posted on July 7, 2001 07:51:34 PM new
I am SO sorry this has happened. I have to agree w/siddielou, it's time to bring an attorney on board if you haven't already.
It could very well be money well spent in the long run. Amazing how quickly some people (especially bullies like this husband) back away when faced w/a letter from an attorney.
posted on July 7, 2001 08:31:34 PM new
As far as threats go, he stated on a voice mail message which we taped, that he "would make it his life's career goal to make our lives miserable." He also stated he was going to put a lean on our property for the amount that we owe him, which is just shipping and E-Bay fees which I paid. The statement about making it his career goal to make our lives miserable sounds a psycho to me. I don't know anyone who would leave such a threat when it is being recorded. Such as message is permissible in court because you have consented to being recorded.
I reported his threats to Safeharbor, but I have been disappointed in them in the past. They should suspend him, but what is to prevent his wife from registering in another name? What would that solve? We are going to consult another attorney on this. The one that we spoke to previously stated that we did as much as we could to deliver the item in good faith and his refusal to accept delivery was "unreasonable refusal." They stated that he doesn't have a leg to stand on legally.
posted on July 7, 2001 09:03:56 PM new
Holy cow!
I would think you can get a restraining order if you have threats that are written or recorded.
What a freak.
Invite him here...lol...we'll make mincemeat out of him.
Prayers are with you....no one should have to put up with this kind of nutbar!
posted on July 7, 2001 10:28:52 PM new
I hope you get Hispanic paralegal, a Hispanic lawyer, Hispanic summons server, Hispanic Judge and Hispanic jailor. And maybe he better hope the jail cook ain't Hispanic.
Hey! The BUYER'S name didn't seem Hispanic, did it? Some of the worst predjustice is against one's own 'blood'.
I don't think "making your lives miserable" would be considered a "threat" to your safety, which is necessary for a restraining order, but you can ask your local police for their opinion and advice.
I would NOT report his business to any civil rights group for racist remarks---you'll only make matters worse. If you want to take a dig at him, file a complaint against his roofing company with his local Better Business Bureau, citing his racist and unpleasant attitude. He'll probably never know you filed it, but anyone wanting to check out his company can read your report.
As for putting a lien on your property for the shipping and eBay fees you deducted from his refund.....a lawyer can tell you with certainty, but in my state a lien can only be placed on a homestead by a contractor/subcontractor (like carpet company, landscape service, painter, wallpaperer, plumber, etc.) who has contributed to the *value* of the property; by someone holding a *mortgage* on the property; or by the taxing authority (for unpaid back taxes). Your non-real estate business property (resale merchandise, computer equipment, cash register, copy machine, etc.) can't have a lien placed on it unless he SOLD it to you and you never paid him 'in full' for it, which isn't the case here. I don't think he can do anything legally except take you to court for the amount you deducted from his check (plus court/legal fees). Of course, if he DOES take you to small claims court and loses, he'll probably have to pay YOUR legal & court fees in addition to his own.
I find it interesting that eBay/Meg has remained totally silent about all this.....no doubt because they don't want to speak and get themselves involved (they're "only a venue", remember?!). Can't you see Meg being served with papers to appear in court as a witness in a dispute over unrefunded shipping fees for this armoire??????????? ROTFWL
Save EVERY DOCUMENT pertaining to this case, ESPECIALLY emails, letters, and voice recordings. If you haven't done so already, retrace every step, every conversation, and make yourself thorough notes. Prepare for an extended battle, because it may come.....and keep us informed!!!
[ edited by granee on Jul 7, 2001 11:16 PM ]
posted on July 8, 2001 08:20:11 AM new
no question that you were justified in deducting the shipping and ebay fees...
That said I would at this point refund the disputed amount and be done with him
you won't get far with a decent lawyer for 500 and evan then if this guy wants to make your life hell he can and there is little you can do to stop him
there are often stories in the paper of peaple with restraing orders comitting harm on those who they were restraind against
time for pragmatism to prevail....the best path for being done with this person now is to give in to him quit fighting ,don't worry about the princapal of the thing just refund his money and go on with life.
posted on July 8, 2001 10:21:52 AM new
The budget is tight right now. We foolishly did not list for a full month evaluating whether or not we would continue as sellers or not. Now summer is slow as it usually is. I have been known to bend over backwards for a nice customer, but he has been far from that. I don't think this guy should be rewarded for being an AH.
I will let you know what the police say when I meet with them.
posted on July 8, 2001 10:46:51 AM new
daleeric
You mentioned you have developed a facial tick, your business is off you are worried over what he might do to you your family or your husband.
