posted on September 18, 2001 07:53:52 PMUnless the true agenda here is to make ebay fail at reaching the goal of $100 million.
I think what everyone is saying is YES there will be something like $100 million raised by the eBay Community and we can do it without having billpoint jammed up our butts.
If eBay will back off the "billpoint only" the community will do it thru eBay, but if they won't, we do an end run around them and make them look like the sick puppies they are.
Either way, this "community" will do it's part. If eBay want to "reach their goal", they will work with us.
posted on September 18, 2001 08:04:32 PM
<<how is ebay putting this on the backs of the sellers?>>>
As far as I can see the seller is the only one donating, (The product, the shipping the time it takes to post write a description, answer questions, Pack & Ship item, with the seller shipping materials that they paid for) The bidder isn't really contributing anything they are still getting a product for their money and bidding may or may not go higher remember a bidder is not going to bid $50.00 if they only have $20.00 to spend!!!
<<<No one is forced into participating...it is strictly voluntary>>>
That may be true per say but as in my other post I don't think it's fair that if you contribute you get a nice little flag on your about me page and plus they are encouraging A4A specific feedback. Tell me someone who doesn't contribute what will they look like to many bidders like they didn't contribute at all even if they did outside of the ebay arena. In my opinion no ebay is not forcing you but maybe twisting your arm a bit
<<<This program is for the ebay community to donate>>>
No, Again this is a way for sellers to donate, so stop with the community bit and its a way for ebay to get a lot of press. Did you ever think why they picked $100M so they can be the biggest and the best??????
<<<There have been thousands of lives lost, many many more thousands have been directly affected because those who lost their lives were mother, father, sister, brother, husband, wife, aunt, uncle, best friend, cousins, neighbors, classmates, of those many many thousands of others.>>>
This is true and again I will say it was a great tragedy, but also their are thousands that die every year from cancer that are mother, father, sister, brother, husband, wife, aunt, uncle, best friend, cousins, neighbors, classmates. Where was ebay for these charities not doing what they are doing now again not enough press to warrant it I guess. So please spare me the ra-ra cheerleader stuff about ebay
<<<<<I don't care if some have such a distrust of ebay that they don't think ebay can do anything without a selfish motive....the good this program can do is to important to worry about that right now. Why not wait until after the 100 days are over to express your disdain for ebay? Why not sit back, bite our tongues for a while, and pray that ebay not only meets the goal set but meets it 5 times over.>>>
Well amy most people that depend on ebay to make a living will not be able to make it that long these A4A auctions will affect the regular auctions thus causing some hardships for sellers that depend on the money to pay their bills, Kinda hard to sit back when your worrying weather you will be able to feed your family. HMMMM Amy Let me bet that you don't depend on ebay for your sole source of income you may do ebay full time yourself but I bet that your husband has a good job bringing in a weekly paycheck???? It's so much easier to be charitable when you financially comfortable.
posted on September 18, 2001 08:26:20 PM
Sad...So sad! At a time like this for eBay to come up with such SLIME is...SAD!!
Thank God PayPal is doing it RIGHT!!
It's a real toss-up as to who is making me feel more like hurling chunks: Greedy Meg or Crazy Jerry!!
I'm inviting all my auction friends to join me at PayPal for a REAL donation and NOT this truly disgusting & oportunistic exploitation of the worst American tragedy since the Civil War!
I'm truly not sure if I can ever sell on eBay ever again I'm so sickened and saddened over this...SLIME!
posted on September 18, 2001 08:44:20 PM(by the way Twin I was in the middle of the Northridge earthquake....and that fact has no more bearing on this than the fact that you were in the middle of the Loma Pietra one)
No, Amy, I don't think you're reading the posts. Here's mine again, with emphasis added for clarity.
"I was right at the center of the Loma Prieta earthquake back in '82. I am acutely aware of what a blessing those donations are."
