posted on September 29, 2001 11:08:45 AM
Kiara makes a very good point...what are you considering unreasonable?
To the majority of the users (buyers and sellers) a reasonable reserve is one that is in the ballpark of the historical ebay selling price of that particular item. If a widget normally sells for between $45-$65 then a reserve set in that range is reasonable.
If you, as a buyer, want to pay $25 for that widget then I guess I can see why you would think that a $45 reserve is "unreasonable". The problem is, the unreasonable price point is not the reserve but the amount you are willing to pay. You want to "steal" the item...not a bad thing in itself, but an expectation that requires that you find a seller who has such a small sum invested in the item that selling the widget for $20-$40 below the norm won't hurt him.
It isn't the reserve that is the problem here...it is that most sellers have a larger investment in the item that prevents them from selling at bargain basement-fire sale prices. You want the item at the fire sale price.
So instead of coming here and branding reserves as unreasonable why not just realize that a seller who is listing a reserve auction has the reasonable desire to get the normal ebay market price for the item...which he should be able to. He has no obligation to invest his money so he can give you a "gift".
You want to get a "bargain"...realize that in order to get that you will need to find the seller who got lucky and found the item at a "steal" himself.
I don't think I've had anyone give me a gift on e-bay.
I also see all kinds of reserves just sitting there and not being met in the category I buy in. They do discourage buyers. Maybe not all buyers, but no doubt many. I will continue to avoid reserve auctions.
posted on September 29, 2001 11:38:56 AMYou want to get a "bargain"...realize that in order to get that you will need to find the seller who got lucky and found the item at a "steal" himself
Or spend the time to go out and hunt for bargains as hard the sellers do. Finding stuff on eBay is easy... Finding the same stuff for half the price it brings on eBay is work.
posted on September 29, 2001 11:48:47 AMMaybe not all buyers, but no doubt many.
For positive not all buyers, and in reality, not really many either.
I don't think I've had anyone give me a gift on e-bay.
Do you try to buy below market value? Nothing wrong with that by any means, but some people rightfully refuse to sell below market value.
By the same token, holding out for more than market value leads to a "no sale". You don't make money doing this.
see all kinds of reserves just sitting there and not being met
Any seller who's reserves are constantly not being met is either "not in it for the money", or will eventually lower his / her reserves. To do what doesn't work will cost you money instead of making you money.
posted on September 29, 2001 12:13:20 PM
Microbes,
I basically agree. Sometimes I buy below market value, but definitely not always. For the most part I feel tha e-bay is a much better veunue for buying antique porcelain items. I don't know that much about other categories. I can buy and pay shipping, have more variety to choose from....all that and pay less than antique mall prices, not to mention doing it all from home. I see many items literally sitting in antique malls for years with no buyer. Book price doesn't always mean anything. Market value is hard to define in this area, as what a collector pays could be above or below what an item generally sells for. It really depends on many variables, and you never know.
posted on September 29, 2001 12:29:31 PM
hey if the buyer wants something at fire sale prices let hime invest 2-3000.00 at an auction and sell off everything until that one item is left at little or no investment ....or better yet let them invest 10,000.00 in a total estate and do the same . as a seller of antiques i am entitled to a fair profit with certains means to protect myself from losses if i was in the bargain sale business i would be selling mass produced cds and new books at half.com .
posted on September 29, 2001 12:40:58 PM
What's the big Deal? Reserves are great if you don't want to take a chance on giving your item away! As for the buyer just bid the top dollar you are will to pay and let it go at that. If it doesn't meet the reserve so what,you didn't want to spend that much any way!
posted on September 29, 2001 02:17:48 PMStart something at $400, no reserve, and no one bids. Two weeks later re-list it at $50 with a $400 reserve and it gets 30 bids, and closes out for $500... I've had it happen over and over.
Ditto, been using reserves on higher end items since 97, and have never had a problem finding plenty of buyers willing to bid.
On items under $100 I tend to just start the auction at the price I want/need, items over the $100 mark I use the reserve format.
posted on September 29, 2001 03:11:19 PM
Just a thought...I know many sellers set a reserve to find out high high the bidders are willing to go. Maybe they have something they are unsure of the value of. If the auction ends without meeting reserve, I have seen them relist with a starting price a bit under what the high bid was on the reserve. Could just be a way to protect themselves. If you saw the Limoges set, and it didn't meet reserve, check the sellers auctions...might be relisted now.
posted on September 29, 2001 03:43:43 PM
I sell vintage beads and artisan jewelry made with vintage beads. I only set reserves on my jewelry, and even then I set it at the same price I wholesale it to shops. I simply cannot afford to give away my time and materials if eBay crashes...it's that simple. I have tried listing items for what I really need to get, and it discourages bids more than the reserve does - at least in my particular case.
It only takes a minute to do a proxy bid; I don't see what the big deal is about bidding.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who sets very reasonable reserves out there.
posted on September 29, 2001 04:08:31 PM
It seems some are beginning to understand that auction bidding is not a strictly logical process.
