DrTrooth
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posted on August 29, 2001 03:18:00 PM
I was wondering just how long such a scenario would take to become public.
The issue of feedback/ID not being transferrable was one my big issues when I signed up with Ebay 3 years ago. the way it was worded/interpreted never seemed real or legal, and certainly at odds with the concept of personal/business property and Ebays beloved "we are only a venue" status.
At the time I went round & round with those on the live Support Board and all they could/would do was point me in the direction of the User Agreement. I have always believed that it was BS and not something that they could enforce in any way shape or form.
Now, to the Originator....do not go taking 1 lone email from your spin of the Wheel of Support to mean that it counts. It does not. What WILL count however is something in writing from the corporate counsel of Ebay, and before you go and try it I would certainly want something like that to bolster my position.
Go to an accountant and let them value the business for you.
Good luck.
Dr. Trooth
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REAMOND
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posted on August 29, 2001 03:42:09 PM
If you ask eBay if you can sell you User ID and FB, the answer will be NO.
But if you sell your business and include the User ID and FB, the answer will be YES.
In fact, there would be few ways to enforce the no sale of IDs TOS.
If I sold my business and gave the new owner my passwords, they could then go to eBay and change the contact information. In reality, I would actually go in and change the contact information to make sure it got done.
I will be changing my business form from a self propriator business to a sub chap S Corp in the new year. It will require me to transfer the business assets from myself to the Corp. My eBay User ID and FB will be assets of the Corp. and not me the individual.
This transfer would be no different than transfering to another individual.
Even if eBay would not allow this type of transfer, it would be impossible to keep track of and enforce.
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DrTrooth
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posted on August 29, 2001 03:56:54 PM
off the top of my head........in any transfer, would not the change of Billing info be a trigger?
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dman3
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posted on August 29, 2001 04:04:42 PM
the main reason for there TOS on this matter is because tranfering your Feedback is dishonest feed back is something every seller needs to earn for them self.
your feed back can in no way represent another useing it, in fact doing this you may well become equilly responcble if they fraud buyers..
with out makeing a public annoncement there is no way for buyers to know the ID or feed back has been sold or tranfered and to trransfer it is against ebays Terms to publically announce it would get the ID and feed back suspended.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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REAMOND
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posted on August 29, 2001 04:05:58 PM
I don't know what it might "trigger".
If my brother paid my eBay bill each month with a personal check, would eBay reject the check ? If he paid my eBay bill each month with his credit card would eBay reject it ?
If my eBay account is in my name and I pay my eBay bill with my Corp's credit card, would eBay reject the payment ?
If I recall, my eBay account is in my name, but is paid by a credit card in my wife's name.
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dman3
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posted on August 29, 2001 04:11:59 PM
your Ebay ID wont become assets of your Corp since your Ebay ID has the Ebay trade name and Domain address its only an asset to Ebay you dont own it ebay allows you to use it and ebay can take it away.
the frist part of your bussinesses domain address is Http://ebay.com what does that tell you about whom it belongs too...
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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REAMOND
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posted on August 29, 2001 05:14:28 PM
It tells me the domain name is eBay's, but the intangible asset of the user ID and FB belong to my business.
These assets can even be used at other sites. I have converted eBay feedback to FB at other sites, as well as received listing credits based on my eBay FB rating.
Under your thinking, everything you write on Microsoft Word must be the property of Microsoft, since they own the software it was created on.
eBay has dominion over how the User ID and feedback are used on their site, but they don't "own" these assets.
edited to add: My user ID doesn't have a domain name on it, nor does my FB.
[ edited by REAMOND on Aug 29, 2001 05:19 PM ]
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vargas
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posted on August 29, 2001 05:15:42 PM
in any transfer, would not the change of Billing info be a trigger?
Not if the eBay "member" is operating under a business name. Businesses move, businesses get new employees who are responsible for being the "contact" for that part of the business.
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DrTrooth
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posted on August 29, 2001 05:45:56 PM
Do we get to see the email?
Does the Buyer pay you in your currency or in US dollars? If dollars, then you could be reaping about what.....40% more than the real value due to the exchange rate? Unless of course it is sold to a fellow countryman.
