loggia
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posted on September 23, 2001 02:10:30 PM new
First of all you guys need to remember that paypal is not a bank, and therefore all the regs that banks follow are NOT followed by paypal.
Your MasterCard transactions are regulated by the Electronic Fund Transfer Act. From what I have seen PayPal does not seem to understand it.
He told me that it is not any fault of paypal at all. "Seems alot of companies are double charging lately" is what he told me.
Absurd. You might see this problem occasionally but not as often as has suddenly exploded onto the boards here. It's clearly a PayPal issue but one that will be hard to pin on them. Based on their past responses, I doubt you will hear them own up to the problem. You'll probably get a verbose answer about the way charges work that simulatenously blames anyone but PayPal.
[ edited by loggia on Sep 23, 2001 02:12 PM ]
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NWREBEL
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posted on September 23, 2001 02:20:56 PM new
How do you contact paypal and speak with a rep if the call center is closed? I see some have actually spoken to paypal reps over this issue. I challenge all that has been affected to report this issue to the BBB and if we dont see a resolution quickly that we all get together and seek an attorney as it wont be hard to find an attorney that will take this matter on a contingency.
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kittykittykitty
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posted on September 23, 2001 02:22:17 PM new
?
well, i may be talking to dead air here, since you say you're finished with the subject and so may not read this, but i have never attacked you. no one else who's posted has ever seen this on their paypal account until a few days ago. i have never seen it on my account until a few days ago. this is all i was saying. this change has caused significant problems for some, minor problems for others. people here have reported paypal themselves admitting there's a problem with double charging.
k3
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kittykittykitty
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posted on September 23, 2001 02:26:49 PM new
everyone's got to do what they've got to do, but my suggestion is to wait until tomorrow morning when damon shows up. he's always been very responsive, and i have every confidence that he will be on this, as well.
k3
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loggia
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posted on September 23, 2001 02:40:50 PM new
Why wait? I wrote a simulated answer for you:
parody
Hi Kitty,
When you charge something to your debit card, the merchant may put a pending charge to make sure you have enough funds. That pending charge falls off in a few days. You are not charged twice. PayBlech has no control how the merchant submits its charges. Our debit card operates the same way as a debit card you would get from your bank, but we offer 1.5% back.
parody
Notice how my parody faithfully ignores all the problems mentioned in the above thread and shifts the blame elsewhere! 
[ edited by loggia on Sep 23, 2001 02:45 PM ]
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NWREBEL
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posted on September 23, 2001 02:51:39 PM new
HERE IS A FUNNY TWIST MY TRANSACTIONS WERE ORIGINALLY COMPLETED SEPT 19,2001 AND WERE DEDUCTED FROM MY ACCOUNT AT THAT TIME. THESE TRANSACTIONS STILL SHOW PENDING IN MY HISTROY. WELL SEPT 21 I CANCELLED MY PAYPAL DEBIT CARD COMPLETELY. SEPT 22 I AM BILLED AGAIN FOR THE SAME TRANSACTIONS FROM SEPT 19,2001 AND MY PAYPAL CARD WAS NOT EVEN ACTIVE. WELL THESE NEW CHARGES ON SEPT 22 SHOW AS COMPLETED AND THE CHARGES FROM THE 19TH STILL SHOW PENDING. THERE IS NO PAYPAL EXCUSE TO WIGGLE OUT OF THIS. I AM UPSIDE DOWN BY $1200 BECAUSE OF THIS. I ADVISE THAT ALL CANCEL THEIR DEBIT CARDS OR RISK THE SAME TREATMENT WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT IT. UPDATE I GOT PAYPAL ON THE PHONE AND THEY GOT ME ON HOLD AFTER EXPLAINING TO THE REP WHAT WAS GOING ON. I WILL KEEP THIS BOARD UPDATED.
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rainbowman11
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posted on September 23, 2001 02:57:28 PM new
And I thought it was just me.....
They took $7.74 three times and I emailed them about it. I haven't gotten a response yet but I just went and checked my account and it is all straight now. The two duplicate charges were credited to me. I am a little concerned if anyone tries to pay with Paypal for my auctions that close today.
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thewholenineyards
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posted on September 23, 2001 03:01:31 PM new
I am on hold with someone there right now, they are checking things. Hopefully this will be resolved.
Will we continue to be double charged until this is fixed??
Anyone else experiencing this needs to call them ASAP so they are aware that this is happening to more than just a handful of people and can take care of it accordingly.
