posted on October 18, 2001 10:49:36 AM
As the owner of a B&M antique store I am seeing what I consider a sad trend with the downturn in the economy. Almost every day, at least one or two people come in to see if I will buy things and they begin to show me their collection of modern "collectibles" they need to sell so they can pay rent or a car payment or keep the electric turned on.
My own brother has a fever with Dept 56 and Budweiser stiens that I can almost understand but I am getting more & more discouraged by the junk that many people have paid large dollars for over the past 10 years thinking they had purchased an investment piece!
From Liberian ten dollar commemorative coins to off-brand "collector plates" to sound-alike pieces (House of Fabrage eggs!) to "limited edition" almost-porcelein sculptures it is becoming harder & harder to tell them their $100+ "investment" is worth $2 at a yard sale.....and even less in my shop.
Some of these people REALLY need the money and it just saddens me that they would have been so much farther ahead to have stuck the $ in a simple passbook account at 3% than bought into the hype of the "Limited edition/collector piece".....
posted on October 18, 2001 11:06:59 AM
I agree with you. I feel for people who put this stuff out at their yardsales w/almost the same prices as they bought them for. If you pass by on a Sunday, they are often still stubbornly refusing to lower the prices and are grumbling how everyone wants something for nothing.
By the way, my grandfather (bless his soul) used to buy me all kinds of coins from the newspaper ads. They're not worth anything, but they bring a smile to my face when I remember how excited he was to give them to me. Now that's a collectible!
posted on October 18, 2001 11:09:44 AM
packrat, I know what you mean. I remember a few years ago when my cousin would drive 50 miles or more just to get the latest beanie baby. There was a group of women who would go to breakfast to discuss what they needed and where they had to go to get them. Now you can find them at yard sales everywhere. I'm glad I don't get the "fever" for the latest trends and must-haves. I just have stuff and lots of it.
posted on October 18, 2001 11:14:00 AM
I wholeheartedly agree except I have no B&M experiences. People know we sell on ebay and many have shown us their "rare valuable collectible" and asked if we'd list it on ebay for them. I do an ebay search and find 345 (eg) listed currently, most without bids. The ones with bids are going for less than $10.
I tactfully decline to list items for other people. I know even if their item sells I'll probably get blamed for the low sell price because they are certain the piece is "limited, rare, vintage and valuable", and I did it wrong.
posted on October 18, 2001 11:20:50 AM
This is definitely a problem with modern collectibles. Even something like buying sheets of stamps at the post office will lead you down this path. You buy lots of stamps, put them away thinking it is an investment, and 15 years down the line, you are being told to either use the stamps as postage, or a dealer will buy at 75-80% of face value, quite a staggering loss as opposed to really investing the money.
Then , there is the manufactured junk that you describe, where you can never get close to the amount they paid for it. Then, you tell them you don't need it or can't use it, or offer them a really low price because you know the true retail value, and then they think you are a cheat and a crook.
People are really good parting with their money I suppose, this probably has been a problem since the creation of money, maybe even before!
posted on October 18, 2001 11:50:58 AM
You are all missing the point. A collectible is not an investment. It is to provide pleasure at the time of acquistion and forming of a collection. That is why once a completion is complete, it is no longer of interest.
This is no different than spending good money for a fancy dinner, a nice vacation, round of golf, etc...
While, it is nice if collections do rise in value because of careful research and acquisition, this is not the norm. The main reason is most collectors do NOT want to spend the time to research and learn what they are collecting. Thus, one should not feel sorry for them.
posted on October 18, 2001 11:58:09 AM
..." or a dealer will buy at 75-80% of face value, quite a staggering loss as opposed to really investing the money."
Not such a "staggering loss" compared to those who invested in NASDAQ stocks over the past few years.
posted on October 18, 2001 12:02:02 PM
I agree that is is a sad state of affairs. My wife was (read...WAS) a Beanie baby junkie. She kept telling me how good of an "investment" they were. And for a brief moment that was true.
I remember when the Beanie Platinum membership kits came out and we were actually able to get or hands on an entire case (10 of them) for cost which was smoething like $8.90 each. She wanted to keep them all. Without her knoweldge I dumped every last one of them on eBay and made something like $900.00 in profit. I was on the couch for a week.
Just before posting this I looked on eBay for that kit. Average proce in mint condition was about $7.00. I also saw one of the people who had purchased theirs from me saying in their auction "how rare and good of an investment this would be".
