posted on December 8, 2000 07:01:31 PM new
"The world is not perfect...sometimes you just have to make the 'best' decision you can among the choices available to you..."
I agree. Like not having sex until you are married in the first place. Or dating someone only because marriage is the next step. If people would do these things in the first place, there would be no abortions.
posted on December 8, 2000 07:27:19 PM new
mzalez,
The sad thing is, according to her posts, this is a married couple who never want kids.
So knowing that no birth control is 100% effective - I am asking all- why would you not have your tubes tied or your partner a vasectomy if you never want kids - why chance it and have to make this kind of decision?
Although I do not agree with the poster's decision - based on what she has posted - I do agree and applaud the fact that the choice to keep this child when they feel they would not be good parents and do not want to be is to be commended. There are so many people out there that have no business with children and knew it before they had them. Those are the kids I feel most sorry for - the neglected or abused by their own parents who should have never kept them.
Anyway, off for some xmas fun - have a great weekend all!!
posted on December 8, 2000 07:29:28 PM newLike not having sex until you are married in the first place. Or dating someone only because marriage is the next step. If people would do these things in the first place, there would be no abortions.
Of course, for those women who do not espouse the belief that one may engage in sex only when married, you're demanding they adopt your belief system, at least in regard to women and sex.
Your suggestion also assumes that no married woman ever has an abortion.
posted on December 8, 2000 07:43:28 PM new
silkmoth, no disrespect taken, thanks. Life would be a little more 'perfect' though, if people thought of the consequences of their actions before they act out.
boysmommy, I didn't realize that is what the poster was saying, that they are a married couple not wanting children. Somehow I understood something totally different...I didn't read the first thread started and just picked up on this second one... Anyway...hopefully this married couple's parental instincts will bloom with this child, as it happens often with couples who previously thought they didn't want children. I pray this child does not end up neglected or abused!
HCQ, I was only agreeing with the poster, not demanding or assuming anything.
posted on December 8, 2000 08:00:35 PM new
If you take a human life in our society, it is homicide. On rare occasions, the courts deem a homicide to be "justifiable". If you take a human life in the womb, it's a "choice". I personally find this to be somewhat hypocritical.
posted on December 8, 2000 08:50:28 PM new
I find it bizarre that people in this forum are squeamish about talking about tampons, but appear to have little trouble discussing the pros and cons of destroying living beings--or "womb contents," for those with terminal mind/body/spirit separation.
I find it stomach-turning that some of the participants in these threads keep congratulating themselves on maintaining a "polite and civil" affect while discussing one of the most barbaric things a person can do under U.S. law.
And I find the pro-choice positions on the two threads so disingenuously and amorally argued that they foster a sense of repugnance, even revulsion.
Think I'll stick with the "killing for fun" thread.
posted on December 8, 2000 09:04:07 PM new
"Anyway...hopefully this married couple's parental instincts will bloom with this child, as it happens often with couples who previously thought they didn't want children."
Sadly they will not allow a couple the chance to adopt the child either. Their own paternal insticts will never kick in as they have decided to abort this life they have created. Which I have no problem with them not having kids - I do however, take issue with taking the chance and then not facing up to the consequences - the chance being creating a human life.
posted on December 10, 2000 06:22:14 AM new
Nothing that has been said here so far even comes close to changing my mind about my decision. My husband (not my "sperm donor" ) and I are making the best decision for our lives. Until any of you who choose to criticize my decision can show me that you've never made a decision that was the best one for you then your arguments hold little value to me.
I've said before, I admire the folks who can take the adoption route. I'm not one of those folks. If you must hold me in contempt for being selfish, so be it. I have to live this life today and every day hereafter.
edit so I didn't sound quite so defensive...it's been a rough week.
[ edited by turtlesgirl on Dec 10, 2000 06:27 AM ]
[ edited by turtlesgirl on Dec 10, 2000 06:27 AM ]
posted on December 10, 2000 08:32:43 AM new
I'm sorry, turtlesgirl,
It had not been my intention to criticize you, merely to share my stories in the hope that they might prove useful to you as you make your decision.
The wonderful thing about the period before actually taking an action is that you get to change your mind if you want to do so...but in this kind of situation, I can't think that accusations will help.
You've asked for someone who's never made a bad decision to speak with...but don't you think that any person who stepped forth to proclaim this of himself or herself would be so lacking in emotional honesty/humility that the opinions you got would be of little worth?
I think that if any experience is important to me when making a decision it's that of the people who've suffered some sort of aftermath as a result of one choice or another.
That was the motivation behind my writing to you. Not to argue or debate or try to personally change your mind, but to give you something to think about when you're pondering this, as I'm sure you'll do up until the minute of the actual decision.
My sincere hope for you is that you make the decision that is right for you, that you can live with and support and think back upon without burden in years to come. And that hope comes squarely from my experience of the cost borne of making a very bad decision. A decision that when people ask if there's anything at all you could go back and change, what would it be, leaps to my mind and makes it impossible to answer that I would change nothing. My life, my choices, my experience, and they are of as much or as little worth to you as you let them be, and only you know how to calculate that.
krs, the details about Pete's role in all of this are not for me to share in public, sorry, I should have left that part out. Cranky? I have nothing so variable as a crank controlling my emotional temperature, visualize an On/Off switch, heheh. But I will be quite certain to add cranky to the lobotomylilts sig when composing a birthday poem for you...
