posted on August 2, 2001 07:19:44 AM
Good Morning All
I agree with the neg. TOS not being effective. The buyers who usually pay quickly will, and the one's who don't aren't going to be influenced by the threats anyway. I love a TOS that states, "Payment would be appreciated within XX days". As long as that time limit isn't 3-5 days. I usually pay with online payment companies, so for me it's not a problem. But when I see that in a listing, I figure the seller isn't too flexible.
twinsoft - I've seen many sellers share how difficult it is when buyers don't include a userid or auction number. I often wonder how many sellers actually ask for that in their EOA email. I know when I first started buying I didn't know this presented a problem for the seller.
oldapostle - Of course there are times when sellers just can't post the exact s/h/i charges. The item such as you described (others did as well) would be hard to pre-state a total. As a buyer, I understand that is sometimes the case.
What I guess what I'm looking for is a seller who lets me know, in their description, there will be no 'hidden' surprises in the EOA notice. Like if a TOS says something along the line of "actual USPS shipping charges" or "actual USPS shipping charges plus $X.XX for handling". Or, I've seen some sellers state, "I only charge you what the USPS (UPS) charges me to mail the package to you." Then, as a buyer, I can be more comfortable there will be no surprises.
I've probably bought approx. 450 - 500 items from sellers, in almost 4 years. While you (collectively) might be very honest and try your best to offer 'fair' shipping costs to sellers, my experience has been that there are many who pad the fees quite a bit.
Maybe I've become so cautious as it appears to me (from my experience) that sellers who don't put s/h/i in their TOS are usually the ones who are charging more than reasonable fees. Kind of like, if they don't say they're charging the $7.00 shipping, instead of the $2.00 the other sellers (of like items) are, then they won't get the bids. And I am not referring to those 'difficult to pre-state charges' auctions, but rather ones where it would be very easy to so state.
posted on August 2, 2001 07:25:57 AMbut we as sellers, can't afford to pay your shipping, out of our pockets.
Just wanted to add that as a buyer, I would never expect you to pay my shipping, I just ask you (sellers) don't gouge me on it.
But... Please know that I'm an equal opportunity shipping fanatic. If you ship me an item and it costs you more than I paid you, I have always sent the difference to my sellers. If I've paid via an online payment service, I also include your acceptance fee. Fair is fair to me, so it works both ways.
posted on August 2, 2001 08:14:19 AM
I have read this thread, and to be honest, I'm ashamed at many of the posts here.
I am a seller (as most of you all know) but I am also a buyer.
When I bid on an item, I look at PRICE, SHIPPING, PICTURES, SELLER'S FEEDBACK, and what PAYMENTS they accept. If it's an item I want, and it's a reasonable price, I'll bid.
Who cares if it's in CAPS? What if the person selling has bad eyes and typing in CAPS is easier for them?
Who cares if they have the POWER SELLER'S logo on their auction? (This is the dumbest reason I've ever seen for not bidding). I am a powerseller, and no I don't have the logo on my auction, but I would never NOT bid on someone's auction just because of that!
While I can see why a long TOS would make someone not want to bid, I am an excellent buyer, so a long TOS wouldn't bother me. Any buyer who pays immediately (or at least on time) should not have to worry about threats of NEGS if you don't pay. I personally think the only ones who should be turned off by long TOS are those who aren't very responsible buyers.
So what if the item has a high BIN? If you don't want to do a BIN, just bid instead of BIN!! I have had extremely high BIN's on several auctions - if someone wants it badly enough, they do a BIN! If not, they start the bidding at a much lower price.
Regarding poor grammar/spelling in auctions - how do you know that person is not very well educated and is doing the best they can? Can you understand the description anyways? I think this is a very poor excuse not to bid. Very sad to pick on less educated people who are trying to get by.
If there is missing info about the auction - simply EMAIL THEM AND ASK THEM!! It's free! It doesn't cost a long distance phone call to ask a question to a seller! I am amazed at how many people are just too lazy to email the seller to ask a simple question!
