posted on July 11, 2001 03:14:21 PM new
For eBay compliant Pay Pal logos, all you have to do is go to your account and click on the "SELL" tab and then click on "manual logos" and you will be offered a selection of ebay compliant Pay Pal logos and the necessary html. I cut out all the extraneous stuff (like the "I prefer Pay Pal" line) and just use the logo itself.
I dislike Billpoint both as a buyer and seller for lots of reasons. As a seller, I can't stand the way Billpoint switches the logo to "PAY NOW" when an auction ends even if you didn't set it up for instant purchase. Also, when you list through AW and you have Billpoint as an option you get the big logo set up in your auction heading AND the little icon at the bottom. The listing is about my item, not about how to pay for it. I also don't like that Billpoint takes a percentage once when the item is paid and once when they deposit your money.
As a buyer, it also drives me crazy to click on the PAY NOW logo only to find out you really can't because you don't know the shipping charges yet. I also prefer to deal in cash rather than credit, and Billpoint makes the buyer wait for 3-5 business days before my eCheck "clears"...with Pay Pal the buyer gets the money the second I send it. I only use Billpoint if the buyer doesn't take Pay Pal.
Gerald
"Oh but it's so hard to live by the rules/I never could and still never do."
[ edited by NothingYouNeed on Jul 11, 2001 04:01 PM ]
posted on July 11, 2001 03:28:43 PM new
I hate to ask a stupid question, but why doesn't PayPal just switch their logos to something that is eBay legal?? It seems kinda dumb to let sellers have their auctions cancelled.
posted on July 11, 2001 03:51:06 PM new
VidPro2, that is an interesting article. Couple thoughts.
First, BidVille is #2 to eBay and (according to Ed Orlando) a "major contender?" Sigh, we're doomed.
Second, I think an automatic pay system is a great idea. I get 20-30 deadbeats a month, and spend countless hours sending "gentle reminders" to customers who have no intention of honoring their bid. Auto-pay is the only solution, IMO. But why rely on Paypal? Why doesn't a new auction site simply offer its own transaction service?
It seems to me that any company that lies down with Paypal should expect to wake up with fleas. How could AuXpal have been so naive to build their web site on the word of Paypal, without even a contract between the two? That seems incredible.
Fountainhouse, I think Yisgood was quoting (and disputing) another poster.
NothingYouNeed, I recently read an auction which struck me as odd. Just a short text description, no photo. Then about a half page of third-party banners, Paypal, Billpoint, Visa/MC, etc. Visually, the ad did much more to promote the services than to sell the item. It was almost as if the item description was auxiliary to the third-party advertising.
It also makes me think what a huge cash cow the OAI has become for those companies, and how sellers are carrying so much extra weight on their shoulders just to support the bloated mass of third-party service providers. I know, buyers love Paypal. But you've kinda got to kind of wonder, who's working for who?
posted on July 11, 2001 05:08:29 PM new
Fountainhouse: Read my post again. I did not say that there were NO complaints against Paypal. I said very much the opposite. What I did say is that I have not seen any complaints about accounts being restricted over one charge back. The posts you provided are not about those either.
The problem with trying to get information off a forum such as this is that you have to try to separate fact from fiction. It's like looking at a seller's ratings. What ratio of positive to negatives is acceptable? Would you buy from a seller with 1000 positives and 1 negative? Five negatives? Ten? And you also have to read the comments. Do they make sense? Was it really the seller's fault?
In my opinion, looking at the picture in totality, I can't accept Paypal's excuses. Yes, they are the biggest. But there are too many reports where Paypal exacerbated the problem or even caused the problem, too many cases of Paypal ignoring calls, emails and faxes. If I found an ebay seller with a thousand positives and ten negatives for not shipping to the buyer and all he had to say was "I can't comment" or "You know I'm a big seller," I don't think I would bid. Would you?
posted on July 11, 2001 06:01:46 PM new
Question for Jereth?
Is that old or modified code you are using for your PayPal logo? The reason I ask is because I'm pretty sure that when I was recently using that type of PayPal logo the Visa/MC symbol graphic was not a clickable link to PayPal, only the PayPal button that came before it was. As it stands now it seems like you have 1 double wide (by eBay standards) PayPal clickable logo.
I always assumed that the reason PayPal made them 2 seperate graphics and only theirs clickable was to skirt the eBay rule since technically the VISA/MC logo was not a link to them. If mere proximity were the real issue they would have to cancel every auction where the seller lined their payment logos up (BidPay, PayDirect, etc.)
