posted on September 5, 2001 11:16:06 AM new
It is interesting how the original poster indicate that they "borrow" something from the store. Borrow usually mean you are doing it with someone's permission. In this case, the store is selling merchandise, not lending it out.
To take advantage of a store's policy is not really fair to all consumers. The store return policy is for true consumers, not ebay sellers wanting merchandise for resale. If this practice becomes popular, the store policy will eventually change so all consumers will lose out. See how many stores no longer will take back videocams without a restocking charge. This is due to buyers "borrowing" it to video an event and returning it.
How many ebay sellers with 10 day return policies will feel this buyer is being honorable? How would you feel if this buyer does it to you?
And to top if off, buyer does not try it with only one unit. But, three units at once. Even though buyer clearly does not know computers and how to even price it.
posted on September 5, 2001 11:28:13 AM new
"The store return policy is for true consumers, not ebay sellers wanting merchandise for resale"
I've never seen such an exclusion in the posted policy of any store.
"And to top if off, buyer does not try it with only one unit. But, three units at once. Even though buyer clearly does not know computers and how to even price it"
umm...relevancy? You mean 1 unit would be ok, but 3 is not? How is 2? And why is ability to price an item even an issue here?
Now, as far as this person being "fair" or "honorable", we'd have to set some definitions of those first, since they vary, person by person.
posted on September 5, 2001 11:40:34 AM new
Most stores have policies regarding wholesalers and quantities. Just ask them next time you are in.
Clearly, knowing how to price is relevant here. If the original poster knew what they are doing, there would not be a problem here.
But since the original poster does not know what they are doing, taking three units versus just compound the problem. One versus three has no bearing on morals. However, three just shows greed.
Whether it is fair or honorable, that is what is being discuss.
posted on September 5, 2001 11:49:55 AM new
"Most stores have policies regarding wholesalers and quantities. Just ask them next time you are in"
I have seen store policies on such things. None of them exclude ebay sellers or prohibit reselling. I doubt they'd be legal if they did, by the way. Can you point me to one that does?
"Clearly, knowing how to price is relevant here. If the original poster knew what they are doing, there would not be a problem here"
Interesting...so its all because of her lack of pricing skills? How simple an answer...how could we all have overlooked that?
"One versus three has no bearing on morals. However, three just shows greed""
Now i'm confused...one versus three doesn't matter for morals, but it does for greed? Would two be greedy?
"Whether it is fair or honorable, that is what is being discuss"
Fine..now what is your definition of "fair" and "honorable"?
posted on September 5, 2001 12:40:05 PM new
When I had a Sellers Account on eBay, instead of buying the stuff Willy-Nilly, I usually jotted down items, ran back to my car, and fired up the old Laptop.
10 Minutes Later, I would return to the store, pick and choose, and leave.
Simple as that. Of course, granted, someone could pick up the item and buy it during that time, but at least I planned out my attack.
That, and I carefully look at the Return Policies. I only returned items IF I HAD TO!!
-------------------------
On another subject, would guys feel sympathetic about Employees using their Discounts to sell afterwards? I know of one person that buys up junk from where she works, and sells them at a profit.
Even the managers she works under don't even care; they just know it contributes to the bottom line. She spends maybe $100 (After Discounts) per week.
Even the company doesn't seem to raise a stink; they "oblige" by sending even more junk to the store for her to buy.
She even boasts the First-Sale Doctrine; "It's mine, I paid for it, the Company can't fire me for seling it elsewhere."
Any questions?
:\\\\\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
posted on September 5, 2001 12:50:46 PM newNone of them exclude ebay sellers or prohibit reselling. I doubt they'd be legal
I don't believe anyone has said that a store should or would prevent anyone from reselling, including on ebay.
What IS being debated, is using a store and it's return policies to fund your ebay inventory with zero risk to yourself.
Buying up a quantity of items in hoping of reselling & making a profit is quite a bit different from buying an item and it turn out to be the wrong size.
And I find the argument, "well, just everyone's doing it" to be ridiculous.
We have a fair representation of average ebay sellers here, how many of you do this ON A REGULAR BASIS?
posted on September 5, 2001 01:38:42 PM new
Quote:
saweemosman:
come on, it is easy to see this, haven't you guys investigated your competitors auctions. I do, and I run across lots and lots of people who have big "fill in the best kid store here" lots going. And over and over, and when you check out their "other auctions" you find more of the same. This is especially true in the babylulu kids clothes.
**********
You know, it never crossed my mind that people were buying this stuff on clearance and returning it to the store if it didn't sell. I mean, really, children's clothes don't sell for THAT much and I can't imagine people going through all that for a few bucks of profit.
I had always assumed that many sellers just have reliable sources for off-price and liquidation merchandise, as many do.