I have always wondered about that....Canadian Sellers have a built in escaltor if they collect in US dollars.......should they not get paid in their own funds?
Dr. Trooth
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dejapooh
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posted on August 29, 2001 06:32:42 PM
Why not sell it on ebay?
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retailguy
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posted on August 29, 2001 06:53:48 PM
Lowprofile,
contact me privately about this, I do have some interest and would like to have a private discussion with you.
[email protected]
Thanks,
retailguy
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pointy
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posted on August 29, 2001 06:56:49 PM
To try and help evaluate the business value, please answer the following:
.
1. You say only 1 hour work a day...this is total, including all shipping, traveling, etc. time?
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2. You say costs are minimal...this means all costs, including cost of goods sold are less than 1% of sales..is this correct?.
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3. If you were preparing a business plan, what would be your projected sales for 2002?
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4. You are in Canada...what % of your customers are Canadians?
.
5. Average sale amount per auction and per customer?
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computerboy
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posted on August 29, 2001 06:57:57 PM
Regarding the sale of your business, it is difficult to give a blanket evaluation on the value. There are many variables to consider. The type of business, ease of replication, probability of ongoing concern vs. return of investment, etc. would all need to be considered in arriving at a number. Your operation would be considered a very small business (I have a business that does 5 million plus annually and it is considered small for acquisition), so the likelyhood you would find a suiter outside of another eBay seller is small. The potential buyer would need to already be selling on eBay and would acquire you to expand the revenue base of their operation.
One method that is used in arriving at a value of a business is on a multiple of earnings. A good base formula is 2-3 times annual earnings. When the web frenzy was going on, the multiple for many of the high profile online companies was 20+, but it is now back to reality. The 2-3 time multiple would be a good realistic starting point for you to use.
If you are really interested in selling the operation, you have to be prepared to open your books for the potential buyer, so they have the opportunity to do their due diligence. They must be given the opportunity to scrutinize the numbers and try and get a grasp of the operation and its accounting. If things progress, you'll have to then factor any accounts receivable, debt or any other considerations that have the potential of being an asset or liability to the company.
If all of the above seems complex, it's because it is and I recommend that you seek the advise of financial and legal council if you are serious.
Best of luck to you!
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ohiobooks
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posted on August 29, 2001 08:01:05 PM
uaru,
But if the userid is the property of a business, then it isn't really being transferred. It's still property of the business. The business just has a different owner.
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dman3
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posted on August 29, 2001 08:11:55 PM
When it comes to an online auction sellers ID and feed back and its sold it not the same bussiness no MORE.
What if the bigest best Powerseller sold there ID to some one who has had many IDs suspened for fraud Just because they bought the #1 selling name on ebay it would make then the same #1 ebay bussiness I think not ......
and as far as selling ID and feedback to move to another auction site if the name is not taken or being used there already what is to stop them from regitering the name for free.
selling the Bussiness end of your auctions is one thing selling the feed back and ID is a totally different issue.
when a buyer checks feed back they are checking to see the reputation a seller has earned the the rep they bought.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
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vargas
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posted on August 29, 2001 08:58:57 PM
So, did Disney stop being Disney when it was bought by ABC?
If ABC were to sell Disney to another corporation, would eBay take away Disney's feedback?
NO
What about any of the other big businesses that change hands so often?
Heck, I work for one of the top brand names in the world and our ownership has changed twice in the last three years. Has our company changed the way it does things? YES. Always for the better? NO.
Businesses change hands all the time. Trust me, when a really big business that sells on eBay changes hands, the feedback will go with the business.
We're not in Kansas anymore.
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genxmike
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posted on August 29, 2001 09:31:49 PM
Our IDs are registered in the name of our corporation. We have a contact person involved with each ID but they belong to the corporation.
If I sell my shares of the corporation to another shareholder, I will no longer have access to the IDs. A different person will be in charge. But the ID will still reside within the Corporation.
The Feedback obtained will still be valid because it was feedback gained by the corporation. Just because someone else is running the corporation does not mean they will not uphold the values of the previous operator.
An EBAY ID and Feedback cannot be sold seperately but can be sold as part of the whole of a business.
