer discounts for the purpose of
inducing payment by cash, check, or other means not involving the use
of a credit card, provided that the discount is offered to all prospective buyers.
(b) Any retailer who willfully violates this section by imposing a surcharge on a cardholder who elects to use a credit card and who fails to pay that amount to the cardholder within 30 days of a written demand by the cardholder of the retailer by certified mail,shall be liable to the cardholder for three times the amount at
which actual damages are assessed. The cardholder shall also be entitled to recover reasonable attorney's fees and costs incurred in the action.
posted on June 24, 2001 03:53:29 PM
[edited because I thought diebay was referring to me, but not I realize that diebay is referring to packer. my bad]
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[ edited by revvassago on Jun 24, 2001 03:59 PM ]
posted on June 24, 2001 03:56:11 PM
[ditto the above post. my bad]
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[ edited by revvassago on Jun 24, 2001 04:00 PM ]
posted on June 24, 2001 04:05:50 PM
Sorry but maybe I did not clarify my point in posting the California law. Someone asked earlier in the thread about proof that surcharges were against the law. I dug up the California code in order to illustrate that certainly in California, surcharges are illegal and you can be civilly liable. Maybe nobody with a gun is going to show up at your door but It is still illegal.There are enough cranky buyers out there that one may decide to collect his 35cents and have you as seller also pay his attorney fees at $200 an hour just for the heck of it.
posted on June 24, 2001 05:10:39 PM
That's the credit card law, diebay.
It was designed to keep VISA & Mastercard happy... by putting CC payments on equal footing with cash & check payments. It was written years before e-payments existed.
PayPal is not VISA or Mastercard --- a PayPal payment can be funded by cc, check or cash from other transactions. There's no discrimination against credit card payments with PayPal. The law designed to benefit VISA & Mastercard doesn't fit.
Openly charging a fee for PayPal use is against eBay and PayPal rules, but there's no law against it.
posted on June 24, 2001 05:33:59 PM
Paypal still prohibits you from passing the fee along, and if you do, you are breaching the contract you have with Paypal.
Which is a violation of the law.
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