Collectibles? Buy it becuase you want it. Not as an investment.
posted on October 18, 2001 12:03:20 PM
Yes and no.
Most didn't buy Beanies and Holiday Barbies to "enjoy" them. They buy them because some marketing genius started a feeding frenzy on them.
Just like when Ty said they weren't making any more Beanie Babies... Yeah right. Just drives up the hype.
I love baseball cards -- well I used to. But I always, always, always bought them by the pack, opened them, sorted them, made stacks of "doubles" and really enjoyed them.
But now that they are so "collectible" you cannot buy a pack under $2.99 and it has maybe 10 cards it. Used to get the packs for a NICKEL or a DIME! And then they had 14-15 cards in each.
Anyway, there are many who catch the fever and do whatever they are told to do -- including buying collectibles, reading Oprah's latest book, or voting for Bill Clinton.
posted on October 18, 2001 12:42:19 PM
Commentary: You make a valid point; however, the fact that many of these people are drawn into the HYPE of "limited edition" & similar come-ons is what bothers me. The sellers/manufactures/promoters KNOW they are preying on people with these terms and those same people are flabbergasted to find out that something sold to them as a "collectible" is now worth 4 or 5 cents on the dollar.
Those of us with "collecting fever" have all paid too much for something at one time or another....we may also buy for investment purposes.....we may collect for pure pleasure....but in any of those cases, I seriously doubt if we pay good money for items EXPECTING them to go down by 90% or more in value.
posted on October 18, 2001 12:59:16 PM
A close friend asked me to sell some of her Barbies on eBay and I agreed. She mailed them to me and I took a look at them. I guess she thought they were worth a lot of money, because they were in the box, etc. When I looked them up on eBay, most did not have bids or were only going for a few dollars. I didn't really know what to tell her, but she ended up taking the dolls back.
I found out she was planning to sell the dolls to pay her credit card debt. I found it ironic that the debt was most likely from purchasing the dolls....
posted on October 18, 2001 01:04:58 PM
You want to talk your "HYPE" check out some of the cable channels that sell "collectibles" "limited editions ballcards" Those people should be put off the air. I'm in a b+m shop and people bring them in every day trying to sell them. I tell they to do a return and they say those channels charge a 10% restocking fee. You want to talk about your ripoffs.
mandm50s
posted on October 18, 2001 01:05:39 PM
petertdavis - It is staggering actually. I would not advocate necessarily high risk stocks, but if you put $5000 into an index mutual fund about 15 years ago, even today you would have at least $25,000 - Probably more. If you put that into mint sheets of postage stamps, you might have $3500 or $4000 - That is not staggering?
commentary - I agree with you 100%, I would NEVER advise anyone to use collectibles as an investment tool. However, many people sadly do.
posted on October 18, 2001 01:17:16 PM
I only collect things I like and want to keep. Oddly enough, I've been offered quite a bit more than I paid for several of my "treasures". It's nice to know they are worth something, but I won't sell them because I might not find another.
posted on October 18, 2001 01:31:55 PM
What is sad, too, is how folks now insist their household TRASH is collectible (read: valuable) because it is old. I saw garage sale after garage sale this summer, where dingy, old, dirty CRAPOLA was marked top dollar because "that's old, and collectible".
Well, I'm sorry, but its not!
If I see one more pink-handled egg beater from 1950's or 1960's marked $15.00 I think I will go mad.
In 99.9% of cases, it is old - and that is all it is! Let it go for a quarter, for pete's sake!
Oh, and the Fire King white vases with polka dot bumps on the surface for $25.00 'cause grandma had it. Give me a break!
[ edited by antiquealley on Oct 18, 2001 01:34 PM ]
posted on October 18, 2001 01:34:51 PM
ahc3, I said the past few years, not the past 15 years. Whether people bought beanies or NASDAQ stocks in 1999, they're hurting now.
posted on October 18, 2001 02:03:36 PM
thepackratsattic
I agree with you that these modern collectibles are marketed very well and greatly hyped. However, if you truly serious about collecting something, it is not that much effort to find a trade or hobby journal and discover the truth about such collectibles. But, most collectors do not want to bother. They think by spending lots of money, they automatically join the club of a serious collector. How many of us had to make offers to spouses of estates at about 10% of origial cost for these modern collectible junk?
The funny thing is most of these collectors are well educated and well funded. Most of them are professionals in the medical or legal field. One would think they know better.
