posted on September 18, 2001 10:03:00 AM new"In this case, those who normally do not contribute to the United Way because United Way does not contribute 100% of the donation to the individual charities can be assured that 100% of what they donate WILL go to the victims of this horrible tragedy."
Thanks for that info, amy. That is one piece of good news!
posted on September 18, 2001 10:07:52 AM new
Triggerfish...that information has been there for all to find...and should have been sought outbefore people started making all kinds of accusations and assumptions about this program. (not saying you were making such posts)
posted on September 18, 2001 10:32:20 AM new
"Per IRS rules, the donor is allowed to claim the retail value of the item...the donor is NOT restricted to his original cost of the item. If you put up an item that cost you $2 and it sells for $100 you get to take a charitable deduction for $100 not $2. Proof of retail value is easy as we have our records of the amount the item brought at auction."
Uh, no.
Sounds like someone needs to consult with her accountant.
Ask the accountant about the terms "fair market value" and "basis", particularly.
Of course, that *would* take time away from insisting most of us are talking out of our arses.
posted on September 18, 2001 10:32:34 AM new
Amy, which department of eBay do you work for?
Have you ever watched a telethon? They have a 1-800 number on there for people to donate. They know (immediately) how much they have in pledges. The giver gets a receipt with their credit card statement.
Why is eBay demanding that people use Billpoint to make cash donations? Why not allow PayPal? Why not have a 1-800 number? Cash? Checks? (hint, there is no good answer, other than they elected to use this tragedy to promote Billpoint. Of course, this will ALSO be at the expense of donations that might have otherwise come in from people that don't care for Billpoint for whatever reason)
Why does eBay bill those charges to sellers and then credit them back? Doesn't that seem like a lot of work for nothing? Why don't they just say "fees waived" when they see the box for AFA checked? Could it be they're trying to artificially boost revenue & (operating) profit through this practice? (if not, what other reason could there possibly be -- certainly the programming to do it the way they've done is more complicated than just waving it when the AFA box is checked).
posted on September 18, 2001 11:03:37 AM new
Doesn't the United Way CEO make well over a million $s and the top execs well into the six-figures? Or is this urban legend?
posted on September 18, 2001 11:13:34 AM new
While the "intent" may have been good, me thinks that the upper crust at eBay must have come up with this bright idea using the Jerry Falwell theory: Shoot off the mouth first, and hope nobody that matters notices!
While it seems that the groundswell of opinion is against this idea, just how does the corporate "leadership" of eBay back down now without coming across as COMPLETE fools?
IMNSHO: Donate DIRECTLY....not thru "just a venue"
posted on September 18, 2001 11:45:44 AM new
Bettylou...I DID talk to an accountant...one who has a bachelors degree in accounting and has worked in the field for over 25 years (my husband)
There is no "exact" retail (fair market) value for items. Fair market value depends on having a willing buyer and a willing seller, an open market (must be offered to the general public), adequate time span to allow the item to sell at the fair market value, and the sale must be an arms length transaction. An auction fulfills these requirements and traditionally auction prices HAVE been considered to be "fair market".
Ebaypowersellergold...I don't work for ebay.
Soliciting funds for charity carries with it many legal responsibilities. A major legality is that those collecting the funds MUST turn ALL funds collected over to the charities in whose name the funds were collected. The person/group doing the soliciting MUST keep accurate records of what has been collected and prove it WAS in fact donated. IF any of the funds did not get turned over to the charities the donors thought they were contributing to the soliciter of the funds can be criminally charged with fraud. This means the soliciting group must keep control of all funds collected.
To allow paypal to collect the funds removes ebay (the soliciting group) from control of those funds...but does not remove them from responsibility for those funds. The drive for contributions is being done by ebay, therefore ebay can't let a third party collect the funds and do the donating.
As to why not cash or checks...processing those types of payments are more labor intensive than the credit card methods. Check donations would require the item be held until the check clears the sender's bank. It would require a lot of man hours to track each check until it clears, keep the records of what seller is involved and when to release the item for shipment. Approval on a credit card donation is almost instantaneous.
