posted on September 7, 2001 09:35:46 PM
I am having great difficulty understanding some of the comments posted here. It would seem to me that there are many sellers who will never be succesful if they were to attempt to actually run a business.
If someone were to attempt to pay for an item with a form of payment that I do not or cannot accept, it is a very simple matter to contact the buyer by email and advise them that I will be returning their payment to them and ask if they would please remit payment in a manner that I can accept.
The cost of returning the payment is a business expense that I would absorb. It's part of the cost of doing business. It helps to build goodwill and repeat customers which are definitely an asset to any business.
If your profit margins are so small that you cannot afford the cost of a postage stamp to return a payment to a buyer than I would suggest that you rethink your business plan. If you don't have a business plan I would strongly suggest that you develop one. Given the current economic climate, a poorly conceived business plan is likely to force you out of business. Buying something cheap and listing it for sale on eBay hoping to get more for it than you paid for is not a business plan!
Think people! The global economy is on the verge of a recession and many of you seem to want to alienate your customers.
posted on September 7, 2001 09:43:36 PM
Never ceases to amaze me how SOME buyer's and seller's can turn an elementary transaction into a topic for discussion.
posted on September 7, 2001 11:00:34 PM
Anyone who has worked in retail or customer service knows that the old saying "The customer is always right" is an erroneous belief.
posted on September 7, 2001 11:58:34 PMWhat does THAT have to do with tea in China????????????
I had no idea we were discussing tea. However I am an avid drinker and am always
looking for new flavors.
Sellers are supposedly "business" people. Let them act as such, and show some class....
No, sellers are just that... SELLERS. They are on ebay to sell. The lack of class comes in when a buyer tries to force a form of payment on you that you do not accept.
I don't take, glass beads, checks, or travelers checks in my stores. That is clearly posted in my stores. The person that lacks class is the one that thinks they are special and should be able to pay in any manner that they wish, regardless of my stores' policies.
The buyer with class would stop payment on the money order and pay the seller by one of the methods stated in the auction.
Bottom line: THIS SELLER HAS THE MONEY...This BIDDER DOES NOT HAVE NOR WILL SHE EVER GET HER MERCHANDISE, based on seller's attitude
Bottom line: THIS BUYER HAS NOT PAID THIS SELLER. THIS BUYER HAS NOT NOR SHOULD SHE EVER GET HER MERCHANDISE, based on buyer's attitude.
Seller is a CROOK!.....
How? The seller is the one out of her time and listing fees. The buyer can get refunded on the money order.
Buyer is yet another non-paying bidder and should be treated as such. There is an opyion on the bidder alert form that says something like "bidder did not follow terms of the auction.". It was put there for situations like these.
posted on September 8, 2001 12:12:32 AM
SHOP4SHOES said,
"No, sellers are just that... SELLERS. They are on ebay to sell. The lack of class comes in when a buyer tries to force a form of payment on you that you do not accept. "
======
The buyer did not try to "force" the seller to accept anything. She mistakenly sent a money order, which she then offered to replace with an appropriate form of payment and asked the seller to return the MO at the buyer's expense. What else can you ask for?
The seller refused to return it, then after several more emails had elapsed, announced that she/he couldn't return it because it had been destroyed. So now the buyer is out the money and it'll cost $12 bucks plus a lot of time to get the payment refunded.
The buyer has admitted about a dozen times that she made a mistake. She tried to rectify it and was refused by the seller. IMO that's lousy customer service and deserves a negative feedback. If this constitutes good selling on eBay, then I guess I'm a miserable failure.
This buyer is NOT a deadbeat, just a poor soul who made a mistake and is now being made to pay for it with a thorough bashing by the seller AND by lots of folks here.
posted on September 8, 2001 12:23:42 AM
Honest to pete.
I am quite sure that when I go into Nordstroms I don't offer beads.
However inconvenient, if I showed up with a money order in hand I am sure they would take it.
This is person-to-person trading, not person -to-ego trading.
I am LMAO at some of the umbrage taken over this.