I think the worst case I have ever had was to buy from a dealer for about $800 what the original owner spent at around $20,000 in modern collectibles. Hate to think what the dealer gave the estate.
I personally still have my own first purchase of these modern collectible. Cost me a couple of hundred dollars decades ago. I was a kid and on very limited funds. It was a lot of money to me. I always teasure it because it taught me a valueable lesson. Modern collecitbles should only be purchase on the secondary market.
My biggest problem now is when I meet an active modern collectible collector. You feel like screaming at them "STOP!, Don't spend any more on this crap". But, at the same time, I have never want to burst someone's bubble. Figure they are much happier not knowing and only their heirs will get the bad news. But a lot of heirs do not deserve any of the money anyway. There are often in-fighting and most don't care about the estate. Just want to liquidate quickly and get some money. Most trash the family history and remembrances. Seems like there is poetic justice somewhere.
posted on October 18, 2001 02:09:33 PM
By the way, I do not believe there is a trend to the downturn of modern collectibles. As a rule, they always lose value as a function of time and when they come out. Collectibles that rise in value are those that were not heavily promoted or collected.
The only one exception to falling value of modern collectibles that comes to mind is some of the Franklin Mint collectibles. In most cases, the original owner does not lose too much money from the original issue price by simply placing them on ebay.
posted on October 18, 2001 02:29:20 PM
Those $5 and $10 commorativew coins from the American Bank of Liberia are the biggest rip off yet. Yes, they are worth $5 and $10 face value in LIBERIAN currency, which last time I
checked could be anywhere between $0.25 and $0.50.
After all, why would a tiny country in Africa really give a rat's behind about
famous U.S. landmarks and people (JFK jr.)
I'm not trying to offend any people who may be from Liberia or have lived in Liberia, or done time in Liberia....just stating an opinion.
posted on October 18, 2001 03:22:24 PM
This is nothing new because this sort of thing has been going on for years. Call it momentum or whatever you want that draws people into competing with each other for these things but while most of you don't recall this, I can go back to the 60's when collector ceramic liquor bottles were all the rage and people paid a stiff price for Jim Beam bottles. Even the liquor stores were marking thier bottles up way beyong the distillers recommended price. They took up a heck of a lot of room and people considered them "investments". Try and get anything for them now. Then there were Avon bottles which were made in the billions. When these faded, there were more instant collectables and every company in the world turned out "limited edition" and numbered plates.And there were all sorts of similar items. I recall brand liquor water pitchers also. Now I have seen people collecting and putting away McDonald plastic toys stating that they will be worth a lot of money some day. I figure that if you like the stuff, buy it at a reasonable price but do not consider them investments because Instant collector items never are
buyhigh
posted on October 18, 2001 05:49:19 PM
"If I see one more pink-handled egg beater from 1950's or 1960's marked $15.00 I think I will go mad"
LOL! I know exactly what you mean. What gets to me are the yard sale sellers who actually put it on the price tag - "OLD! $15.00". Well, a rusted Prince Albert tobacco tin that's so badly dented it doesn't even stand up is not exactly a collectible
There's a couple in the next town who have at least two sales a year. They've been trying to sell the same Jim Beam bottles - marked at what I assume can only be "book price" - for at least five years now. Ummmmmm... get a clue!!
posted on October 18, 2001 06:14:51 PM
Unfortunately Large companies have found that Shafting Honest folk is profitable - Selling Snake Oil is a growth industry. What else is new ?
posted on October 18, 2001 06:56:46 PM
there is a buyer for almost everything made.jim beam bottles do sell,depends on how much they are asking relative to condition,rarity and age.
also knowing how to promote that particular bottle or snake oil-turkey decanter to someone who just hated turkey would not work.
modern collectibles mass produced in china is not collectible,but then as time goes on,they could,just like the old chinese milifiori imitation paperweights made in 1940s,they are considered collectibles in their own rights.
think of items made in occupied japan.
the problem is retail markup is 100 -300 %,so if someone bot it at 300% markup is not going to see any appreciation.
how things have changed,allthese rusty dented smelly items were bidded up years ago on ebay,first bidder put in max bid of 50,someone comes along and top it with 51-100,then the third one has to top that with 101.
now you are lucky if you can give them away at 20.
when time is good,people dont mind paying full price .
posted on October 18, 2001 07:01:15 PM
I agree wholeheartly that most of these collectibles are rip offs. They are often promoted as having investment potential. There are even some "so called" price guides that indicate past items have gone up in price. In fact, most of them actually trade hands for 10 cents on the dollar in the secondary market.
