posted on December 7, 2000 07:14:13 PM
A woman's "choice" is whether or not to become pregnant. Once she is carrying a living being, she does not have a right to "chose" whether or not to commit murder. Murder is murder. Picture a man standing on a bridge ready to jump - chances are someone has called the police and everyone is standing around urging him not to jump. If the police do talk him down, then they will probably haul him off to some mental hospital. He's attempting to take his OWN life - yet a woman carrying a baby can choose to kill it without any interference.
posted on December 7, 2000 07:19:38 PM
From an eternal perspective I think a lot of people believe in life after death..heaven..etc.
I know I was brought up that when a child died young, the Mom would somehow be able to raise that 'child' in the afterlife.
So to follow that thread of thinking I wonder how many murdered babies will great
their 'mom's who killed them' and ask them why?(when the Mom's die).
And then the blood of these precious babies is also on the hands of the doctors who made the murder possible and helped it along.
Jesus said not to harm His 'little ones'...
posted on December 7, 2000 07:29:03 PM
Sorry Oddish. I went off to watch a video movie I rented and just now got back. Beth answered very well, and I cant do much better than what she said. Rights of the father versus rights of the mother versus rights of the unborn child...so many things to take into consideration and no perfect answer for any of those questions.
Myself, I did what I did and after further thought of my reasons, discussing it on a bulletin board wont make it go away, or validate it, or make it better or worse. Its done and it was long ago. I will not be hipocritical and say I wouldnt do it again, because I would because At THAT time, and at THAT place, it was the correct thing to do.
posted on December 7, 2000 07:30:43 PMI know I was brought up that when a child died young, the Mom would somehow be able to raise that 'child' in the afterlife. So to follow that thread of thinking I wonder how many murdered babies will great their 'mom's who killed them' and ask them why?(when the Mom's die).
Although this may be a guiding principle in your own ideas about abortion, I'm sure you realize that this concept of a literal, heavenly "reassembly" of families (and the corollary issue of, in the case of remarried widows, which spouse reunites with whom), whose members then grill each other about their earthly actions, is foreign to the belief systems of the overwhelming majority of Americans, whether theist or atheist, and whatever their opinion on abortion.
posted on December 7, 2000 07:32:24 PMBobbi355, "Once she is carrying a living being, she does not have a right to "chose" whether or not to commit murder."
Yes...she certainly does have that "right," in this country. You may not agree with that, and that is your "right." You may choose to work within the legal and legislative process in our country to alter that "right" in the future.
And I may choose, because it is my "right" to do so, to work within the legal and legislative process in our country to absolutely require that all women "must" be legally required to restrict their child bearing to only two children, or only female children, and that any pregnancies determined to be beyond those restrictions be medically terminated.
But at least today, you cannot impose your views on me, nor can I impose mine on you. And that is the wonderful thing about the right of "choice". Faced with such a situation, each of us may legally exercise our differing moral convictions and beliefs, but neither of us may force another to conform to our beliefs.
posted on December 7, 2000 07:34:46 PM
Turtle:
How can killing an unborn baby be 'good' for the child?
And YES I'd stand in line to take ANY child if it would save them from death.
It wasn't the baby's mistake..or fault..at being conceived..but the baby looses for life.
And as a Grandmother I have held my breath when my son got his girlfriend pregnant and she weighed whether to have an abortion or not. I felt sooo helpless that I had no say about the murder of my grandchild. (Fortunately she kept the baby...and after he was born they got married).
I understand your delimma Turtle..and I'm glad you have thought it out and it is causing you pain(at least you aren't matter of fact about it)..but the ONLY reason you give is pure selfishness.
I'll give you my phone number if you'd like to get rid of a baby. That offer goes out to ANYONE who reads this.
Selfishness..not being able to give it to someone who would love it and who can't have children...because it would be better for you to kill it.