This is a mountain out of molehill, the bidder here sounds extremely cooperative, the seller sounds like a classic knuckle dragger.
posted on September 8, 2001 12:48:41 AM
What is the difference between cash and money order? I will never understand that because I am sure that the seller goes to the bank or even to the grocery store and then can cash this money order. This is very bizarre to me. I sit here and read this thread and think did I take my Zoloft today. Well, I guess each to his own but I would never send cash and also you mention $9.00 shipping. Yks, isn't that quite a sum? How big was the book? How were they going to mail it media mail? I think it is time us sellers must think how we would like ebay to perform. Today they announced ebay stock dropped 4%. It doesn't sound significant but 4% can be devistating. Well, not to me because I don't have that much money but to ebay it could be in the millions. We as sellers need to bend a little so that we can bring the buyers in. Remember "The customer is always right" (unless you sell on ebay)
My opinion only....
posted on September 8, 2001 01:19:19 AM
SeptemberMom,
A 4% drop is even more devastating if your a stock holder...
You raise a good point though. If anyone wishes to sell on eBay, or anywhere else, they generally need to be a little flexible. Nothing worse than scaring away customers.
I am also at a loss to explain why someone wouldn't accept a money order, they must have some kind of bank account or equivalent if they are accepting online payments through any of the services that exist. Many people are reluctant to send cash in the mail because it is virtually untraceable if the seller does not follow through on his/her end of the transaction and send the item purchased. Others are reluctant to use online payments because of security concerns. A money order would seem to be an ideal way to pay for many purchases on eBay. It's a negotiable instrument that is quite easily cashed and traceable at the same time...
What makes even less sense is to destroy a readily negotiable instrument such as a money order. I must admit this entire situation seems very strange indeed. If it were me, I would just write the purchase price of the book off to experience and leave the appropriate feedback. At this point I would be very reluctant to send cash as I would not be convinced that I would ever receive the item I purchased...
posted on September 8, 2001 01:48:44 AM
Where is the seller located at? If they live in a rural area it could be understandable for them not wanting to accept a money order. Money orders may be negotiable but they also need to be cashed somewhere first. Maybe they bank online also?
In this situation, I probably would have sent a credit card payment through paypal (just in case!) and asked the seller to return my money order when they send the item.
posted on September 8, 2001 05:45:50 AM
Shop4shoes:
First, if the seller sent me the wrong item, according to you, I then can contact the seller and demand the correct item and NOT return the wrong item until I received the correct one? And then only after the seller has sent me a box, to hold the original item, with the correct postage on it and if they don't do that I'm contacting eBay. Come on.
Secondly, you are missing the point entirely here, the object of an auction is to get as MANY bids as possible on your item(s). By alienating me, and most probably other customers he's dealt with, this seller has lost out on potential bids. Again, bids, I may not win the item but I'm driving the price up which makes the seller happy. But, I won't be doing that because this seller doesn't know anything about customer service.
Bottom line: If you are a seller and your not getting a lot of bids on your item(s) or you're only getting single bids, one reason may be because of no thought towards the customer (lack of knowledge of customer service). Go through your auctions, are the instruction too long, too complicated, too demanding? Try loosening them up a bit. Repeat customers are the best, they are reliable and a pleasure to work with, why not make first-time bidders repeat customers? Cut'em some slack, if they make a mistake don't go threaten to go to the "authorities" and demand your money or else. If you can take the payment, maybe cost you a buck, well that's part of doing business. If you can't them tell them and EXPLAIN why, it may cost you a bit of time (minutes) but the result could be a long-term customer driving up bids.
Recently, I've posted something about sellers on eBay accepting only Paypal,IPMO or cash only (Paypal in particular because of its ease while transacting).Because I live in a country not covered by Paypal (Philippines), I usually send a bank draft as a form of payment.
Everytime I see an item that I really like which is being auctioned by someone who only accepts Paypal or cash, I feel that I'm left out. It's like that item would go to the hands of other bidders without me doing anything about it.
The post I sent was answered by Damon, but these answers seemed vague (lots of excuses that). I just hope that you guys can help me with my dilemma.
posted on September 8, 2001 08:23:39 AMNext thing the seller says they can't accept the money order. I say "OK" and nothing happens, no procedures, no nothing back from the seller.
Then the buyer says a week goes by. I think this is where the deal really went wrong. Once the seller said he would not accept a MO the buyer should have answered with more than a simple "OK".
If this is such an unbending seller he may be on a power trip and likes to have total control over his business.
In a case like this the buyer should have responded immediately, apologized for their mistake, begged forgiveness, offered immediate payment by other means, begged for the return of the MO when the package was sent and sucked up big time.
Then the seller would feel even more powerful and he would feel even more in control of his business. This is his view of "customer service". Maybe the customer didn't grovel enough for him.
posted on September 8, 2001 08:54:25 AMOH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!