You are so busy defending eBay that you don't even listen to what people are saying. My comment indeed does have a bearing on this. I UNDERSTAND how important relief is. And I still think eBay is wrong.
The public attempt to undermine this program won't hurt ebay but it damn well WILL hurt those who would be the benificiaries of this money.
The people who receive the money will be glad to get it. And your reference to "the public attempt to undermine" is about as fair as accusing another poster of being an eBay "cheerleader." If you were the least bit objective, you would see that eBay indeed is using this as a public relations opportunity.
No matter how you gussy it up, there is a direct line from the human suffering at WTC and financial gain for eBay. According to the Jewish faith, the best way to give is in secret. eBay isn't being secretive. They are milking it.
posted on September 18, 2001 10:10:50 PM
I read AW religiously. Most of the issues I ignore, mainly because I see both sides or I question having all of the facts. I've appreciated eBay for years and while I didn't like some of their changes I understood them from a business sense.
Ebay's opportunistic self-serving promotion in the name of the Sept. 11 tragedy is deplorable. I realize some see their actions as honorable, if you do you are lucky. I take no enjoyment in viewing a business partner behave in a shameful manner.
posted on September 18, 2001 10:43:06 PM
Microbes...no one is jamming billpoint up your hiney. You are not being forced to participate. Now if we WERE being forced then maybe your point would be valid.
I saw an interesting post on one of ebay's boards that addressed the point about billpoint. That poster suggested that another poster who did not want to sign up for billpoint could start a new id for the AFA auctions they wanted to run and use that id exclusively for those auctions...that way billpoint would not be associated with their regular account and there was no possibility of billpoint being "accidently" included in their auctions at some later date.
Seemed a reasonable compromise....especially since for these auctions billpoint was not making any money on the use of billpoint. It also was a work around for those who didn't want to jeopardize their paypal premiere account.
SMW...not situational ethics...just an acknowledgement that 1)we can't accuately know what another's motives are 2)we can only control what we do, not what others do 3)ethics also say we should not judge others
Twin...I have no doubt that ebay is hoping for some good PR on this...as are Ford, General Motors, Amazon, Home Depot, Paypal and many many others who have not given in silence but instead have been very public about their donations or assistance.
You mention waht the Jewish faith says about giving to others...what does it say about judgeing others motives and actions? What does it say about saying ill of another?
I'm surprised that you would decide that because I misinterpreted one thing you said that you have drawn the conclusion that I have been unable to understand the points you and others have been trying to make. Truely surprised.
Mrpotatohead...i am also surprised at this statement "I hope this doesn't mean that it would be considered acceptable to take money from people at gunpoint, as long as it was given to charity."
I am going to take that as being said without thinking and that you did not mean to insinuate that I would advocate such a position. I can't think of anything I have said in the past three years of posting at AW that would ever make you (or anyone)think I would ever advocate it was correct to take anything from anybody at gunpoint, for what ever reason
Dawna34...you have nothing that proves these auctions will hurt the regular auctions. I could accept it if you were wondering if there was a possibility...but to state it as fact is just scare tactics.
Maybe before you make pronouncements on what my situation is you should ask me first. If you would like to know the truth and not just the made-up assumptions you made here it is.
My husband retired 4 years ago because of health reasons. I had already quit my job to try and start my business before he had these health issues. Our income dropped drastically...so much so that we lost our home to foreclosure. If I did not have my ebay business we wouldn't make it every month...half way through each month I have to make a deposit from my ebay income into our household account in order for us to make it to the next retirement check. So for me this income is essential...it isn't play money.
I am not worried about these charity auctions killing my business...nor do I think they will drive all those so called little sellers off ebay. If any leave it is because they wanted to...or because their business was already failing. It won't be because of the charity auctions
And a special message to Greedbay....I thought you were ignoring me? What happened?
