posted on August 28, 2001 01:37:02 AM
Did lowprofile check out? Well, here's my 2 cents worth...
Not knowing what the item is that's being shipped, we can only guess what the correct postage would be. Perhaps the seller is irritated that lowprofile didn't exchange the customary emails with address info before paying, and decided to just throw out a figure (8.00) to "show him/her". Who knows. Having said that, the seller obviously did not spell out postage clearly in the auction, and should take this as a lesson learned and eat the extra postage.
Lowprofile, what is the item being sent? How heavy could it be, taking into account safe packaging? Is 13.20 for shipping high, and did you check the USPS site? If the seller has obviously inflated shipping costs, I would seriously consider a negative. If the seller is in the ballpark of the correct shipping cost, then this was an honest mistake that I don't think you should gouge him/her for.
Can't we all just get along?
"Who's tending the bar? Sniping works up a thirst"
That might be relevant if this purchase were made on eBay Canada or if this seller stated "Shipping to Canada Only" in the listing, but I assume some intelligence (and craftiness) on lowpro's part, he/she knew that quote was for U.S. shipping as 99.999% of the shipping quotes are on the main ebay site.
You say lowpro didn't admit to anything, well he/she also didn't say they had mistakenly sent the wrong amount either. The tone of the question was pretty clear to me. Lowpro wants someone to validate their loophole, luckily they found the support they were looking for.
[ edited by bemused on Aug 28, 2001 01:58 AM ]
posted on August 28, 2001 02:49:06 AMThey are roundly chastised when someone thinks they are getting Priority and it arrives 1st class for a lot less. My question is are they anymore dishonest than the buyer that originated this thread? In either case it was premeditated
this just happened to me. listing said $3.50 shipping. i assumed priority, since it's a common priority price and most people in my category ship priority. the item arrived 3 days after i paid, 1st class. i wasn't mad at all. instead, impressed with the speed of 1st class and with the smart seller. emailed and told her so
as far as this situation, i would have assumed the $5.20 was for us priority and emailed the seller for the cost of shipping to my country. i've shipped to canada a few times, and have been astonished at how high the postage is, so $13.50 doesn't sound out of line to me.
yes, to be perfectly clear and leave no room for misunderstandings, the seller should have said the $5.20 was for u.s. only. s/he made a mistake. i don't see any reason to leave a neg over it, though.
posted on August 28, 2001 04:12:04 AM
Yikes! And then folks wonder why so many sellers REFUSE to have anything to do with international bidders! Ya gots the baloney with the paperwork + the wait in the PO line + the silly games over "GIFTS" + these kind of lawyer games! The bidder OF COURSE KNEW THAT THE shipping charge was for the US only -- now plays the "Gee, whiz??" game! I'm so sick & tired of the whole mess!
posted on August 28, 2001 07:03:10 AMkittykittykitty ~ Anything under I think it's 13 ounces goes First Class. Priority is only for items over that weight.
but I assume some intelligence (and craftiness) on lowpro's part
Some people always assume before they have the actual facts. I like to hear the facts before I assume anything. Though I will admit I don't always do this.
If I was the buyer I would have had direct contact with the seller before paying so I could verify the shipping rate. If it was more than quoted in the auction I would pay up.
I am not supporting lowprofile's actions. I would like to hear what actually happened and I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt before jumping to conclusions. Okay?
posted on August 28, 2001 08:34:13 AM
I am also a seller with over 3500 all positive feedback.
I was not trying to cheat anyone. I read the listing and to me it looked like it was 5.20 to ship the item...had I known it would be 14.00 I would never of bid...we are talking a 5.00 Item here that may weighs 1lb.
I often charge one shipping fee for my items and that is to anywhere in the world.
To me the seller is in the wrong...they said Ships Internationally see desciption and the desciption says 5.20.
I did not post here looking to be bashed..I was looking for opinions. This has nothing to do with been a Canadian!