This has got to be the silliest thread on the board.
I just don't understand the mentallity of some SELLERS.
What is it? Is their stuff so WONDERFUL they can afford to be arrogant?
How do people stay in the selling business with attitudes such as this seller?
So.....She made a mistake, its bad enough the seller has crucified her. Do you really think she needs addition abuse from the people on this board?
God forbid...none of you have ever made a mistake.
I made one last week.....I had a customer pay me with an electronic payment. I missed it. When I sent a second notice she informed me she had paid. YIKES! I MADE A MISTAKE and missed seeing it.
I gave her my profuse appologies and included her postage back when I shipped.
Customer service is MY #1 PRIORITY. As it should be with anyone who sells and wants to be successful.
posted on September 8, 2001 10:56:43 AM
tcinorm2000:
Sorry I refered to you as she. I don't know why I did that.
First, if the seller sent me the wrong item, according to you, I then can contact the seller and demand the correct item and NOT return the wrong item until I received the correct one? And then only after the seller has sent me a box, to hold the original item, with the correct postage on it and if they don't do that I'm contacting eBay. Come on.
I never said anything close to that. If you are reading between the lines, there must be a lot of space between them.
[i]Secondly, you are missing the point entirely here, the object of an auction is to get as MANY bids as possible on your item(s). By alienating me, and most probably other customers he's dealt with, this seller has lost out on potential bids. Again, bids, I may not win the item but I'm driving the price up which makes the seller happy. But, I won't be doing that because this seller doesn't know anything about customer
service[/i]
I am not missing the point. I won't speak for others, but the object of my auction is to get the price that I want. If only one person bids, I don't care, since I start my auctions at the price I am willing to take. He may not be alienatiog anyone but you. If I am not mistaken you said he had very good feedback. To be fair sometimes that means nothing since some people are afarid to leave negatives.
[i]If you can take the payment, maybe cost you a buck, well that's part of doing business. If you can't them tell them and EXPLAIN why, it may cost you a bit of time (minutes) but the result could be a long-term customer driving up bids.
[/i]
Everyone loves to talk about the "cost of doing business" anytime a seller refuses to do anything that may cost them money.
That is how peple try to justify many of their complaints. Many sellers have cost projections, based on their business practices. I don't take checks, so bounced check fees are not in my projections. Why should this guy have to take a money order and maybe pay fees and chalk it up to the cost of doing business. He doesen't.
SeptemberMom:
What is the difference between cash and money order? I will never understand that because I am sure that the seller goes to the bank or even to the grocery store and then can cash this money order.
Where I live there is not one grocery store or check cashing place that will cash money orders. The only option is to deposit the item in the bank or cash it at the post office. If it isn't a postal money order the post office will not cash it unless you use 50% of the value on postage.
Even worse, not one store that issues Western Union money orders will cash them. One of my former employees was an abused wife trying to get back on her feet. Her sister sent her a Western Union money order and she was unable to cash it. She did not have a bank account yet. Every bank she went to said that they would put a hold on the funds if she used it to open the account.
Money orders are not treated as cash in most places, where I live (Florida). They are treated like out of town checks.
posted on September 8, 2001 11:12:36 AM
I would be MORE than happy if someone would send a money order to me by mistake!
Jeepers.
As packer said, WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES.
I, as others, have dealt with some pretty stupid people via ebay. We always work it out.(no negs.....yet) Be it my fault or theirs, it gets resolved. Of course there are rules, and to those rules you make exceptions, period.
It's a lot easier to bend a little and smile than keep shoving your chest out with a frown all the time.
posted on September 8, 2001 12:59:41 PMEveryone loves to talk about the "cost of doing business" anytime a seller refuses to do anything that may cost them money.
That is how peple try to justify many of their complaints. Many sellers have cost projections, based on their business practices. I don't take checks, so bounced check fees are not in my projections. Why should this guy have to take a money order and maybe pay fees and chalk it up to the cost of doing business. He doesen't.
Somewhere in those cost projections should be an estimate of incidental expenses. Nowhere in the above discussion has anyone said that the seller was being forced to accept the money order. In fact the buyer offered to send cash and requested that the money order be returned. The seller refused to do that and claims to have destroyed it. The cost of a postage stamp to return a money order is not an excessive charge for the seller to have to absorb. If I'm not mistaken, the buyer even offered to pay for the additional postage for the return of the money order. In uncertain economic times keeping the customer happy and sometimes spending an extra dollar or two can do a lot to promote future sales...
