No! Its not important...
I am not suppose to be a mind reader.
The listing was very clear. Had the not listed it with a shipping fee I would have emailed them. How do you explain the fact that after the seller told me they should list diferently to make it more clear on shipping outside the USA...they post 40 more auctions with the same wording.
kiara:
Your right ..I should have said "I am suprised how many of the sellers"
posted on August 29, 2001 09:59:22 AM
quickdraw29:
When I bid I was fully aware of what the listing said..I never had anything else on my mind. And I never forced the seller to do anything..I was polite and told them they should refund me and in the future change there shipping terms in their listings.
As for me been a crook..I am the farthest thing from that and I resent the fact that you are calling me that without even knowing me...I have done nothing wrong.
quickdraw29 is only posting here to defame me.
He is not addressing the facts.
Here are a couple of his comments which I resent.
By the way I have a special offer for you, a Rolex watch for $20.
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same level as a crook if if in fact you say you weren't acting naively.
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Of course it's clear to you, how else can you justify your naivety?
How can you continue to let him/her post like this. One should feel free to post here without getting bashed and defamed by some one like this poster. Dont you have rules about this sort of thing?
posted on August 29, 2001 10:21:54 AM
Only one thing is clear, and it's that we'll never convince lowprofile that s/he made a questionable assumption.
No one is saying anyone is a crook. But look at it from the other side. Presumably you have bought stuff from USA sellers before. And I presume that many, if not all of them charge you more than they do US folks. Given your past experience, you should have come into it, with at least the notion that sellers usually charge more to ship to canada than to US.
Why would you then assume that the seller means "worldwide" when he says "Shipping 5.20". I would think you would assume going in that it would be more, and certainly ask before bidding if it was going to be a dealbreaker for you.
Of course, the real answer here is that sellers should be very unambiguous in their TOS.
...they post 40 more auctions with the same wording.
Maybe they had already prepared those auctions beforehand and did not go back to change all 40 of them. I know I sure wouldn't take the time to do that, given how few international buyers I get.
posted on August 29, 2001 10:29:51 AMHow do you explain the fact that after the seller told me they should list diferently to make it more clear on shipping outside the USA...they post 40 more auctions with the same wording.
Is it possible that the seller has been listing auctions like this all along, and this is the first time he's received a complaint? And that he refunded your money and told you that to be agreeable, rather than getting into an argument with you about it?
posted on August 29, 2001 10:30:37 AM
The rolex example was to illustrate how legally you would not have a case because commons sense says you can't get a rolex for $20. Shipping worldwide for $5.20, common sense also says that can't realistically be done.
It is important to this thread to determine your intentions when you bid because you are trying to determine if the seller is at fault or you are.
Both you and the seller are in the wrong. But since you didn't clarify an obvious miscommunication mistake by the seller before you bid, you didn't avoid something that was clearly avoidable.
Swallow your loss (well you caught a break) and lesson learned, two wrongs don't make a right.
posted on August 29, 2001 10:35:28 AM
I would call their attention to the wording of the auction and mabe try to find a compromise that will allow you both to come away with a positive. Mabe you could split the extra charges.
posted on August 29, 2001 10:43:47 AM
You did it again! Why would the seller automatically ship airmail letter under your presumption? It costed me $15 to ship a two pound Global Priority to Canada once.
posted on August 29, 2001 12:03:34 PM
In our TOS, we state that we ship surface mail worldwide for $5.00 US. (We're located in Canada.) Why shouldn't lowprofile believe what he reads in the TOS? We talk on these boards all the time about how important it is to have clear descriptions and TOS, so sellers and buyers both avoid miscommunication.
In the news a few months ago they did a story on a guy in CA who found a coupon in a newspaper from the 60's with no expiry date. It was for a auto paint job, $80.00. The company was still in business and was forced to honor the coupon.
On the flip side, a gas company in the Maritime Provinces printed scratch & win tickets and got the odds wrong. Suddenly, instead of one winner, they had hundreds. That company didn't follow through on the error, and the winners were not impressed. It was a PR nightmare for the company.
I think the seller should have honored the error, or at least been more prompt in refunding. Regardless of the motives involved on either side.
posted on August 29, 2001 01:37:18 PM
"In our TOS, we state that we ship surface mail worldwide for $5.00 US. (We're located in Canada.) Why shouldn't lowprofile believe what he reads in the TOS?"
Because charging less for what it costs to ship is abnormal!
posted on August 29, 2001 01:44:41 PM
The seller should have translated his listing in every country's language in which he accepts bids to avoid miscommunication!! After all, "a large vase," might translate into "Big ugly hairy butt," in Chinese.
"Now if he DIDN'T mean for shipping worldwide to be 5.20, why isn't it stated otherwise in the TOS? Got any CLEAR answers for that?"