I agree he should not be rewarded but so what at this point your goal should be to get this guy out of your life as soon as possible
my suggetion is if the $500 in question will do it it seems to me to be the most expediant way out.
Police lawyers and court orders can only do so much if this guy wants to make your life miserable this could go on for years with him doing minor things that may not be illegal but could be annoying plus you would constantly be worriying about what is next.
YOU ARE RIGHT ,HE IS WRONG but do yourself a favor and get him out of your life whatever it takes
posted on July 8, 2001 03:28:52 PM new
I think the guy is just beating his chest. He'll threaten and call and email, and maybe even write a letter or two. But when it is all said and done, you have documentation that you did everything necessary (assuming the facts are as you state) to placate this buyer. I sure would hate to see you refund this buyer. It would be a reward for his behavior and threats and only encourage him to continue to act this way.
Let him win this and he'll continue to act this way and only become worse with the next person who crosses his path. If he loses this one, he may rethink his way of interaction with others.
If you refund any more, in his mind, he's won and validated his behavior.
Not my name on ebay.
posted on July 8, 2001 04:34:19 PM new
Paying the guy is no guarantee that he will back off and leave you alone. You might just be throwing money at a lost cause.
I would wait to see if he files any sort of lawsuit against you and go from there. Find out if you can petition the court to have the hearing moved to your jurisdiction.
Is there any way that you can make a "person to person" phone call and speak to the wife? Maybe she is not aware of what her husband is doing or perhaps she can talk some sense into him.
Hang in there! You surely do not deserve to deal with this nonsense!!
posted on July 8, 2001 08:50:48 PM new
I don't know if talking with the wife would do any good. I think they are playing a good cop bad cop game. There is a small percentage of the population who believe they are justified in what ever they may do, or a "sociopath." I don't know if giving the money back would help matters any. This is real shipping and E-Bay fees that have been already paid for. The budget just does not allow an expense of $600.00 right now.
He stated in his letter that we breeched the contract by offering installation and not providing it. They state that the "delivery team" said they had never put an Armoire like that together. When he called me, the first word out of this mouth was "they send Mexicans to assemble this piece and I don't want them damaging it." I don't know whether it is true that the guys said they didn't know how to put it together or not. I have a tendency not to believe anything that he says. He will manipulate the truth however it will benefit him best. If they didn't know how to put the piece together, that should have been the first words out of his mouth instead of racist remarks expressed with destain.
It seems that the Mexicans are at the heart of your problem, and this bigot don't think that Mexicans are aloud to do hard work.
I am uphauled by there befeif that Mexicans are unable to do difficult tasks.
We Mexicans are coming to the USA by the millions and we will soon be a majority here. Once the Chicano culture takes over, maybe attitudes will change.
posted on July 9, 2001 10:00:53 AM new
Raygomez,
I think many of us who have been following this thread feel the same way you do. I think mostly attitudes have changed-- unfortunately there will always be a few (in any culture) who will resist change.
Daleeric-
I agree with you. I would not refund the money. Partly principle, but also I know that when things are tight, they are tight.
Here is hoping for a profitable month for all.
If you e-mail me [email protected] I can assist in information about restraining orders. I'm the founder of a small group that helps women who are victims of domestic violence. While this isn't the exact thing, I do have contacts to find out the requirements for restraining orders.
I will say, if you live in Virginia, they won't give you one. Virginia is one of the worst states to try and get a restraining order.
A restraining order is not the only option, but I'll need to communicate with you in a more private setting to go over options. Any information you give us is kept strictly confidential.
posted on July 9, 2001 10:18:26 AM new
I don't agree that "Mexicans" are at the heart of my problem. Prejudice is really the heart of the problem. If anyone is intelligent enough watch the history channel, you can easily view the evils and suffering that resulted from Hitler's prejudice.
My problem is that I happened to hook up with a buyer that didn't have their oars (spelled right?) in the water, to say the least!
posted on July 9, 2001 11:04:12 AM new
I've read about thirty percent of this topic and I think the person refused delivery because the Hispanic delivery crew did not speak English. I'd love to hear the other side of the debate.
Daleeric calls these people racists in the first paragraph and things seem to have gone downhill from there. There are two sides to every story and the other side of this one has been very deficient.
I personally have an immediate distrust of people who blame all their problems on racism.
You should have read 31% to get a clearer picture.
Based on the statement this man made, it's evident he is either a racist, or for a brief moment in time suffered from a bout with racism as it relates to this ordeal.
I am VERY conservative and hate to see the race card played. But this is one case where it seems to fuel all those who would play the race card in ridiculous scenarios.
posted on July 9, 2001 03:44:40 PM new
I'm sorry to see that this thread re-surfaced.
