posted on October 4, 2001 09:57:48 PM newKiawok, I couldn't have said it better myself!! LOL And to think you used to pick on me when I got STEAMED about this stuff!!
It's another nail in the antique/collectible seller's coffin.
posted on October 4, 2001 10:26:25 PM new
This is an intersting tidbit about ebay and Half. Makes sense to me that eventually ebay will want the same very tightly controlled system for both sites. Less fee leakage, and that is what is all about.
posted on October 4, 2001 10:33:12 PM new
Smw .... Thanks for the link! Part of me still wants to believe that eBay won't end up exactly like half.com, but it's sure starting to look that way.
posted on October 5, 2001 04:43:04 AM new
Ok, I am a little behind the curve, as I usually do not read the eBay marketing emails.
I have just 'walked through' the eBay tutorials on Checkout and seem to notice one big thing conspiculuosly absent in their details, i.e. buyer email information. Is the buyers email address going to remain hidden from the seller, so all contact has to be through the eBay email system ???
Also, if as a Seller, if I opt not to use the new Checkout 'feature' [why, do I always feel when I hear the word 'feature', I need to bend over and assume the postion??] it looks like it will be quite a bit more complicated for the Buyers to figure out what to do. Especially if now the Buyer is the one who is to initiate the end-of-sale contact..........
I would figure I was paranoid, if I was not sure everyone was out to get me.
posted on October 5, 2001 02:03:34 PM new
Kiawok...you really shouldn't assume that only "retail" sellers" are the ones who can use the new checkout.
I sell ONLY pre-owned merchandise...china, glass, figurines, silver, collectibles, paper ephemera, some toys, antiques. Plus used books on a second account.
Almost EVERY auction I list has a fixed shipping amount that also includes the mandatory insurance. The only time I don't list a fixed shipping amount is when I am selling a dinner service in a number of dutch auctions.
I offer payments through billpoint instant purchase (similar to the checkout), paypal, checks or money order.
Many of my buyers who use one of the two online payment services I offer, pay BEFORE I send them an email...even those who are spending hundreds of dollars.
One of the biggest problems I have is those who use paypal, checks or money orders conveniently "forget" the sales tax. But when they use the billpoint instant payment the tax is automatically added...they can't "forget" it. This new checkout, for those who choose to use it, will give the customer a total which includes any applicable sales tax, making it harder for the customer to "forget".
Right now, pre-checkout, the customer who wins multiple purchases has to wait for an adjusted shipping total from me before he can pay...so I can't see where checkout will be any more difficult for that type of bidder. Same holds true for an international buyer.
I would say we should withold a judgement on checkout until it is rolled out and we try it out. But without trying it we can't tell for sure if it will work or not...or if the customer will or will not like it.
Ebay is giving us a couple of weeks to look it over and give suggestions...constructive suggestions, not knee jerk "it won't work".
One suggestion we should be sending them is that if a seller wants to opt out the form should not show up on the auction page. Another one is to give an additional option under the insurance tab of "insurance included with shipping quote".
I think you are wrong about the buyers...I think many buyers (including those who are spending big money) will like this "feature". It takes away the uncertainity of not being sure what the shipping charge will be...and takes away the possibility of big surprises when the seller says "actual shipping" in the auction and the buyer is asked for an amount the buyer decides is NOT actual shipping.
Frequently, when there are threads here about "excessive shipping", one of the most common suggestions to the buyer on how to avoid the excessive charges is to only buy from sellers who specify the shipping in the auction and avoid those who don't. And the advice to sellers who are having complaints about their shipping charges when they advertise "actual shipping only" is to change to stating the shipping in the ad.
We all agree that the sellers who charge excessive shipping hurt the rest of us. I think we can all agree that shipping charges are one of the biggest complaints from the buyers and one of the biggest things that hurts ALL our sales by driving buyers off ebay. Checkout could help to reduce the complaints about shipping charges.
posted on October 5, 2001 02:46:53 PM new
For the most part, I can't quote shipping...I need the zip code. Can't quote insurance until the auction closes. I never take Billpoint or Paypal. Checkout is not for me.
I have many buyers that can't understand how to leave feedback until "I" explain it to them. Ebay's instructions are incomprehensible to them. Those folks will never decipher this latest gobbledegook.
The folks that do understand and like Checkout will think I'm some kind of crook for not offering it...whether or not it appears in my auction listings.