I have a friend who is a jobber. She sold some children's apparel to an ebay seller at 25% of retail. This basically came out to $5 a unit, brand name, designer children's apparel. So the lady wanted a refund because she had to lower her price to $2.50 to sell them. My friend says "it's not my fault this woman can't think of a way to profitable sell her merchandise. I'm not a retail store, I don't give refunds." Maybe this lady is one of the sellers you were referring to, someone who completely passes along the inventory risk to others (or tries to).
Moving along, it seems like you are in a bind and don't know where to get branded children's apparel for a low price. Drop me an email at [email protected] and maybe I can help you out. But this kind of stuff you have to buy, all sales final, no returns. This is not a promotional email, I don't actually sell this stuff nor have any interest in its sale.
But I could not imagine having the gall to buy stuff for ebay and returning it if it does not sell. I just can't imagine.
posted on September 5, 2001 03:10:22 PM new
When I return something to Home Depot or some such store, I always have to fill out a form with my name, address, and phone number. I assume they enter this information into a data base to track people who are somehow fraudulently using the return policies. Nobody here has mentioned that they always have to provide their ID information when they return something. If buyers were to make a habit of this, I suppose the store would catch up with them.
Also, a question for Crystalline: When you used your laptop in your car to check prices, were you using it with your cell phone? How did that work?
posted on September 5, 2001 03:21:19 PM new
talk about greed or a quick way of making a few hundred dollars,use your cc to buy a few big ticket items and flip them on ebay.what is the downside risk ?none if you think you can return it within 10-14 days and have the sales credited to your cc before the statement arrives.
a few months ago,i listed an antique bronze repro figurine on ebay and someone savvy spotted it as a very old model and use BIN with visa.
then he asked me if it were antique,i said no.
then i shipped the item usps priority in the big red box from houston to washington dc.
then he asked again if it were antique,i said no.
then he called me and asked the same question,it turned out he is hoping to resell it and thinking it is a rare antique,he bot and then asked question.
since now he knows it is not antique,he kept emailing me every day saying he has not received it and so he wants to dispute the item with visa as the statement will be coming soon and he does not want to pay or pay interest.
i told him no way is he going to dispute the item and i emailed cc to ebay powerseller service and told him we need to file claim with usps after 30 days and if anyone in his complex stole it (it is insured with the blue slip),then he/she will be prosecuted,
what do you know,he said it arrived the next day!!!!!!!
posted on September 5, 2001 03:26:33 PM new
saweemosman
why don't we rephrase the question . what if you sold one of your refurb computers and then the buyer wanted to return it a few weeks later becouse he couldn't sell it at a profit ?
would you feel a refund was justified ?
spock here......
posted on September 5, 2001 05:56:14 PM new
As someone who has worked in large department store with a liberal return policy I find some of the assumptions here really curious.
So-called, "real" buyer purchases item and returns it opened and tags removed. Item can no longer be sold as new so has to go on discount or be returned to supplier.
Reseller buys item, can't turn it over and returns it in mint condition with all tags with the possible exception of the store price tag. Item can be placed right back on the shelf and sold as new since there is theoretically nothing wrong with it.
Who is costing the store and by some twisted extension other consumers more money? This theory that people doing this are somehow causing you all higher prices is really overblown and unproven. It almost seems more likely that the reseller may increase the stores profits by exposing the products to a wider audience on the internet and possibly selling more units than might otherwise be moved locally.
I would have no problem doing this if I could find a product that could turn a decent product at say Walmart prices, but I haven't found anything at retail that would be worth the effort. I don't think a seller is morally obligated to take on any risk that they can legally avoid.
If a particular store gets annoyed then simply don't use that store, but having returned items I've bought for personal use and gifts, I can honestly say I've never run into the kind of scrutiny that is theorized in this thread. I find that any store like a Walmart with a liberal return policy couldn't care less why you returned the item unless it is broken, which by the way is the real reason they take your name etc., not to compile some database (how many of you have ever returned something to a store and had the clerk say "Hold on let me check the database."?).
Btw, having sat in many a boring management meeting at the national chain department store I worked at I can report that there was never any discussion of special policies for resellers.
I turn a good profit selling thrift store items some purchased from local Goodwills which have a 14 day return policy. I would never consider returning anything to them that I bought for resale because they are a charity, but a retail store decides in the writing of their return policies to accept all risks associated with them.
posted on September 5, 2001 06:44:06 PM newAlso, a question for Crystalline: When you used your laptop in your car to check prices, were you using it with your cell phone? How did that work?
It's been over a year, but I had this PCI Card that connected to the slot on the phone (where I would also stick the Car Adapter from the Cigarette Lighter).
I got rid of the Laptop, and I can't really provide more info at this point, but there are similar systems out there. Of course, I had someone else paying for it, but it was costly (Around $100 per month for access and maybe around $1,000 for the setup).