Here's my two cents:
1. I, like ValleyGirl, think this is just a chest pounding baboon. He's gonna make a lot of noise, but I see very little result coming from all of it. He's trying to verbally intimidate you, and that's all.
2. You have no basis for a restraining order, and getting one would probably just increase the degree of animosity and may trigger him to do something stupid.
3. Under no circumstances give the money back. Document each and every contact with this buyer, but do not respond to anything he sends you. The one thing that I've discovered over time is that ignoring people causes them more distress that all the responses in the world - most folks can't stand being ignored and will imagine you're doing/planning things much worse than you are.
4. I wouldn't even go to an attorney unless he really sued you. Why throw any more money after this guy until he does something that absolutely necessitates it. He can't just file a lien against your property, and if he tries to, he'll end up owing you some nice $$$$. Only way he could lien you would be to sue you, get a judgement and file the judgement in your land records - not something that's gonna happen overnight.
My opinion, he'll slowing run out of steam if you don't give him anything to react to.
posted on July 9, 2001 05:18:53 PM new
I spoke to my friend who has been a practicing paralegal in our state for 15 years. I told her that our E-Bay Buyer cashed the check and she said, "Well he's done." According to her, "the Buyer could only do two things not cash the check and sue, or cash the check, and accept the terms that the refund has been paid in full and then the matter has been concluded."
In retrospect, I think that the husband "played the race card" because he never wanted the armoire and his wife did. She probably does nothing but shop in order to tolerate the relationship. Or perhaps he is a racist, sometimes it makes some people feel superior to put others down.
I agree with "mlriche" we will not respond further to them. "I stated in my letter that with this refund check I considered the matter to be closed." I am not going to engage in any more conversations with them unless it is in court. Restraining orders don't do much except get the other person angry. I will still let you know what was written on the check when I receive the copy. Thanks! D
posted on July 9, 2001 06:50:33 PM new
I've been following this thread from page one & I never thought I would say this but, now that your buyer knows where you live, give him his money back. Being right & no amount of money is worth the safety of yourselves, your animals & your home. I would get rid of this unstable bigot, get my life back to normal & sleep at night. He's not going to quit & if he looses in court he will resort to something else. I can't shake the feeling that this will not end unless he gets his money or his revenge. I KNOW how hard it will be to give in after all you've been through, loosing this amount of money will not change your life in any way though, but whatever action your buyer takes outside the law can.
Everyone here is firmly on your side & wants to see you win, but winning just may be paying this sicko off.
posted on July 9, 2001 07:30:17 PM new
mcjane, I beleive she said she cant afford to refund her the remainiing amount right now. I dont know what to say, and even IF she does somehow get the $500.00 to give back to this fellow, no guarantee he will EVER go away, Parasites/cockroaches has this way of NEVER leaving you alone. They might resurface 2 or 6 month later. I know. I had troubled bidders, even after refund, comes back months later for blackmail. No guarantee.
Why do you think the delivery crew didn't speak English?
It astounds me how many people believe that Hispanics do not speak English, limited English, or poor English.
I'm a Hispanic woman who can BARELY speak SPANISH (grew up in the middle of nowhere Midwest-not a lot of opportunity to practice...)
Racism & prejudice don't have anything to do with a person's skin tone. It's all in the hate, fear, & ignorance of person discriminating - whether it be against women, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Jews, Muslims, gays, etc.
I'll probably get canned by one of the moderators for saying this but I think that getalife should getaclue.
posted on July 10, 2001 07:03:11 AM new
Its funny the wife said that the drivers didn't look like they spoke English, but they do. Probably because the husband was was ranting and raving and the drivers were most likesly being careful about what they said not to inflame the situation.
posted on July 10, 2001 07:59:12 AM new
I respectfully disagree with mcjane. I don't believe in buying off extortionists,
(I know the word is mispelled, but I don't have my glasses on and don't have time to look up the word)
It only encourages them and gives them more power.
You seem to have excellent documentation, so what if he sues you in small claims court? Take your docs and have your say with the judge. You don't need an attorney and if you remain calm and factual, I believe you will win. As far as filing in "civil court", the court clerk will tell him that the proper avenue for that dollar amount is "small claims" court. Court clerks have a lot of power, and one of their jobs is to be certain that cases are filed in the proper "venue".
When this guy told you that he was going to drive to San Jose and talk in person to "Meg", that was the most glaring clue that this guy is all mouth and no action. I agree that you should not respond further to him unless it is a subpoena to small claims court. Then, reply to the court and follow through. Are you both in California?
Not my name on ebay.