This is just another eBay promotion of Billpoint...and an attempt to shut out third party providers of all kinds. And, of course, it's the second step on the path to Half.com.
posted on October 5, 2001 02:54:43 PM new
> For the most part, I can't quote shipping...I need the zip code. Can't quote insurance until the auction closes. I never take Billpoint or Paypal. Checkout is not for me.
Why don't you charge for the most expensive zone then refund the difference if you want to? I have a feeling this Checkout feature will only for work for U.S. sellers to domestic locations only. BillPoint doesn't allow International buyers to use the Pay Now feature.
posted on October 5, 2001 02:59:30 PM new
toke: I'm with you. I can't quote shipping either until I have the buyer's zip code. Oh, of course, I could, if I want to go to fixed shipping and gouge my buyers. Those poor people in zones 1 and 2 would get hit hard because I'd have to charge shipping to zone 8! Also, hard to figure insurance before you know what the item brings. Geez. I've started old books at $5.00 that brought over $100. I would then be eating those costs.
Also, what is to keep an international buyer from bidding, winning, filling out the form and expecting the shipping cost that you have pre-entered into your Checkout part of your auction?
Still too many *what-ifs* here to suit me and I don't like having it showing on my auctions if I'm not going to be using it.
Also, you will be sitting around wondering if your buyer is going to fill out the form or whether you need to take the first step and email them for their address so you can figure the shipping.
Also, what will you do when they PayPal you the money, their Checkout email has one address and their PayPal shows another address?
It will save money for the shippers who only sell US, have fixed shipping. Now those of you who sell international, don't be coming here in a month complaining because Checkout is causing you to lose money on your shipping because you asked for it!
posted on October 5, 2001 03:08:01 PM new
Yes, Paintpower.
Not to mention...it won't work. Billpoint is down frequently...relist is down just as often...My eBay, the same...Ipix gives you a virus. I know I've left off a bunch of functions that only work sporadically...but, you get the picture.
They seriously expect me to rely on the eBay system for PAYMENT??? Even if this were all a joke, it wouldn't be funny.
posted on October 5, 2001 04:05:25 PM newOne suggestion we should be sending them is that if a seller wants to opt out the form should not show up on the auction page
Been there, done that, as have hundreds of other sellers by now. I imagine eBay is listening REAL hard to our concerns. Oh ya ...
Almost EVERY auction I list has a fixed shipping amount that also includes the mandatory insurance.
Ditto, but only to buyers who live in Canada & the US. Kinda hard to know what the shipping will be for International customers, and for those customers who are NEW to eBay it will be very confusing.
[i]I think you are wrong about the buyers...I think many buyers (including those who are spending big money) will like this "feature". It takes away the uncertainity of not being sure what the shipping charge will be...and takes away the possibility of big surprises when the seller says "actual shipping" in the
auction and the buyer is asked for an amount the buyer decides is NOT actual shipping.[/i]
Uncertainty? What uncertainty? You & I already state the shipping charge up front,as do many sellers, and those that don't, do you honestly believe the Checkout feature will cause them to change their auction formats?
I hardly doubt it ........
But without trying it we can't tell for sure if it will work or not...or if the customer will or will not like it.
Talk about making assumptions .......
I know what the vast majority of MY buyers like, and Checkout is not going to be one of them. Notice I said majority, which IMO is all that matters.
For the most part your comments don't surprise me Amy, you seem to look forward to all the new & so called improved features eBay tosses our way on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.
I'm sure the marketing geeks at eBay will be happy to hear that.
posted on October 5, 2001 06:46:02 PM new
When E-Bay turns into a Half.com I think I'll just take my stuff to the Senior Citizen Center and sell it.I took in over $100 over there today and didn't have a fancy check-out.
posted on October 5, 2001 06:54:03 PM newHow quickly things change.....
The eBay community is made up of individual buyers and sellers who come to the site to do more than just buy or sell—they have fun, shop around, and get to know each other, for example, by chatting at the eBay Cafe.
Through the bulletin boards, users meet and get to know each other, discuss topics of mutual interest, and petition one another for information. These bulletin boards are public
forums that encourage open communication between users.
eBay becomes a part of users' lifestyles. Many users have created second businesses, or quit day jobs altogether, by selling items on eBay. For hundreds of thousands of others,
eBay is the place to share a passion for items that are special.
The community is also self-policing, and users frequently form "neighborhood watch" groups to help guard against misuse or
violations of site etiquette.
eBay also encourages open and honest communication between the community and the company. Frequently, members of the community organize grassroots movements to improve the environment in which they work and play.
