posted on August 2, 2001 01:04:46 PM new
ooops, as to programs:
right now is typical and I'm running:
CD Creator
Netscape & Netscape mail
a couple of utilities (clipboard + powerdesk)
Norton AV
Act (Plus a plug-in or 2)
ListGrabber
ReadIris (OCR Pen)
Facetwin (SCO term emulator)
Palm desktop
Word
Paint Shop Pro
Dreamweaver 4.0
Tony
posted on August 2, 2001 01:24:29 PM new
I think that that there will be a natural progression in computer literacy as we become more and more dependant on them. With knowledge, hopefully people will seek out the most reliable and well coded software. Not fall for the hype. My hype of GNU/Linux is only to help wake people up.
I'm perfectly happy being one of the minority when it comes to Operating Systems.
GNU/Linux is becoming far more than just web server software. It's becoming the leader in embedded software and there are some huge projects, that can only progress and mature, for the desktop. There are many apps that even open and write MS files.
there are (probably) millions of of hackers helping develope everything to do with Open Source Software. It's not there yet, but it will reach a certain level of critical mass to where it will, at least, change things for everyone, and at most, make a lot of people very happy.
I guess I'm a double loser...
I've been a registered Green voter since they arrived in CA. Somehow I'd rather be the underdog working for change than a person who folds up and accepts the status quo. Maybe the old punk rocker in me...
posted on August 2, 2001 01:33:43 PM newright now is typical and I'm running:
CD Creator Netscape & Netscape mail a couple of utilities (clipboard + powerdesk) Norton AV Act (Plus a plug-in or 2) ListGrabber ReadIris (OCR Pen) Facetwin (SCO term emulator) Palm desktop Word Paint Shop Pro Dreamweaver 4.0
Yikes, 12 apps.
How many hands do you have, you power user you
wish I had your RAM.
no need to post the other 24 or 36 or 48 to make up the "several times that"
I can only keep a few open at a time with the crap machine i have here at work...
arttsupplies (webmaster)
[ edited by arttsupplies on Aug 2, 2001 01:34 PM ]
posted on August 2, 2001 01:55:32 PM new
artsupplies:
it's no accident, I built the machine I use at work and running those apps is child's play. I actually left out a few! They are all used together, and I do the work it would take 3 people to do. I use a dual 1G PIII with 512 RAM and SCSI for throughput and less CPU load. I sometimes marvel at the little system I've got going!
You see I take rejected submissions to a Poetry ezine, scan the names and addresses into Listgrabber which converts/feeds them into an Act database, which writes the reject letter in Word with graphics added etc.... . At the same time accepted work is flatbed scanned, OCR converted and loaded into Word for the print publication. Then cut a pasted into a Dreamweaver template for the Web based issue. Ain't computers great (no matter the brand)?????
Tony
posted on August 2, 2001 02:15:20 PM newlougehrig1927
A baseball fan, I take it...
Interesting that you would want to replace a laptop with a desktop.....I trust the need for the laptop has passed?
FWIW, I run my machine shop business soley on Macs, the sole exception being that I run a OrangePC PCI card in the shop Mac computer to program the machines as that software isn't written for Macs.
My current Macs (iMacDVse, Powerbook 5300c, 8600/250 and 7200/90) were purchased used (with the exception or the iMac) and through eBay or Yahoo. They are all on an Airport wireless network (something I haven't noted being talked about here) and run a multiplictiy of MacOS's from 8.1 through 9.04.
I use MSIE and iCab for browsers, MYOB for business accounting, FilemakerPro for database, Appleworks for word processing, PhotoShop and Graphic Converter for image processing and Adobe Premier for putting together video presentations.
The single best thing about the Mac platform that I can say is that I have never yet been unable to figure out a software or hardware problem and fix it myself. In nearly 10 years of owning Macs, I have never called tech support even once. I taught myself about computers on Macintoshes...
The only equipment failure I've had over the years was a motherboard failure of a PowerComputing Mac clone....my oldest computer currently in use, the 7200/90, has over 40,000 hours of use in a very demanding environment (the machine shop) and it is as reliable as can be.
Many folks will argue which is better....I personally "love" my Macs, which is something I never thought I'd attach to a machine...you might find that common among Mac users. I really don't know that they're "better", just that I like them.....
As a historical note, IMO, the best marketer of the computer age has been Bill Gates (and Steve Balmer, et al)....he copied Steve Jobs idea for the GUI, which Steve copied from the amazing scientists at Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center)....All versions of the software were excellent, but Gates won because, IMO, he wanted everyone to use his software, even if it meant practically giving it away (much like services now are given away on the Internet to attract market share). Combining his marketing skills with the engineering expertise of the people at Compaq, who reverse-engineered the IBM PC and gave birth to the "clone" marketplace, Gates and what would become DOS and "Windows" became and still is synonomous with the desktop PC.
