posted on August 28, 2001 11:58:36 AM
Well, it's pretty obvious that this is mainly a sellers forum.
It seems amazing to me that people really feel that it's the buyer's responsibility for an error in the listing. Would y'all feel that way if the seller set too low a reserve price and discovered the error after the auction closed?
This was an error in the listing and the seller should be responsible for that. If it were me (as the seller), I'd probably offer some compromise, where neither party bears the full weight of the error.
As a buyer, I'd generally be willing to go along with it, as long as it's reasonable.
So in this case, if the difference is $8, I'd say split the additional cost and everyone is happy. The winner gets their stuff and the seller learns to be clearer next time around.
posted on August 28, 2001 12:14:25 PMSeller has listed in auction a fixed shipping price of $5.20...an amount that is the exact priority rate for an item that weighs from 2 pounds to 2 pounds 15 ounces.
That's true, amy. It does "look" like the priority rate for 2lbs. But is it? Nothing says "priority" in the seller's terms.
For all we know, he/she could be charging $5.20 for shipping & throwing it in FC mail & pocketing the rest.
My point being, in thread, after thread, after thread, we beg, plead, scream at buyers AND sellers NOT TO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS.
In this case, lowprofile checked to see if they sell internationally, they do.
He checked to see if they had shipping listed, they do.
There was nothing to assume. Seller stated will ship internationally, seller stated shipping charge and didn't state it U.S. only.
Now people are saying lowprofile should have KNOWN it was for U.S. Shipping only.
HUH?
Buyers are not only supposed not to ASSUME but they are now supposed to second guess what's in a seller's mind?
Sorry, doesn't wash.
I would feel a bit better for the seller if they had changed their TOS after lowprofile pointed out the problem. But they didn't. What does that say to you about this seller?
posted on August 28, 2001 01:02:02 PM
Eventer...my pointing out the fact that the shipping quoted in the auction was for priority AND pointing out that the BUYER himself says the item weighs about 2 pounds was to show that the shipping amount was more than likely for priority package weighing around 2 pounds.
A two pound package sent first class will only cost PENNIES less than the same package sent priority. So, in this case, there was no way this seller could have been delibertly decieving his potential customers by APPEARING to be shipping priority.
For all those who blasted other posters for "assumming" what Lowprofile's actual intentions were (including lowprofile himself), why are you then "assuming this seller is cheating the buyer or that the seller is a scamming lowlife? You have absolutely NO PROOF of such!
Lowprofile...the fact that this was a gift for your daughter and she picked it out has no bearing on this situation what so ever. In fact, since it WAS a gift for her that she picked out herself is very good reason to have been gracious enough to realize people make mistakes and not be holding this seller to the technicallity you are currently claiming.
Which is more important...being right and "teaching" this scum of a seller a lesson OR making sure your little girl gets the gift she is so anxiously awaiting?
I know I would choose not disapointing my daughter (or in my case, granddaughter) if it were me.
posted on August 28, 2001 01:22:23 PM
if the item really does only weigh 1 lb., the seller was overcharging for shipping - imo.
so much is a matter of perspective - mine is from a buyer/seller in the u.s., shipping and receiving shipments nearly exclusively via priority mail. so when i see $5.20 in a u.s. auction (at least in my category), i think priority. as eventer pointed out, that's an assumption. someone used to flat shipping rates sees the same thing and sees it differently.
it's possible the seller uses a template, or auction software, and just hasn't gotten around to changing it yet. unless s/he is selling an awful lot of these items, it doesn't make sense s/he is trying to bamboozle international buyers by not stating the shipping amount is for u.s. only. not to mention, causing the seller time-consuming headaches!
lowprofile,
if you don't get a refund, then yes, a neg is of course in order. meantime, since you don't know for certain otherwise, assume the seller just didn't want to eat the extra shipping fees on an already low-priced item, and will refund you. again, i think the seller might have tried to find a way to work things out with you, but didn't, and should have made the shipping clearer in the listing. give it a little time. it'll teach your daughter patience, and to assume the better of people until you know otherwise . then if the seller doesn't refund, the right thing is to leave a neg.
oh, and nowwhat, thank you. however this was an item i've often bought and sold before - always received by and shipped via priority. but good to know that.
posted on August 28, 2001 01:27:10 PMlowprofile:
Is this plaque something you can only get in the US?
Is it hard to find?
Thinking of your daughter...
if it doesn't work out with the seller, I would be happy to use my shop-a-holic tendencies to find *it* for her and ship it to Canada.
(hopefully it is common here?)