If you don't like the program as ebay set it up, fine, just don't participate. But putting such an dark, suspicious spin on this is really unneccessary.
posted on September 18, 2001 12:19:43 PM new
There has been a lot of giving, and 99% of it has been done in the spirit of giving. The hard hats and rain gear passed out to the rescue workers is an example, a selfless act of giving. If that gear had been passed out with "Bob's Constuction Cares" or "Riley's Rain Gear For Liberty" written in large letters on the items it would have been capitalizing on the nation's sorrow. I feel eBay is capitalizing on the nation's sorrow.
Some sellers had payment terms of "Only Checks or Money Orders made out to The American Red Cross will be accepted." I was told those auctions were illegal according to eBay. I'm extremely disappointed in eBay.
posted on September 18, 2001 12:27:19 PM new
[quote]Seems to me that in 100 days there'll be $100M more in the charity coffers than there might have been.
Who cares who donated it? Does it really matter where it came from?
If it makes anybody feel better, the Ebay Foundation has donated the first $1M.
But that's not good enough, is it? [/quote]
Of course it isn't, fountainhouse. It is always easier to whine and mope and look for the darker meanings to any situation than to take any positive action. Amy just outlined a lot of the points that are sticklers for folks and look at the reaction.
I worry 24-hours-a-day about providing for my family, since right now I do internet auctions & sales exclusively of any brick and mortar job. But I had not a single nanosecond of hesitation in joining this program. I've already been able to raise three times as much money as I was originally able to donate.
It's still not much...but it's more than if I was just sitting on my ass whining about who gets the credit.
posted on September 18, 2001 12:48:45 PM new
Has anyone thought of this? Ebay is going to collect the money from these auctions and they are going to hold it until they can give a BIG check and the Kodak moment and Meg can be in the spotlight. Plus they make people sign up for Billpoint, That helps no one but eBay either.
Ok just think of the amount of money eBay is going to make on the float of this money sitting in their accounts erning the intrest that it will. That is going to an awful lot of money and if you think ebay is going to donate ANY of the intrest money you are sadly mistaken. This is just going to be a money making deal for them on the backs of us sellers while we are lucky to make ends meet with these auctions taking away from our own sales.
People are going to bid on the charity auctions because it will give them the warm fuzzing feeling, while thinking that those of us who do not give our inventory away are MEAN. That is a word people love MEAN. If you do not do what "I" think is good then you are MEAN. I will not give anyting to ebay to back a buck of intrest on. I will give in my own way.
posted on September 18, 2001 12:53:38 PM new
AMAZING ignorance being displayed by some here. Try reading the IRS rules as to what constitutes a "charitable deduction," and what DOESN'T. The donation has to be made to a certain type of entity, an entity APPROVED by the IRS, did Billpoint in general or that specific Billpoint account get approved for that??????? Or, the donation has to be made to an entity that is exempted by Congress etc. from that rule. What eBay SAYS holds as much water to me as... well, I'll skip the comparisons. NOW, eBay is dictating Tax Law?
They're going to issue WHAT? Do the people around here who bandy terms like "fair market value" around even KNOW about the term??? If you sell something for charity for $100 that you bought for $1, AND you can document that that $100 is "fair market value" somehow, the $99 extra becomes a CAPITAL GAIN, and has to be claimed as such, AND the donee has to file it as such. Unless you lied about your cost basis, which for over $499 YOU NEED DOCUMENTATION. BY IRS LAWS. AND, eBay spokespeople, since sellers' contributions (presumably) are GOODS, not cash, since the cash is going DIRECTLY from the buyer to Billpoint, what about the IRS rule that GOODS in aggregate or individually that are used for a $5000 or more deduction MUST HAVE A WRITTEN APPRAISAL BY A LICENSED APPRAISER accompanying it???? I have some news for people, eBay is neither the Government nor any part of it. Some people have spouted stuff about "read what ebay says." WELL, maybe they should read the TAX LAWS, and ask that IF eBay somehow has found a way to circumvent the normal laws for Charitable Deductions, maybe they have a RESPOSIBILITY to EXPLAIN it to the true donees, and not just stick one-line assertions or disclaimers on page 6000 of some help text to be repeated here by people who have possibly abdicated their responsibility of applying critical thinking.
