posted on August 7, 2001 04:28:14 PM
Actually I would imagine the wording is more to prevent or at least give some basis to deny redemption of the coupons when the manufacturer suspects they have been collected JUST to reedem. I had a small store once and people always wanted to use their coupons so I checked into it. Seems to redeem these store coupons to the manufactures you have to have quite a few. They like them "bundled" much like you do $$. I would have to give the discount immediately but wait to redeem them until I had say $100 worth! Each manufacturer has it's on "how to redeem" policy. Anyway, this was really not feasible for me, BUT there are coupon clearinghouses (yep they are a business all on their own) that would allow me to send them MY few little coupons worth maybe $5. This coupon clearinghouse company would deduct a small % from my $5 and send me the money right away. Then they will collect all the little guys coupons and when they get enough to bundle together and send the manufacturer they get their money at full coupon redemption price. All they really make is the small % they charged me. However, do this for millions of coupons and you have made some bucks! I do not know how one becomes a coupon clearinghouse.
However, our local grocery was in the habit of having their clerks clip all the coupons out of the paper and they would send them in along with the actual coupons brought in by paying customers. I do not know who turned them in or how it was discovered, but they NO LONGER CAN ACCEPT COUPONS. I do not know if they were charged with fraud or had to pay a fine or if anything other then their right to accept/redeem coupons was cancelled.
I do know it made a lot of folks around here really upset that they could not use their coupons anymore!
posted on August 7, 2001 04:43:00 PM
It is simple: the manufacturer's don't want anyone ELSE to make money on their products. They also don't want people to REALLY use the coupons. It's all advertising. Much like those MAIL-IN REBATES.
I would also LOVE to see them prosecute on a value of 1/100th of a cent. How many would you have to distribute to be consider a felony?
2.5 Million coupons.
So remember, don't transfer more than 2.5 million, or you could get the death penalty.
Prosecuting for one coupon would not even be worth the cost of the paper the complaint was filed on, paper still costs more than a penny (usually).
posted on August 7, 2001 04:46:19 PM
Also...on many of the coupons(at least these here from the 80's)says it will give the retailer 7 or 8 cents per coupon for handling.
In the 70's I managed a small grocery store and your right sulyn1950 you did have to accumulate a certain amount before redeeming.
Also my brother-in-law owned a small grocery store and many of the coupons I had he couldn't use as he didn't sell the product.
They are alot stricter now, the stores have to prove the inventory to match the coupons used.
posted on August 7, 2001 04:48:59 PM
It is simple: the manufacturer's don't want anyone ELSE to make money on their products. They also don't want people to REALLY use the coupons. It's all advertising. Much like those MAIL-IN REBATES.
I would also LOVE to see them prosecute on a value of 1/100th of a cent. How many would you have to distribute to be consider a felony?
2.5 Million coupons.
So remember, don't transfer more than 2.5 million, or you could get the death penalty.
Prosecuting for one coupon would not even be worth the cost of the paper the complaint was filed on, paper still costs more than a penny (usually).
posted on August 7, 2001 08:05:03 PM
What if you went to the dollar store and bought a coupon keeper and then filled it with free coupons (listed, of course ) and then auctioned that off?
As far as the question about the paperboy "transferring" the coupon and invalidating it that arguement wouldn't fly because he/she is part of the distribution chain. If that were the case then the printing company would "invalidate" it just by sending it to the newspaper.
Transfer refers to the actual legal transfer of the coupon.
The coupon is basically a contract with the maufacturer setting the terms. They can't prosecute - that's for criminal matters - but the manufacturer could file a civil suit if they really wanted to expend that amount of money. Unlikely but it's their right.
posted on August 8, 2001 07:52:57 AM
siddielou: Actually, you could be criminally prosecuted for fraud.
packer: Get a life. I'm not full of anything. No one is forcing you to do the right thing. We're just discussing that it IS, in fact, illegal to sell or transfer (most) coupons.
tomwiii: If it was YOUR mattress, then there is no issue. I hate that joke being used in movies, etc. where the owner tears off the tag. Big deal! It says on the tag that the owner is the only one who CAN tear off the tag.
posted on August 8, 2001 08:43:26 AM
"What do you suppose 'Void if transferred to any person, firm or group prior to store redemption' means?"
Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I *am* a writer, so I'll take a stab at it, strictly for entertainment purposes, of course.
The way I read it, unless someone's revised the english language recently, it means that from the moment you get it, you're prohibited from using it.
The only exception would be if you're the actual manufacturer of the product and coupon -- since you'd be the *only* entity that could possibly be in possession of the coupon *without* having it transferred to you!
posted on August 12, 2001 08:56:23 PM
Actually the reason that is printed on the coupon is because of Store owner Fraud, not consumer fraud. Store Owners were buying tons of coupons and sending them in for redemption when they didn't have the stock to cover it. Many were prosecuted for this. I seriously doubt that anyone at my grocery store will know that the "poptarts" coupon I am using, was "traded" for or why would they care, as long as I am legitimately purchasing the product specified? Isn't that what the whole idea of putting out a coupon to begin with?
peiklk, you must be a cashier, grocery store manager or that guy that works for CIC, if this bothers you so much. At least I hope you are! I would hate to think that you were this bothered by something that didn't affect you directly. Life is too short for that!
