posted on August 13, 2001 06:19:11 PM
Thats correct amy! You said it very well.
As I said on the first page.....Company reps would attend our refund Conventions and encourage the BUYING ~ SELLING ~ TRADING ~ of their coupons.
They wanted us to get them distributed to as many as possible.
Granted...no doubt there are some unscrupulous people out there. BUT.....your not going to find them at Trading Conventions.
It was serious folks trying to save a buck on their grocery bill.
As I'm sure that is what the majority of couponers do.
In the 80's I fed a family of 6 on less then $20 a week. There is BIG BIG savings if you can Double & Triple them. It takes a lot of work and planning but believe me it can be done. I'm glad to hear the art of couponing is still alive and well.
If what I have been doing all these years is ILLEGAL, then so be.....I'll join all my other coupon sisters in jail and we can have one hellofa coupon party.
posted on August 13, 2001 08:55:16 PM
Then what the manufacturers WANT and what the manufacturers SAY on the coupons are at complete and total odds with one another.
Really, I don't have a problem with it except that it is illegal.
posted on August 13, 2001 09:29:07 PM
Here's what the FTC has to say:
There’s only one legitimate way to use a coupon: Cut it out of the newspaper or other source and use it toward the purchase of the designated product. A coupon is meant to be used only by the consumer who buys the product for which the coupon is printed. Selling or transferring coupons to a third party violates most manufacturers’ coupon redemption policies—and usually voids the coupon.
posted on August 13, 2001 09:43:24 PM
MPH...bingo!!
Not illegal as long as the coupon is used to buy the product...and it doesn't matter that great Aunt Tillie cut it out of the paper and gave it to her Anna, her niece...and then Anna (who didn't want to offend Aunt Tillie by telling her that Scooby Hot Hot Breakfast Bars tasted like crude and she wouldn't have them in her home for anything), put the coupon in the box in the break room at work where Susie Q picked it up (along with scads of others.
Susie Q sent the coupon out in response to an ad she saw in a Couponing newsletter (she would get back as many as she sent , but they would be different than the ones she sent). Lillian, the lady who put the ad in the newsletter takes the coupon and sells it on ebay. Monica Ebayer buys the coupon from the ebay auction (along with 200 others).
Two days after Monica gets the coupon she goes to her closest Piggly Wiggly and uses it to get $1 off of the Scooby Hot Hot Breakfast Bars, which her kids just adore!!
Nothing illegal happened...as the FTC says A coupon is meant to be used only by the consumer who buys the product for which the coupon is printed. ...and Monika was the consumer who bought the product for which the coupon is printed. Everyone else transferred it (and one got a handling charge for finding the coupons)...but no one else used it.
posted on August 13, 2001 10:33:57 PM
You've posted FAR more than I on this topic, Amy. You've got too much time!
The fact still remains that based on the terms of the coupon, it's illegal to sell or trade it. If the manufacturer didn't want this, then they wouldn't print this. Pure and simple.
They want YOU to have ONE coupon to try their product. They don't want you, a regular buyer anyway, to amass many coupons to use over and over and over when you would pay full price anyway.
posted on August 13, 2001 10:51:33 PM
Actually, the manufacturers put many coupons in the paper for the same items. They may print 8-10 coupons for Dawn dish soap every year. If their intent was for each consumer to use only one coupon, they would only print them once per year or so. Or the manufacturer would word the coupon, "Limit one per person" instead of "Limit one per purchase".
posted on August 14, 2001 06:09:02 AM
Packer......I used to be a refunder also and took several magazines, went to many conventions and did alot of trading thru the mail. Just curious.....did you get in on that refund deal that Salem etc....offered many years ago where you could get the form from a military base and send in pack's for free gifts such as full size pool tables, Sony Handicam camcorders among lots of other goodies.......I think when I refunded that was the deal of the century. We (my family) bought the needed cig. packs through ads in the paper.....we ended up with about 5 pool tables, 17 Sony handicam camcorders etc....sold one of my pool tables and all of my Sony camcorders except for one to recoup the money spent out on the packs and the other pool table sits in my basement today. I miss the days of refunding.....got to be too much of a hassel when the company got so they wanted a copy of your birth certificate and finger prints for a .50 refund though....well maybe I did exagerate a little but not by much! Nice to hear from a former refunder though. I see where the editor of one of the magazines I used to take, has a seller/buyer id on ebay......she still put out a magazine, refunds and sells off her excess stuff.
posted on August 14, 2001 06:29:40 AMThen when I was search ebay, I was shocked to find illegal items being sold
You're not serious are you?