There are several other posts here that I do agree with and don't agree with - but these are the ones that really irritated me when I read them.
If you made up one auction and avoided EVERY SINGLE complaint here, you would NOT have an auction. You wouldn't have anything.
posted on August 2, 2001 08:53:17 AM
"If there is missing info about the auction - simply EMAIL THEM AND ASK THEM"
The problem is when I am looking at items to buy I am ready to bid. I do not have time to e-mail and wait for a reply etc. I have very little time in the day as it is. If the seller cannot include all pertinent facts - like Size, shipping fees etc. - then they lose.
It is my option to buy from someone else. This thread is to help sellers understand why they may not get bids. We, as sellers, shouldn't be perturbed but see that everyone has their own opinion and like it or not they are the market we are selling to. So if you choose not to cater to that market - then you will be the one with less bids.
As a buyer:
I will NOT e-mail questions to sellers - will pass the item and buy from someone else
I will NOT bid on sellers who do not accept PayPal - will pass and buy from someone else
I will NOT bid on sellers who put actual shipping or no shipping at all - will pass and buy from someone who puts exactly the s/h/i fees.
Just as I have the choice when I go to the mall to NOT buy from a store that does NOT accept debit cards - same thing on line in regards to PayPal.
As for my stance on s/h/i fees - I have been burned too many times with actual or nothing and have been slammed with ridiculous fees.
As for the questions - not time to wait for replies and half the time sellers never reply anyway.
All the reasons people WON'T buy can be called picky or we can learn that the market that we are selling in is picky and we can adapt or lose out to the one who does.
posted on August 2, 2001 09:01:12 AMYpayretail: You mention how you have very little time in your day, and how you don't have time to write to sellers, or wait for a response.
In that time it just took you to write up that post, and edit it, you could have emailed a seller with a question and possibly got an answer back already.
posted on August 2, 2001 09:04:05 AM
Of course, in that same length of time, the seller could have included the relevant information in the auction listing, eliminating the need for asking the question.
posted on August 2, 2001 09:07:41 AMMrP: Maybe the seller didn't know that a certain piece of information was needed? How will they know if they don't get requests for that info?
When I first started selling on ebay, I did not put in measurements, shipping prices, etc. I did not know it was necessary. Then, when I started getting emails requesting certain information, I realized that this info should be in my listings. I now put all necessary info in my auctions.
You can't automatically assume that every single seller went to "AW's classes on how to list on ebay".
posted on August 2, 2001 10:00:01 AM
"In that time it just took you to write up that post, and edit it, you could have emailed a seller with a question and possibly got an answer back already. "
EG -
I type very fast so that isn't the issue. My main issue is - when I pick 1/2 hour so buy or whatever - I want to buy. I have no time for follow up etc. If seller A has widget without size or pertinent info - then I move to seller B and bid. Besides the fact that seller A may take a day or so to get back with me.
Why are sellers selling if they do not put pertinent info in ads? I am not asking for unique descriptions -just basics. Designer, sizes etc.
I am buying what I see and read from the ad. I would not call a department store to get specifics on their ad they send around - either they market it to entice me with ALL pertinent facts or they don't. If they cannot even put size or shipping $ etc. - then I do not want to buy from them.
Who I buy from is my choice and those that have clear, concise ads will win - hands down everytime.
posted on August 2, 2001 10:03:17 AM
Hold onto your hat ExecutiveGirl, your not going to believe this...
I agree with you 100%!!!
Although I don't deny anyone the right to refuse to do business with a seller, I do wonder why the refusal is based on such PETTY reasons!
EG is right about a seller may not know that a certain piece of information is pertinent...plus it could be that the seller inadvertantly forgot to include the information. I know there have been times that I forgot to add the measurements on an item...and was very surprised when a potential customer wrote asking me about it.
The fact that someone is a poor speller doesn't mean their items are undesireable...nor does it indicate the person is lazy or that they will not package the item well.