The sense of community is alive and well offline too. In the past few months, eBay users have planned vacations together, chipped in and bought a special item for another user, and have even spent vacation time doing home repairs for a fellow eBay user. We even heard about a group of eBay users in Ohio who are getting together for a Labor Day picnic.
eBay, simply, is the home of a unique online community.
posted on October 5, 2001 07:22:44 PM new
You don't need the buyers address for items that weigh under 5 pounds if the item is sent within the US through the post office by priority or first class.
. I can't quote shipping either until I have the buyer's zip code. Oh, of course, I could, if I want to go to fixed shipping and gouge my buyers
You also can if you weigh the item before listing. Then you can list the shipping amount in the auction. For those items over 5 pounds, then you either quote the furthest rate and refund or quote after the auction ends and explain in the auctionwhy you can't give a shipping quote beforehand.
Toke, I have bee using billpoint since the time it was in beta testing (pre paypal). I can only remeber a couple of times my customers reported problems with it being down....and I can also remember a couple of times that my customers reported they couldn't use paypal because it was down. From my experience, billpoint is reliable (as is paypal).
Kiawok
For the most part your comments don't surprise me Amy, you seem to look forward to all the new & so called improved features eBay tosses our way on a daily/weekly/monthly basis.
sure the marketing geeks at eBay will be happy to hear that.
ROFLMAO!!
I'm not sure who you were trying to insult...me, the ebay marketing personal or both of us.
No, I don't look forward to any changes...nor do I dread them. I'm really pretty indifferent to them. They are going to happen, there is no point in getting riled up about it. When they come I look them over and see how I can adapt to them since it is unlikely they will go away completely, although they may change a little. If at some point I can't sell my merchandise because of the changes I will move on. C'est la vie!
posted on October 5, 2001 08:54:22 PM newYou don't need the buyers address for items that weigh under 5 pounds if the item is sent within the US through the post office by priority or first class.
This is very likely to change with the next postal rate hike. The Postal Service wants to zone all Priority Mail packages weighing more than one pound.
This new system is not workable for multiple auction wins. Some of us offer combined shipping and sell items of varying weights.
The shipping cost per "additional item" depends on the items the buyer happens to win.
A "one size fits all" checkout system just doesn't fit all sellers on eBay. Sellers who chose not to use it should not be forced to display any checkout information in their listings. It's just too confusing for some buyers.
Your information about the USPS is out-dated. They have already announced that all packages over ONE (1) pound will be zone-based shipping next year. So this will affect 90%+ of all items sold on eBay, not just "heavy" items.
Secondly, as a seller you CANNOT simply quote the highest zone rate and refund the difference. If you do that, nobody will bid on your auctions in the first place, since you are "gouging" them. Under the new sky-high rates that go into effect next year, the difference between zone 3 and zone 8 can be 3 or 4 dollars. Even the 2-LB rate will be $5.75 next year for zone 8, and half that for zone 1.
Also, the Checkout "feature" has another fatal flaw: Assume that you sell lightweight items that are all under 1 pound and do not require zone shipping, so you can type that right in to the Checkout. But if one of these items sells for more that $50, you will then have to eat the difference in the insurance, or under-insure the item, or explain to the bidder why you lied to them in your insurance QUOTE.
Ebay will *NOT* allow you to specify a formula for the insurance. Your only two options are "$xx.xx" or "insurance not required". This is a lose-lose proposition for sellers of expensive merchandise, especially if they cannot predict the selling price in advance. Insurance on $50 is only $1.10, but it is (I think) $4.00 on a $251 item. Are you recommending that sellers eat the $2.90 in the name of "goodwill"?
The majority of my buyers prefer to have their magazines sent by Bound Printed Matter. I offer them Priority if they wish, but 90% choose BPM. Now, for BPM you need to know the buyer's zip code to figure the shipping.
Charging at the highest zone and then refunding? What a nightmare! I would be paying PayPal fees on money I would be refunding. Now that sounds REAL smart!
Those people who ship by Priority are really in for a BIG SHOCK when the PO puts through the next rate increase. Everything over 1 pound will require a zip code to figure the shipping. Then what will you do?
Checkout only leaves 2 options: participate and go to fixed shipping or not participate and look like you don't know what you are doing! Great choice huh?
posted on October 6, 2001 08:59:49 AM new
The rate changes the post office is ASKING for are not a reality yet. We don't know if they will get exactly what they are asking for or not. If they do, then every seller will be up the same creek trying to paddle with similar oars. Since we will all be in the same boat it won't take long for the buyers to realize that shipping quotes will have to wait until the seller has the buyers location. Most buyers are reasonable and will not think that the seller is a scammer because he can't give an exact quote before he knows the buyers address.