I did not premeditate anything and I am far from been dishonest! I did not get over 3500 positive feedback from been dishonest.
As to the posters here who just slammed me..I cetainly hope I never have the experience of bidding on one of your items.
Why are you so quick to jump all over me and make the quick desision I am dishonest and planned this...I dont get it.??
posted on August 28, 2001 08:45:18 AMAnd dont you have to wait in line to ship your items anyways??
I can't answer for tomwiii, but I don't wait in line to ship my items. I drop them in the mailbox outside the post office on my way to work, and I imagine others do the same.
posted on August 28, 2001 09:00:40 AM
mrpotatoheadd:
Wish I could do that...some of the packages I have wont fit into the mailboxes.
Plus I dont mind going to the post office...I think its cuts down on the shipping time..and since I send mostly to the USA if I can cut a day off the time it is good for my buyers.
posted on August 28, 2001 09:10:50 AMWish I could do that...
Every time I sell something that won't go in the mailbox, I'm reminded of why I don't do it more often.
Another thought to consider...
Getting to the post office (and having to wait in line once there) can be a challenge for anybody who works at an 8 to 5 job. If they can't do it during lunch, they have to take off work early, or find a post office that's open on Saturday (not all are).
Have you emailed the seller yet to let him know $8.00 is completely unreasonable?
As far as I am concerned he is not following his TOS, I would politely Email him and if he still is firm on the extra 8.00, I would just email safe harbor to let them know this seller does not follow TOS in his listing.
I have mailed to Canada many of times and this person is a complete rip off a pound package would be know where near what he is asking for shipping.
posted on August 28, 2001 09:55:09 AM
"Why are you so quick to jump all over me and make the quick desision I am dishonest and planned this...I dont get it.?? "
lowprofile
Well, I didn't jump all over you, but I understand why some sellers did. Your second post where you "justified" negative feedback and justified capitalizing on a sellers mistake suggested that you "knew" the seller screwed up and were trying to "screw" them. Perhaps you should re-read that post from a SELLER perspective instead of a BUYER perspective.
Your quick reaction to leave negative feedback didn't help matters either as most of us have dealt with unreasonable buyers who threaten FB immediately and refuse to negotiate IN GOOD FAITH. Personally, I think you failed here as well if your second post is accurate.
This second post also makes me question the numbers you reported for your feedback profile. Mine is half of that, and I wouldn't even think about negative feedback in this situation. Why? Because I've been on the receiving end of irrational feedback and like to believe that I wouldn't do that to another seller.
You asked, and I hope you take this in the vein it was offered and don't see it as an attack.
posted on August 28, 2001 10:07:32 AMWhy are you so quick to jump all over me and make the quick desision I am dishonest and planned this...
This being a written medium, all we have to go on is your words and your tone, and we can only comment based on the information you provide. And based on what you wrote at the start of this thread, I think it was very valid to assume that you were trying to take advantage of loopholes in the sellers TOS. I don't think anyone other than maybe the newest newbie, would ASSUME the seller charges the same amount to ship a widget regardless of worldwide destination.
Later on in the thread it came out that it was a small item and perhaps the guy was trying to overcharge. IF you had stated it all at the beginning, this thread might have taken a markedly different direction.
In any case, you ask for opinions here. Obvioulsy all of us have very strong and diverse opinions and regardless of your topic, you are likely to have some dissenters as well as some supporters. Bottom line, if you can't take the heat, ....
posted on August 28, 2001 10:25:36 AMKind of makes me wonder if this was a mistake on the sellers part or just a ploy to snag the unwary.
Interesting, after reading the initial post on this thread I was wondering the same thing.
Seller has 1500+ feedback.
Seller voluntarily chooses to ship Internationally.
Seller states a fixed shipping rate.
Seller FAILS to mention that shipping outside of the US will cost more, in this case MUCH more than the fixed rate.
An HONEST mistake? From the facts posted thus far, I rather doubt it.
It appears to me that this seller knows exactly how the game is played, and is playing it to the max.