[ edited by goodbuys2 on Aug 12, 2001 09:07 PM ]
posted on August 12, 2001 09:45:02 PM
Actually, no. I'm a programmer.
I just remembered reading that selling the coupons was illegal. Then when I was search ebay, I was shocked to find illegal items being sold. So I doublechecked and posted it.
I've made pretty clear in my comments here that it doesn't bother so much in practice as in principle. If they laws were changed, who cares! However, while it is presently illegal, it should be enforced.
posted on August 12, 2001 10:17:44 PM
Here is what it says on a Colombo yogurt coupon...Void if altered, copied, sold, purchased, transferred, exchanged or where prohibited or restricted by law including LA, ND, & NV. One coupon per purchase of specified product. I would say that after reading this label that it is illegal....I never coupon so this is really interesting. I guess I worked to hard to come home from work and do couponing. Do they really save you money. I mean is it really worth it.
posted on August 12, 2001 11:46:09 PM
"The sale or transfer of coupons is a violation of virtually all manufacturers’ coupon redemption policies. These policies are generally printed on the coupons or is available from the manufacturer upon request. The sale or transfer voids the coupon."
Manufacturers do not make our laws. It is not illegal to sell or transfer the coupons, it is only against the policy of the product manufacturer.
To use another enity we are all familiar with as an example...on ebay it is against the rules to link to other auction sites, and to do so will subject the ebay user to disciplinary action...but, it is NOT against the law to do so.
Transferring the coupon may void it but it is impossible for the manufacturer (or merchant) to know the coupon has been transferred...there is nothing on the coupon that connects it to a specific individual, so that "policy" is pretty much an empty threat as far as the consumer is concerned.
These manufacuturer's policies are meant to stop the dishonest merchants from purchasing masses of coupons that had not been used to purchase merchandise and then turning those coupons in for cash. Back in the 70s there were many markets, big and little, who did this.
posted on August 12, 2001 11:53:59 PMpeiklk: thank goodness ya cleared that up for me! The guilt I've been suffering has been agonizing! I feel like a new man! Tomorrow really is another day!
It is most definitely worth it. Your success will depend on a variety of factors (what you like to buy, if you have double coupon stores, if you also do rebates, etc). I go to the following site frequently. The people there are really friendly and will help out a newbie if you are interested in finding out more.
posted on August 13, 2001 09:19:25 AM
Amy said it just perfect! I highly doubt that anyone would ever be arrested for using a traded coupon; it pretty much just violates the manufacturers policy.
posted on August 13, 2001 10:05:09 AM
The reason for the prohibition by the issuers has nothing to do with prosecuting a transfered coupon user.
The "handling fee" is in addition to the value of the coupon.
Many small stores or even prople who don't even have a store will buy coupons and redeem them to the issuer without the products ever being purchased.
If you buy a 50 cent coupon for 10 cents and redeem it for 58 cests, that's quite a profit margin, and then multiply that profit by thousands of coupons.
Some of these outfits were redeeming coupons in the millions of dollars before they were caught.
posted on August 13, 2001 11:04:48 AM
Whether someone is every actually arrested for their crime does not make their actions less criminal. Period.
The crime exists when it is committed -- not when the person is caught or charged.
Transferring the coupon voids the coupon. Using an invalid coupon IS FRAUD and FRAUD is a crime.
Now, the reality may be that no one would ever get caught giving a coupon to Aunt Bessie or swapping them with friends, or playing poker with them ala Mr. Mom. But the fact remains that this is still illegal.
Just as jaywalking is illegal and speeding is illegal.
Not every violator is prosecuted, but every violator is guilty.
That being said -- it would be easy to "catch" those selling coupons because they are doing so in plain sight (ebay). As such, until such time as it IS legal, ebay should pull these auctions.
posted on August 13, 2001 11:05:18 AM
I just visited the coupon selling at ebay and I can't believe that they almost all have bids. It's amazing what people will do to make money. What I would like to know is why would anyone buy expired coupons.
posted on August 13, 2001 11:47:17 AM
Actually, there was one time that they did pull all the coupon auctions, but eBay allowed them back on because they found no basis to cancel them. It was about 4 months ago, and all the auctions were cancelled. The next day, all were back on. There are enormous magazines each month, just devoted to couponing, Woman's Day magazine just published an article stating how to trade coupons at websites online, there are big businesses out there selling coupons such as Coupon Connection, ect, who show their coupon booklets on talk shows!
I'm sorry, but if police and the authorities wanted to bust these coupon sellers, they already would have. This is not a new concept. But they can barely keep up with the "real" crimes, much less prosecute Aunt Bessie for trading a poptart coupon.