I operate my business as a stand-alone entity, interfacing with other computer systems over the internet only. This has allowed me to use the computer I "like" best. I would advise you to consider your specific needs carefully before making such a major investment.
As a side note, I am posting this from the iMac, which resides quite unobtrusively in our kitchen. It blends with the decor in a way no conventional PC ever could....and, besides, it looks "cool"!
posted on August 2, 2001 07:20:11 PM new
I will add my two cents to the fray:
I love MACs but have been using a PC almost exclusively for some time. The problem with PCs is that you can usually get up and running for less money, but you need to be very smart to maintain a PC when things go wrong or you make ANY changes. I spent the better part of 48 hours and $30 this week on maintenance to support a relatively minor software upgrade. I have years of professional computer experience and although this stuff is something I can do with no problem, I find it to be a major pain. How some little old lady in Podunk with her first PC is supposed to figure this out is beyond me.
MACs are almost mindlessly simple to set up. The problem is that you will get a blank stare in most any computer store if you want anything Mac and you will probably spend more to get started. The current state of the MAC is at a crossroads. When OS 10.1 is available this fall along with the latest version of MS Office, I will no longer consider buying another PC. Anything Windows that I might desire will run in Virtual PC inside of the MAC, so a lack of software is not an issue.
posted on August 2, 2001 09:19:02 PM new
You know if you look at this thread the "weaknesses" are touted as the "strengths" back and forth like a tennis match. Most of these things are traced to the evolution of the machinery. Apple was proprietary and IBM was a wide open shooting match. Most Apple software worked the same way so it is "easier". Thousands of manufacturers mean PCs are cheaper.
The problem in the real world is that most people are as stupid as fence posts, generally because they choose to be. During support calls I have to sit and bite my hand when somebody stares at a screen that says "hit y to continue" and asks "what do I do?". This person will say a system where F1 does the same thing here that F1 did in that other program yesterday is "better", and it probably is. Tech support and customer service are non-existant today because the public wants it that way (ie as cheap as possible).
So now we are going to send the little lady from Podunk to the big bad computer store and confront some idiot who can't stand and chew gum at the same time with a problem running an application under virtual pc on a mac. Oh!, the humanity! The only answer she is EVER going to get is: "It's dat virtual ding youse runnin."
In 15 years running Unix (all of my company's major programs are Unix based) we have never had a system crash and ANY software supplier we've used had support thoroughly versed in the OS and their product and could fix anything in minutes. But this is still brown penny loafers in a tuxedo world.
My statements in this thread were based on the question: How about a Mac as the only computer for the average person? The Mac guys seem to think I have offended their very fine machines and I think they leap to the defense with half-truths:
1) There's lots of Mac software! yep, there sure is, but what is the ratio? 1:100, 1:1000, come on you know it's even greater than that.
2) Macs are a "little more" expensive. I just bought an Athlon 1.4G cpu & mb for $240 to build a unit for someone. This is about as powerful as you can get for a personal desktop. Add a few hundred for the rest of the peripherals and its a fraction of the prices for macs in my newspaper.
3) stability is not an issue.
4) imac started a rage: see all the pcs in the cute designer colors?
Well like artsupplies so eloquently left his soapbox, I'll get off mine. If it was in my power to twang my fairy wand and make the world a Unix paradise I would, but it ain't gonna happen.
posted on August 2, 2001 10:58:42 PM new
This is going nowhere faster than a runaway train.
Mac is a cool interface. Sure Unix is groovy, but as a former PC user, I know my Mac has a lengthier "desklife" in my house.
I use filemaker pro, which makes access and excel look weak in comparison. I do invoicing for my main gig and my ebay stuff, it's a hot little database, but it's an architecture that means you can and have a bit of tweaking to make it a power item.
I can fire up my digicam or video camera and play around with image capture. (I lease space where there is a G4 for editing and that's as muscular as you can get...PC's just don't do it there, except for Avid - $$$)
Anyhow.
For an allaround household computer, iMac is groovy.
I am not a programmer, etc, I just love the ease of use.
BUT I don't use any auto auction preparation. So I cannot comment on software.
posted on August 3, 2001 03:29:03 AM newThe single best thing about the Mac platform that I can say is that I have never yet been unable to figure out a software or hardware problem and fix it myself. In nearly 10 years of owning Macs, I have never called tech support even once. I taught myself about computers on Macintoshes...
pat,
i agree with you 100%. i taught myself on my 1st mac, and have never yet had a hardware or software problem i couldn't figure out myself. they're pretty trouble-free machines, overall. love my mac! however ...