Personally I never bid on reserve auctions. I want to know what the target is. If the target (reserve) is hidden from me, I don't play the game.
As for the buyer (me) being the one missing out, let's just say that I'm always looking for a reason to keep my money in my pocket, because, from a strictly logical standpoint, I don't need anything on eBay.
posted on September 29, 2001 04:27:51 PMI want to know what the target is. If the target (reserve) is hidden from me, I don't play the game.
Go read what mrpotatoheadd said. In a non reserve auction, if there is already a bidder, the target (proxie) is also hidden. Do you only bid if you can get an auction for the opening bid?
posted on September 29, 2001 04:37:10 PM
Currently, I have one item that calls for a 75.00 reserve bid. I have a lot of time and money invested in this item and would like to recoop it and make some profit.
The item counter is high, has 8 days to go, but is only at 1.25. If I hadn't use a reserve and ebay went down in the last 2 hours of the auction, I could loose my shirt. Or I could use another approach and cancel all the bids 5 minutes before the auction closes. The reserve is the open, honest way to do things.
As other posters have indicated, many well known auction houses have used reserves for many years. They do it for the same reason ebayers do.
Sinse it cost NOTHING extra to bid on a reserve, you are only cheating yourself by not doing so.
posted on September 29, 2001 04:46:26 PMSinse it cost NOTHING extra to bid on a reserve, you are only cheating yourself by not doing so
And since it does cost the seller extra to list and auction with a reserve, if they didn't work, the seller would be cheating themselves. I've been selling on eBay since Feb '98, I would have stopped using the reserve format long ago if it didn't result in sales. (and save me from giving away merchandise once in awhile when eBay has "functionality" problems during the final hours of an auction)
posted on September 29, 2001 04:48:02 PM
Nope, sorry I guess I should have explained.
While it's true that on most of the things I've bid on I am the only bidder, the target for me is the current bid plus the required minimum bid increment. If I'm outbid by another's proxy, at least for a nanosecond or so I was the high "winning" bidder. And placing a bid on a non reserve auction is guaranteed to have an impact on the final price, whether or not I'm the winner. With a reserve auction, I might be the lone bidder but not be the winning bidder.
Again, that's just the way I choose to play the game. Spend too much time analyzing it and you'll just give yourself a headache. As for me, my life has not been negatively impacted by this methodology.
posted on September 29, 2001 04:51:57 PM
To those who do not bid on reserve auctions:
I really do want to understand what it is about reserve auctions that you do not like.
As I noted in my examples above, a non-reserve auction which already has a bid is no different than a reserve auction- the total you need to bid in order to win the item can not be determined from the current bid shown. Do you also refuse to bid on an auction unless there have been no bids yet made?
If one cannot explain why the two scenarios I suggested above are different, all I'm left to work with is that there truly is no logic to this decision at all- it makes about as much sense as refusing to bid on an item if the seller's id contains the letter "r".
posted on September 29, 2001 05:06:02 PMMarket value is hard to define in this area,
While this is true in some catagories, it isn't in others. Most of the stuff I put a reserves on (mostly $200 and up) I can predict the final price within 10% provided eBay isn't having "functionality" problems in the final hours of the auction. (Or that an event such as what happened on the 11th doesn't happen). 80 to 90 % of the reserve auctions we put up sell.
posted on September 29, 2001 05:54:25 PM
The other day I bookmarked an auction with a starting bid of $9.99 and it had a reserve.
I just checked on it now and the reserve has been met at $19.99. I am used to buying this item for about $40-$60 and the auction will close tomorrow.
I am not sure if I will be able to get it or not but if I would have assumed the reserve would be high and just ignored it I may lose out on an item that I would regret not bidding on. Why take the chance?
Like others have said, it only takes a few seconds to bid so why not try?
[ edited by kiara on Sep 29, 2001 06:01 PM ]
posted on September 29, 2001 07:58:14 PM
People who don't bid on reserves are often the same people who don't bid when someone doesn't list a shipping price or doesn't include a picture. They also won't bid when something is ten cents over what they think they should pay. They always want it CHEAP and on their terms. They can't deal with uncertainty.
I recently put something like new on reserve with a BIN. It got a lowball bid and then I got an email with about eight questions trying to assure their little worried head I was offering a good deal when the BIN was about 50% of the average going rate. Too late though it was already sold.
posted on September 29, 2001 08:25:14 PM
I pass on reserve auctions. Never found an item I wanted bad enough or was unique enought that I've had to bid against the seller.
I don't argue, I don't rationalize, I simply move on.
posted on September 29, 2001 10:20:26 PM
I've only been a bidder on eBay, not a seller, but I would also agree that reserves don't deter me from bidding. To echo the point mrpotatoheadd has made, I don't see much difference between trying to beat another bidder's proxy and trying to beat the reserve price.