But, if cutting your nose off to spite your face gives you satisfaction, then who am I to say you are being silly? To each their own!
[ edited by amy on Aug 2, 2001 10:05 AM ]
posted on August 2, 2001 10:15:58 AM
"But, if cutting your nose off to spite your face gives you satisfaction, then who am I to say you are being silly? To each their own! "
The problem with that statement is that I do not buy in unique categories - so the seller is cutting off their nose - not I. There are tons of sellers selling what I want - boys clothing.
To clarify - I could care less about spelling or powerseller logo etc. - those i think are silly. But basics like shipping and designer name - come on now.
IMHO -
If you are going to sell your items - do the research just as we all did. Go to closed ads in your category - see sellers who consistently SELL their items and look at their ads. Why do they sell?
You cannot expect to sell in a new venue without doing research on your market so that you can attract a customer base.
BTW -
Those that don't put measurements, aren't clear etc. - will go for a small amount and then some people will turn them around and list them ACCURATELY and make a profit. I know of two sellers who simply scour the listings for misspelled designers - ones that do not turn up in searches - etc. - they get great deals and re-sell for a larger profit b/cuz it is marketed correctly.
posted on August 2, 2001 10:20:27 AM
I learned years ago, "never say never."
While I'm turned off by a lot of what everybody else is discussing, I probably would bid if the item is something I've been looking for for ages and really HAD to have.
That said...why oh why do ANYTHING that will turn buyers off?
If nearly everybody agrees that shipping charges should be detailed in the listing, why not just do it (barring the kinds of difficult large-size items some have mentioned)? At the very least, put in your zip code and the approximate shipping weight of the item so the interested buyer can figure it out.
I'm a writer and editor by trade, and bad spelling and grammar is a huge turnoff to me. While I don't refuse to bid on auctions written up this way, I also don't see why listers with "spelling issues" can't learn to use a spelling and grammar checker, or ask a friend or spouse to proofread for them. You lose sales if you confuse Steiff (stuffed bears) with Stieff (silver)! Yes, I do occasionally deliberately include a misspelling in the body of the text, because I know that particular name is commonly misspelled and people will search on the wrong spelling. That's not the same thing as a nearly unreadable listing due to poor spelling, all caps, etc.
It's really pretty simple, IMO. Do everything you can to entice the buyer, and avoid, if possible, obvious turn-offs. Make buying your item so easy, the person can't resist.
posted on August 2, 2001 10:22:44 AMaren't clear etc. - will go for a small amount and then some people will turn them around and list them ACCURATELY and make a profit
This is very true. Spelling a keyword wrong can really knock the crap out of the price. Searching for these mistakes can net some bargins at times.
posted on August 2, 2001 11:14:42 AM
I have a question for you along these lines. Do buyers prefer seeing a colorful HTML template showcasing the item or is a good plain text description with a good picture sufficient?
posted on August 2, 2001 11:28:37 AM
Ypayretail...by limiting your choices you are only hurting yourself...but if that is what you want to do, more power to you
For those who say "why do anything that will turn the buyer off?"...the problem is this. No matter what a seller does, there will be those buyers who are not happy and who will "click out of the auction".
There is no way to constuct an ad or develop a TOS which will satisfy every single buyer out there. It is impossible! So, the seller develops what works for them even though some buyers may be turned off.
Just as the buyer has a right to refuse to do business with a seller and say "there are tons of sellers selling what I want", so too does the seller have a right to refuse to do business with a buyer and can say "there are tons of buyers out there who want what I have to offer and are happy to bid on my auctions under my terms"
posted on August 2, 2001 11:42:14 AM
"There is no way to constuct an ad or develop a TOS which will satisfy every single buyer out there. It is impossible! So, the seller develops what works for them even though some buyers may be turned off. "
The problem with this statement is that the seller isn't selling to themselves. They NEED to appease their buyers with their ad or they will NOT attract any bidders.
We aren't talking rocket science here. There are a handful of key issues that TURN buyers off. So if a buyer wishes to turn off their market - then they shouldn't #*!@ as to why they do not have sales.