Is there "Any" "auction software" designed for a mac?
there is only one that i know of. the name escapes me at the moment. i'd really like to be able to use mr lister, or at least try it out.
so if your primary use is for auctions, macs may not be your best choice.
p.s. pat? from another thread a few weeks or so ago, the version of icab i was using that complained about all html but icab's site was an older one.
posted on August 3, 2001 07:17:14 AM newkittykittykitty
I've been using iCab preview 2.5.1, primarily in my laptop (because iCab is amazingly frugal with memory) and have so far had no difficulties accessing any sites I normally would with MSIE on my desktop computers. The graphics load differently on iCab and, in its final version, I believe it will give the user enormous control over what information actually gets to the screen. I wouldn't be surprised if ad-blocking software isn't integral in the final, Java-enabled, version.
Preview version 2.5.2 is available from their site and, as my 2.5.1 is still functioning, must be a recent addtion.
Then again, maybe I completely misunderstand your query...
I went to their browser test page and, with 2.5.1, all the elements of the HTML 4 standard listed showed up correctly on the page. Even the little smilie face at the top was smiling and green, meaning the page code was in strict compliance to HTML4 norms, something I rarely see on any web pages (the ones on my web site are full of errors...*G*)
If you have the thread handy that you were reading, I'd like to learn a bit more since iCab is my main interface with the Net when travelling ( I use Yahoo mail so I don't have a e-mail client).
At this juncture, I like the look and feel of MSIE better but iCab is much more customizable IMO and is a much smaller drain on computer resources.....my ancestry is the same as iCab's designers so I can understand the frugal, teutonic approach of their engineers...
posted on August 3, 2001 12:34:25 PM new
Well, might as well add my two cents in here...
We have both. We have many PCs and a couple of Macintoshes. In the last few months we are SERIOUSLY considering moving our operations to the Macintosh platform.
First, software. The Macintosh has all the software we use for auctions. Photoshop, GoLive, Word, illustrator, etc. If we need to play games, we can always keep a PC around. I have been working with PCs and Macs since BOTH were around in the beginning. And our databases are web-based linux servers and can be used in ANY browser, so that doesn't matter.
Second, stability. This is the single most important reason for moving over to the Macintosh. We use Windows 2000, 98, ME, and OS 9.1. Quite frankly, I am SICK TO DEATH of the blue screens. I cannot even COUNT how many times RIGHT in the middle of a major project or design, BOOOM, the PC crashes causing me to start over. And we don't have cheapo built PCs, and that is WITH Windows 2000 supposedly stability and updates.
The Macintosh doing the same design work, no crash. Breezes right along. Now productivity and frustration rate at the single most important thing. I don't give a darn that the PC have more programs than the MAC, I need stability.
I got so frustrated with the PC, I had one built with NOTHING in it but a Video Card and NIC, and used only the best components. Hopefully to help clear any conflicts. Didn't help much.
Third, the Mac is better at design work, which if you include photos with your auctions, is important. In the area of running an auction business, the Mac is far from being out of the league.
We will continue with both types, but will be increasing the Macintosh presence. We have them all running on the same network and share files pretty much seamlessly.
Myself, two new macintoshes are coming on my desk REAL soon.
posted on August 3, 2001 01:41:30 PM new
kerrigirl
I don't know WHAT in the heck you're doing, but we have maybe 100 PCs here with NT or 2000 plus I've built maybe another 40 for friends and in 2 years I would estimate there have been 3 or 4 OS crashes w. NT and 2 with 2000.
Did you perhaps get a RAM offer at half the going rate from some outfit and max out all the machines at the same time?
An interesting article on a Mac site:
http://www.applelinks.com/mooresviews/swoon.shtml
I was reading another industry article about MS/Apple relations. It seems that the Great Satan (also known as Bill Gates) is getting very annoyed at Apple (he and Jobs are well known to hate each other, but will of course bed down for the $ sake). Well the jist of it was that GS is trying to get Apple to toe the line OR ELSE. He is reportedly annoyed that the money he pumped into Apple went mostly to pay for Apple's lawsuit against MS. Now he's saying (it's claimed) that because of Apple's small market share and the new OS, Microsoft may not spend the money to develop further software versions for Apple. He has supposedly presented a laundry list of stuff he wants for Apple.
He wants Explorer pkg with Mac - He got this.
He wants Apple to abandon Sun's Java and switch to MS. Apple is saying no.
MS was being sued by Sun for putting it's own tweaks in Java. MS recently announced it will no longer support Sun Java!