And all that's even IF someone wants to attribute noble motives to this program.
And for the people who insist on spouting the eBay line who are posting stuff here that eBay said THIS or eBay said THAT, would anyone like me to post the applicable tax laws??????? THEN, they can explain to me how this program is any different. WHICH, if it is, I have been saying since LINE 1 of everything I posted is what eBay NEEDS TO EXPLAIN, or let the generosity of eBay members take care of itself, which it will.
posted on September 18, 2001 12:55:48 PM new
Turning in ALL funds collected for a charity is not the law.
It varies state by state but no state mandates 100% of funds collected be turned over to the charity.
There of hundreds of solicitors that collect money and are allowed to deduct actual expenses.
Some ststes require solicitors to state up front what the percentage is, some don't.
Some states allow expenses to be deducted not higher than a certain percentage.
However, no state permits fraud.
Also, don't take tax advice from someone's spouse on this board. Giving goods to charity is different than giving cash, as is giving your time/expertise. It is not clear that you are donating goods to the charity auctions, as no one else is actually taking possesion of the goods but the donor seller and buyer. It appears a cash donation is being made. So if your item sells for less than market value, you may not be able to deduct the "market value", only the cash generated from the sale price is deductable. It would be yet a different situation if you first donated the item to the charity and they sold it.
posted on September 18, 2001 01:07:09 PM new
WHOA, Reamond, did someone here say that donating ALL blahblah is the law??? Uhoh, I'm not EVEN going to scroll through the posts to see who, I suspect I know... I wonder where they got that tidbit of COMPLETELY FALSE information. And I totally second the sentiments of the people expressing their disdain at giving a CENT to the United Way to disburse. The United Way has been in the past an organization that is documentably sometimes (maybe even often) PITIFULLY ineffective in their use of contributions, and one that has been rocked with scandal about where the money gleaned from their glitzy NFL endorsements etc. goes, and how much of it goes there.
posted on September 18, 2001 01:08:25 PM new"Who cares who donated it? Does it really matter where it came from?"
Yes, it does to me.
I would guess that almost every person who has POSTED on this thread, and almost every person who has READ this thread has already donated either goods, cash, blood, or something else to help ease the suffering in NYC and Washington, D.C. right now. This is IN ADDITION TO any personal financial, physical or emotional burdens they might have endured because of this tragedy, such as loss of income or loss of a friend or family member.....and all given SELFLESSLY, ANONYMOUSLY, without one tiny shred of recognition or praise.
But just look REALISTICALLY at what eBay has given to the cause---$1,000,000 and some server space. That is a PITTANCE for them.
JUST LOOK WHAT THEY'VE ALREADY GAINED FROM "THEIR" GENEROSITY:
They have now had, FREE OF ANY ADVERTISING EXPENDITURE ON THEIR PART, a televised press conference with the two key NY leaders singing their praises....
AND
The President of the United States on live network television urging all Americans to go to eBay and buy, sell, donate, and use Billpoint....
AND
Local media all over the country (and probably the world before it's over) passing on the President's message to every person in the country.
How touching for eBay.
What do you think it would cost a company should they be able to PURCHASE that kind of publicity?????????????????
Where are eBay's MATCHING FUNDS?
Where are eBay's DONATIONS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM THEIR OWN BANK ACCOUNTS?
Where are ALL LISTING & FVFs FOR THE ENTIRE AUCTION going to the victims? Why not let EBAY'S income for the next 100 days be donated to the fund, and make the seller's contribution OPTIONAL in line with what he can personally afford, and allow the buyer to contribute an additional amount on each purchase, as he sees fit??? Why put this ALL on the backs of the SELLERS???