Thank you NWREBEL for posting that they are taking calls now.
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thewholenineyards
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posted on September 23, 2001 03:10:35 PM new
I spoke to Michelle.
The funds were added back into my account as well. She apologized like CRAZY saying how the system that works for them between merchants of pending and completed did have a glitch in it. They said when they turned their phones back on from the upgrade that they've had a LOT of phone calls regarding this and it is now fixed.
So it wasn't us, it was NOT NORMAL, it wasn't something that HAPPENS ALL THE TIME so to any of you who said we should all chill out and relax? Ha.
Now I will. I have my money back.
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NWREBEL
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posted on September 23, 2001 03:17:08 PM new
I am happy to hear this matter is resolved now all you haters that didnt believe we had a problem can just trickle away like a dust ball.
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MichelleG
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posted on September 23, 2001 03:30:12 PM new
NWREBEL
I have deleted two of your posts that contained information that violates AW's Community Guidelines (I have also emailed you re this matter).
Posting a publicly listed telephone number and the name of the employee you have dealt with is OK, posting their personal extension number is not.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Michelle
[email protected]
*edited for UBB
[ edited by MichelleG on Sep 23, 2001 03:31 PM ]
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NWREBEL
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posted on September 23, 2001 03:35:44 PM new
Michelle with all that has gone on in America I felt it was only right to share what I did so that other members may recover their funds as well. It seems right to try and help others and I think that your a little heavy handed as the information was provided to help fellow users. All this privacy and cant do this or cant do that cra,p is whats wrong with America. May your day be pleasant and if you ever need help I hope I am one to pass you by as you wave for assitance. LET FREEDOM RING
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MichelleG
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posted on September 23, 2001 03:41:37 PM new
NWREBEL
Your intentions may be to help but posting private information still violates AW's User Agreement.
For future reference, discussions of moderation decision and policy are conducted via email only, not within the Message Center.
Michelle
[email protected]
*edited for UBB - again
[ edited by MichelleG on Sep 23, 2001 03:46 PM ]
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Coonr
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posted on September 23, 2001 03:48:10 PM new
I am happy to hear this matter is resolved now all you haters that didnt believe we had a problem can just trickle away like a dust ball.
So much for addressing the topic and not others......
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wranglers
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posted on September 23, 2001 03:49:54 PM new
what is this n b thing??
[n}test[b]
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paypaldamon
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posted on September 23, 2001 03:50:32 PM new
Hi,
I am not aware of the double-charging issue. We will, of course,correct any errors on any customer account if there is a problem with the debit card. No customer is going to lose money as a result of this and it will be corrected.
I will post when I have more information on Monday. Many thanks for your patience. I am sorry if this has caused any user an inconvenience.
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MichelleG
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posted on September 23, 2001 03:52:34 PM new
wranglers
That's my UBB messup - shhhh! I fixed it 
Michelle
[email protected]
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wranglers
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posted on September 23, 2001 03:53:50 PM new
ok
i see that MichelleG had to edit her posts because of the UBB code not bing right so i guess [n][b] wansn't something new, or it was something wrong, or something like that..........
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kittykittykitty
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posted on September 23, 2001 03:54:09 PM new
i just got off the phone with paypal. the rep i spoke to was clueless about the situation and, sad to say, replied with nearly exactly the words in your parody, loggia .
i had this window open and read to him several of the posts where paypal admitted there's a glitch. to no avail. he just kept repeating that 'some merchants ... [blah, blah, blah].' telling him that these exact same merchants have never done this before until the past few days, and that paypal itself is doing the same thing - a new entry for 'completed' - for the cash back, made no difference. i asked if it was still supposed to work the way it always has, with a single entry that changes from pending to completed. he said yes, but who knows.
but he did reverse the charge. just checked and the money is back.
k3
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MichelleG
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posted on September 23, 2001 04:01:40 PM new
Sorry I missed this a little earlier.
now all you haters that didnt believe we had a problem can just trickle away like a dust ball.
NWREBEL
Please remember that the Community Guidelines also require you to treat all AW Users and Staff with respect and consideration when posting. Continuing to post in the above manner may result in warnings and the ultimate suspension of your Message Center privileges.
Your cooperation in abiding by the Community Guidelines would be appreciated.
Michelle
[email protected]
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hcross
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posted on September 23, 2001 04:41:06 PM new
Coonr, methinks we were talking to ourselves all along, didn't we already point this out several times: "She apologized like CRAZY saying how the system that works for them between merchants of pending and completed did have a glitch in it."