:\\\\\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
posted on September 5, 2001 06:49:17 PM new
if a customer keeps returning the merchandise whether with or without tags,whether resale bombed or just dont fit,it raises the cost of doing business for teh store.
clerks are hired to move merchandise,sales go out of door,and in the evening the great company ledger credit sales and debit cost of good sold,the difference called gross profit margin pay for the salary amd wages of employees,rent etc.
if goods keep coming back to the store,how do you account for all that labor spent in buying,stocking ,marketing ??
return policy is figured in as cost of doing business,it enhances goodwill and encourage repeat customer.
to say someone borrow the good and list it on ebay is benefiting the store by giving the product visibility is absurd,stores do plenty of advertising ,they dont need some arbitrager to come in and borrow merchandise and hope to profit from the spread.
we are not talking about goods which cost 10-25 dollars,we are talking about pc costing a few hundred dollars .
posted on September 5, 2001 07:11:28 PM new
for mr. Spock and commentary, and g4, I beg to differ. It is a bit dramatic to call what I am doing as stealing. Please, lose the overstatements. In no court of law would they ever be able to try me as a criminal, no matter what you say.
What I have done may be immoral, or unethical at the worst. As for labor, re-stock, inventory control, have you been into one of these chains lately? The whole gig consists of a (like many said) teenager who swipes your card and calls Joe from computers up to the register to through them back on the floor right where they were in the first place. This store saves has computers set all over the floor. Yes, I feel guilty and I was not looking for sympathy, but calling me a theif and saying prepubescnet things like "I hope you trip over them" is not only harsh, but juevenile. If you say this things with such crass and ease, I doubt you are a moral exemplar for us all in the first place. And I am not so sure that your "principle" would be so high up on the list if you stood to lose 1500 dollars.
And for all the others, thanks for the great advise! I have bids on two out of the three right now!
posted on September 5, 2001 07:16:32 PM new
In a way, what the seller is doing in illegal, in the State and Federal. The seller is buying stock to resell on eBay, probably without a tax/reseller license. Why do I think it is without a license? Because if the seller were buying with a license, the return policy for resellers is totally different, probably involving a restocking fee. And don't think that they can't do anything if you keep returning them. They can just inform the tax department, they can be mean....
[ edited by mark090 on Sep 5, 2001 07:19 PM ]
[ edited by mark090 on Sep 5, 2001 07:20 PM ]
posted on September 5, 2001 07:28:29 PM new
thank you captain kirk and bemused. I think a lot of people are being overdramatic and throwing around unfounded accusations here. We all hear "it costs a store so much to refund, return etc" I really don't buy into this. And for those who say "you are depriving people of the chance to buy it cuz its not there" please, these are common products where 100 others just like them are availiable. We aren't talking rare antiques here where if "I" have it in my house the sale is over for good.
As for me being a thief, get real. What would you call the guy who holds up the store and "takes" the computers.
posted on September 5, 2001 07:32:11 PM new
Anyway, as for me not knowing about computers, that is one thing.
but pricing, I did my homework. My prices are low, but still profitable. I now have bids, I guess things were moving slow for a while.
When I first bought the computers, it was because my husband could not be reached (I was in a computer discount outlet with a lot of steal overhead, hence, no cell phones)--so I bought the PIII 800 and another lesser model because I couldn't decide. I decided to try to turn a profit on one. The one I made a conscious decision to 'SELL" ON EBAY was the one I bought the next day.
Anyway, I won't be making a business out of this, so don't worry. I didn't like the feeling for three days that I'd be going back in there. that's for sure.
posted on September 5, 2001 07:38:56 PM new
hwahwahwahwa
You totally miss the point. The reseller is not advertising for the store he is buying multiple quantities whereas he would normally buy 1 or none if he was a "real" consumer. That is the benefit to the store, more sales.
You seem to make several strange assumptions in an effort to make your point: the store has to hire more personnel to handle reseller returns, the store suffers a loss by having mint goods returned to them, the store sells 100% of their stock without reseller "interference".
Since the resellers purpose is to sell and not to return items for the fun of it why would they continue buying non-performing items from the same store to the extent that the store would need to hire added staff? Why would it be harder to process unopened/mint returns than open/used returns from "real" customers? Whenever I go into Walmart or Best Buy etc the Return desk is doing a brisk business from real "customers" and their is rarely more than 2 people handling the whole lot. You are engaging in hyperbole to try make an unproven point. I've worked a return desk after Christmas and the only added staff were pulled from less critical functions elewhere in the store on a temp basis. Your entire objection seems to rest on the theory that a reseller is stupid enough to keep buying items that they know from experience they can't sell. A retail store doesn't get to decide what a buyer does with the merchandise, they decide their own policies, as someone mentioned before they can at their discretion take steps to discourage abuse. Some stores limit quantities or have return policies that don't open them up to "abuse". More "real" consumers abuse return policies than resellers by returning items that they have damaged and are unsaleable, that constitutes a provable/tangible loss, not some speculation about hiring additional staff.
posted on September 5, 2001 07:59:24 PM new
saweemosman
I never called you a theif I just said I think what you are doing is really sleazzy
it costs us all...