His/her auctions appear to be VERY inviting to the International community as they state a fixed shipping cost, which is obviously MUCH lower then the next International sellers identical item.
I purchase items from all points on the globe, and in 4 years of eBaying I have NEVER seen a seller with 1000+ feedback state they will ship Internationally, then check off the box for "See Description" for the shipping cost, then check off the box that states "Seller Charges Fixed Shipping Cost", AND then NOT mention that shipping outside of their home country will be more, if in fact they expect to charge more.
A simple mistake? I think not.
The following comment was posted in the initial post by lowprofile.
To me it looks like they will ship it anywhere for 5.20. Now they wont sell it to me and they are sending back my paypal money.
IF the seller had made an honest mistake, the honest thing to do would have been to:
A. Apologize & eat the extra cost.
or
B. Apologize & explain that they screwed up & the shipping cost would be more than the fixed rate in their description. AND then ask for the extra amount to be PayPaled to them.
It sounds to me like the moment the high bidder questioned the additional $8 shipping fee, the seller got their back against the wall & returned the PayPal payment.
I think it's fair to assume that this is NOT the first International buyer that has made a stink after the auction has ended, so either this seller is playing head games with International bidders, or is a total maroon.
lowprofile
Two questions.
1. Are ALL of this sellers items open to International bidders? If not, what kind of percentage are?
2.Is the "Buyer Pays Fixed Shipping Rate" in ALL of the descriptions of this sellers auctions, or is there some remote chance this was indeed a SNAFU on their part?
posted on August 28, 2001 10:41:13 AMThis seller has over 1500 positive feedback..they are not new to Ebay and should not have said it was 5.20 for international.
May not be new to ebay BUT could be new to selling international.
we are talking a 5.00 Item here that may weighs 1lb.
I bid on a small wooded plaque that maybe weighs 2 lbs at the most.
Seller has listed in auction a fixed shipping price of $5.20...an amount that is the exact priority rate for an item that weighs from 2 pounds to 2 pounds 15 ounces. Buyer himself estimates that the ITEM weighs maybe 2 pounds...so it seems safe to say that the seller WAS basing the shipping cost on the actual weight of the package.
Letter post rates have a size and weight limitation. This package falls into the weight limitation (4 pounds and under) but may not fall within the size limitation. If the package is over 24" long or over 36" TOTAL dimensions, it can't be sent letter post and must go parcel post.
Remember, for safe shipping, there should be at least 2" on all sides of the bubble wrapped item between it and the box...so a properly wrapped and packaged plaque could possibly end up going over the size limitations for letter post.
Shipping a 2 pound package to Canada by parcel post air WILL cost $13.25...a package that weighs 2lbs 15oz will cost $14.25.
If the seller's TOS are that the package MUST be insured, letter post is ruled out (can't insure letter post) and the package must go parcel post.
The seller has collected $10.20 from this buyer yet will be shelling out $13.25 for postage (not including the cost of the box, bubble wrap, and tape). Plus the cost of the item itself, listing fee and FVF and the paypal fee. The seller is at least $3.95 in the hole.
MAYBE Lowprofile's position is technically the correct "letter of the law" position (but maybe "unjust enrichment" is the correct point of law), BUT ethically it stinks.
Sometimes we should ignore what the "correct" answer is and just make sure we are being FAIR to our fellow man.
I think Lowprofile, in his heart, knows how UNFAIR he is being to this seller. If his conscience wasn't having pangs of doubt he probably wouldn't have asked us to valididate his actions
posted on August 28, 2001 10:44:54 AM
Yes all of the auctions are open to International bidders.
The seller listed 40 more auctions 5 days after I communicated with them...they are all listed the same way.Buyer pays fixed shipping charges. Seller ships internationally (worldwide). See item description for shipping charges.
In the desciption says the charge...nothing about extra outside USA.
They told me that they were going to list from now on saying it would be extra outside USA...they have not.