There's 1000's of illegal items being sold everyday on eBay ... many of them worth far more than 1/100 cent
Going after the "coupon thieves" is, IMHO, a total waste of energy and resources. They should spend this time going after the bootleggers and pirates, but then they would lose the listing and selling fees.
Hmmmm ....
tomwiii ... not so fast pardner ... the mattress police have been tipped off. Don't answer the door for a few weeks eh
posted on August 14, 2001 06:32:34 AM
Hi NanasTurtles,
No, I don't remember that one.
Howver I do remember getting my very first computer through POST cereal labels.
It was an ATARI 1200XL and every piece of equipment that went with it.
Then, Atari was offering a $100.00 rebate.
Those were the days. I lost interest about 11 years ago when I moved out of state. Once I got settled I tried to take it up again, but it just didn't feel right anymore, my space was more restricted, everything was packed in boxes and it became a hassel trying to find what I needed.
My garage attic still holds all my goodies. I just happened to run across all these NED coupons(I'm guessing about 20,000 - I was a serious refunder). I had no idea they were such a hot seller on eBay.
They talk about dumpster diving on here for packing supplies, but I developed a real nack for diving for trash, oil cans, beer boxes, it was a sight to see
I subscribed to several trade papers, but the one I got started on was "DOLLARS DAILY".
It was a hoot! Now I'm into bigger and better things...antiques!
posted on August 14, 2001 07:05:42 AM
From the Coupon Information Corporation website:
Can I sell my extra coupons?
No, there is no legitimate way to sell your unwanted coupons.
The sale or transfer of coupons is a violation of virtually all manufacturers’ coupon redemption policies. These policies are generally printed on the coupons or is available from the manufacturer upon request. The sale or transfer voids the coupon.
Persons purchasing coupons have often been associated with organized criminal activities. They often purchase the coupons as one aspect of a scheme to defraud the coupon issuers/manufacturers, usually by seeking to redeem coupons without purchasing any products. Individuals selling coupons to such crime rings have been charged with and convicted of criminal violations.
Can I buy coupons?
No, there are good reasons not to purchase coupons. In addition to being in violation of the manufacturers’ policies, it simply does not make sense to pay for something that is given away for free.
Coupons being sold on the Internet or by other means may be stolen property or counterfeit. Individuals attempting to use these coupons may be subject to prosecution.
The Coupon Information Corporation (CIC), a not-for-profit association of consumer product manufacturers that issue coupons, was formed in 1985 to encourage integrity in the coupon redemption process and to advocate and support law enforcement investigations of suspected coupon misredemption.
According to estimates of industry analysts, manufacturers that issue coupons suffer losses in excess of $500 million annually due to coupon fraud.
The CIC operates the Coupon Information Center in Alexandria, Virginia.
The Center serves as a central point from which law enforcement officials can obtain information from manufacturers. Under guidelines established by the manufacturers, the Center's activities with regard to its law enforcement liaison functions are limited to the computerized processing of data and communications with public officials.
Since the Center began operations in late 1986, it has encouraged and/or supported coupon misredemption inquiries in scores of States and localities. More than 300 individuals and organizations have been successfully prosecuted for coupon fraud in actions in which the CIC has provided supporting information. These individuals were responsible for more than $250 million in fraudulent coupon submissions.