[ edited by Valleygirl on Jul 10, 2001 08:00 AM ]
posted on July 10, 2001 09:18:37 AM new
I have followed this thread from the beginning, but have not responded until now. My opinion is that you ABSOLUTELY NOT refund his money. Why should you? I think you should: figure out how to block all of his e-mails to you so that they are returned to him undeliverable (I'm pretty sure this can be done...maybe someone else here knows how to accomplish this). This way you don't even receive them, and you don't have to get even more aggrevated by their content. I assume you've already changed your telephone number and that it is unlisted? I assume you've already changed your contact info with ebay? (I either saw in this or another thread that you can get a free voicemail on onebox.com, and I've already done that myself.) Get a P.O. Box asap if you've not already done so (I'm sorry that I can't remember if you've already done this.) Also, make sure you block him against bidding on any of your items in the future. I agree with most everyone else who suggested you just get your records together, "just in case". I work at a law firm, and there's no need to take any action yet at this point. He does sound like a bluffer, full of hot air. He is most likely just getting his "kicks" for the month by harassing you this way. Ignore him and he'll stop. Just like the pouty 3 year old who screams in stores for the toy they want!!
If you make it impossible for him to contact you via e-mails or by telephone, then he'll pipe down and move on to someone else. I honestly do not think he'll show up at your door. TAKE CARE and try to remember that this is the worst buyer you'll ever have to deal with. You cannot possibly run across anyone like him again.
I am a bit annoyed that ebay safe harbor hasn't gotten more involved in this and at least issued him a warning, etc. But am I surprises? Unfortunately, no.
[ edited by nicepolice on Jul 10, 2001 09:35 AM ]
posted on July 10, 2001 09:35:50 AM new
Siddielou: By your own admission you have not lived around Spanish speaking Hispanics and I quote; "I'm a Hispanic woman who can BARELY speak SPANISH (grew up in the middle of nowhere Midwest-not a lot of opportunity to practice...)."
For six years I drove a plant truck to Homestead, Florida and had many dealings with Hispanics many of whom owned the nurseries I bought plants from. A great many of the empoyees could not speak English at all or spoke it with great difficulty. Once I took a wrong turn and ended up in a Spanish speaking neighborhood and not one person could give me directions. All I got was "No speak English" with a Spanish accent. For the owners of the nurseries, many of whom are of Hispanic ancestry, a fluent English speaking employee was a great asset. So, due to my personal experiences it isn't hard to imagine Hispanics who don't speak English.
If the delivery crew did not speak English I think it understandable that the "bad guy" who refused setup may have had a good reason for doing so. On the other hand he may be the jerk described.
Moderator: I personally thought the getaclue pun was quite good. Also, in the first few(4) postings of this topic the subject was called a racist, an azzhole, and there was a sarcastic comment on a "KKK...blanketwrap delivery service" with no comments from the moderator.
Again, I will admit to not having read the whole thread but I wonder; has the subject been invited to join this thread?
I just read the above post and maybe the reason safe harbor hasn't gotten more involved is they have heard both sides of the story.
Please bring your moderation questions or comments to email at: [email protected].
Also, as long as there isn't any identifying information discussed about a Buyer or Seller within a thread, that is acceptable within the Community Guidelines - the rule about having to invite the Buyer or Seller to a thread is no longer required as per the CG's.
posted on July 10, 2001 11:26:39 AM new
If the subject were invited to join the thread, I would leave the thread. NicePolice made some very good points. I don't want to have further communication with this person at all. It seems they are like the 5th grade bully who demand all the little kid's lunch money or would beat them up.
Perhaps this will fade away if we do not respond. I don't know what could be gained from further correspondence we have quoted state law and this guy still believes he is right. No matter what I say, I will not change his mind so what's the point?
I did change my phone number, PO Box remained the same, and got a voice mail box.
I telephoned my association today and told them the whole story, they don't believe that we did anything wrong. The buyer should have accepted delivery, even if the piece was not assembled by the delivery team. They could have had a professional come in at their convenience and assemble the piece. Assembly of this armoire is easy, I think my little niece could do it. I could then have easily gotten them a refund of the assembly fee and would have made it a point to do so. Unless stated in the auction, the seller is not obligated to arrange for the assembly or have the purchase assembled. If they want to use the furniture as firewood after they buy it, it is simply none of my business.
posted on July 10, 2001 04:58:20 PM newironking & valleygirl Thank you so much for politely disagreeing with me. Too often someone with an opposing view gets really nasty & I certainly wasn't trying to anger anyone.
I hope your right as most posters agree with you about not refunding, including daleeric.
Jane
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