posted on July 4, 2001 10:38:01 AM
Just think,a bookseller if he has just one copy of that book can list it on multiple sites-amzn zshop,amazon marketplace,amzn auction,ebay auction,ebay store,half.com,abe.com,etc etc.
if the book is sold on one site,and he forgets to remove it from other sites,there will be unhappy customers.
think of what the FTC folks will say and do??
posted on July 4, 2001 10:41:08 AM
Most booksellers do list on multiple sites and do spend time each day deleting items if the book sold at one of the sites.
Maybe you shouldn't look at this as ABE stooping to Half...but ABE raising Half
posted on July 4, 2001 10:47:32 AM
good point,ABE will become stronger from all that lifting,HALF.COM infrastructure stinks,customer service stinks,data base stinks,content & accuracy stink.
why cant ebay jsut scrap half.com and link to abe.com?
of course then ebay will not earn that fat commision.
there are many dealers who do not remove listings from multiple sites when the book or item is sold.
dont forget some of them have land shops as well.
posted on July 4, 2001 11:45:58 AM
My impression is that there are different "cultures" among the sites, or have been. For example, I tried to buy on either ABE or Bibliofind and was told "sorry, out of stock". But once or twice I've slipped up at half.com and gotten stern warnings not to let this happen again, little girl! Amazon says they'll just charge us any time that happens.
I interpret this to mean that booksellers who pay fees can treat the web sites as convenient sources of advertisement, and run their businesses as they see fit, but the rest of us lowly listers on half.com and Amazon lack any such dignity.
posted on July 4, 2001 12:22:36 PM
keziak,
if we look at bibliofind and abe.com as a confederation of independant dealers who pay a small fee to have books listed on a popular site,each runs its own stall,if the book is out of stock,it hurts the seller,not the site operator.
altho if it happens frequently,words will spread.
amazon and barnes and nobles sell their own books as well so they have more to lose when unhappy customers badmouth them because some small dealers have not been manning their shop inventory.
i think we are seeing consolidation across cyberlands,bigger and better dealers with bigger and better inventory,deeper pocket books and better customer service.
it takes money to make money,it is true in every industry,remember those early days where everyone can pan for gold in ca or alaska,drilled oil in your backyard with those donkeys??
take a look at what chain supermarkets and walmarts and home depots have done to mom and pop stores.
big boys are like big hound dogs,they smell the scent of money and soon they will show up and here they are!!!!!!
how about another example-the foot soldiers of spartacus versus roman empire army.
we are the foot soldiers,when will the roman army arrive on the scene??
posted on July 4, 2001 12:59:26 PM
Some sellers sell on both. I don't see it as Half.com having massive competition now but as the ABE Sellers. A lot of those books are overprices now they will have to compete with half.com prices. I see it as a good thing for the half.com sellers some of the books we actaully will be able to charge more for and get more and will look like a better price then what it was with the ABe listings going it half.com. Could be the shot in the arm half.com needs.
posted on July 4, 2001 01:42:01 PM
yes,some of the books on abe.com are overpriced.
i dont think abe dealers are the soldiers of the roman empire,i consider them as seasoned mercenaries who eat better than we the spartacan run away slaves do.
posted on July 4, 2001 03:46:58 PM
Anyone got a guess what the final outcome of this will be... Half belongs to Ebay, and ABE is joining (semi) with Half... once Ebay pulls Half directly onto the Ebay site, in the manner they were discussing earlier??? Sounds like one Golly big monster, to me.
posted on July 4, 2001 04:27:34 PM
battle of the titans??
one one side we have amzn (amzn,discount booksellers,bibliofind,borders) versus ebay(ebay shop & auction sellers,half.com & abe).
what about barnes and noble>i noticed they have removed some of their couches and chairs and desks from their stores.
amzn is managing borders' website,but what about their land stores?
right now the scale is tilted more towards amazon as books is their specialty and what they dont have in stock,several strong discount booksellers are in there to fill the void,and if these booksellers dont have,bibliofind have used and out of print titles.
also dont forget the order processing set up of amzn is totally geared towards online purchasing.
but then i am somewhat prejudiced as i sell my books on amzn
posted on July 4, 2001 06:23:16 PM
I dunno, Amazon is already on the losing side of the auction biz. Their one stronghold was the books, IMO, particularly when they got Bibliofind. This could be a rather crushing blow for them.