Too many people think an EBAY ID represents a single person sitting in their bedroom. Ours represents the corporation which employs 10 people to run the auctions. If one of those 10 people leaves, do we have to start an entirely new ID. Of course not.
Think outside the box people. It is perfectly legitimate to sell an ID and its feedback as part of a business because they are the business.
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whitemist
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posted on August 30, 2001 03:11:10 AM
LOWPROFILE
email me please
[email protected]
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celebrityskin
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posted on August 30, 2001 06:56:10 AM
"It has over 3500 all positive feedback."
I would guess that you were not too big on leaving negatives for deadbeats!!
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celebrityskin
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posted on August 30, 2001 07:06:50 AM
"Here is my sales since Jan 1 2001. I have been on Ebay since 1997.
Total Ebay Sales -17765.23 USD "
$17,765?
Since January!
I did $20,000+ last week alone! Maybe I should sell mine! haha
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hwahwahwahwa
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posted on August 30, 2001 07:20:49 AM
the business does not sound too appealing,i agree ,another ebay seller may want to consider as an expansion of his existing business,question is to make sure the seller does not set up shop again and competea- a non compete contract on ebay ??
it could be attractive to someone who is looking to sell on ebay fast,someone who is either too lazy or just cannot find anything to sell and want to step right in and start selling.
personally a high feedback is not worth much in an auction,does any bidder miss any particular seller if he is out of the picture??
question as to what currency should it be in?it is the currency as stated by the seller,if he wants us dollars then the buyer will cough up us dollars.or the equivalent in local currency,if acceptable to seller,i assume he is in canada.
17.000 sales in 8 months is not that much.
another way to evaluate the business is net cashflow,which is better than net earings,what is the net cashflow in us dollars??
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hwahwahwahwa
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posted on August 30, 2001 07:26:19 AM
we could all be selling our business,at this stage and receive PEANUTS for it.
it would be better to just keep on working to diversify and develop a storefront along with ebay auction selling .
a storefront is worthmore than a flea market business.
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REAMOND
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posted on August 30, 2001 08:40:05 AM
If you only put in 1 hour a day on the eBay biz, and you're going back to teaching, why sell the business ?
It looks to me as though you could still hold the teaching job and run the eBay business with little problem.
The gross sales and time don't really amount to a full time job, so think of it as part time.
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hwahwahwahwa
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posted on August 30, 2001 09:24:44 AM
depends on what you are selling,paper goods like post cards and prints ,17,000 in 8 months could be a lot of orders.
if it is very profitable ,like cogs is 1 %,why sell it??
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beekmanbooks
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posted on August 30, 2001 11:24:53 AM
I only have idea about this...
lowprofile - you said that your wife wants to go back to teaching...
What are you going to do then?
Why cant you just stay home and do the eBay stuff yourself?
Sorry if I'm getting too personal, but that was the main curious thing to me.
Otherwise, have your entire business appraised by mulitple real-life pros.
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hwahwahwahwa
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posted on August 30, 2001 11:28:05 AM
are you asking this guy to be a house husband?????
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JMHO2
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posted on August 30, 2001 11:48:40 AM
$17M in 8 months to some people is alot of money. Most people where I live make $15M or less a year.
I wondered why, if his wife is going back to teaching and his business only takes an hour a day to do (not bad for $17M in 8 months either), does he have to quit this? Even if they both worked full time, an hour a day is nothing for the profits he's making.
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DrTrooth
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posted on August 30, 2001 11:51:09 AM
well.........if one was trolling for prospects to buy and on-line auction business I cannot think of a better venue....can you? Cost free as well.
If it sounds too good to be true.......
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Libra63
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posted on August 30, 2001 01:05:15 PM
I would like to ask a few questions?
1. Why would you give up an income like that to go back into the real world of business, especially teaching when children (kids) are not disiplined.
2. With an income like you make on ebay how does it take only 1 hour a day?
3. Do both of you work?
Just a little insite on your background. Now if you don't want to tell me that's okay as I will understand.
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beekmanbooks
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posted on August 30, 2001 01:07:11 PM
If they are currently both staying home and doing eBay biz, it seems to me like he already is a househousband, and that's cool to me.
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