posted on August 17, 2001 02:51:17 PM newPaypal isn't running to do chargebacks, the law gives cc purchases the right of recision for ANY reason within certain time periods.
PayPal needs to take steps to make sure the buyer who files for a chargeback is on the up and up.
If I use a cc to purchase software at Best Buy, take said software home and install it then try to return it, I'll be shown the door in very short order. I can exchange it for the same title, but I can't just take it back.
If I buy evening wear at Macy's, pay for it with my VISA card, wear it to the opera, then try to return it, I'll be shown the door. Department stores don't take such returns unless the tags are intact, because it's a very common scam.
If I buy a video game at Target, charge it on my cc, play it once and decide I'm dissatisfied with the quality of the animation, Target won't take it back. Again, I can exchange it for the same title, but I'm stuck with a game I don't like.
There's a reason Target.com, Macy's.com and BestBuy.com don't take PayPal -- and won't take it any time soon.
BTW, as a buyer, I've never used PayPal to pay for an auction purchase -- and don't plan to start now. I only purchase low-risk items at auction and I'm happy to pay with a money order. I have a PO a mile from my house (and I pass by it twice a day) and I have another PO in the building in which I work. And $1.09 for a money order and a stamp is chump change. I pay more for a Diet Coke each morning. So I don't care if a seller takes PayPal or not. I buy based on the goods I want, not the payment method.
I have used PayPal to pay for a service I use (because I procrastinated and it was too late to send a check). But I emptied my account first and used a credit card to pay.
(Interesting enough, this is a big service that many sellers use and it remains an UNVERIFIED member of PayPal.)
posted on August 17, 2001 03:08:38 PM new
If the purse seller had been the same quality of business as is Macys, the case would have never come up for discussion.
Macys takes merchandise back. It's that simple, and it's the big reason why they can charge more than a guy at the flea market.
posted on August 17, 2001 08:27:42 PM new
The reason I dont take paypal is my prices are much lower than those who do. I see sellers charging outrageous handling fees to make up the paypal fees. I do MUCH more business than my competition. Who is going to pay $5.50 shipping for a 2lb package, when I charge $3.95? I see paypal sellers charging $5.00 shipping for the same movie I charge $3.50 for, and then they wonder why they dont sell. My opinion is I hope more sellers take paypal and hike their shipping. I love all the new customers.
posted on August 17, 2001 08:59:40 PM new
I like Pay Pal just fine, but I have read enough horror stories on here to realize I might not like them so much next week.
I have had no dreaded charge backs, I have an extremely liberal return policy. All my items are already used so I don't have to worry about that problem.
I have reduced my estimation of the impact accepting pay pal has on sales. I know there are some who will not bid if the seller doesn't take Pay Pal but I think they have to be relatively small in number and would probably be more demanding in other areas as well and who needs that?
I don't think the decision on whether to take pay pal has anything to do with ethics or morals or seller intentions. I think it is, pure and simple, a business decision and should be respected as such.
Edited to add: for those with you that have memories like steel traps, this is a departure from previous posts on this topic from me a month or so ago. Frankly, mrpotatohead's posts on this subject have altered my thinking.
Gerald
"Oh but it's so hard to live by the rules/I never could and still never do."
[ edited by NothingYouNeed on Aug 17, 2001 09:01 PM ]
posted on August 17, 2001 09:06:29 PM new
>Maybe this is wrong but I happen to think a seller should think like a buyer when offering their product. I have no proof, just call it a hunch<
Yup, that's no hunch though.
People sell & shop on the internet because it's easy & convenient. Paying via PP is also easy & convenient. If if costs a few cents more who cares?
Not I.
You pay a few cents more per gallon for gas in the city, but it's easy & convenient.
You pay more for a loaf of bread at 7-11 but it too is fast & simple.
We take PP because people want to pay that way.
If they all started asking about BP we'd go that route.
For all the people that don't like or accept PP I understand.
If we had a problem we wouldn't use them either.
(but until then, send all dem PayPal bidders our way!)
posted on August 17, 2001 10:23:16 PM newIf the merchandise is paid for from a PayPal account, the resolution of such a case is between the seller and the buyer.
Here's a true story of what happened to a friend.
Seller sold a thinkpad on eBay for $800.00
Buyer pays by Paypal same day from funds in his account, not from a ccard.
Buyer comes to pick up the thinkpad himself to save on shipping and inspect the thinkpad (lives in the same area, so he claimed).
Seller accepts since the payment was from funds in the paypal account, not from a ccard. He taught it was safe.