This is the funniest thread I have ever seen at auctionwatch! Thanks for the chuckle!
posted on August 13, 2001 12:48:15 PM
I actually doubt that there is actually a law on the books regarding selling coupons as "illegal" activity. The very worst it is is a violation of the manufacturers policies and one that obviously, the manufacturers are very hesitant to do anything about. Coupon trading/selling is done right out in the open, not in dark basements or convention rooms. It would be very easy to "bust" the individuals doing this if they wanted to. And I'm sure if the charges would hold up in court, they probably would. This is a new thing on eBay, but trading/selling coupons has been going on for years and years!
I buy a newspaper, those coupons are my property, if I want to put them in the coupon swap at the library, trade them online, or stick the ones I'm not using right on top of the product at the store so others may take advantage of the deal, I will do it. It is silly and ridiculous to think that I would be "arrested" for doing this. I had to laugh out loud about the poster that said if you sell over a certain amount of coupons, you will get the death penalty! How hilarious!
Libra, to answer your question, some people do very well saving money with coupons! I'm not into it that much, or I could do better. I know some people on the mycoupons boards that feed their whole family of 5 or 6 for less than $50 a month, by doing an awful lot of couponing. There was just a big write up in Family Circle magazine about a lady that feeds a family of four for $60 month using coupons (and yes, the article mention "trading"---oh, horrors!).
And in regards to the expired coupons, military commissaries will accept coupons up to 6 months after expiration, and alot of people trade for expired coupons so they can make boxes for the military families to pick through and use to save money (uh, oh, better call the MP for this criminal activity).
Also, there are some stores in certain states that accept expired coupons, mostly in Illinois. I know that Ralph's Grocery store in California used to accept them expired, but I've heard they stopped now.
posted on August 13, 2001 02:38:56 PM
one more time... Man this is getting old.
"Selling coupons" is not illegal.
Using a sold coupon IS ILLEGAL -- it's fraud. You came upon the coupon via means which voided the coupon and as such using a voided coupon IS ILLEGAL.
There is nothing anyone can say here that will make this not true. They can justify breaking those laws, including such excuses that they won't be prosecuted, the law is stupid, etc. But these do not change the fact that this is an illegal activity.
The actual auction itself may not be illegal. However, the seller CANNOT deliver to the buyer what they promised, that is a valid, unvoided, unfraudulently gained coupon. As such, the seller is getting money and not delivering what they are promising.
posted on August 13, 2001 03:43:41 PMI actually doubt that there is actually a law on the books regarding selling coupons as "illegal" activity.
No, but I'm sure there are plenty of laws that could be used regarding the "agreement" from the back of the coupon to prosecute you.
what part of...
Consumer:Don't...Void if ...Any other use constitutes fraud
(from the image on the first page)
Don't you understand?
peiklk, you are putting up the good fight. I agree wholeheartedly with you. Unfortunately, I think, this is beyond saving money for some people here--and may be a reason for living, this coupon cuttin' thing.
They were right never discuss Religion (coupons) or politics (which brand of scissors you use) in polite company.
arttsupplies (webmaster)
[ edited by arttsupplies on Aug 13, 2001 03:46 PM ]
If the coupon does not say it is illegal then it is not. If the coupon says that it is, then it is.
Personally, I think Packer is using all brains on full throttle and has come up with a great way to recycle coupons that would have otherwise gone to waste. The price is cheap enough and the company gets the benefit. Perhaps, with a new found customer.
Hmmm? I think I might try to find some coupons and see what I can do with them. I never do anything illegal so I will read them very carefully with my loupe ahead of time.
posted on August 13, 2001 05:52:04 PM
Some people have to much time on their hands.
The manufacturers who issue the coupons do it for one reason...to persuade the buyer to purchase the product. The hope is that once the user has tried the product they will become a loyal customer. To that end, as long as the coupon is used to purchase the product there is no fraud involved.
The manufacturers don't care HOW you got the coupon (it came in the mail, you clipped it out of a magazine your friend gave to you, you got it through a mail exchange of coupons, you picked it out of a box in the break room at work, etc), all they care about is that you use it for the purpose they intended...to purchase the product.
Fraud means to cheat...when the coupons are used for the purpose they were meant for there is no cheating occurring. The buyer of the merchandise is NOT cheating the manufacturer out of anything, nor was there any intention to defraud (which is a requirement for a finding of guilt in a fraud charge).
Now...if a local organization (let's say the local boy scouts) were to collect coupons from members and others and turn them into a clearing house for the face value of the coupons, WITHOUT purchasing the items, then you would have fraud. Doesn't matter that they were going to use the proceeds to fund their Food Bank project...they were defrauding the manufacturers.
I suggest that those who think trading coupons voids the coupons and hence using the traded coupons is a form of fraud contact some of the big companies who use this form of advertising (Procter & Gamble, General Mills, Kelloggs, Beatrice Foods, etc) and ask them if they mind if people trade their coupons...and ask them if they think those who use traded coupons are defrauding them (the manufacturers).
Bet they say "Heck no...we WANT people to use the coupons...we don't care how the consumer got them as long as they buy our product with the coupons".
) and then auctioned that off?