This new system is not workable for multiple auction wins. Some of us offer combined shipping and sell items of varying weights. The shipping cost per "additional item" depends on the items the buyer happens to win.
I'm one of those who offer combined shipping and sell items of varying weights...and I have used a modified "fixed shipping" for three years, ie- each item is listed with a single dollar amount that the customer will pay for shipping and insurance on that item. Each item has its own "fixed shipping".
I can't see where this new system, if I choose to use it, will make much of a difference in how I handle multiple purchases. I currently use billpoint's instant purchase and there is no provision for multiple purchases with that program. Those who have bought more than one item just ask me to modify the invoice to show the correct total for the combined bids and combined shipping. Checkout has the "dialog box" which allows the buyer and seller to communicate about these type of situations.
On the insurance...most of us have a pretty good idea of what most of our items will sell for. We buy our items with that "sales price" in mind and project our profit margin based on that selling price. I use the insurance rate for the anticipated selling price and it works out fine. If the item goes above the anticipated selling price and pushes the insurance into a higher rate I cover it as a "goodwill gesture"...I am making a higher profit than I anticipated so I feel I can afford to cut my extra profit a buck or two and give the customer a little "thank you" for bidding so high. I'm not saying others have to do this but I have found it works for me.
Secondly, as a seller you CANNOT simply quote the highest zone rate and refund the difference. If you do that, nobody will bid on your auctions in the first place, since you are "gouging" them
That is the way I do it for heavy items right now and no one has accused me of gouging on my shipping yet...and I get plenty of bids. Go figure
Those people who ship by Priority are really in for a BIG SHOCK when the PO puts through the next rate increase. Everything over 1 pound will require a zip code to figure the shipping. Then what will you do?
I will adapt, just like everyone else will have to. Just like I will adapt when ebay starts the checkout feature in what ever form they roll it out in.
Maybe the difference here...and why Kiawok seems to think I "look forward to ebay's changes"...is that I tend to roll with the punches. I try to make the best of the situation...especially one I have little chance of drastically changing. I look for the positive and focus on that rather than focusing on the negatives.
In 43 months of heavy selling on ebay, my way of loking at ALL the changes ebay has made has meant that my business has not suffered one iota because of these so called "onerous" changes. I don't think it is going to be any different with checkout.
And because of my philosophy I have not entered the ranks of those who are disgusted with ebay, I don't feel like ebay is trying to get rid of me, I don't mourn for the "good ol'days", I don't think the ebay changes are going to drive me out of business and I don't get uptight everytime ebay comes up with a new wrinkle in the way things are done. Works for me...can't guarantee it will work for others
Vargas ...I agree it would be better if ebay did not put the checkout form on the auctions of sellers who opt out of it. Hopefully they will modify the program...but if they don't, its "adapt or die" time.
posted on October 6, 2001 10:47:11 AM new
Well stated amy.
I think the newbie buyers will be very happy with the CheckOut feature because it will supply them with more information which will give them a greater sense of security.
I also have had minimal problem with BillPoint and have been getting payments to the tune of $60,000 / month on a regular basis from them.
Again, CheckOut may not seem like the best option for you but EBAY is not likely rolling it out for you then. They are looking to make the bigger sellers happy and it will likely work very well for them. You have the option of figuring out how to use it within your selling process, or not. I would suggest that, even if you don't like it, you probably get ready to use it. The buyers will be looking for it.
posted on October 6, 2001 10:49:28 AM new
Also, the biggest fly at this picnic is going to be the fact that buyers are not required to fill out that form. It is entirely up to the buyer whether they want to fill out the Checkout form or wait for you to email them. Some may ... some won't ... and sellers will be juggling information trying to figure out who they need to make the initial contact with and who has already sent them a Checkout email. Some may just look at Checkout, see no shipping costs there and then PayPal or Billpoint you that amount with no shipping charges.
This was definitely not well thought out. Will be many pitfalls and stopgaps to be worked out ... right during the Christmas selling season.
posted on October 6, 2001 11:00:35 AM new
Passive acceptance never does much to effect change.
Only when users have been up in arms and furiously vocal, has eBay ever paid attention. If we don't like something, we are well advised to complain...loud and long. It's the only shot we have of getting them to change a lousy new "feature" or any of its component parts.