If the seller doesn't wish to build a customer base and risk building up negative feedback which may discourage future bidders then they should expect to be forced out of business as the economy weakens. In tough times, buyers will return to buy from sellers where they have built up a relationship of trust. Buyers may even be unwilling to buy from people they haven't dealt with before if they continue to have bad experiences from some individuals.
The "cost of doing business" is associated with incidental expenses which arise because of mistakes either by the buyer or the seller. These small expenses build "goodwill" which is an important asset to any business which is entering a period in which prices may fall as more and more consumers begin to search for bargains because they feel uncertain about the economy. If you choose not to build goodwill by allowing for such expenses you do so at your own peril. I suspect that the coming months may be difficult for many sellers, both those with sound business plans and those without. Those who are able to survive in difficult times because of customer loyalty and goodwill are likely to benefit in the future as the number of sellers is slowly reduced due to their own mismanagment and poor business practices.
I sincerely doubt that the days of quick easy money on eBay will be around in the future, the novelty of the concept as worn off, buyers are becoming more aware of scams and fraud schemes and are likely to be much wiser in the future. They will be unwilling to purchase from sellers who make the business transaction more difficult than it needs to be. Those who wish to continue selling on eBay and try to generate a steady income from it are bound to find that it will become more and more work for less and less money until the economy improves significantly.
How come my italic thingy didn't work?
Trying bold instead...
Thanks, revvassago!
[ edited by ptimko on Sep 8, 2001 01:03 PM ]
[ edited by ptimko on Sep 8, 2001 01:04 PM ]
[ edited by ptimko on Sep 8, 2001 01:05 PM ]
[ edited by ptimko on Sep 8, 2001 01:11 PM ]
[ edited by ptimko on Sep 8, 2001 01:13 PM ]
posted on September 8, 2001 05:40:31 PM
tcinorm2000:
It seems very unreasonable of you to send
someone a payment type that they do not take
(according to their TOS). Then on top of
that, you expect them to return it at their
expense!?! Please, next time, look elsewhere
for the item, instead of making you problem
the sellers. Good luck!
Z
---
"Cannot say. Saying, I would know. Do not
know, so cannot say". -- Zathras (Babylon 5)
posted on September 8, 2001 06:11:37 PM
Zathras11...Is it unreasonable to assume that you yourself have never made a MISTAKE? Hello! The fellow made a simple mistake. I made one myself today and paid a seller with HORRORS Paypal and the seller didn't take Paypal. It was a MISTAKE!!! I was paying for several auctions and accidentally paid one that didn't accept Paypal. It's turned into rather a large mess, but as we're not talking a huge amount of money here, I'll pay twice if I have to. Would I rather have my Paypal payment returned? Yes, of course. But it was my mistake and if I don't get that money back then I'll accept that.
I actually had a bidder pay me twice this week. She sent Paypal and then sent a check. I had already sent the item when her check arrived. Scared me to death as at first I thought I had sent the item to the wrong person. She never even realized she had paid me twice. Did I throw a fit? Did I keep both? No, I e-mailed her and asked her if she wanted me to send it back. She does and I am (at the huge expense of an envelope and $.34). I think I can handle it.
Life on eBay/the Internet is fast paced and can be confusing. Usually, we are not just bidding on one item at a time. We may have many purchases, just as a seller may have many auctions going on. Mistakes will be made. Let's all try to work it out with as much understanding as possible, ok? Don't automatically assume fraud and don't pitch a hissy over an envelope and a quarter + two nickles.
posted on September 8, 2001 06:27:39 PM
Hey, we ALL make mistakes. Every single last one of us. It's only human.
BUT >>>>>>>> as a buyer, if I was to send someone a payment they don't accept, I would make sure I did not make it the OTHER person's problem. If I make a mistake, I fix it.
Sounds to me like people need to take care of their mistakes themselves, not have others try to deal with their mistakes for them.
posted on September 8, 2001 09:59:42 PM
I cannot believe anyone is applauding this person for not reading the seller's terms -
Sorry, but I don't see the applauding. (hear it either)
I know people don't post so everyone can be on his/her side. (Sure, that would be great) BUT, as a seller like most of you and a buyer as well, I expect (foolishly) to be treated as I treat customers. I get the usual excuses - sick kids, death, loss of job, 2 months for payments, half a check, half cash or pay pal, all of these I state I do not accept. But I end up taking them. Some of you do too.