* teehee, I don't ship out of the US for eBayer's, but I will gladly do it for your little girl *
posted on August 28, 2001 01:47:39 PM
I think it was one of a kind...its no big deal my daughter picked something else..
What really gets me mad is the seller has not sent my money back. How long should I wait?
Its a small amount but it is mine.
Shows the sell has no integrity.
I won another item a copuple of months ago and the seller would not contact me...then they relisted it and it sold for more...I sniped it in the last few seconds and got it for about 20 bucks less that they go for...I guess the seller did not like it that I sniped. I should assume that bids withing the last 5 seconds dont count weather they put that in the listing or now.
posted on August 28, 2001 02:17:06 PMzoomin ~ It was nice of you to offer to find the plaque for lowprofile's little girl!
[ edited by nowwhat on Aug 28, 2001 02:17 PM ]
I have an idea. It has worked for me. If you still want the item then tell the seller to go ahead and send the item and when it arrives any postage over the 5.20 that the post office postage shows you will happily pay. If is does not weight much there might not be any overage and if there is a few cents or even a dollar or so you will know the exact pastage and the seller show be willing to do this.
I had a buyer that claimed most of the items they receive only cost the 3.20 priority (back when it was that) and that the 5.00 I was charging including insurance was way too high. I told the buyer that this piece being a cast iron door stop there was no way it it was only going to cost 3.20 and it would most likly be over the 5.00 and I would have to eat the extra postage. I said if you only send the 3.20 I will ship the item as long as you promised to pay ALL the postage over the 3.20. The buyer said never mind and sent the 5.00 shipping. The item bu the way cost almost 7.00 to ship and I ate the 2.00 because I did state 5.00 shipping in my listing.
posted on August 28, 2001 03:50:37 PMMy point being, in thread, after thread, after thread, we beg, plead, scream at buyers AND sellers NOT TO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS.
Some axioms of business:
-people make assumptions contrary to the intention of a written descripions
-people writing descriptions make mistakes or use ambiguous terminology
While we can try to avoid either, begging others to not to do so is nearly pointless. They aren't making a concious decision to do so in the first place.
Usually they aren't making a conscious decision.
But sometimes they are making a conscious decision. A buyer might seize on an error and attempt to exploit that for monetary value. A seller might use ambiguous terminology, allowing a buyer to assume something not literally claimed. A pox on such people.
The bottom line for most business transactions is that neither side is attempting to stick the other with an unwanted transaction, regardless of how the transaction came to be unwanted. If one's goal is to stick the other, one is on the wrong side of any sensible business ethic.
Thus, the seller who seeks to add additional shipping to Canada should not be forced into shipping at a lower price.
The buyer who is unwilling to pay an extra $8 to Canada should not be forced into paying the higher price.
The transaction simply fails. Seller keeps the merchandise, buyer keeps the money. Life proceeds. If seller is uncooperative in returning the money, seller is dead wrong on this count.
posted on August 28, 2001 04:16:47 PM
How does one explain why the seller would continue to list auctions in the same manner...even after admitting it was an oversight.
posted on August 28, 2001 04:17:21 PM
Ah well a few more sellers dropping international shipping. Do I need to state in my listings that I won't falsify customs documents as well? This thread illustrates the need to take a hard unyielding line with furiners in your TOS: no credit card payments, quote global priority shipping to Asia in all listings for international sales (no exceptions even/especially for Canucks), no lying on customs forms, etc., etc. SHEESH!
In other words no wiggle room.
[ edited by bemused on Aug 28, 2001 04:18 PM ]
I've had a handful of people balk at shipping since I've been selling. Almost all were on heavy items where I had to state the weight and my zip code because shipping varied. I practically begged people in my TOS to email me for quotes to their zips before bidding, but they didn't.
I let anyone out of the transaction who wanted out. Two did and one offered to pay any fees I'd incurred.
In this situation, if it's a small plaque, and I'm reading the USPS website correctly, there should be no more than $3-4 difference, so I can see where you'd feel burned when the seller asked for an additional $8. Now, if the item is larger than fits into a Global Flat Priority envelope, or within Letter Post measurements: Max. length 24", Max. length, height, depth combined 36", then your seller is not out of line.
You paid before being sent an eoa. Some buyers do, but it's almost a pain - though of course I'd never tell one of my buyers that. I can't think of another situation where people pay a bill before they get it.
I think both parties made small errors. I would hope you let the seller out of this if s/he refunds your money.
A neg for this? I wouldn't if I were made whole - i.e. I have my money back. Technically, you're correct in your perception of what was written. But do you neg someone for an error? I don't.