This is nothing but a SHAMELESS PUBLICITY STUNT by a corrupted company devoid of the slightest drop of integrity, which is preying upon the kindness of its customers, and it deeply saddens me that the public will probably never know the truth behind it.
Also....Amy, you might want to keep the husband, but I'd DEFINITELY get a new accountant.
[ edited by granee on Sep 18, 2001 02:32 PM ]
posted on September 18, 2001 01:21:05 PM new
<<<If it makes anybody feel better, the Ebay Foundation has donated the first $1M.>>>
Actually NO it doesn't make me feel better because who really is going to donate the items and shipping costs to raise the other $99M It will be the sellers.
Also Lets see Ebay donates the first $1M, for this $1M they will get maximum Exposure, Marketing, Advertising & Publicity plus the major tax write off for the $1M and the write off for all the fee's for this program and they get to pump up their statistics (After a very slow summer). HMMMMM Knowing how much advertising and marketing & publicity really cost as well as all the other advantages sounds like they got a deal.
Personally if you think ebay set up Auctions for America out of the goodness of their hearts (And not expecting anything in return) you are terribly Naive. This is nothing more that a major marketing ploy by ebay and I believe that is what most people in this thread are upset about that ebay could use this tragedy as a marketing ploy.
posted on September 18, 2001 01:25:14 PM new
I'd also be willing to bet that eBay is making interest on that money while it sits there...Wonder if those funds will also be donated. I sure do hope so.
Meanwhile, your best bet is to continue donating privately leaving out the middle men!
posted on September 18, 2001 01:32:39 PM new
Posted on the Auctions for America discussion board on eBay:
Live chat today at 17:00ptd - 18:00 ptd, your chance to talk live to eBay reps about the program.
posted on September 18, 2001 01:57:37 PM new
God forbid that EBAY use it's marketing muscle to try and raise money for a good cause.
We'll be listing our items that have not sold well recently. It allows us to clean up our inventory without having to pay listing fees and the money goes to a good cause and we get a tax receipt as well.
Yes, we donated cash but this allows us to generate extra cash for the charity by disposing of extraneous product. The focused marketing effort by EBAY will likely bring a higher value for these items than if we simply sold it on the regular site.
It's sad to see so many people attacking EBAY for something that really is good.
posted on September 18, 2001 02:42:26 PM new
<<<God forbid that EBAY use it's marketing muscle to try and raise money for a good cause.>>>>
HMMMM Amazon and other companies are raising money for the cause without the fanfare that ebay seems to want.
<<<We'll be listing our items that have not sold well recently. It allows us to clean up our inventory without having to pay listing fees and the money goes to a good cause and we get a tax receipt as well.>>>>>
Yes, that's true we don't have to pay listing fees but we do have to pay the shipping.
Lets see what if I donate the inventory I don't want to charity like a battered women's shelter, Homeless Children, The council for the blind (These charities are still out there and still need help as well)
Then I can add up what it would have cost me for shipping fee's for these items and instead of giving it to the Postal Service I write a check for the shipping amount to the fireman's fund or another charity that goes to help the victims in NY. I get a tax receipt and not only help one charity but 2 of them.
<<<Yes, we donated cash but this allows us to generate extra cash for the charity by disposing of extraneous product. The focused marketing effort by EBAY will likely bring a higher value for these items than if we simply sold it on the regular site.>>>>
Yes, I believe your right but I also feel that this will hamper the regular auctions and take bidding away from sellers that rely on their sales to support themselves. Its wonderful and great to help charity but not if its going to put people out of business and create hardships that could have been avoided if there would have been a little more thought put in this program & it structured a little differently.
posted on September 18, 2001 02:53:09 PM new
Fascinating again. Compare what the founding companies in the ALP are doing, and have done. One comment- see if you can see a difference between the 3 venues that have online auction platforms, and the 3 others...The Deity Him or Herself only knows what conclusions can be drawn from the obviously and completely different actions of the 3 companies without online auction platforms as compared with the others...