They may want to please the big sellers, but it's the small sellers that give the joint its appeal. I'm confident eBay is well aware of that. Personally, it's never been my dream to be a part of an online Walmart.
posted on October 6, 2001 11:43:35 AM new
People are missing the point...
Ebay is not doing this to be helpful to large corporations, smaller sellers, or even the buyers.
They are doing it because someone else offers the same service via THIRD PARTY. Just like Microsoft, they integrate new concepts (good or bad) into their collective. Ebay doesn't want anyone else making money off ebay, even Andale. They don't want AW, Channeladvisor, Vrane, or any one else controlling or having a part in their business model.
They have done it with photohosting, payment services, counters, links and logos, bulk listers, auction management services, and now checkout services.
Think back a few years... NONE of these things were offered by ebay, and ALL of them were offered by third party providers. Most of the time the third party service were SUPERIOR to ebay's implementation, but that doesn't matter to ebay. They saw a way to keep other people out of their business model and found new sources of revenue.
Now, as a business, I can understand their point of view. I don't agree with it, but I can see it. You don't want a third party service becoming strong and powerful based upon your customer base, and then later on find that third party starts trying to call the shots.
Imagine if paypal.com were the only online payment service and billpoint did not exist? Paypal would be a very powerful voice against ebay anytime it wanted to be if it were the ONLY payment service. As it stands now, ebay is putting itself in a position to say, "No more paypal.com on ebay".
Much like Microsoft, even if you have to offer these services for free, YOU keep control of your OWN market share. Why would any new seller look around for another checkout service when ebay has it BUILT-IN? Keeps people from wandering off and right where ebay wants them.
This is a clear message to third party providers. Ebay may not be able to BLOCK you legally from a lot of stuff, but they can spell your doom. This is not only aimed at third party checkout providers, but at paypal.com. Notice in the checkout that paypal.com will be listed as OTHER, while billpoint.com will be at the top of the list.
You can bet your booties that any other services, or new services will be squarely aimed at third party providers. I am predicting that soon, ebay will curtail paypal.com even further, and perhaps even acquire Andale, since they are the counter providers.
In some ways, it all makes sense. You don't want to confuse new sellers, and have them looking around for services, when you can offer the same services at your site for free or a fee. Sure, large corporations benefit too, and they don't have to design things themselves or god forbid use another service to assist them.
posted on October 6, 2001 12:03:47 PM new
I think the vast majority of us realize this... The why of it is moot, at this point, IMO.
Aside from the inevitable fact that Checkout is sure to be an unbelievable mess as they attempt to implement it - thereby totally screwing up the Xmas season - it simply is totally unacceptable and unworkable for many of us.
Imagine. Relying on the ever-broken eBay for payment. Chilling, isn't it?
posted on October 6, 2001 01:29:56 PM new
Both sellers and buyers don't seem to want this. I started a thread on the Bidding board just to see, and buyers don't want it either! They are sick and tired of automated checkouts and many are saying they won't buy from sellers who offer them. I think the figure is running something like 98% of Ebay users DON'T want Checkout and don't want any mention of it on their auction listings.
posted on October 6, 2001 02:06:50 PM new
I guess my biggest concern is what happens at the end of the day when buyer and seller will not be able to communicate presale questions about a colectable item.
posted on October 6, 2001 02:29:50 PM new
I am really saddened on how things are moving away from the original concept of online auctioning. It used to be exciting to see the HOT ITEMS and how fast the bids just happened. That very thing gets people addicted.
posted on October 7, 2001 01:47:12 AM new
Well, I thought I would go over to eBay Chat boards and see what was going on there. And no I have not looked there before. Thought the the NEWEST FEATURES board would be where Checkout would be discussed. Am I missing something cause all I found there was a bunch of ramblings, similar to a Teenagers party line, no features being discussed at all. Checked out several other board locations (on eBay) and pretty much the same. Are the eBay boards really that useless??
posted on October 7, 2001 05:35:40 AM new
They are actually called Community Help Boards. They are on the left side of the page with the Chat boards you mention.
Check out CHECKOUT help board for more information.
posted on October 7, 2001 06:08:38 AM new
This check out system will also lead to further facilitation of no contact between buyer and seller.
I have 5 eBay sellers now that I buy direct from, and the list is growing. I get the items cheaper than the prices on eBay- no eBay fees paid for the direct sales, no waiting, no bidding. OOPS LEAKAGE !!
Over time, as buyers and sellers become familiar with each other, nearly all eBay sales will end up being done direct. eBay knows it, and wants a system like Half com to thwart it.
The why of it is moot, at this point, IMO.