Yep, I just went to paypal to test the code for the standard "verified" logo with Visa/MC symbols and only the PayPal button itself is linked:
<!-- Begin PayPal Logo -->
<A HREF="https://www.paypal.com/auction/pal=YOU%40YOUREMAIL.COM" target="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://images.paypal.com/images/lgo/logo3pv.gif" BORDER="0" ALT="I prefer PayPal, the #1 payment service in online auctions!"></A><img src="http://images.paypal.com/images/cards2.gif" width="85" height="27" border="0">
<!-- End PayPal Logo -->
Maybe changing your code would help you keep the same logo without running afoul of some bored eBay rep?
posted on July 11, 2001 06:32:10 PM new
Thank you, bemused, your answer is actually the 'right' one. Our auctions carried an old style link (that looked to my untrained eye like the NEW 'conforming' link).
Having said that, and having spent additional time with eBay this morning, their intention was emphatically to deny us the use of this style of Paypal logo (I do not believe they picked up on the old logo / new logo difference as you did). In fact, our powerseller rep told me that they were told to advise power sellers that the current Paypal logos were NOT conforming.
To their credit, we received an unsolicited phone call this morning from a PayPal representative(who definitely are watching the AW boards for trends and news, BTW), and she was very helpful in getting this resolved. I sensed frustration on their part on this entire issue with eBay (although I may have just seen a mirror of my own frustration with eBay). We have an 'interim' PayPal logo running now that another AW reader was kind enough to let us link to. We have no picture hosting facility of our own.
In a sense this is a good thing, as it has given me the opportunity to redo our auction template and increase our shipping/handling charges to reflect increased costs from every darn person we do business with. I have no idea why no one but eBay sellers seem to see inflation in this economy but I see it in every avenue of my business.
Finallly, as an aside, I noted today (while comparing our s/h rates to other eBay dealers) that total Music CD offerings on eBay today were 133,000 (down from 200,000 last time I changed s/h rates at the first of the year). I suspect a large number of dealers and inventory have moved to half.com, but it certainly caught my attention.
posted on July 11, 2001 07:07:47 PM new
No surprise at all to anyone that keeps up with whats going on eCommerce. We dont use PP but I already knew several months back that ebay is going to require ALL external advertising be stripped and they can justify it.
eBays GOOD businesses need compete against rouge vendors who use third party payments. Many folks have noted the new levels of hostility from eBay buyers, there are REASONS. There are REASONS that the federal government is now looking into regulation of the web.
Anyone who can see past their own nose can see the writing on the walls. I do find it remarkable that eBay wants tougher spam laws on one hand, then turns around on the other and says we are against Web regulation... Well which is it?
I could call 3 or 4 congress critters and virtually guarentee after such a conversation they'd be facing regulatory measures.
Whats happening here folks are sellers defrauding consumers, sales of goods illegal for resale where MAJOR amounts of money are leaving the USA and ending up in Asia. China's economy has not had the LARGE boosts from normalized sale. There are literally BILLIONS of dollars flowing into their economy from products stolen from US based business, duplicated, then being dumped all over US consumers and US consumers LOVE the better prices. What those US customers dont realize is you are literally KILLING the only part of YOUR economy viable for tomorrow.
Many studies have been don on this. Virtually ALL of them are saying in a 10 - 20 year time span American's will not only be HUGELY unemployed but between the national debt and the "piracy" of US technology being "sold back" to consumers that it will make the Great Depression look like a kids game.
Right now China has for example as many installed TV sets in use as the USA, its projected in 5 years that there will be 400% MORE there than here causing places like Time Warner to go "hmmm". In fact Time Warner has publically stated that the asian market is going to be HUGE making the US market look quite small and they WILL cater to it whether US citizens like it or not. PUBLICALLY.
Computers? Same scenario. Our federal government contrary to what people think are right now 101% basically under China's foot. Do you think GW Bush wanted to sign the preferred partner trading status w/ China? Especially after that plane debacle? The answer is NO. But, America's hand right now are TIED nearly completely. If we dont "play ball" then the Chineese government can turn a blind eye to piracy of technology and resale on our markets, if it runs rampant you can have all military might in the world and its WORTHLESS. If the chineese government turns a total blind eye to this piracy of software, video etc. and just lets folks over there duplicate as much as they like and dump it on western markets, its all done. The US will have a financial collapse the likes unseen ever in our history and you can bet our "western partners" will flock to China.
I cannot BELIEVE how crooked US citizens have become quite frankly. They'll buy something they know is a copy or illegal to say money. Well, then dont tell your kids not to steal. Dont get upset when some street drug addict takes your car at gun point or steals from you or someone steals you credit card info.