Buyer leaves with the thinkpad since he was satisfied with it.
Shortly after, $800.00 from seller's account are withdrawn by Paypal. The reason, the buyers account was funded with a fraudulent check. Even though Paypal made the funds available to the buyer before they verified the check was good, they will not take the responsibility.
Now:
Buyer has the $800.00 thinkpad
Paypal has taken back the $800.00 it paid from buyers paypal funds account to the seller.
Seller has got nothing, lost his $800.00 item and no money.
Now, why don't I take Paypal (and Billpoint)? Let me count the reasons.....
posted on August 17, 2001 10:34:21 PM new
I'm a buyer AND a seller, and I offer PayPal as a seller and use it as a buyer. Frankly, it's easier and quicker than writing a check and certainly more convenient than getting a money order.
I don't sell extremely expensive items, and have never had a chargeback in over 400 auctions. I keep my PayPal account around $100 or less, transfering the excess to my business checking account and then using it to pay bills. I'm quite willing to risk $100 with PayPal for a limited period of time, especially since FOR ME, it has proven to be an excellent business decision with no downside.
And no, I don't include a handling charge or excessive shipping to cover my PayPal fees.
My view is that you should do anything you can do that enhances the buyer's interest in your item and makes it easier to purchase and receive. If your experience with PayPal (or any other online payment service) has been poor, don't offer it! If you've found that your sell-through rate and selling prices are just as high or higher without an online service, then don't offer it! But overall, it seems that many buyers prefer this method of buying, and I certainly prefer it to dealing with checks and money orders (as both a seller and a buyer).
This argument seems to have turned into a clone of the endless Mac-versus-PC discussions, and it also tends to get kinda personal and ugly: "Anybody who would ... is a fool," and so forth. Why not just do what you are comfortable with, and let it go at that?
posted on August 18, 2001 04:29:21 AM new
well guys, I have not posted this before, because I have not felt the need since people have been warned about paypal I thought most people would understand that it COULD happen to them.
then I notice Roofguy speaking the gospel according to paypal, so I thought I better tell what happened to me.
about six or seven months ago I sold a set of CD's to a buyer for 24.00
I charged him 4.00 for priority mail
Total 28.00
he paid with paypal and I shipped the product.
about a week later he emailed me wanting me to send him the setbox. well the add said nothing about a setbox, and I did not have a setbox, so I told him that.
He emailed back saying he wanted a refund then, I said ok send back the CD's and I would refund less the postage..
he said NO, I had to send him the refund first, then he would send the CD's back.
Of Course, I said no
couple weeks later I get email form paypal, stating the buyer wanted a chargeback because my auction item was not as stated. I emailed paypal explaining the details and thought that was the end of it.
about a month later WHAMO 28 dollar chargeback on my account.
My emails to paypal were ignored.
I do not use paypal anymore and I was doing a LOT of transactions with them..
Now I use c2it and ( knock on wood ) No problems.
So you see folks, it can happen to you, now I know 28 bucks is not much. But if it could have been 2800.
Oh, and by the way, I still have not received my CD's back.
posted on August 18, 2001 05:04:01 AM new
Why I don't use Paypal
(1) I already have a safe and secure method of accepting credit cards which provides much more protection for me AND the buyer - my merchant account.
(2) We do our own fraud screening and verification - if **I** decide to accept an iffy charge, I have no one to blame but myself if it goes bad.
(3)As a business, we are here for the long run; we look at all business decisions as long term. While we try to meet our customers needs as fully as possible, we don't find "customer convenience" a compelling reason to make decisons which might have the long term effect of putting the business at risk. Our many Japanese customers would no doubt find it more convenient to pay in Yen, but we don't accept that form of payment either.
(4) I also don't use Paypal as a buyer.For smaller purchases, I'll pay by money order or check (whatever the seller prefers). For larger ones, I'll use a credit card with a merchant who has her/his own merchant account.
posted on August 18, 2001 10:58:05 AM newthen I notice Roofguy speaking the gospel according to paypal, so I thought I better tell what happened to me.
There are a few missing pieces in the story.
1. Was this a quality of merchandise chargeback? If so, buyer must have returned the merchandise, perhaps to you, perhaps to PayPal. If not, what kind of chargeback was it?
2. Did you follow all the rules for chargeback protection, and supply verification of that when asked? This is particulary important if buyer fraudulently reported that the merchandise was not received, or that the card was used by someone else. Such chargebacks constitute the vast majority of real world chargebacks, and sellers are protected if they follow the rules.