Not to mention Ebays new shops, once they have them navigationable-- zshops at Amazon will become less popular. No?
posted on July 4, 2001 06:47:16 PM
Barnes and Noble is already in partnership with ABE and has been for some time. If you go to their OUT of Print section most of the books listed are ABE's with a B&N markup.
But unlike Half.coms, ABE bookseller's items from around the world are listed there
posted on July 4, 2001 07:00:51 PM
Thats kind of what I thought, but I wasn't sure. This is a pretty big thing when all considered. Almost like looking at Microsoft (or some such) giving birth.
So, what do we do now... Buy Ebay stock? Go into the delivery biz?
The truely haunting question is what will happen to the book market. Not to mention, the buyers and their expections, which vary just as much.
posted on July 4, 2001 07:08:49 PM
Hey folks, you now know our secret is out, don't you. Here we sit as firework time is here...Small wonder we fell in books, huh.
posted on July 4, 2001 07:10:10 PM
amzn z shops is never consider an ebay competitor,neither is its auction.
ebay is becoming too big,no matter how you narrow your search,you are bound to see a lot of irrelevant things and miss some good ones.plus there are so many dealers and ebay does little to prevent misrepresentation.
it is true that buyer beware is posted every where on the site but ebay barrier is so low,any one can sell,
it is up to ebay to clean up the act!!
i think amzn enjoys a good reputation of an online bookstore,books are books,if you can find a good copy thru amzn either amzn itself or bibliofind or any of the independent sellers at a good price ,why wade thru zillions of copies on ebay.
i think the big discounters who sell remainder books on amzn can be the ones who tilt the scale ,not bibliofind or abe,they are professional booksellers who have been in business longer than amzn or half.com,they are the ones who buy remainders books in large volumes,i know some of them are offered first choice before others even know these books are available.
as long as they stay with amzn,customers will be very happy to buy a perfectly new copy at a fraction of original price,well packed and shipped fast!!
posted on July 4, 2001 07:43:31 PM
I have not found zillions of copies of anything on Ebay (other than "I quit Ebay" baloney,) and am an independent seller.
I think Amazon considers itself a competitor, and rightfully so. As do those who list there.
Far as reminder books go, I happened to look through a few "suppliers" last night, and found them slightly cheaper than Half (actual comparison), so am guessing the lister has a direct tie to the site, that they can make some small profit listing through Half, something most of us cannot begin to compete with.
One of the things that really strike me, is that the book dealers at Ebay I have bought from, who have high feedback, ship the books in such a slipshod manner.
I purchased one as "new, in the plastic" to receive it in an envelope with one layer of bubblewrap and between 2 sheets of thin cardboard. This softbound (bought as new) arrived with severe dents in the edge of the cover.
Neg? No. Just, never another purchase. I, myself, ship on occassion with envelopes, but not like this.
To me, this is a real clash. I can't see any good of it coming to anyone. Who will know what to expect anymore?
I generally charge close to actual shipping, tho well wrapped. I keep seeing time and again, I'm going to have to start charging extra.
Seems this will have far reaching repercussions to all book dealers. I don't think I care for it.
posted on July 4, 2001 10:21:10 PM
this cyber taking in each other 's dirty laundry has been going on for 5 years and is fading,you can just read this board and read what is said between the lines-garage packed with unsold or soon to be listed items,paypal class action suit,billpoint is greedy,my credit card balance is mounting etc etc,now it looks like the collectibles game has been played out and we are all moving to sell books on amzn marketplace.
you click on a used button of a book on amzn,now you see easily 5-8 sellers starting at 4.95.
why does ebay think we need more books is beyond me??except that books are very suitable for selling in cyberspace,more so than gorcery or dry cleaning??
i think the marginal sellers will be squeezed out first,then the big guys may realise no one is making any money and should raise prices .
we can always look at past history -OPEC,natural gas bubble,tulip mania,south sea island bubble>>now cyber collectibles
posted on July 4, 2001 10:37:20 PM
amzn gave 2.20 for shipping and it is barely enough.