However,I remember a 60 minutes expose in 1979 on the Franklin Mint. At that time, FM was selling silver ingots (1 oz.) with images embossed on them. The expose showed people bringing the ingots into coin shops and pawn shops, where they were offered 20 cents on the dollar. The joke was on 60 Minutes. A couple of weeks after the expose ran, the Hunt Brothers in Texas tried to corner the silver market. Silver went up from $5 to $50 plus an oz. in a short time.
The Franklin Mint ingots suddenly were a great investment. I remember 60 Minutes had to run a retraction when this happened. Of course, a month or two later, silver was back down to $4.00. Still, shows anything is possible with these items, just don't hold your breath.
posted on October 19, 2001 12:31:17 AM
One of the saddest things I've ever seen was an estate sale I went to.The woman thought she was investing her money for her children and bought thousands of collector plates.There were stacks of them in every room of the house and more laid out on tables.She also had "Price Guides" that showed her plates were going up in value every month.The problem is that the company selling the plates was also the publisher of the "Price Guides" by the way it's the same deal with Beany Baby "Price Guides".I don't know how much she paid for the plates but the estate sale people had them priced between five and twenty dollars each and no one was buying them.
Speaking of Beanies,once when the local McDonalds stores were promoting a new line of Happy Meal Beanies there was a line around the building to buy them at one store but if you drove across town to another McDonalds they had the same toys but no line at all to buy them.
posted on October 19, 2001 01:26:53 AM
I totally agree with the Liberian ten dollar commemorative coins and the commercial that promotes it. The company that promotes these "collectibles" spends loads of money to create this 60 second farse to see if you are going to bite.
Your're watching TV and all of the sudden a commercial comes on and patriotic music starts playing. The camera shows the very nice looking coin, and the smoooooth voice announcer starts........
We are proud to offer for a limited time only this striking coin which is legal tender from the country of Liberia. This coin will be offered for a limited time only and after that, never be offered again. Don't miss this amazing opportunity to own this beautiful collectible coin. This absolutley magnificent piece is crafted in the highest standards of minting and surely will be sought after for years to come.
The camera then shows the Grandfather giving the coin to the 10 year old grandson, and the grandson's eyes light up, and the grandfather bears a huge smile.
The announcer then continues on to say, We expect the demand for this outstanding coin to be very high, so we are forced to set a limit of 3 coins per household. If you are interested in this limited edition collectible then you must act now. Once it's gone, there will be no more offered. So please call the number on the bottom of your screen now!
Well did I get it right? They run this so often you can almost recite it word for word. They make it sound very enticing and a chance for anyone to have a true collectible at a bargain basement price.
What really gets me is the people who think that any Life of Look magazine is worth $25.00 because it has a picture of JFK, Elvis, or Marilynn on it. GET REAL! There were hundreds of thousands of these printed. The same thing goes for when a famous singer dies. Within a 2 week period, the promoters are selling CD's and tapes for "the legendary" or "the incomprimable" singer. People think because these people have died, their music will be valuable.
Oh! one more thing. Please give me the addresses of the garage sales with the $15.00 hand beater with the pink handle. I COLLECT THEM!
posted on October 19, 2001 04:23:06 AM
The one that always gets me are various 'limited' 'collector' plates. Why are they 'limited'. They're 'limited' to how many are made in a "14-day firing period"!!!
Wow!! And how many million can they make in 14 days!!! Geez!
posted on October 19, 2001 08:00:51 AM
Morning again! I guess part of the problem is that who would have thought things like Hot Wheels, Matchbox cars, and other MASS produced items from the 60's would have had some of the values they carry today? Granted, there is an OUTSIDE chance that as a lot of these modern collectibles find their way into trashcans & the landfills, that in 25 or 30 years there may be some increase in value...possibly even a decent profit.
What is bothering me was expressed well above: These items are being hyped as having IMMEDIATE value and many unsuspecting people buy into the idea that the $10 Liberian commemorative or $100 "almost porcelein", "limited" edition, elephant-stomping-an-aardvark-to-death sculpture can be READILY sold for what they paid or more!
The silver-tongued advertisments are at best, misrepresentation; and border on outright fraud!
As far as the price guides....I like to remind people that come into the shop that there is a reason they are called: "GUIDES"