As of this date, every individual prosecuted for coupon fraud as a result of CIC efforts has pleaded guilty or been convicted; not one has been acquitted.
posted on August 14, 2001 07:16:07 AMAs of this date, every individual prosecuted for coupon fraud as a result of CIC efforts has pleaded guilty or been convicted; not one has been acquitted
No wonder your jails are filling up ... so much criminal activity going on down there. Hope none of these folks got busted in Texas .. I hear they execute people there
posted on August 14, 2001 07:17:21 AM
packer......Glad to hear that someone else still has their qualifiers hanging around after all these years. I had a building built to "house" my "goodies".....they were organized alphabetically.....when I finally got out, I remember pitching everything except all my Cambell labels which I donated to the school....my daughers class won the contest that year for most labels donated so they were tickled....but.....I still have the "cream of the crop" lurking downstairs in my file cabinets which is still full of all my medicine and health and beauty aid qualifiers! Just couldn't bare to part with them yet. I need to! I subscribed to "Moneytalk" magazine and "Refund Express"......it is the editor of this last magazine that is on ebay also. I did take her magazine for a while a few years ago just to see what was in it.....it was a free introductory offer and it was neat looking back into it again..but like you, I'm also onto bigger and better things, called ebay! I also can relate to the dumpter diving for the Havoline, Valoline and Castrol carton UPC's along with having a garage save me all their Motorcraft/AC-Delco and Monroe Shock part boxes......those were the days for a while! Thanks for the walk down "refunders lane"......I enjoyed to talking to someone who was also into it! ~smile~
posted on August 14, 2001 07:41:27 AM
Thats it "MONEY TALK", that one was my FAVORITE trade mag. Does she still put that out?
I ran a lot of ads in Money Talk.
I had everyone and there dog saving trash for me. I had 3 huge dressers that I alphabatized them in and my own room.
I got to stay home for 10 years to raise my kids thanks to refunding. The kids thought it was great...all the free goodies we got and at 3 and 4 to keep them busy I'd let them cut my unwant coupons, they loved it, they were helping mommy.
mrpotatohead,
Your quit right about people collecting coupons for illegal use.
But in defense of my refunding and couponing sisters, the majority of the people collected and traded to redeem them for the product designated.
We could take a coupon(good on any size) and double or triple it and get the product free.
And thats just what the most of US did.
As I stated earlier, stores now have to be acountable to show a product sale for each coupon redeemed.
posted on August 14, 2001 07:58:55 AM
JUDICIARY SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY AND TERRORISM
TESTIMONY WILL ESTABLISH
* Novel supermarket coupon redemption fraud that nets millions annually for foreign terrorist organizations.
Coupons began in the United States in 1909, when C.W. Post first thought of the strategy to get more customers to purchase his products. . The rest is history in the marketing of American business products. I'm talking about those 25 Cent off coupons for your favorite cereal, candy bar, soda, soap, detergent and even disposable diapers. Due to the competitive nature of business, more than 700 public and private corporations offer coupon discounts for their products. In many ways, consumer coupons represent the Third currency in the United States. After U.S. currency and illicit drug money, Consumer Coupons generates more than 8 Billion dollars annually in transactions.
Postal Inspectors, operating in an undercover capacity, met with Adnand Bahour, a Palestinian operating several grocery stores with his family in the Hollywood, North Miami, Florida area. Bahour was more than a grocery store owner - he was a kingpin in the national terror network creating money laundering and financing for the PLO. By his own admission, Bahour was caught on video tape, detailing to undercover operatives, that he is the nephew of George Habash, the leader of the Palestinian Liberation Front. During this investigation and the raid on the meeting hall of this network, more than 72 individuals from throughout the United States gathered in Hollywood, Florida, to further their fraudulent coupon distribution network. This national network was no different than the infrastructure which was exposed when New York State Troopers tripped on the Appalachian meeting of Organized Crime in 1959.
During the Hollywood raid, documents of PLO activities were seized and records of money laundering were found. As a result, the Bahour network was disrupted, but unfortunately not broken. Some of the suspects in the Bahour case were prosecuted locally, other disappointingly released. After all, as I've heard all too often from Prosecutor's throughout America's major cities, "this is not guns, it's not drugs- it's coupons and those rich companies can afford to lose a little."