Because it's a U.S. site and 99% of his bidders are Americans, and the 1% international bidders never had a problem figuring it out.
posted on August 29, 2001 01:45:59 PMNow if he DIDN'T mean for shipping worldwide to be 5.20, why isn't it stated otherwise in the TOS? Got any CLEAR answers for that?
hi eventer
i'm not wbbell, but ...
i think one thing everyone agrees on is the seller should have stated his/her tos more clearly. obviously i don't know anything about the seller other than what's been presented here, but i think these are the most likely reasons:
1. seller is new to selling internationally; made the mistake of assuming everyone would realize the quoted shipping price was for u.s. shipping
2. seller isn't new to selling internationally, has always listed his/her shipping this way and this is the first time there's been a misunderstanding
3. seller is deliberately trying to make international buyers think shipping is less than it really is, only to inform buyers of the much steeper shipping costs after the auction has ended
posted on August 29, 2001 01:58:37 PMBecause it's a U.S. site and 99% of his bidders are Americans, and the 1% international bidders never had a problem figuring it out.
Amazing you could read ALL that in the seller's mind from the few short words in his TOS.
You heard it here first, folks. Just because it's stated in writing, don't assume it's correct..be sure & call Miss Cleo to ask what's in the seller's mind.
posted on August 29, 2001 02:12:28 PM
I was stating a strong possibility for the sellers actions, afterall, you did ask why the seller would state $5.20 shipping if not to cover worldwide shipping, and the seller is not here to answer, so all we can do is try to put ourselves in the sellers shoes. Nice sarcastic remark anyway, it had me rolling.
posted on August 29, 2001 02:20:02 PM
Suppose the seller were posting here regarding this transaction rather than the buyer- what do you think the chances are that the description of what happened would be just the same?
For the record, (and I'm not taking sides here), there are two sides (at least) to every story, and we've only heard one of them.
posted on August 29, 2001 03:55:17 PM
For the people considering the shipping costs to Canada, a LOT depends on whether this is an item that needs to be boxed. Perhaps it's fragile enough at 1-2 lbs as a wooden plaque (I think that's what we know about it?) that even a large bubble mailer wouldn't be considered secure by the seller? Here's what is on the USPS site, entering 1 Lb 2 Oz as the weight:
"Airmail letter post 4-7 days $4.40"
"Airmail parcel post 4-7 days $13.25" (!!!)
"Economy (surface) parcel post 4-6 WEEKS $15.25" (!!^&%^!!)
What if this item is something like a carved or undercut wooden widget and could be cracked or smushed if not in a rigid box? Keep these rates in mind, to me a base quote of $15 for a 2Lb box to Canada sounds completely normal and something that the initiator of this thread must have known. Even if this particular purchase could go in a padded envelope, the price info is irrelevant for anything that should be boxed.
Suppose, too, that the seller doesn't routinely use bubble-wrap mailers and would have to go out and buy one retail for this one shipment?
This is why I mostly say on my shipping terms, "No Foreign, including Canada."
posted on August 29, 2001 04:38:42 PMNow why would YOU assume the seller meant that he WOULD NOT ship worldwide for 5.20?
A recent management buzzword we heard at work was the "success-oriented approach". If there is any doubt as to the outcome of your actions, and a choice must be made, take the one that has a greater probability of success.
Given: I live in canada and have bought a bunch of junk before and I know it usually costs more to ship to me than to a USA buyer. Some sellers don't specifically call out shipping to canada. Some sellers probably never even thought about it. And this here is a Seller who only says "Shipping $5.20".
Choice 1: Seller really meant $5.20 Worldwide.
Choice 2: Seller might not have meant $5.20 Worldwide.
Which choice is more likely to be the correct one? Answer honestly.
posted on August 29, 2001 05:00:30 PM
Every international bidder that stumbles into my auction is now met with a TOS that tells him these rates will change for international shipping.
I used to NOT do that. Until the guy from New Zealand wanted me to ship to him Priority for $3.95.
Sigh.
Lowprofile. I can't understand how you can expect the rate to be the same for domestic as international, even though it's just across the border.
I never never never never assume. Sellers always get an email from me for deliniation of shipping.
If you've been hanging around AW for more than 6 months that's like the top ten tips for bidders: Assume nothing except abject lazy stupidity from sellers, then there is nowhere to go but up. Even if it's to Kindly busy or Forgetful. Get it in writing in email exactly how the shipping will be sent and where they expect that cost will get the item. I buy abroad, but since a lot of grey marketeers know they are selling to US, they usually breakdown their costs.
What is worse is how I started as a newbie: assuming that all sellers were like me, intelligent, detail oriented etc.
Oh they are, and there are tons out there, tons.
And I don't mean this pejoratively, I am also a seller.
Please note that you can protect yourself without devolving to insulting an insolent remarks in emails. (Take note quickdraw29)
I just have learned that for every 5 awesome cool folks I work with, repeat buy from and recommend to friends, there is one absolute greedy fool who hasn't got anything better to do than lie through his teeth about condition etc.
So with that personal - albeit anecdotal - experience in mind, I plan ahead by asking questions, armoured with their own words should they shirk, deride, forget or omit important agreed upon steps in shipping, packaging, included content, etc.
Anyhow, so ultimately, you were wrong.
Sorry, it's just not fair to assume that domestic and international are going to be the same.
The fellow from NZ was happy with the $5 airmail option. I got paid, he left happy feedback..trala trala!
Have a nice day!