And I'm out of this conversation. I have given my opinion and heard all of yours. To keep posting would be to just be repeating myself
posted on September 18, 2001 11:54:35 PM"I have no doubt that ebay is hoping for some good PR on this...as are Ford, General Motors, Amazon, Home Depot, Paypal and many many others who have not given in silence but instead have been very public about their donations or assistance."
Yes, Amy, except that the other companies you mention GAVE OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS, QUICKLY, WILLINGLY AND FREELY. eBay is **revelling** in this unexpected publicity windfall AND IT DIDN'T COST THEM A DIME.
Have you actually READ the facts that have been posted here?????
Ebay's ONLY contribution to this cause (aside from minuscule hosting) is $1 million of stock value escalation from shares placed 3 years ago in a tax-deductible foundation they control---a foundation holding some $47+ million in value (and which cost them almost NOTHING, by the way, since it's a tax shelter).
If eBay TRULY CARED about the victims of this tragedy, they would use that money to donate a SIZABLE AMOUNT to the victims' Fund, preferably in matching grants (since that method would probably encourage the most AFA listings and bidding). AND IT STILL WOULDN'T COST THEM ANYTHING....but it would AT LEAST give the "appearance" that they're PARTICIPATING in this donation drive instead of merely BENEFITTING from it.
Instead, they concoct a scheme whereby the SELLERS bear the brunt of the burden, both in time/effort and money, to the tune of $99 million....and now where the sellers appear "unpatriotic" or "stingy" if they don't participate, because their names won't bear the token 'flag' icon of involvement in the drive....and where the sellers' regular auctions now have to 'compete' with highly-publicized "feel-good" AFA listings that also offer free shipping to the buyer.
And for its token $1 million "contribution", eBay gets untold 'goodwill' publicity (from the President, no less), new members in both the Auction and Billpoint, increased listing numbers, a way to "cook the books" to deceive investors and analysts as to the financial 'health' of the company, and last but not least, bragging rights on Christmas that "THEY" donated more money to the victims than ANY OTHER COMPANY.
If you can't see all that, then the blinders you wear in all matters involving eBay have become permanently affixed to your head. My concern is that your posts would serve to blind others also.
You said, "I keep thinking of all the threads over the past week about god and christianity...and then I read the threads today about this program and all I can do is shake my head and shed a few tears."
The fact that you chose not to capitalize 'God' and 'Christianity' tells me more about your beliefs (or lack thereof) than all the posts of yours I've read. Perhaps that's why we seldom agree on anything---we view everything from opposite ends of the spectrum.
But for you to "shake your head and shed a few tears" over the posts on this thread criticizing eBay in this matter is TRULY, TRULY beyond my comprehension.
posted on September 19, 2001 01:25:57 AM
Oh well, I'm a woman, I have the right to change my mind
Granee...so now it depends on how much a contribution hurts the contributor? If it doesn't hurt enough the contribution is worthless....the contributor is "dirty"?
Do I get the same right to judge you on how much you have contributed? Do I get to decide if your contributions "hurt" your pocketbook enough?
As for the other companies I mentioned...how do you "KNOW" where the money came from? How do you know the "hurt" they felt was appropiately deep enough?
Who gets to define for others what the "proper" amount to contribute is? You? Why? What special insight do you have?
Why do you worry about appearing unpatriotic? You know your own heart...you know the truth that lies there...what others think about you is unimportant if you know you have acted honorably.
Or is it because you are afraid that you might suffer financially? If those were true tears you shed would not your financial well being be secondary to your desire to see the victims be helped in any way possible?
Or is it just others...and in particular ebay, who are not allowed to think about their own finacial/business well being, while you are allowed to?
What ebay "concocted" was a program for the ebay users to use the auction platform to leverage their money so they could raise more money than they themselves (the user) might be able to give. It wasn't about ebay's contributions but about a way for the user to give (if they so desired to utilize the program).