i shipped in a sturdy jiffy bag which is heavier than a light bubble enevelope.
one time i shipped an oversize book in a box after wrapping it with bubble wrap and the post office butchered it.
buyer called me and i offered him a new copy if he pays.
he would not and i said there is no insurance and i have done my best,so he said he would talk to amzn.
the time to make some decent money is when overseas buyer buys an average size book and you ship by surface mail,
american books are expensive overseas so they are willing to buy here.
we need more overseas buyers.
posted on July 4, 2001 11:05:01 PM
If you feel Ebay does not need any more books, please don't list. We don't need sellers who care so little for a books condition upon arrival.
posted on July 5, 2001 08:03:06 AM
i do care about book condition if it is due to my negligence or even usps in some cases.
i asked the buyer to contact amzn first and see if there is any arrangement we can made.
this is an out of print book and the shipping and material added up to a lot more than 2.20 refunded by amzn.
amzn should be aware of cases as it could help them shape future policy.
posted on July 5, 2001 08:47:26 AM
I think that the ABE deal might be a good way to keep the bottom feeding .75 guys from running the show, but they can and will exist regardless.
My chief complaint against half is their slow servers. If they were to fix that, their business would improve.
posted on July 5, 2001 08:55:43 AM
HALF's SLOW SERVERS !!!!
I take naps when I'm over there waiting for the pages to load and I'm on CABLE!! They are the slowest loading I have ever run into. I always wonder what folks with slower loading do while waiting.....
posted on July 5, 2001 12:07:46 PM
i think ebay will spruce up half.com and ebay stores and revamp the whole site to makes all these pieces run in sync together.
i dont think half.com as it is now can handle the traffic coming from the regular ebay bidders.
the books offered on abe and the paperbacks for 75 cents on half.com are different kind of books,a professional dealer and i assume most abe.com dealers are would not be hoarding many paper backs,most would offer hc with worthwhile content .
something is missing here,on half.com one finds out of print books,used books and cheap paperbacks,who is providing the in print good books as found on amzn or barnes and noble??
posted on July 5, 2001 08:22:18 PM
somone posted somewhere that he lives near a print factory which prints paperback books.
workers get to take home factory rejects free,and he thinks that they show up on half.com at 75 cents.
so sales price 75 c
cost 0 c
half.com comm 15% of 75 cents= 11.25 c
shipping rebate 2.29 dollars
so the seller gets 2.18 cents,throw in a padded envelope or just plain envelope and postage bookrate,the seller is clearing under 1.00 per book,what a deal!!!!
posted on July 5, 2001 09:55:36 PM
Let me throw in my 2 cents. Will this possibly cut at whatever online bookselling the folks at ABE are doing? Today, on ebay, I bought two BUY IT NOW books at prices I simply wouldn't find at an OOP dealer. Some first edition Civil War books that I had for sale at ROCK BOTTOM GIVE AWAY prices on ebay simply didn't move. I think we are about to see the Walmarting of the OOP book business.
One other thing is the used competition with books still in print. I wonder if this may not, at some point, cut into the revenues of publishing as a whole. Buy the book, read it, resell it on half or ebay or Amazon.
This will also effect author revenues.
I have a book that was published last year. On Amazon you have a used copy competing in sale against the current in-print copy, on the same page. I don't get a royalty off the used copy. I expect that publishers and authors may have something to say about this eventually. It is the royalties that authors get that pays them back for their time and effort in writing, and for non-fiction, like mine, research. If you have a small publisher, like mine, you don't get sold or paid like Tom Clancey. Most authors don't. Admitted, there is something to actually exchange ideas and be published, but the bottom line is that remuneration is welcome.