_____________________________________________
The American Liberty Partnership is the place to help the victims and their families
The American Liberty Partnership is an Internet industry initiative that is using the online medium to connect people who want to help with the organizations that need it the most. On our web site, you will find opportunities to support these organizations, as well as general information about how the relief effort is progressing and what needs are next on the horizon.
The Internet has played a strong role already in supporting the relief effort.
The partners in the American Liberty Partnership believe that the online medium can continue to be a powerful tool to help rebuild our shattered communities and our shaken confidence. Working together, our goal is to provide convenient access to the best information and resources and to connect people with the philanthropic organizations most in need of our help.
In the darkest of times, the worst of crisis, and the deepest of need, the spirit of America shines the brightest. Thank you for your continued help for the countless victims of this American tragedy.
Sincerely,
- Amazon.com
- AOL Time Warner
- Cisco Systems
- eBay
- Microsoft
- Yahoo!
Amazon.com is collecting contributions for the American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund. Because the company has waived its usual processing fees, all donated money will support Red Cross efforts to help victims of the September 11 tragedies and other events. Amazon.com's initiative, which uses its Honor System and 1-Click payment technologies to allow visitors to make fast, easy, and safe credit card contributions, was launched hours after the September 11 attack and already has raised well over $6 million from some 160,000 visitors. All of us at Amazon.com are gratified to be able to use the power of the Internet to help the Red Cross in its relief efforts.
http://www.amazon.com
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AOL/TIME WARNER
AOL Time Warner has committed the breadth of its resources to help with the recovery and rebuilding effort. It brought the AOL 18-wheeler from its usual NASCAR race location to New York City filled with 42 computer terminals with Internet access via satellite and its own power generator. In addition, AOL is providing NY families with 500 mobile communicators to enable the police to reach them. Time Warner Cable's people helped quickly connect police headquarters and the mayor's command center to Road Runner service to keep their command and control functions in operation. They also helped to wire the Family Assistance Center, hospitals and the coroner's office. Visitors to AOL Time Warner's interactive properties donated nearly $20 million to the International Association of Firefighters, the American Red Cross, the United Way and other agencies by clicking and giving online and on the philanthropy portal Helping.org. The company has also announced a $5 million contribution to the relief effort and pledged to match employee contributions up to $1,000 per person.
http://www.helping.org and http://www.aoltw.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cisco Systems
Cisco Systems Makes $6M gift to Key Relief and Support Organizations in New York City and Washington, DC.
Additional Donations Made by Cisco Employees Will Be Matched $ for $ by the Cisco Foundation.
As the terrible events in New York City and Washington, DC unfold Cisco Systems has taken action by making a number of significant gifts to key relief and support organizations in the affected areas. These organizations have the skilled personnel and experience to address the critical needs of our fellow citizens. It is our hope that our gift of $6M will make a difference. We are honored to partner with these organizations. The priorities are to support the work of the rescue workers, provide assistance to victims, and begin the healing of all affected by the tragedy.
People around America and the world have contributed to relief efforts in countless ways. Many millions of people, however, are still searching for the best way to contribute. In conjunction with the State of New York and New York City, eBay is pleased to announce Auction for America. Our goal is to raise $100 million within 100 days through the sale and purchase of items on eBay, as well as cash donations. Every dollar raised will be used to help respond to the immediate and longer-term needs of the victims, their families, and the communities affected by the events of September 11th. To help ensure the success of this extraordinary effort, eBay and its partners are donating their services for free and will receive absolutely no revenue from Auction for America listings. "We believe people are basically good. We believe that everyone has something to contribute." Since the day eBay was founded under these principles, millions of people have come together to form a powerful global trading community. The combination of community and the eBay platform presents an extraordinary opportunity to provide relief in the wake of September 11th.