I think the next year is going to have tremendous impact on all of us and i think we will see for once how much power MS has. Think of the arrogance of them doing a lot of this at the same time the government is suing them!
Tony
posted on August 3, 2001 03:14:43 PM new
I have been in the computer world for a long time... so I am not a novice here.
However, I tell you want I am doing. I am pushing 2000 to its limits. My design system has (2) 75GB RAID 7200RPM drives (IBM), 1GB of RAM, Radeon VE dual display video card, and is a DUAL processor Pentium III-800 (133MHz) bus. All components are excellent quality, and the RAM is Micron (not the value editions). I also have a 3COM NIC card in it.
However, I run perhaps 20 applications at once, and perhaps a ton files that I am working on. Yes, I push the machines to its limits (that is why I have an extra machine just to handle e-mails, etc). I expect with the heavy duty hardware I have it should be able to handle it. I can do the same work on the Macintosh, and its handles it just fine. Heck even video work is easier on the Mac.
I will admit I am not the casual user, more of a PowerUser. I got so pissed at the previous machine I had (PC) and had it dismantled for parts. I had a new one built to better specs. Did it help? No. While I have better stability due to increased performance, it still does not get rid of the blue screens.
I wouldn't be surprised if ad-blocking software isn't integral in the final, Java-enabled, version
that would be great! as for the memory frugality of icab, that is one of its great appeals
i only made a fleeting comment in the other thread, responding to your mention of icab. not worth looking it up. i'd already trashed it, so i don't know which version i was using. who knows, maybe i'll give it another shot. can you use it for listing on ebay? if so, how does it do?
after using netscape for eons, i got frustrated by its multiple reloads (i'm on a dial-up, slow enough as it is without reloading the same $@# page 2-4 times!), so was in search of a solution. since aol took over netscape, that was out of the question. wasn't that impressed with icab, except for it being an anti-memory hog. tried opera - so-so. finally downloaded i.e. again. hate to say it, but i like it best too.
oh, to the person who wanted to know about mac auction software, i've remembered the name - pre-lister for macintosh.
posted on August 3, 2001 04:20:10 PM newkittykittykitty
I probably worded the phrase you referenced incorrectly....I should have said "would" be surprised if the ad blocking software wasn't a part of the final version...
As arttsupplies noted, there are many of the same features built into iCab that are in ad-blocking software such as WebFree....
My fervant hope is that iCab's designers won't succumb to commercial pressures when launching their first release and omit or water down these features; conversely, I hope they strengthen them further...
I've been following iCab for around 3 years now and have watched its evolution from a clunky, no-frills browser into one that IMO can rival MSIE in browser features and speed, but without much of MSIE's overhead.....I've all but given up on Netscape....sorry to say...I still have version 2.02 on my laptop as a remembrance of the good old days...
posted on August 3, 2001 06:40:29 PM new
I love this thread!
I have some random observations and thoughts that may or may not apply. Stick'em where you think they fit.
1) People seem to be loyal to the OS they first learned on. I learned on a Sinclair Z81 ROTFLMAO
2) Some Mac fans interpet criticism as ant-Mac prejudice.
3) The iMac and iBook are fashion statements first and computers second. It is a denial of that statement to add extra boxes(bigger screens, speakers, floppy drives, etc). Why didn't Apple make something like a BigiMac with a 17 or 19 monitor?
4) Interested parties may want to check out the August 2001 MacAddict Magazine. Here is a quote from the front cover:
50 Biggest Mac Problems (and How to Squash 'Em!)
Sad Macs? Bombs? Macs that won't boot? Operating systems that won't cooperate? These are the visions that plague Mac users with nightmares. Get the solutions to your most vexing Mac problems and finally get a good night's sleep.
From what some Mac fans tell me, I would think that Mac owners never, ever have problems with their Macs(What never? Well, hardly ever!)
5) I am very impatient with people who cry about their computer woes, regardless the OS. I have a very, very cheap PC (cheapness is part of my ethnic heritage) I have a Celeron 366 with 128meg RAM on a noname microATX motherboard and Windows98se. As I am writing this I am running:
IE
Outlook Express
Auctiva Manager
Auctiva Poster
Adobe PhotoDeluxe HE
Paint
WordPad
ExifViewer
System Monitor
Resource Monitor
MediaPlayer (listening to WMSE. Wonderful!)
Pagoo
AdSubtract
Everthing works exactly as advertised. No crashes here! I will admit that PhotoDeluxe slows down when so many apps are open and when I have a number of pics to prepare for auctions I close down most everything else. Also, I need be be careful when I print with my Lexmark. Sometimes when I shut of the PC without first closing Lexmark the PC will "hang". I simply can't imagine what people do to their PCs that cause so many problems. The only time I've had a BSD was during a heatwave when my PC overheated. Added another case fan and problem solved.