A honarable vendor takes their lumps learns from their mistakes and moves on
the actions you are contemplating will results in higher costs to us all no matter how its rationalized
I havent seen you address my question as to how you would react to the request for a refund becouse the buyer of one of the refurb computers couldn't make a profit on a item you had sold ??
spock here......
posted on September 5, 2001 08:37:36 PM new
The point is that if one has principle, then one does not get oneself in a box with an exposure of $1500. And if you had really research prices and confident of what you are doing, why bother with this thread? Point is, you were unsure of what was going to happen and looking for others to give you a shoulder to lean on. Clearly, you must have felt some moral guilt. If not, why this whole thread?
I guess it would be fitting if the eventual winners of your auctions do not come thru and the store's return period expired. Maybe the winning bidders found a better deal after the auction has ended and decide not to complete transaction. If this happens, they of course, are not stealing from you.
posted on September 5, 2001 08:38:35 PM new
Thank you bemused. I couldn't have said this as eloquently, that is for sure.
I really do have to capitalize upon this point, why would I be going back if It didn't work out. It has worked, at this point all have bids, and all of you who are "pining" for Joe and Jenny, the teenagers handling the restock between flirting with other employees and standing around chewing gum, swearing, and talking on the phone, you don't have to worry anymore, I don't want to continue with this. I actually start grad school in 2 weeks and this whole thing started as an innocent attempt to upgrade my computer--then gymboree girl turned computer salewoman (yes, that may be an understatement)It was all too risky anyway.
Anyway, the point about mint boxed returns is probably the best. I have not opened or touched the equipment. How many times can you say that for the people in Walmart lines. Please. At the very least, even the honest ones have opened the package. Lets not even get into the dishonest ones. Shame on them. I would never play that game. Worn shoes, used appliances, dirty stinky things, etc, etc.
anyway, I wouldn't be stupid to "try again" if it didn't work out.
As for me Mr. Spocks question, that is like comparing apples and oranges. I am obviously not a retailer--and I state that the computers are warrantied, but not by me, by the maker.
[ edited by saweemosman on Sep 5, 2001 08:40 PM ]
posted on September 5, 2001 08:42:17 PM newWe all hear "it costs a store so much to refund, return etc" I really don't buy into this
Never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to rationalize their situation. It's "okay" because they are a big chain. It's "okay" because there are plenty of them out there. It's "okay" because you WANT it to be okay to do it.
posted on September 5, 2001 08:43:17 PM new
Commentary,
I think you're the one who has tripped over a few computers lately. At least you it seems this way since you seem to be unable to conceive a careful rendering of my posts. DUH!
Did you or did you not read my title and first post. I was never arrogant nor did I deny that I was feeling guilty. In fact, I stated all of the above very clearly. I said I was feeling guilty, I was scared the items wouldn't sell. I was never over-confidant. I think you need to re-read before you accuse.
That was exactly my whole point of posting--guilt. You totally missed the point.
I did not post to justify my doings. even in my very recent posts I have said I will not be doing this again.
Eventer:
My point was to look for objective opinions, and this is what I have received. Can't anyone have sincere intentions anymore? Or you can reread my posts and perhaps you will have better luck this time discerning my point; it was clearly posted, you don't need cliff notes or any of the like, it wasn't written esoterically--sorry if you are a bit slow in "getting things." After a second or third reading, you should get it. It was all right there.
And about rationalizing, I am not rationalizing, as I've said that was my last gig doing all this. I just stated reality, and that is that the re-stocking amounts to nothing. These aren't open-boxes, parts fumbled with, torn packaging products. What DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS. Can't you read? I said I wouldn't be doing it again, kind of renders your "you want to do it invalid"-- had I said I would be continuing I could understand your point.
[ edited by saweemosman on Sep 5, 2001 08:44 PM ]
[ edited by saweemosman on Sep 5, 2001 08:47 PM ]
[ edited by saweemosman on Sep 5, 2001 08:49 PM ]
[ edited by saweemosman on Sep 5, 2001 08:52 PM ]
posted on September 5, 2001 08:56:14 PM new
You asked for opinions and that was given. You posted a response to the opinions and thus a response came back. Nothing more.
Nothing personal in all this, just opinions.
Since it seems your problems are solve, probably you should ask moderator to lock post. Nothing more productive can come from this.
[ edited by commentary on Sep 5, 2001 08:58 PM ]