I guess what you are not understanding is - I am not hurting myself. There are numerous boys clothing buyers with the same NIKE items who do list the shipping, who do accept online payments and who DO CONSISTENTLY get bids b/cuz of it. There are many other NIKE boys auction sellers who consistently close auctions WITHOUT any bids - and that is obviously why.
IMHO -
As a seller you play your game however you want. But those that want to be successful sellers will appease their customer base - that is marketing 101.
Sellers can list all they want and never sell a thing b/cuz they do not know the market, are too lazy to get measurements or list designers OR simply are uneducated enough to understand what works.
My buying requirements have never HURT me b/cuz I buy in a group that is saturated with LIKE KIND items. Therefore, a seller with the shipping and paypal is not hard to find.
NOW -
If I were buying in a collectible category and saw the buy of a lifetime - I would attempt to contact said seller. But that rarely happens as with little kids you don't have breakables
As for the template issues. Some look better than others - but are not required by any means. A good description with pertinent info and good pics is all that is truly needed to sell. Some templates look more professional and I think buyers like that. The only thing I am turned off is when it gets too busy - music, words buzzing around etc.
posted on August 2, 2001 11:50:18 AM
For the most part I do agree with EG that most of what is already discussed is simply irritating, and not likely to keep me from bidding. And I will email to ask questions if time permits, but an email is not going to clear up a bad picture.
Otherwise, to add my pet peeve to the growing list: Descriptions that state "good condition" or "excellent condition for age". Yeah, what exactly does THAT mean? If there is not time to ask, I won't bid.
Also descriptions that don't describe. "We're liquidating a large estate....blah, blah, blah" or "This came from an estate of...blah, blah" or other irrelevant stuff without giving any specific info on the item up for auction.
Edited to add: I know with some high $$ collectibles knowing the history is important, but that is not the kind of stuff I'm talking about here.
[ edited by BlondeSense on Aug 2, 2001 11:57 AM ]
posted on August 2, 2001 11:50:56 AM
Hi Amy and EG -
Maybe I could explain my reasons for not wanting to spend so much time emailing every seller who has an item I'm interested in.
As a potential buyer, when I'm searching for my items of interest, there are usually hundreds, sometimes thousands of listings to be viewed, even when doing an ending today search. (Which is what I usually do and in many catagories.) And when I'm just browsing, I might just buy something I wasn't planning to when it's well describe and all I have to do is bid. Lazy?? Maybe, but it's my money I'm choosing to spend, or not.
That being said, for me it's like you going to a garage sale or an estate sale and the seller has nothing marked, price wise. Sure you can ask the price of each and every item you're interested in, but it's so much easier when the seller has each items price right on it. Saves both buyer and seller their time.
Also more sellers need to realize (and I'm sure you two do) that a buyer cannot hold/see/examine an item and must depend on the seller to describe the condition, etc of an item.
Some sellers don't realize or make note of, in their description, the size or measurement of an item. When they've taken a picture of an item they know the size, but I can assure you the buyer doesn't, unless told. A couple of times I bought something and when it arrived it was much smaller than the picture looked to me. I didn't realize (at that time) sellers could adjust size and colors of their items. I've had items that I've purchased end up being a totally different color than they looked like on the monitor. The buyer hadn't listed the color, or said, "color in picture is correct". Just basic information to help make the trade go smoothly.
Please know the issues I'm sharing are not to criticize sellers, but to share things from a view point of a person who does more buying than selling. I liked what ypayretail said. You don't have to change a thing that you're now doing. Buyers are just sharing why they'll move on to another persons auctions.
(Buyers) are too lazy to get measurements or list designers OR simply are uneducated enough to understand what works.
Just because a buyer does not put certain info in their auction does NOT make them lazy. As I stated before, when I first started listing on ebay, I had no clue what ALL the info was that was needed in an auction. As soon as I found out, I added that info to all my listings. That did not make me a lazy seller - I was uninformed, and when a buyer asked me for certain info, I would add it to my auctions.