We don't know how much Meg, Pierre or ebay the corporation has given...and we may never know...especially if those donations were given in "secret" as Twinsoft suggested was the Jewish belief.
Would you feel ashamed if you were to find out that ebay also made private donations? Or would YOUR "blinders" prevent you from finding any good in ebay and its top brass?
I found it interesting that you zeroed in on my non-capitalization of two words to base a broad, damning judgement of my faith (or lack of same, as you have assumed). Is this the same way you examine ebay? Look for the minutiae and base your broad assesment of them on such trivial, minor details? Do you look at the tiny spot and think you can accurately define the whole?
My capitalizing or not capitalizing two words can give no clue to what is in my heart...but your judgement of me based on that tiny point does say much about your abilities to rationally examine a situation.
All your tears were shed for the victims? Is your compassion so limited that once it is spent you have no more? Do you not, when seeing a tragedy, shed tears until you think you can shed no more, and then minutes or hours later see another injustice or cruelty and find the tears are as abundant as before? Your tears are finite and once spent your heart is never touched again? Then I can understand why you find me incomprehensible...and I am shedding tears for you because of it.
I wish you peace and tranquility Granee. May god touch and soften your heart.
posted on September 19, 2001 05:03:48 AM
It's really sad when I have to come down on the side of the eBay boosters, but I have too in this case. I think Amy has the right slant on the situation.
I, for one, do not care about what PR slant eBay puts on this, as long as it is a positive one for the internet auction business. We have long been beset with nothing but negative stories about fraud and excessive shipping and handling and bad sellers and the like. If this generates even a little good press, and makes folks look at us with even just a little more confidence, that will help us in the long run.
I am one of the many people taking advantage of the AFA promotion. Why? Because I feel it is the right thing to do FOR ME AND MY FAMILY. We get to donate more money than we normally could in this way, which means more help for those that need it.
Am I worried about AFA affecting my regular auction offerings? NO. I'm still getting plenty of hits and bids on my normal fare, and the AFA ones are getting lots of hits and bids as well. This is a "win-win" situation for me. I am relying on internet sales for my income right now...and believe me, if I felt this would really impact my bottom line, I would not be doing it.
I do not care who is donating what or how much. If companies, eBay included, want to get some press out of the fact they are donating, more power to them...as long as they give what they can to those that need it. I only care that I am doing what little I can to fulfill my duty as a human being to help out others in need.
posted on September 19, 2001 05:13:05 AM
It's a good thing most people here can see gross hypocrisy for what it is, whether that hypocrisy is generated by a corporation slobbering with greed like eBay is in this situation, or by an individual who makes statements that completely and directly contradict their own actions.
posted on September 19, 2001 05:26:44 AM
Amy, don't you think if eBay would address some of these concerns that MUCH more money would be raised? The fact they will not to is what is bothering a lot of people. Look at their poll, over 70% of the people said they will NOT participate.
posted on September 19, 2001 05:32:49 AM
And a special message to Amy in response to her special message to me-
<<<And a special message to Greedbay....I thought you were ignoring me? What happened?>>>
I was ignoring you on the thread where you saw fit to attack and insult me, WITHOUT PROVOCATION AND WITHOUT GOOD REASON, not that I care too durn much. That is NOT this thread. I am NOT ignoring you on THIS thread because A. You hadn't yet done so, and B. I think you're a dangerous person who practices the diametric opposite of what she preaches, and your constant attempts to stigmatize and mischaracterize the motives of the people who abhor this program must be answered directly, IMHO. THAT'S what happened.
And Mods- she asked, so I answered
[ edited by GreedBay on Sep 19, 2001 05:35 AM ]
posted on September 19, 2001 05:42:50 AM
OK - just knock it off.
If you find another User that abhorrent, then use the "ignore" feature (click on their ID and click on the ignore all posts by...) It will make for a more pleasant AW experience and will lessen the chance of a posting vacation being issued by a Moderator.
posted on September 19, 2001 07:27:39 AMIf those were true tears you shed would not your financial well being be secondary to your desire to see the victims be helped in any way possible?