You folks all need to start reading whats going on out there as if your a US Citizen all that fraud, all those illegal sales, and all that money you THOUGHT you saved is going to cost you your lifestyle, freedom and economy. The Bush adminstration as much as I dislike Mr Bush is pushing for internet related businesses to GET ACTIVE in preventing these issues and you can bet your bottom dollar that starting this year the IRS is going to be frying sellers who dont declare incomes over the VERY hot coals to set examples. You can also be sure that IF you buy things for resale and are not a bonified business you better act damned fast and become one or look forward to prosecution by the state authorities you live in.
The ENTIRE online eCommerce game is "not changing" it HAS changed and its due to low lifes who sell people stuff that is stolen basically and ALLLLL the money leaves the USA, Your USA, your economy, YOUR jobs and in turn YOUR the folks buying your own "economic graves". THats the reality and ANYONE who does even the slightest bit of reading/research right now KNOWS it.
Heck, Shows like Dateline on TV have even expunged on it. Meg is responding to congressmen and women for several reasons.
1. eBay is now the target of businesses who get ripped off and since eBay never acted on any of it they went to authorities as have consumers.
2. This year its been PUBLICALLY stated by authorities that they will be going after illegal resellers and anyone capitalizing for profit that are NOT "in business" and throwing maximum weight of law at those people to set examples. If your buying stuff in garage sales or book liquidators and reselling it for profit you ARE a business, its that simple. If your not registered as one, not paying your proper taxes you CAN go to jail. Going to be ALOT of REAL unhappy folks this next year. One of my best friends runs a regional collections firm thats decent sized. These "financial nets" of banks, collections, IRS are ALL intertwined. He already informed me 3 months back that the IRS is gearing to audit TONS of people with whats deemed "more than normal" amounts of bank activity. So if you get 50 checks a month dont be surprised, your going to answer for it and best have your ducks in a row.
As to eBay removing external advertising this is NOT an eBay attempt to monpolize their marketplace, its an attempt to reign it in and PROTECT the good people and the site.
When users pay via paypal and get hosed that DOES effect eBay causing them to have angry users and they have ZERO control over it. If I were eBay I'd be soliciting sellers who dropped PP for letters explaining the various problems that caused them to drop the service. That would be considered by PP as predatory.
However, NOTICE how FAST PP jumps on eBay for system bugs. If anyone should be jumping at eBay its the users if they see fit. PP is a venue of payment, not a VENUE of control of PP users yet CLEARLY the statements made as to eBay "purposefully" targeting PP sellers due to a "bug" shows their intent. PP knows if its not for eBay then PP is no more. I look at em' as a bunch of ticks on eBay. Here eBay providers buyers/sellers a service and all these "mites" jump on controlling sellers/buyers, removing rights of sellers and buyers via terms of service that are at best a bad bad joke than any banker or smart (even not so smart) businessman would scoff at.
If you want to see eBay survive and still be there for you then A. Support the site thats suppoting you, use Billpoint. B. Dont support services who could care less about you or the seller but simply want their money, more and more of it for performing a service thats negating your rights by having YOU sign off on them. C. Get proactive at the site if you ARE a buyer and start bringing the fraud/illegally sold items to the sites attention. eBay cannot act on say an illegal copy of something UNLESS they are informed. If they do, they are no longer a "venue" and every lawyer w/ a tie will be ALL over them.
eBay in THAT regard actually IS a community. Just like ANY community you MUST be proactive in making it a nice place, a safe place and a place not open to fraud/illegal resale.
Alot of folks yell because eBay is starting to cater out to sizeable businesses. Why? You think thats what eBay wants? Your way way off. They have NO CHOICE. They either make movements towards working with legit businesses or they are "all done" because the fraud levels and illegal resale are going to result IN regulation that ENDS the site's viability.
Go READ my friends. Right now your living in the United States of China as THEY hold the key to YOUR future, your kids future and the longeveity of a VERY short lived nation in the scheme of the globe. They hold that key because US citizens will "take a deal" if it saves them money be it illegal goods or not. Cutting ones own throat basically.
Then again, perhaps its what America needs. Maybe it'll take the arrogance out of the masses and display to them how big of fools they have become. I'm born and bred American and proud of it. I am not however proud of what the Internet has done to Americans. Between sicko's and porno sites, people who care about nothing but themselves perhaps an economic collapse in favor of Asia is whats needed to make American's realize that we dont own the world and we are a MINORITY not the majority.
posted on July 11, 2001 07:59:51 PM new
Whynot, I always enjoy your posts but this time I am skeptical. However, this much I do agree with:
"They either make movements towards working with legit businesses or they are 'all done' because the fraud levels and illegal resale are going to result IN regulation that ENDS the site's viability."
I sell software. Take a look at the Featured Category listings and you will see that 99% of the items listed are infringing collections of copyrighted software. The so-called "mega-CDs." They're nothing more than a bunch of crapola someone downloaded from the web and put on a CD.