It pays the bills too.
posted on July 6, 2001 08:49:28 AM
walmarting of OOP books,interesting !!
some authors(celebrity such as marlon brando,margaret thatcher,dan quayle,bill clinton etc ) gets million(s) for writing a book,some of these books eventually end up in remainder lots and sell for 3.95 retail,
i always wonder if the publisher ever recoup the advance ,lest the cost of bringing the book to the market.
but then there are other reasons behind it,certain politician whom i will not name borrowed more than he can handle to continue his presidential campaign back in the 1980s and eventually he wrote a book,is that a form of political contribution,channeled thru the publishing house so he can pay down his debt,this politician eventually ended up in the white house and ran again for presidency not too long ago.
on a lesser scale,a pizza carryout in your neighborhood never seem to have much business,but it could be a front for money laundering,so what does it matter if pizzas taste lousy and it loses money??
as to the approach of buying a book,read it and sell it-if the purpose is to read the book,he can always go to the public library or barnes and noble bookstore and read it with a good cup of starbuck coffee,it would cost him zero.
if he buys the book,then hope to resell it,he runs the risk he may not be able to resell it amid all the competition.
some one posted somwhere that she bot a book on half.com hoping to read and resell on amzn,found out the book arrived damaged,ruining her chance of listing book as 'used-just like new' and adding another piece of burden to her credit card balance.
[ edited by hwahwahwahwa on Jul 6, 2001 08:54 AM ]
posted on July 6, 2001 02:34:30 PM
All the bad mouthing of Half does get tiresome. Many of the sellers at Half sell on Ebay, Amazon, ABE, etc.
To generalize Half sellers as you are doing is really an injustice. I've gotten poorly packaged books when bought through Ebay (and some well packed.) Just as, poorly packaged through Half-- and well packed.
The shipping allowance really has nothing to do with it. If you can't sell the book at enough to satify yourself and package it properly, then find another market for it.
There is no excuse for shipping a book (or anything else) in such a manner, you have to hope it arrives in a satisfactory condition.
The unfortunate fact of the matter is that many sellers just don't understand all the details about packing or condition. BUT, many do. I am one of them and ALL my books are well wrapped, regardless of where I sell them. Including Half.
I use my Ebay name there and the feedback at both speaks highly of my packaging.
posted on July 6, 2001 07:01:22 PM
shipping allowance as the name implies,has something to do with shipping,otherwise it would be called ice cream cone allowance,or hashish or treat yourself to a slice of pepperoni pizza allowance.
amzn advises its sellers to include the extra efforts in the listed price of the book,competition is such that this extra needs to be carfully priced into the book else it may not sell.
but despite all the best efforts some thing can go wrong and a little cushion somewhere allows us seller to act graciously and say okay,a replacement copy is on its way shipped usps priority.
shipping cost can add up -a good padded envelope or a box,bubble wraps,delivery confirmation or insurance,4th class or first class.
buyers do not understand,as a business we average out the cost,he cannot look at the his own package and say it is price gourging,another one may just think we are stupid to spend 5.95 for shipping a book and charging 2.95 for it.
yesterday i have a rather odd case-a buyer bot an out of print book on occult on amzn and asked it to be shipped to her office.
she worked for one of the most prestigeous and largest law firm in the country and she wants to take this occult book to read on the plane on her way to europe.
when she received the package,she said there is no book inside and the postage is 1.30.
that was the old usps rate for book for up to one lb.
i checked with the post office and they said an empty jiffy bag by itself would not weigh enough to warrant 1.30(1 lb) and there has to be something inside.
as i am the one who sealed the package and mailed it,i asked her if it is possible her employer mail room could have open all the imcoming mail and took out the book and did not remember where it came from and which dept or person it should be forwared to.
(i know some firms open all incoming mail whether it is marked personal or business,brokerage houeses always do,banks and insurance may still be doing it,legal firms which handle large corporate merger and acquisition such as hers could do this as well) and it is possible if they open all the mail and did not know which envelope it should return to??
and of course they have no idea which lawyer handles occult cases?? or is a fan of the beast aleister crowley!
this is an out of print book and not insured,so if i lose the argument ,i will have to find a replacement or refund her money and she will fly to europe solo without gaining any insight on occult mysticism a la aleister crowley style.
i know most books arrived safe and sound ,it is just a few exceptions here and there which makes some of us think about a bigger margin whether it comes from shipping allowance or the gross profit margin of the book.
most of my books are not 25 cents one from a garage sale,i do not have a 1000% profit selling my book.
