xellos
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posted on August 1, 2001 06:39:16 PM
guys!
I just received an email from Paypal that said someone had filed a charge back for an auction item that ended 2 months ago.
After I mailed out the item, I haven't heard from the winner at all! Not even one email. The bidder didn't leave me feedback either. Since she was really she was a new user, I thought she probably didn't care. So, I left her good feedback and thought this transaction ended there.
Paypal demanded
1) Tracking Number of Shipment
2) Shipping Company Used
3) Shipping Insurance Information (if used)
The shipping service the buyer used didn't include any of the confirmation service. So, other than the shipping company, I have no clue if the item got to them not.
What should I do? Paypal already took the funds out of my account and it's at pending stage right now.
Help, help!
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thekismeme
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posted on August 1, 2001 06:57:10 PM
Well this is going to be an important lesson for you..........you won't like it but your money is gone and unless you can prove that the package was delivered to a Paypal verified address.
Before you get upset with Paypal ~ this is their policy ~ they are not just picking on you.
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mcherry
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posted on August 1, 2001 07:00:29 PM
This is not the answer you want to hear, but you probably can't do anything. If you can't prove shipment, you're out of luck. I hope it's not for a large amount.
For future reference, it's not a good idea to give a buyer a choice of shipping methods if they're paying by credit card. Use only a method that can be tracked online (Delivery Confirmation or Express Mail if you're using USPS).
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xellos
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posted on August 1, 2001 07:06:25 PM
I found the receipt from the postoffice. But I mailed it from a Canadian post office and all they provide it the amount of money and that, (no zipcodes or anything to track)
should I email the bidder and find out if they haven't received it or has problems with it?
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rebeang
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posted on August 1, 2001 07:13:18 PM
I would send a friendly e mail to the bidder, asking if there was aproblem. In addition, does the Post Office there offer a trace on packages? i.e., a form you can fill out with the package info and the ship date, etc., that would allow them (PO) to begin trying to trace the package? I would offer to do this if the item has not arrived.
I have a Texas customer who has not yet received her book on half.com. That is what I offered to do for her. For some reason, books take forever to get to Arizona or Texas. Why?
Anyway, I digress. Offer to do all that is in your power to alleviate the problem. But, be prepared to lose your money and the item. I would still proceed with the trace if it is available to you. Good luck!
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xellos
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posted on August 1, 2001 07:18:36 PM
thanks, rebeang. But as far as I'm aware of, Canadian post office simply don't have any type of tracking slips unless you ship express or register.
I just sent an email to the bidder asking the reason for the charge back.
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mcjane
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posted on August 1, 2001 07:36:58 PM
Anyone know if there is a time limit on chargebacks. Seems like a year old sale can come back to haunt you. Surly there has to be a limit.
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capotasto
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posted on August 1, 2001 07:41:01 PM
"should I email the bidder and find out if they haven't received it or has problems with it?"
Duh!
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jlb444
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posted on August 1, 2001 07:42:44 PM
this is why I like Stamps.com. You have a record it was sent. Plus I do a Delivery Confirmation on every sale. I have not had one customer complain about paying for the delivery confirmation. I never charge any handling fees or anything like that just priority shipping and delivery confirmation.
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xellos
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posted on August 1, 2001 08:02:45 PM
yeah, the thing is Canadian post office lack these tracking things. (sign deeply)
I'm still waiting for the bidder to reply me. I sent them a relatively nice email, very polite considering the shock I had received from an actual charge back.
This is so frustrating.
If the charge back goes through regardless of the seller's situation. Then can't we file charge backs on all the things we buy and get money back? Does it affect your credit report in anyway?
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roofguy
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posted on August 1, 2001 08:57:14 PM
Anyone know if there is a time limit on chargebacks. Seems like a year old sale can come back to haunt you. Surly there has to be a limit.
Federal credit card statutes protect consumers, not merchants. Thus, there is no legal protection for merchants in any condition at all.
VISA/MC protect merchants to some extent, by having their own rules on what member banks can do. However, these rules are not offered to the merchant as hard protection.
Generally, a chargeback is alowed up to about 6 months, and is allowed with a good explanation up to about 2 years.
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roofguy
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posted on August 1, 2001 09:01:21 PM
xellos, sorry to hear of your report.
Generally, unless you have hard proof of delivery to the buyer, the buyer can succeed in a chargeback claiming non-delivery.
That is why PayPal's seller protection is very valuable. PayPal protects a seller who ships to the verified address using an online trackable proof of shipping (in the context of the rest of the rules being followed, but these are two crucial ones).
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hwahwahwahwa
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posted on August 1, 2001 09:08:19 PM
xellos,
can you justify a phone call to your bidder,sometimes like ebay often said,issues do get resolved over the phone instead of emails.
it is not unusual that the package is still sitting at the post office becaue they did not leave a pink notice at the mailbox or it get overlooked or tossed out with all the dominoe pizza flyers.
i recently shipped a package to toronto and buyer keeps complaining that she did not receive it and that she said she called canadian customs (no record ).
it turned out that post office did not leave her a notice to pick up the package,the customs showed no record becasue there is no customs duty .
so all is well.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on August 1, 2001 09:52:13 PM
PayPal's seller protection program is barely worth the paper it's printed on. All a buyer has to do is say the item was misrepresented- PayPal will say "Okie Dokie", take the money back from the seller, and there's nothing you can do.