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Coonr
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posted on September 23, 2001 04:57:02 PM new
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jhf2662
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posted on September 23, 2001 05:03:54 PM new
Hello, I might as well post my results.
I talked w/ Scott at PayPal. He said this was the first he'd heard of "this double posting thing". Which is how I described it. I then went on to tell him that it's happening to everyone & that I've been reading the message boards. He asked which ones I told him AW. He then put me on hold told me Debit Card dept would fix by TUESDAY.
I wasn't too happy w/ that response, asked if I was screwed until then or what? Since I want to use these funds to pay others w/ PayPal. I told him which charges were DOUBLE.
HOLD AGAIN.
Came back & said Debit card DEPT was going to release those charges, that I mentioned. Told me not to use the card tonite.
Well still not released, but I have "faith" that they will be shortly & I will post back here, when they are. 6:50pm I called.
All that & a Bag of Chips Too!!
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jhf2662
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posted on September 23, 2001 05:22:35 PM new
7:10pm checked & looks like most of my money is back, I was able to pay someone out of my balance also.
Now that's FAST. THANK YOU.
Not too sure if I'm going to continue using the Debit card though, atleast not for awhile, see if this happens again.
All that & a Bag of Chips Too!!
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lanetzliving
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posted on September 23, 2001 05:58:24 PM new
I just called and they said they were working on it. The two transactions were reversed and the money was back in the account with in minutes.
Thanks paypal!
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dannkim
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posted on September 23, 2001 06:32:31 PM new
Just got off the phone with Paypal, he said that this is a problem they are working on, but that he would release the funds, although it may not cycle until after midnight.
He also said that the pending charges would have expired after a 4 business day period, which could put some of us in a bad spot of being over the limit for many days.
I think from now on I will be only using it as a debit card and use my pin number, where the charge is immediately completed, thus not causing this problem, yeah, I won't get the 1.5% cash back, but at this point, until this problem is fixed, it's just not worth it.
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jhf2662
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posted on September 23, 2001 08:47:54 PM new
Well I just checked, still have 2 items double posted, though they are small ones totaling about $10 from my local convenience store.
Will send PayPal an e-mail shortly, though I imagine this should be taken care of soon.
Though Scott said they would release these charges too..hmmm
Everyone check your account HISTORY... sigh
All that & a Bag of Chips Too!!
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gomarek
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posted on September 23, 2001 11:23:09 PM new
Hi All, This is Marek from BidPay and obviously I am not going to come to PayPal's defense on this issue, but I might be able to offer a little insight.
Many cardholders are not aware that when you use a credit/debit card the merchant places a 'reserve' on those funds.
By-way-of-example...and something to be aware of when you travel... when you book an airline ticket they 'reserve' the funds at the time of booking and then actually TAKE the funds when you purchase your ticket. Likewise hotels and car rental companies will often 'reserve' the full value of your stay or the term of your car rental when you check in and/or pick up the car.
These 'reserves' often tie up your free credit even though you have not yet been billed.
RESERVES generally fall off your account within 4-5 business days if the merchant does not present a request for payment.
Most banks are very aware of this process and it is quite common.
PayPal uses an outside company to obtain an authorzation to approve your purchase CyberCash and CyberSource are two such companies and I am willing to bet that there is a software glitch between PayPal and however they use to obtain these authorizations that is causing your account to be double-authorized when you use your card.
My long winded point here is that there is a difference between actually being charged and there being a reserve placed on your available funds.
If any of you have problems with your banks using debit cards related to this type of situation your bank should be more than understanding if you point this issue out to them and show them that there was indeed only one charge for the specified amount.
Hopefully all this will resolve itself over the next few days.
I have heard of a number of such things happening in the past week and a half and you should know that many of the companies computer systems who handle these types of transactions are/where located in NYC near the WTC and this may be part of the problem.
Hopefully this info helps. All the best.
Marek
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uaru
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posted on September 24, 2001 12:08:39 AM new
Marek,
You demonstrated a lot of class to me with your post, it did a lot to earn my respect.
Congratulations on BidPay's merger with Western Union.
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dannkim
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posted on September 24, 2001 05:11:53 AM new
Update: It's been another 10+ hours since I called and still the charge is pending, even though Scott said he would have it removed last night.
I still have yet to receive an email reply back as yet also.
Hopefully this will get worked out soon, it's now been almost 4 days of this thing pending.
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