Amy, Thanks for your small concession above. Everyone understand the positive and negative aspects of this. Let me ask you, why do you think so many people are outraged by eBay's charity?
We get to donate more money than we normally could in this way, which means more help for those that need it.
TRC, we all know that the money eBay raises is a good thing. But publishing a list of who participated (and who didn't), when eBay itself stands to gain, is just plain wrong.
No one is arguing that fund raising is bad. It may seem petty, but yes it does matter to me that eBay is giving practically nothing, twisting our arms, and will eventually make a nice profit from this tragedy. Yes, it does matter to me.
Mrpotatohead...i am also surprised at this statement "I hope this doesn't mean that it would be considered acceptable to take money from people at gunpoint, as long as it was given to charity."
I am going to take that as being said without thinking and that you did not mean to insinuate that I would advocate such a position.
I thought about it. I didn't say you would advocate such, but that doesn't mean that nobody would, which brings us back to my original comment... when deciding that the ends justify the means, who gets to choose?
Normally, I find that I agree with your viewpoints here, but I think eBay dropped the ball on this one and that you're missing something, too.
To address only one of the concerns raised-
A4A auctions are in competition with non-A4A auctions, and the non-participants are being put at a disadvantage due to the "free shipping" being offered buyers in the A4A auctions. All things being equal, what buyer will pay for shipping on a non-A4A auction when they can get it free (along with a warm fuzzy for "contributing" to a good cause) elsewhere?
If this program were only running a short time, it might not be such a big deal. Unfortunately for many sellers though, it is scheduled to run through Christmas, which could very well hurt those who depend on eBay sales as their sole (or main) source of income.
There is the possibility that some sellers may even be forced out of business (and this is not just my opinion- read some of the other posts). Putting people out of work- not the kind of result one would expect of a charity program, I'd think.
It's unfortunate that eBay didn't talk to its customers (sellers) about what kind of program to set up before forging ahead with this plan, but I guess timing is everything...
posted on September 19, 2001 07:33:57 AM
In the absense of this promotion ebaY would still be hosting a large number of auctions claiming charitable purposes relating to the attacks. Many would be thoroughly charitable, others will run through virtually every shade of marginal to outright scam, (and will be there anyway, coexisting with the ebaY sponsored program). This program ameliorates the sour taste this will inspire with a clear simple promise that 100% of all proceeds of the subject auction goes to the designated charity. It won't make everyone happy, but I think it is appropriate.
As far as competition? Competing with charity can be very difficult and unfair. In this area the promotion may actually lessen the problem because:
- It will discourage many other auction sellers from making charitable claims based on promising to give only a small portion of the proceeds.
- (At least initially) The AFA promotion seems to be attracting highly competitive bidding and inflated price results. Thus they do not directly compete for those customers seeking hard value rather than charitability.
posted on September 19, 2001 07:46:46 AMfigmente, that is a good point. So are concerns about competing with charity auctions during Christmas. Many sellers do depend on eBay for their livelihood.
posted on September 19, 2001 07:56:55 AMIt's a good thing most people here can see gross hypocrisy for what it is...
Were that true, those professing their profound sympathies and concern wouldn't be trying to derail any charitable effort.
Were that true, those who abhor ebay's "exploitation" wouldn't be devising ways to acquire the AFA logo on their feedback page.
Were that true, there would be no expressions of outrage that ebay is attempting to pass off sellers' efforts as their own because true giving is devoid of any interest in WHO reaps the glory.
So ebay's taking credit for YOUR good works. On the list of worries right now, that one takes its deserved position at dead last.
posted on September 19, 2001 08:12:46 AM
Is eBay donating a 100% of Auction for America proceeds to the cause, or will they take a nice healthy chunk out for administrative costs like the United Way does?