It's impossible to compete with these items because buyers think they are getting a deal for $5. And they don't care whether it's illegal or not.
But the fact is, eBay is turning a blind eye to it. eBay knows damn well what's going on and they are doing nothing to stop it. The policies they have enacted mean nothing because they don't enforce those policies.
For example, last year eBay enacted a "no CD-R" rule. No homemade CDs may be sold unless the seller is the copyright holder. But complain to eBay and here is the response you will get: "We won't close the auction unless the ad states explicitly that the disc is CD-R." So, if you're a buyer complaining to eBay, forgetaboutit.
Any halfwit could look at the listings and observe that 20 different sellers are selling the exact same, identical, pirated disc, and all claiming to be the copyright holder to the thousands of programs on the disc. But if there's any way eBay can sweep this under the carpet or look the other way, they will. Fact is, those CDs bring in a LOT of money to eBay, and that is the bottom line.
Yes, there are bootlegs too. And eBay's policy is clear on this. They will not police their own auctions or end an auction unless there is threat of legal action via VeRO.
Poor little eBay, but they made their own bed. If eBay can't or won't police their site, then federal regulation IS NEEDED. And obviuosly eBay has no intention of cleaning up their act. That's why Meg got called on the carpet in front of Congress. How long do you think the feds are going to buy that "only a venue" crap? For about two seconds, that's how long. Because fraud is rampant at eBay, and any insider knows eBay does nothing to stop it.
No, I don't think that eBay will result in the downfall of western civilization. It takes the government time to catch up on what's been happening. Sellers not declaring income, eBay becoming a breeding ground for con artists. But with eBay's growth, oversight by the feds is inevitable and I have a feeling the legislature is not going to like what they find. eBay may be able to pull wool over the eyes of a bunch of disorganized flea marketers, but bluffing Congress is a different story.
Lastly, nobody is forcing eBay to enter new retail markets. They were a huge financial success long before they started wooing e-tailers. Nobody is forcing eBay to become an online K-Mart, and they are doing it for nobody's benefit but their own. It's greed, not civics, that is behind the changes at eBay. And if they can't or WON'T police their own site, then some external pressure needs to be applied.
. Internet Pioneers
posted on July 12, 2001 04:20:28 AM new
I took my logo off a long time ago. Between eBay's and PayPal's perpetual changes, I really didn't want to bother with something that had little or no effect on my sales and made my page slower to load. Since they made the referrals into a Catch-22, there's absolutely no reason to give PayPal free advertising.
posted on July 21, 2001 10:06:58 PM new
Well, here we go again. Latest letter from PayPal says they have conferred with the electronic bay, and the PayPal logo with the little MC and V cards is OK.
Goodness graciousness; take it off, put it on, take it off, put it on. If I could dance, all I would need is a runway, a pole, and someone to hand me dollar bills.......
posted on July 22, 2001 12:51:57 PM new
peikik,
yes,there is a way for preventing paypal,paydirect,billpoint from removing money from your account,all you have to do is to remove offering their service to your customers.
amzn has one click payment and no one complains but billpoint was overshadowed by paypal in the beginning when paypal offered 10 later 5 dollars to entice subcribers.
now all that efforts will be lost if paypal is banned from ebay.
i have talked to my banker concerning chargebacks,if you are accepting deposits from them ,there is no way to block them from taking fund away from you.
it is not like AOL subscription which is a one way street of taking money from your account,you can sign a paper and ask your bank to block aol.
you can sign papers to block paypal,paydirect and billpoint but the consequence will be they wont be able to deposit fund in your account
posted on July 22, 2001 05:14:42 PM new
My billpoint payments go into an account that I use for that purpose exclusively. Then I empty the account very regularly. If there is nothing there, it is hard to take $ out.
posted on July 23, 2001 01:33:35 PM new
Marie, I am sorry eBay decided to play hardball with the top ebay seller. I can see how ebay decided to do so though. I read your ad listings and see that you do NOT TAKE BILLPOINT:
"We accept PayPal, Bidpay.com, Money Orders, Personal Checks and U.S. Cash (sent at your risk).
But....
Canadian and International customers must send us either U.S. Cash, or pay us with a credit card through BIDPAY or PAYPAL. We are not able to accept foreign-issued money orders or cheques of any kind.
"
Gee, talk about making ebay mad. Their top seller does not take their OWN payment service. Right when they are shoving billpoint down people's throats. You know ebay SHOULD becareful. Now while you would lose good money if you stopped selling on ebay and they suspended you, I could see a PR nightmare here.
"Ebay targets one of their largest sellers, and uses monopoly tactics."
In the age of Microsoft Anti-Trust, this eBay is starting to sound like it might be next.