posted on August 14, 2001 09:05:04 AM
packer....I don't think that Money Talk is published anymore......if I remember correctly, I think she lived somewhere in Pennsylvania. My kids also benefited from refunding. One year when my kids were in early grade school, we made up several Christmas baskets to give to needy family annonimously (spelling error...) and the families who recieved it were thrilled on Xmas morning and it taugh my children a valuable lesson to help those out that are less fortunate. It was a great full time hobby....really loved it when our stores around here would double and triple coupons but that went by the wayside also. I also remember close to the end of when I quit refunding that the refund conventions were being held by "invitation" only because of some practices that put alot of refunders in a bad light.
posted on August 14, 2001 09:13:38 AM
This doesn't make any sense to me. If I have a coupon for something I can't use (baby supplies immediately comes to mind) The company would rather me throw it away than to give it to someone else, who might try it, like it, and belong a devoted customer....ridiculous!!!!!!!! Not a good way to win customers!
Technically, the coupon does say that, but what does it REALLY mean? I can't imagine they would want me to throw it away rather than potentially turn someone onto their product?
posted on August 14, 2001 09:28:35 AM
What the coupon issuers are attempting to do with non-transferability is to try and stop fraud, not try to stop you from giving the coupon to someone else to legitimately use.
Selling and buying coupons "generally" points to illegal redemption schemes, as I stated in an earlier post.
posted on August 14, 2001 09:28:50 AM
cin,
Between you and me, I think the language is directed to those that do gather them for FRAUD purposes. NOT to the consumer who intends to use them to purchase their product, no matter how they come by them.
Can't you just see a case going before the judge "Housewife trades coupons for better buying power".
Its laughable!
I'm off to list my coupons! I see $$$$$$$$ in my future
posted on August 14, 2001 09:34:08 AM
NanasTurtles,
Even with supporting my family of 6 with coupons & refunds, I also managed to give away TONS of stuff to the needy.
It is very rewarding and the children did learn alot about the art of giving.
It was a great time, huh Nana, Its really nice going down memory lane with a fellow couponer & refunder.
posted on August 15, 2001 11:21:07 AM
I still don't understand why a coupon even has that "1/100th of one cent" type of indication on it. Why would a coupon have any value at all aside from redeeming it on the specified product?
posted on August 15, 2001 11:36:54 AMLibra63 (re: whether coupons are really worth it):
Depends (on a lot of things, but I'll restrain myself). Are you able to use coupons in a careful manner, and not buy a whole lot of things you don't really need until later -- if at all? To "save, save, save," one needs to "spend, spend, spend" first, so the trick is not spending more in total with coupons than without, and that could be hard to evaluate accurately. It's very tempting, at least when *I* used coupons, to end up buying more food than I needed. It takes discipline and even planning, which in turn takes time.
Consider the time spent: extra time sorting out ads from the paper (whether or not you use the coupons); time spent looking at the coupons; clipping and organizing them (inc. culling out expired ones if not used); at the store staring at coupons or lists or the ??oz. listings on the box, to make sure it all matches up; and at the checkout counter being scanned (even more if others in front of you do). Try adding it up sometime, for a week, then multiply by 2500 (number of weeks in an average adult lifetime) and figure out how many hours/days/months you're spending. Even as little as 10 minutes/week = 417 hours = 52 typical 8-hour work days. Spend a full hour a week, and that's the equivalent of more than a year's worth of 8-hour workdays.
Is all that time worth it? Again, maybe, or maybe not. Depends on your needs, how much other time stress you may be suffering, and again, it depends on your discipline using them.
Finally, a couple general factors. Use them or not, it takes money to design, print, and distribute them. Such marketing surely adds to the cost of the product(s) in the long run. The other is that besides making Sunday papers really thick (for how much ads go into them, that paper should be free ), some of it is sent directly as junk (bulk) mail, whether you want it or not (I don't).
I compliment those able to feed families on very low amounts of money because of coupons. As indicated by others who mentioned that, it takes time and discipline, and is indeed something of an art, and I can appreciate that. Personally, though, I'm not that disciplined, and would rather use my time on other things.
JMO.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
posted on August 15, 2001 11:38:12 AM
Q: Why do coupons indicate in the small print that they have a cash value?
A: Some state laws require that coupons have a cash value at which they can be redeemed. Most manufacturers set the value of a coupon at 1/20 of a cent. At this rate the cost of postage to send a pound of coupons to the manufacturer would be more than their cash value.