The only lazy ones here, are the ones who flat-out refuse to take the 2 seconds to email a seller to ask a question. Who knows - maybe that seller did not know any better, and thanks to the person who took the time to ask them a question - they will now be more knowledgeable because of it, and will be able to put that valuable info in their future auctions.
I find it ironic that someone who absolutely REFUSES to email a seller to ask a question because they "don't have the time" - are the ones who call sellers lazy because they didn't put certain info in their auctions.
Who knows - maybe someday you will need some "hints" on how to be more successful on ebay. I hope no one is "too busy" to help you out a little.
posted on August 2, 2001 12:02:36 PMThe only lazy ones here, are the ones who flat-out refuse to take the 2 seconds to email a seller to ask a question.
So, as a buyer, It's my responsibility to tell the seller how to do his/her job!!!!!
posted on August 2, 2001 12:05:09 PM
Sounds like this is becoming an arguement for argument's sake. If a buyer does not want to email a seller, that is his/her option. And it is certianly valid. And if you are a seller and want to know what will please more customers, it is good to take note of that fact.
I have already emailed a buyer and gotten responses days later. And often the responses have not clue to what the seller is talking about. Often the seller seems to assume that the buyer is only interested in their ONE & ONLY item and may not be looking around. I hate emailing the seller, unless it is something crucial.
I'm just saying for those buyers who flat out REFUSE to ask a seller a question, but expect to have the seller "know it all" is just not fair.
I'm sure when you first started listing on ebay that you did not know every single thing you know now. I don't think anyone did. We learned from each other.
I'm very thankful to my customers who took the few minutes to ask me questions, or to let me know that I needed certain information in my listings. I'm a better seller for it, and in turn, I make the buyers happy.
posted on August 2, 2001 12:13:33 PM
"The only lazy ones here, are the ones who flat-out refuse to take the 2 seconds to email a seller to ask a question"
Let me give you some background why I feel the way I do. When I first started buying some time ago - I always e-mailed with questions etc. Many, many sellers NEVER responded and others just plain said it is a childrens item - why measure. That is lazy.
As for those that are uneduated. IF you read what I wrote I did not say all without measurements are lazy - I also stated education as a key factor. IMHO - If you are going to open a b and m shop or sell online YOU as the business OWNER needs to do your research. There are thousands of sellers on ebay. Unless a seller asks for assistance you had better be VERY careful who you give your educated assistance to. Many could care less. Many get very offended and many just plain think it is A-OKAY to NOT include pertinent information.
So, what I have found out is that, unless asked, educating others is a WASTE OF TIME. 80% of the time - e-mailing for an answer to a question is a WASTE OF TIME.
There are tons of boards, books and sellers willing to help - buyers need to ask or come to these boards and learn. If they take ownership with their business - research will be conducted 1ST - NOT through trial and error and the hopes that someone viewing their auction will say what is wrong.
When you go to a NEW restaurant - do you tell the cook or owner each and everytime you think the food is prepared incorrectly or do you just leave the restaurant making a mental note not to return. The vast majority of people would leave - b/cuz they feel the cook/owner should know their market and what people in the area would like.
Again, if you start a business selling on line - why would you NOT do your research first?
Justifying sellers having sub-standard listings makes no sense to me. Sellers come here for help. Now those with sub-standard listings will come here and say - Gee, a couple people think I don't need measurements or shipping prices - so maybe I don't. And they will continue to list without sales and wonder why.
When I need assistance I come to the boards and ask the veterans OR I do research. You will go through a ton of auctions without winners or not going very high if you think buyers have the responsibility of assisting every seller with poor descriptions etc.
posted on August 2, 2001 12:16:12 PM
Don't get me wrong, I have helped more that one new seller. I have even pointed one or two over here to AW, but if someone wants to sell, it is their responsibility to do the research.
I usually pay with online payment companies, so for me it's not a problem. But when I see that in a listing, I figure the seller isn't too flexible.