Fred! How nice to see you and thank you for once again saying something to me that brings home a truth I'd been neglecting. Your wordgifts are very precious to me.
I won't ask that the thread be closed, because I don't think that's right to do...but my part in it is done. Good Luck to you, turtlesgirl, and again, feel very free to get in touch via e-mail if you ever want to.
D.
(edited to fix that errant bold tag!)
[ edited by dcj on Dec 10, 2000 08:35 AM ]
posted on December 10, 2000 10:18:15 AM newthe details about Pete's role in all of this are not for me to share in public, sorry, I should have left that part out
But you didn't, Diana. You also gave us Pete's "occupation," and you cited your son, Christopher, by name, and provided his date of birth--material that was not necessary to anything you were saying. You're a lucky person, having family members who are willing to have the sorry details of their lives trotted out before millions, just to add color to your story. (I'm assuming someone who values privacy rights as much as you must would never have made those disclosures without their prior approval.) I certainly wouldn't have been so generous.
posted on December 10, 2000 10:58:56 AM new
turtlesgirl...My niece and her husband desperately want a child that they have not been able to conceive on their own. Since they have only been married for 3 years, Social Services will not allow them into any adoption program yet (they want 5 years). They have been undergoing numerous infertility procedures and are starting the process for in-vitro, which costs big bucks yet has no guarantees. Instead of spending their money ON a child, they are having to spend it on trying to get one.
I can understand you and your husband's decision not to raise a child. It is an overwhelming responsibility that changes your entire life. (Most of us think it changes it for the better though.) In any case, please consider contacting any Alternative Birth Center and consider adoption. My niece literally cries when she gets her period each month. They are a wonderful couple who would give any child a great life. And they are only one of thousands of couples experiencing the same emptiness in their lives.
As a side note, my nephew turns 18 on December 21st. He was born when my sister was 18 and her boyfriend was 17. Although they did not stay together as a couple, we lived in a fairly small town and had lots of family support from both sides. I just received a copy of my hometown newspaper featuring the annual big Thanksgiving Day Football game and my nephew, as the star quarterback, made 3 touchdown passes (actually he connected on 14 of 19 passes for 331 yards) and led them to a big rivalry victory. He's also a Class Officer and Honor Society Member. I remember when my sister got pregnant and I thought she should get an abortion so she could finish school and get her career in gear. It's only now that I realize what we would have all missed had that happened and how important it was that he be a part of our lives.
You hold the power to pass on the gift of life to another human being. What you do with that power is ultimately your decision. But the choice to give that child life and put him/her into a loving family would be the most courageous and unselfish act imaginable.
My post to Diana is simply to the point--a point that needed making, IMO. I found the launching post of this thread appalling, for reasons I gave, and some others.
You can differ with my response, but characterizing me as "cruel" is excessive and personal, toke.
posted on December 10, 2000 11:58:11 AM newpareau...
It was neither excessive, nor personal. I certainly did find your post cruel. Perhaps you differ with my perception, but it is my perception nonetheless.
That's all I'm going to say about it. I have no intention of dragging her through an endless semantic debate.
posted on December 10, 2000 12:12:15 PM new
Do the posters on this thread know each other personally? Some of the responses seem rather strange.
Also, I'd like to say that while I do sympathize with infertile couples, the world does not owe them a child. Something about the phrase "instead of spending money on a child, they're spending money to get one" rubs me the wrong way particularly when the person who's considering an abortion is being advised (ever so politely) to consider adoption, which she's already stated is not an option. I don't know if you all have noticed but many people think very harshly of married people (especially) who give a child up for adoption. (See my comments in the other thread for a concrete example). My guess is, the pregnant lady doesn't want 8 more months of cajoling, imploring, people sharing their "experiences" (however valid) etc. Someone (many people) being desperate for a child does not automatically mean this woman should put her child up for adoption as some kind of symbolic penance for all the people who can't conceive.
posted on December 10, 2000 12:42:21 PM new
I don't know about that, stockticker. He seems to do his best work when thinking of me. His, uh, ardor is ill concealed in the copy for this latest effort, which has the earth longing to "caress" me (I kid you not).
However, we may be mistaken as to the ID. There's another Dregen out there, a self-described "full-time student/part-time N.I.E slave/full time satanist," whose hobbies include guitar "of the harder varieties." Who knows? Perhaps someone who cares about the creator of the work should turn in the Dregen addy to Geocities as a copyright violator, since the picture is protected by the following legend: "The IMAGES shown here are the intellectual property of Ross Wright (The ARTIST and creator of said IMAGES) and are copyright 1954-2009 (forever and a day). Any copying or reproduction of said IMAGES are strictly prohibited." (sic)
posted on December 10, 2000 12:53:20 PM new
Not necessarily Ross, Irene, but could be someone who has appropriated his intellectual property, with or without permission.
posted on December 10, 2000 01:02:56 PM new
brighid...I'm sorry if you read more into my post than I meant. It was an example to show turtlesgirl that there are plenty of loving couples who would love their child if she did not want to raise it.
Of course seeing the pregnancy to term and giving it up for adoption is an option...it's just not an easy one or one that she feels would fit their lifestyle. I don't think harshly of any woman, married or not, who gives up her child. I think those women are heroes. And I don't consider a child symbolic in any way. I consider it a blessing...if not for turtlesgirl, than for someone else.
posted on December 10, 2000 01:03:36 PM new
I'm going to lock this thread as it has turned to discussion of someone that is not an AW member and is unable to participate.