HOW MUCH DO I WANT TO SELL MY ITEM ??? A lot, that is why I am on Ebay. Money is money. It isn't worth the negs. the relisting and aggravation of pissing off someone.
For the person who mentioned customer service- That is one of the most important things that sellers need to learn, use or constantly update himself or herself on. Mr. Joe Seller has the same item. I love giving good cust. service and getting it.
For that seller that held MO hostage and pretended to rip it up- that is nuts. This guy is just a jerk. He couldn't send the M.O. back and spend the .34 to make a deal. I WOULD HAVE. I guess to him, one customer is no biggie. Lucky him to be doing so well.
This has nothing to do with magic bean theory! (UFO's only visit crazy people in the mid-west, never seen one in downtown Boston) This was simply a misunderstanding. A money order is cash, said my bank, and the post office. It may be cashed at many places, even some supermarkets. I cannot believe this guy was going to be inconvenienced. Even if buyer did not read the TOS, the seller was unjustly rude to her.
I learned recently first hand that EBAY only protects the big guys, I am sorry that you are S.O.L.
posted on September 8, 2001 10:36:33 PM
If you have your money order receipt report this to your bank and ask if they could refund the amount of the money order if it is not cashed in 90 days, or whatever their requirement. Typically, you have to turn in the destroyed money order to get a refund.
Check with the bank to see if the MO was cashed, we have no idea if this guy is telling the truth.
I have read threads where seller will not ship the item because a .50 or $1.00 mistake was made. I had difficulty with those sellers. However, .34 cents is beyond my comprehension. Does this guy wash out his coffee filters to use them a second time? Yikes!
Ask him if her would send you the destroyed money order if you send a SASE. If he does not comply report him to the postmaster. If someone does not return payment and does not send the item it is mail fraud. Report him to safeharbor too. I realize that safeharbor is a waste of time, but hope springs eternal...
posted on September 8, 2001 10:59:39 PM
If you still have the receipt,call the 800# and ask if the money order was cashed. Inform the person that you are going to do that. If they cashed the money order, and did not destroy it like they said they did, (ask the mo company or person on the phone to send you a copy of the signature on the money order for proof) then write to them again, and tell them you are going after them for fraud. Then insist that they paypal you the money NOW, to avoid any further problems, and CC all of the emails and proof of signature on the MO, (if there is one) to Safe Harbor. Top it off with a neg! And next time, read the whole tos!
posted on September 9, 2001 01:58:06 PM
Go ahead, go after the seller for fraud. I suppose the civil lawsuit he will inflict upon you will more than pay for all the insults that have been said about him. Rememeber, he has to cash the money order and not send the item for it to be fraud you idiots. He was sent a form of payment he did not ask for or accept, he can wipe his butt with it if he wants. He is under no obligation to send it back at his expense.
If has been a tremendous disservice to the unknown seller to have called him a maroon and a crook, among other things. The is a South Pacific Island where the money is made of stone, some weighing several hundred pounds. I think I'll make a "mistake" to one of you and make my payment in that. Then sit and watch you go bankrupt trying to ship them back at your expense....
posted on September 9, 2001 05:03:16 PM
If the seller cashes the money order or destroys it, the buyer is still out the money for the purchase and the shipping. It costs $25.00 to stop a money order, so it this case it wouldn't be worth it. The bank will not refund the amount of the money order just on the buyer's word.
Most likely the postmaster will send the seller a note saying that he has an unresolved mail order purchase reported and the USPS suggests that the seller resolve the situation. Sellers can not do whatever they please; we are all operating under federal and state laws. If this seller did not return the payment, he still may be responsible even if he doesn't cash it. The money order represented money and was destroyed.
Perhaps that is what is wrong with our society, Mark. No one seems to have common courtesy anymore. Here you call people that you don't know names on this thread, which isn't very nice. The right and polite thing to do, would have been for the seller to send the money order back stating that the seller accepts Pay Pal only and the item would be shipped immediately upon receipt of Pay Pal payment. There is sometimes a cost to doing business: mailing, long distance telephone calls, gas and many other extras. I agree that many sellers would fail if they were operating any other type of business. Perhaps they could be more successful in their E-Bay business if they treated customers the way they would like to be treated.