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mcherry
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posted on August 1, 2001 10:09:52 PM
The outside limit for most credit card chargebacks is 120 days from the time the cardholder gets the first bill the charge appears on. Visa and Mastercard seem to believe that 6 months is a safe maximum time for sales to be "safe". When I closed a brick and mortar store four years ago, V/MC required me to keep that business checking account open for six months, in case of chargebacks.
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apreissler
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posted on August 1, 2001 10:24:41 PM
I'm confused about paypal chargebacks. Do buyers go first to their credit card company, which then gives the chargebacks to paypal? So the regular card rules don't really apply?
If anyone wants to ask questions directly of the guy who runs PayPa, I see he's doing a chat Thursday on The Washington Post Web site:
http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/zforum/01/washtech_walker080201.htm
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xellos
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posted on August 2, 2001 06:06:39 AM
yup, the buyer claimed they never received it. well...anyways.
does anyone how we go about doing a charge back? Should we call the credit card company?
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vargas
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posted on August 2, 2001 06:22:41 AM
That is why PayPal's seller protection is very valuable.
Except there is NO PAYPAL BUYER PROTECTION PROGRAM for international transactions.
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kiawok
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posted on August 2, 2001 07:12:08 AM
xellos
Was the package insured by Canada Post?
If so, then call Canada Post & tell them your customer is claiming it did not arrive, and ask them to investigate.
If nothing else you'll be able to claim on the insurance for a lost parcel.
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xellos
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posted on August 2, 2001 09:36:45 AM
nope, the item was very small and our good canadian post service don't insure little things they have to be bulky.
what's good is the bidder just left me a negative feedback too. man! the rage i'm going through right now...  anyone know how I should respond to this?
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cin131
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posted on August 2, 2001 09:45:31 AM
I'm thinking about opening a paypal account, and now I have a question. I always insure my auctions, but I'm wondering, for proof of delivery, does the little green insurance form provide enough proof?
If there is no money in your paypal account, can they still do a chargeback? Can they actually take the money from your bank account?
Is paypal worth the risks? I see a fair amount of problems on the boards here regarding paypal, but I also have about 75% of my buyers trying to connive me into taking paypal.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on August 2, 2001 09:52:28 AM
for proof of delivery, does the little green insurance form provide enough proof?
No.
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gs4
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posted on August 2, 2001 11:00:27 AM
Welcome to the wonderful world of internet fraud. So many people have now found a great way to get the goodies for free. [chargebacks]
I have seen so many threads where people got nailed even up to a year later. Even if they have left you a nice feedback stating how happy they are with the goods, means nothing.
Taking CC on line is a huge risk, If you do not have them standing in front of you to sign that sales slip, you are up the creek.
Take Bidpay or postal money orders for payments. Only you can decide how much risk you can live with. This is the only true protection you will get in this life.
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Microbes
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posted on August 2, 2001 11:13:57 AM
Welcome to the wonderful world of internet fraud.
I would love to know what % of internet fraud is by Sellers, and what % is by Buyers. Either one is wrong, but I see so much about bogus charge backs, buy and switch, etc, that I think a good % of the fraud is by buyers.
The bright point (if there is one) is that fraud by buyers or sellers is a very small % of the total business conducted online. That doesn't help when your the victim, and if it's on a large transaction, it can really hurt.
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xellos
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posted on August 2, 2001 12:19:10 PM
it does hurt.
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kiawok
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posted on August 2, 2001 01:02:49 PM
our good canadian post service don't insure little things
Sure they will, but you have to pay extra.
The item can be shipped at Parcel rate [instead of Small Packet], and/or you can ship expensive items via Xpresspost USA, or send them registered.
Xpresspost USA or Registered mail is the only way you can prove to PayPal that the item was indeed shipped from Canada.
Sorry, but at this point you're SOL.
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vargas
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posted on August 2, 2001 01:28:56 PM
Xpresspost USA or Registered mail is the only way you can prove to PayPal that the item was indeed shipped from Canada.
You can put all the proof of shipping you want on a package from Canada --PayPal won't care! The seller protection "guarantee" only applies to transactions that originate and end within the United States.
You're in Canada, so you're SOL.
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wbbell
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posted on August 2, 2001 02:10:37 PM
Yes, xellos, I concur with the others. No trackable online proof, SOL. But you're in Canada, so it was a moot issue to begin with.
I sympathize with you and I know it is irritating, but take a deep breath, have some chocolate ice cream or something, and know that you are better than the deadbeat!
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hwahwahwahwa
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posted on August 2, 2001 02:34:20 PM
the green insurance slip for up to 50 dollars show zip code and date of shipping,is that good enough for paypal??
also,if customer does chargeback,seller can claim loss with usps??
yes.no??
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nicepolice
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posted on August 2, 2001 02:58:18 PM
JUST ONE MORE STORY ABOUT A CHARGEBACK.
YOUR SOLUTION IS SIMPLE: TIME TO DUMP PAYPAL.
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