Since the events of last Tuesday, eBay has also taken the following steps to help the recovery process:
Starting a few hours after the attack, eBay has temporarily suspending trading of all items directly related to the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, regardless of whether the events of September 11th are mentioned on the item or in the listing. It is our goal that no one benefit from the extraordinary events of September 11. In addition, since last Wednesday, eBay has been providing direct contributions, contacts and links to the September 11 Fund, the New York Fire 9-11 Relief Fund and other charitable organizations. Likewise, in accordance with the request of President Bush for Memorial services on Friday, September 14th, eBay held Community Memorials on each eBay Discussion, Help, Category and Chat Board.
http://www.eBay.com
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MICROSOFT
Everyone at Microsoft is stunned and saddened by last week's devastating events. Our hearts go out to the victims and their families, and everyone affected by this terrible situation. The company and its employees have responded with compassion in a number of different ways, including donations that address both the immediate and long-term needs in the impacted areas.
/09-12AttackDonationPR.asp On September 12, Microsoft announced a donation of $5 million in cash to the "September 11th Fund," established by The United Way and New York Community Trust to support a broad array of organizations aiding in the recovery and relief efforts. http://september11fund.org/epledge/sept11.cfm On the same day, Microsoft pledged an additional $5 million in technical services to local, state and federal governments and nonprofit organizations serving people in the affected area. Some of that assistance has already resulted in the development of the Family Registration Web at www.redcross.org, an online network which allows those in the impacted area to self-register with the Red Cross, helping the agency to respond to the estimated 6,700 inquiries. Internet access sites, created with computers donated by Compaq, are being set up in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. NPowerNY http://www.npowerny.org with support from Microsoft is providing local nonprofits with technology assistance. As part of its ongoing giving program, Microsoft matches employees' acts of given by matching, dollar for dollar, charitable contributions to nonprofits up to $12,000 per employee annually.
Millions of people are turning to the Web and Yahoo! to access information, communicate with loved ones, build community and find ways to help regarding September 11th's terrible events. The Internet fundamentally continues to be a crucial medium for people, particularly during times like these. We are very pleased that people have found Yahoo!'s offerings helpful during this crisis and that through Yahoo! they have contributed tens of millions of dollars to various relief efforts.
posted on September 18, 2001 02:55:07 PM new
One Goverment Office, Which one I can't remember, urged citizens to donate directly to "known organizations" that provide services in time of need such as the Red Cross. We are all trying to find ways to respond to this tragedy and Ebay should be encouraging donations to those organizations directly from their members. In theory the auctions sound like "good intentions" however Ebay is "only an Auction Venue" as they tell us so often, not a charitable, or service organization. Too many questions arise in how the funds are collected and to whom they are distributed and dispursed. Send your money where you know it will do the most good... to the people who handle emergency work on a regular basis. No questions from IRS when the checks go directly to the non profit groups.
posted on September 18, 2001 03:20:30 PM new
"Keep up the good work Amy."
Amy has reported the facts as she and hubby see it.
I happen to disagree. No--don't accept Billpoint and this tug at your heart-- strong arm tactics-- are not going to make me buckle under and use Billpoint. It is a choice. Mine to make and damn if I am going to feel guilty by not joining the eBay bandwagon to list auctions and subscribe to Billpoint. Just a personal opinion.
eBay is not a hobby, not a-- let's get rid of the extras we are tired of. It is my livlihood. And now I am bucking AFA auctions that have the best altruistic motives. But I wonder, have sellers really understood these listings? I say no. Especially in light of AFA auctions saying no Billpoint. Buyer pays shipping. Some of these sellers are in for a rude awakening.
eBay has prayed on our emotions, in this time of great emotional disraught, as people here that just want to do the right thing and help. This just wants me to sit right up and scream---WAKE UP!
Another eBay corporate decision that has all the shmarmy ramifications of not thinking about us, the sellers.
Meg--you know and I know---you have lost your head a few years ago. This is the icing to the cake.
posted on September 18, 2001 03:28:31 PM new
<<<auctions saying no Billpoint. Buyer pays shipping. Some of these sellers are in for a rude awakening.>>>>
I agree, I think there are going to be lots of misunderstanding and undeserved Negs given and received because of the misunderstandings