[ edited by iowaantiques on Aug 3, 2001 06:47 PM ]
[ edited by iowaantiques on Aug 3, 2001 06:52 PM ]
posted on August 3, 2001 10:39:51 PM new
Iowaantiques:
I just threw out a bunch of Sinclair stuff! Atari 800 too. Did you ever sweat trying to come up with the $ for that 8k Sinclair memory cartridge???
I think you're right about the Mac crowd. We think of our computers as appliances, they rally around a cause. They have the FAITH. The problem is faith can be used to deny facts. My training is scientific. I could never look at the statistics, check the horizon and predict "well, it will turn around and we will be VICTORIOUS!!!!" That Mac site I quoted above mentions there is nothing in the pipeline for more powerful processors. The PC world is already passing 1.7G. The current MS line is they will not create a new Office version for the new Mac OS. What happens then?? There is absolutely nothing showing Apple going anywhere but down.
The whole thing is completely analogous to VHS vs Beta. Sony ruled and decreed with Beta. JVC licensed VHS out to everybody and his brother. VHS gave consumers what they asked for firstest with the mostest. The Beta crowd would say "Beta is Better". The tech mags of the time would agree that Beta had better spec. effects because of the tape path but video was virtually the same. VHS got cheaper and cheaper, Beta sales dwindled. Still they said "Beta is Better". My friend owns the oldest video store in NJ. In the beginning we bought titles in both VHS & BETA, then we had to tell people that "that title is not being released in Beta" Beta people bought a VHS and had both formats while whispering "Beta is Better". Then we had to tell them "I'm sorry only Sony makes blank tape for your machine.." and they screamed "Don't you understand!!!!! Beta is Better!"
Of course I'll get ravaged for this but heck I didn't do it, the marketplace did.
Tony
posted on August 4, 2001 01:22:48 AM newSad Macs? Bombs? Macs that won't boot? Operating systems that won't cooperate?
From what some Mac fans tell me, I would think that Mac owners never, ever have problems with their Macs(What never? Well, hardly ever!)
in all the years i've used macs, i've never once experienced a sad mac or one that won't boot. never ever. really . bombs, yes, long ago when i knew next to nothing and was trying to do something ridiculous like running photoshop on 8 megs of ram. i don't know, maybe it was less than 8 megs; it was a long time ago. uncooperative os? hmm, well that's awfully broad. extension conflicts yes, that's happened.
and right now my present mac is Mysteriously and Annoyingly slowing down; i have no idea why. (if anyone has a clue, *please* tell me!) but that's about it.
Why didn't Apple make something like a BigiMac with a 17 or 19 monitor?
i don't know, but i think that's an excellent question.
I still have version 2.02 on my laptop as a remembrance of the good old days
i've got a copy archived.
i'd be willing to give icab a try again if i could use it to list. so have you listed with it? how's it work?
as far as the ads go, the only ones that really annoy me are the pop-ups, pop-unders, or whatever other pastry name they can go by. but thanks for the info. and you, too, arttsupplies.
posted on August 4, 2001 06:29:27 AM new
As an authorized apple service provider I have seen my fair share of the flashing question mark problem (usually means the system software has become corrupted) In 15 years I think I might have had one or two machines with a sad-mac or bomb. They just don't happen a lot! The flashing question mark is an easy, well-documented problem to fix. Compared to some of the frustrating windows issues that can arrise, I'd rather work on fixing a damaged mac OS then a damaged windows OS!
I also agree that a 17" or 19" imac would be great. However, the Mac community believes that apple may be headed in another direction with their iMacs. It has been rumored that the next version of the iMacs will be a flat-screen model. If this happens, you will have a sharper screen and larger viewable space. It's not at all a far-fetched idea, considering that Gateway already has a unit using this technology (their all-in-one model).
kitty3 - it sounds like you may want to try defragmenting your hard drive. Do you have Norton Utilities? If you do, boot off the CD, run Disk Doctor, then run the defragmenter. If you've never defragmented before... this is probably your best solution.
posted on August 4, 2001 12:01:04 PM new
Just a short note:
Leave Macs where they are most useful: in the print shops and publishing companies. PC is the way to go for personal home use. It is much more user friendly. I know personally. Macs are great and geared well for composition/layout/output for the printing and publishing industry. They are absolutely not necessary for home eBay use and I would never consider a Mac for home use even if I were paid to use it. You bring the balls and I'll bring the bat!!
I guess I'm a double loser...
. thanks though.