Edited because I read lowprofile's last post after I'd posted: If the seller is still listing that way, and if the auctions are still worded the same way, then I guess some kind of feedback is in order. I save negs for out and out ripoffs. Alerting other buyers is fine though, and a neutral here might be better.
posted on August 28, 2001 06:11:27 PM
Kiawok has been the one to finally get me to ship internationally, and I must say my international buyers have been super. The bidder I am deeply and homicidally regretting at the moment is an American...a ridiculous caricature of an American bidder.
posted on August 28, 2001 09:25:40 PM
hey lowprofile
as a seller i stand by you. the seller stated a shipping price and just as an item with the wrong price sticker on it must be honored. i learned my lesson [eating alot of shipping charges]. so i stopped posting shipping prices. email me before bidding.nuteral is more like it.
posted on August 29, 2001 07:32:24 AM
Errors??? I did not make an error.
I bid on the item and followed the guidelines in the listing the seller made the error...and no I think it is not an error since they are still listing auctions in the same way.
Sounds like a good way to snag international buyers without scaring them away with the high shipping. If a regular store pulled stuff like this they would be breaking the law.
They refunded my money last night...I have decided to leave no negative...
posted on August 29, 2001 08:30:01 AMlowprofile - I'm also glad they finally refunded your payment. Having returned to this thread & read the past couple of pages, I cannot believe some of the crap I'm seeing. You weren't the one in the wrong here! I just hope that your daughter found another one that she loves just as much!
I still stand by my original estimation that this "seller" was trying to gouge! If it weighed btwn 1lb & 2lbs it would go for btwn $3.75 & $6.35 air letter post. Besides, the seller didn't specify that the $5.20 ship cost was for US only and, the buyer knowing what they were bidding on was aware as to the size of the item upfront, it would seem reasonable to expect the quote to be across the board unless otherwise specified or eluded to.
posted on August 29, 2001 08:58:27 AM
Triggerfish:
Thanks for the support... I was surpised how all the sellers were so quick to jump down my throat. It took them no time to decide that I was trying to pull a fast one.
I am sick of some of the sellers on Ebay with their high and mighty atitude that the Seller is Always Right!
I was surprised how a good majority sided with the seller so quickly..
posted on August 29, 2001 09:24:02 AMErrors??? I did not make an error.
Correct.
However, you were one end of a miscommunication. Seller intended those words to convey to different set of information than you received.
Since seller created the ambiguous wording, we don't have much sympathy for seller's having to cover any transaction costs when the transaction falls apart due to this miscommunication.
However, we similarly don't have much sympathy for you covering buyer's "expenses" in the failed transaction, such as your time and effort invested. The desired interpretation was quite possible, but you missed it, and even missed the possibility that you had missed it. Not an error, but not a brilliant play either. In football terms, not a dropped ball, but surely a missed opportunity for a great catch.
By strong default, the evidence suggests that, to seller, the wording is not ambiguous, even in the face of your misunderstanding. Seller seems to think you tried to get something for nothing.
The point is both buyer and seller are willing in this case to assume deliberate miscommunication of the other, while the truth seems far more likely that they both tried to communicate but failed. The blaming of each other prevents both from correcting things they can control, so as to prevent the problem in the future.
posted on August 29, 2001 09:27:35 AM
You shouldn't assume that the shipping rate is the same to Canada, you're just asking for trouble, and you found it. It is naive on your part. Why didn't you email the seller before the auction to clarify the terms? After all, you bought on a U.S. site, and the seller was addressing U.S. residents. I know there'd be a flag going up in my mind, shipping is the same worldwide? That would be ludicrous.
posted on August 29, 2001 09:43:14 AMI was surpised how all the sellers were so quick to jump down my throat.
lowprofile, in all fairness not all the sellers here jumped down your throat. You did get support from some sellers here.
It doesn't surprise me at all though the way that many jump to quick conclusions without all the facts. It happens all the time and I think it stops many lurkers from bringing their problems to these boards.
Right now I have a problem with a transaction but I will never bring it here for that very reason.
posted on August 29, 2001 09:47:56 AM
You're configuring the situation to your favor. You knew that when you bid fully aware that if the seller charged you extra you would take advantage by forcing the seller to his terms. While international shipping box is checked, that does not mean the shipping price is the same worldwide. You would be on the same level as a crook if if in fact you say you weren't acting naively.
posted on August 29, 2001 09:51:29 AM
lowprofile
It's too bad that this had to end like this, but am glad you got your refund.
Roofguy
miscommunication???
The seller knows that they should "fix" the tos, but the fact is that they will not do so. That tell's me one thing, they are lower than a snake in a wagon wheel rut.
. then if the seller doesn't refund, the right thing is to leave a neg.