Now that is a true friend. Doesn't even laugh when I left myself wide open for much snickering
For heavens sake I give up. I try for the better part of an afternoon to say something in a way that will make sense and you say it perfectly first try...exactly what I was trying to say...It's a very good thing you understand me and can interpret LOL
brighid868
I like the way you talk..you make sense to me. I may not agree but you make sense. That explanation along with Hellcats and rawbunzels gives me a better understanding of where people are coming from. Thanks for your answers
Young woman is pregnant and DOES NOT want the child. Does NOT want to carry the child. How she got pregnant, why she got pregnant, reasons she is pregnant dont matter in this scenario. She has no out, no recourse but to carry it. So she does what she always did. Drinks, smokes, parties. She has the child. She leaves it alone, half-assed feeds it. Barely takes care of it. No love, no tenderness. Just hate, because she was made to carry what she didnt want. Not the childs fault, but the child gets the brunt of the hate. Beatings, abuse, neglect. Scenario does not call for police or agency to get involved in "saving" the child. We are assuming the worst in this scene. Child is now 12, 15, 18. Baby years are gone. What you see before you is a human being who was not wanted, and was told and shown that on a constant basis. A wreck. But its better to be abused, hated, neglected than to not be at all, isnt it?
Just another way of looking at it. And to say someone is selfish for doing what they think is best for THEMSELVES is selfishness in itself.
edited to add that NO, this is NOT my story. I read in the paper recently about a woman and her father who chained their child to the bed for 9 years.
[ edited by FrannyS on Dec 7, 2000 07:50 PM ]
posted on December 7, 2000 08:13:24 PM
Speaking as someone who did endure beatings, abuse, neglect and hatred yes I would prefer that to not being at all. I also don't buy into the no choice for that child scenerio. I may not be perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I'm a decent person. I perpetuate none of the above on my own children. In fact I am more determined because of my fate that my kids will not have the same experiences. Off topic I know.
Oddish~ The Odd One
posted on December 7, 2000 08:22:54 PM
As it happens, Jesus made no statements regarding the harming of "little ones." He did say, according to St. Mark (10:14), Suffer the little children to come on to me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. I would have to agree that, at least for me, the closest I will come to heaven on earth is within the presence of children.
However, both St. Luke (6:37) and St. Matthew (7:1) report that Jesus was clear in His admonition that we Judge not, that ye be not judged..
Oddish, I am aware that it is impossible to keep an intact dictionary around your house... I just try to stay alert to which sections (letters) the babies have allowed you to have each week. And while I enjoy the opportunities we take to mutually snicker at one another...not on this subject, my friend.
Franny, easy for me to say...consider the source and dismiss it.
posted on December 7, 2000 08:26:05 PM
Oddish, Im glad you turned out to be you. And Im glad you ARE here. You were lucky in the sense that you DID turn out ok. Sometimes it doesnt work out that way for others though. Deep subject and can get deeper the more we all dig. I dont know if Im up to it, to be honest. I see it from a different perspective. Knowing what I know NOW, would have made a huge difference. What I knew THEN, was completely a whole different ballgame.
It is a very deep subject with twists and turns and different viewpoints all around. It's a sad subject too with clearly no winners just sadness abounding. I think my head is starting to hurt from thinking about it so I am gonna head out of this thread.
Before I go ..I said this to a friend earlier this evening but it bears repeating.
I am and always will be against abortion. I will always be on the other side of the street protesting the legality of abortion and doing all legally within my power to stop it from being legal.
But you will never hear a nasty comment from my mouth or rocks thrown at you or turn my back and whisper when I see you on the street or at the grocery store. Just friendship and an ear if you need it. If you are going to claim Christ for your beliefs, which I do, then claim all that he taught. Kindness and love, refraining from judgement were at the top of His list. Since I am not without sins stones are best left on the driveway.
posted on December 7, 2000 08:45:53 PMFranny...you don't even know the half of the wonders of our sprite Oddish! She has seven (count 'em, if you can catch 'em) kiddos! The artwork and literary masterpieces of these little marvels hang on the walls of my office, and I am blessed every day to know that they are a part of my life, if only across a distance! The only "failing" in the Oddish household is that the kids glom onto the dictionary, cut it up into separate letters, and only allow their Mom access to one letter at a time...so sometime she speaks (most eloquently) in "r's", sometimes in "t's", sometimes in "k's"....usually it works out, but I hate it when the only letter they give her is "x".
posted on December 7, 2000 09:14:14 PM
Well, it could be kisses (I like that! ), or it could be because one can only use "xylophone" and "xerophilious" just so many times in the same sentence.