I can recall one reserve auction where I was the first bidder and my opening bid -- the minimum bid -- was the reserve price. I was pleasantly surprised. Seems like maybe the seller didn't know what he was doing in that instance.
RoseBids25cents brings up a good point, though -- sellers who use both a "Buy-it-Now" price and a hidden reserve. It's hard for me to cram both these ideas in my head at the same time. I don't know what logic other people might use, but it makes sense to me to assume that the "Buy-it-Now" price must be the same as the "hidden" reserve price. If the BIN price is higher than what I want to spend, I generally assume that it matches the reserve price, and I won't bid on the auction.
The other situation I don't like is related to atomaset's comment "I know many sellers set a reserve to find out how high the bidders are willing to go." Some months back I bid on a couple of reserve auctions by a specific seller; in both cases, the reserve was not met. In the first, I was high bidder at $50 (my proxy was $80). In the other I was second bidder at $250 (since I was second high bidder this was also my proxy). After the auctions' end I get an email from the seller, offering me the first item for $90 and the second for $500. I ignored the email. A few days later he emails me again, saying OK, how 'bout $65 for the first item, and $400 for the second?
Clearly this seller was 1) trying to avoid eBay fees, and 2) trying to get the absolute maximum price for his items from bidders. As far as "1)" goes, I figure it's eBay's job, not mine, to police their auctions to make sure they get their fees, so I don't feel the need to play "NetCop." But "2)" rankles me. I totally understand a seller putting a reserve on an item to make sure he gets a fair market value for his item -- but putting an outrageous reserve on an item just to flush out a big spender seems dishonest to me -- not really in the spirit of an "auction." The up side is, if the reserve is not met, the high bidder isn't obligated to buy.
(PS. -- In this situation, I jumped on the $65 item, and said thanks, but no thanks to the $400 one. But also, I've not bid on this seller's auctions again.)
I've read that in the early days of eBay -- before my time, computerwise, and before eBay had the option of placing a "reserve" on an auction -- a seller was allowed to place 1 bid on his own item. I much prefer the more above-board process of a reserve price.
[ edited by triplesnack on Sep 29, 2001 10:27 PM ]
posted on September 29, 2001 10:31:37 PM
FYI - In the early days a seller could use a reserve format, AND place one bid on their own auction. Crazy huh?
posted on September 29, 2001 10:35:41 PMThe other situation I don't like is related to atomaset's comment "I know many sellers set a reserve to find out how high the bidders are willing to go."
I never quite understood this logic, either. You will never know how high the winning bidder was willing to go- the high bid will only show one bid increment above the second highest bid.
And if you don't get at least two serious bidders, you won't have the beginning of a clue as to the value of your item.
posted on September 29, 2001 10:57:31 PMCrazy huh? - kiawok
Yes! Thank goodness everything that eBay does now makes sense!!
--------
I never quite understood this logic, either. - mrpotatoheadd
The auction process doesn't necessarily expose the maximum amount people are willing to pay -- but it does flush out potential customers, who -- as in my case -- you can "pitch" with progressively lower amounts till you hit a price point that works. That's not an auction.
[ edited by triplesnack on Sep 29, 2001 10:58 PM ]
posted on September 30, 2001 05:43:00 AM
I don't often use reserves, but most times when I do they are VERY reasonable reserves.
Here's a couple examples of just how reasonable some reserves are.
I listed 2 items recently with reserves.
#1 auction had a reserve of $500, final bid was $975.
#2 auction reserve was $200, final bid was over $1,000.
In both cases I knew that on a decent week these items would go WAY past my reserve, but I still used one just in case I hit an off week. I picked these items up for a song and decided to pass my bargain on to my customers.
Good thing no one was turned off by my reserve format ..........
FYI - Even at the prices these ended at, they were both GREAT bargains for the high bidders. Had a B&M dealer who specialized in these items had them in their shop, they would have been priced at near double the price they ended at on eBay. As it was one of the underbidders was in fact a B&M dealer who saw the potential in both these pieces & did in fact run them both up.
Not all reserve auction sellers are going on a fishing expedition, nor are they looking for top dollar.
Some of us have simply been around long enough to know that once in a while when you hit an 'off' week on eBay you can lose your shorts on a low start non reserve auction format.
In these 2 examples I could have started them at the reserve prices, and no doubt the outcome would have been near the same, but the numerous bids leading up to the reserve being met may have helped the last few bidders to come in & have a look see, which is half the battle on eBay these days.
On the $500 reserve auction & had close to 15 bids before the reserve was met. Only one of those bidders were in the running at the end, and most of them were IMO penny pinching cheapskates looking to make a great score for next to nothing.
For those of you that don't like reserves, try selling a few dozen items in the $250-$2,500 range, then come back and tell me which format works best for sales.
posted on September 30, 2001 06:24:42 AM
I have a question:
Do you include your reserve in the description, so the bidder knows what you expect as a minimum? Or is it better to let the brospective buyer guess when he bids?