Not only that they never sent my Paypal payment back as they said they would and they will not reply to my email.
I was very polite with them, I told them I would not pay an extra 8.00...they said they would not sell it to me then and that they would paypal me back.
As for the negative feedback..I will not leave a negative...but I will leave a neutral...if I dont get a refund I will leave a negative.
This seller knows what they are doing..when they list all the auctions like this even after they agree it was a mistake...they know!
I know my the tone of my email was not good at the start..I was mad that this seller was trying to pull a fast one on a 5 dollar item.
This was suppose to be a present for my little girl...we shopped on Ebay and she picked it out.
posted on August 28, 2001 10:49:04 AM
Alright here is my $02 cents. Lets go back to the beginning...Lowprofile said in the beginning that the seller was going to send
back their paypal money.
It sounds like they replied quickly and
by stating that they would send the money back, they were not trying to screw you.
Perhaps its irritating, but you are out no money (I would eat the paypal fees and send the FULL amount). I've had buyer's back out of a transaction for some pretty dumb reasons, and I don't usually neg them.
I only neg for two reasons:
1) If I buy something and the seller takes
the $$$ and runs
2) A buyer plays games for a LONG period of time...."I sent payment 6 times. It got lost." or "I was in the hospital and passed
away. Now I am an angel and can't pay you, I can only bid on MORE auctions."
I don't usually advertise that I ship internationally, but I have several times and
buyers always e-mail for a quote. Sometimes, I don't know off the top of my head and it takes me a day or two to find out.
In this case, the seller did advertise that he would ship internationally, but quoted a shipping price for U.S. only. Until this thread cmae along, I could have been that
seller and made a similar mistake....but
I like the idea of putting a
"International bidders welcome, but please e-mail for a shipping quote." in my TOS.
I always put a line in my EOA that states
simply..."I am assuming that you live in the
U.S. Shipping could be higher if you do not."
Finally, do I think the seller should eat the
$8 for shipping....that depends.
1) Does he value your business and want you
to return?
2) He doesn't value your business---especially when he must eat a loss--and would rather refund your money and
send you on your way.
He has chosen #2. Call it Seller's Remourse or Seller's Mistake and try and move on.
Thanks for starting an interesting post.
posted on August 28, 2001 10:51:45 AM
I ship internationally, and am happy to do so. I state in my auctions something like this "S&H is $4.50 for US purchases". I make no comment about international shipping charges, because it varies for each country. Would this be considered confusing for an international buyer?
I do have international buyers who will pay before I have even been able to contact them, but they have always been willing to pay the extra shipping charge that is associated with the package.
posted on August 28, 2001 10:54:07 AM
Thanks for the additional info lowprofile, sounds to me like you pegged them right on the money.
If it was me, I'd leave negative feedback either way. Sellers like this need a serious wake up call, and I'd be more than happy to be the first to give them one.
posted on August 28, 2001 11:06:30 AM
The seller probably did not say "US Dollars" specifically also. Would it be ok to pay in Hong Kong Dollars (US $.67)? Stop trying to pull a fast one! How would you like to be treated if the case was reversed?
posted on August 28, 2001 11:17:41 AM
Directly above each & every auction listed on the eBay USA site, it states:
Seller assumes all responsibility for listing this item. You should contact the seller to resolve any questions before bidding.Auction currency is U.S. dollars ( $ ) unless otherwise noted.
posted on August 28, 2001 11:39:34 AMStop trying to pull a fast one!
Exactly WHAT evidence do YOU have that lowprofile is "trying to pull a fast one"? Come on, state just ONE piece of evidence?
The seller stated $5.20 in his auction for shipping. He didn't state $5.20 US or anything about additional charges for international.
And if you actually READ all the posts in this thread, you'll see a number of sellers have come forward to state they charge ONE, count them..ONE charge for both national AND international shipping, so there's no reason to assume anything other than the shipping charge is for ALL buyers unless otherwise stated.
Sniping works up a thirst"