posted on October 19, 2001 09:09:08 AM
I often wonder about those eBay buyers I sold Beanies to as "investments".
I remember one buyer flatly stated in his email that the 2 Beanies he bought from me for $750 was an "investment". What could they have been thinking ?? My ads never mentioned value of the Beanies as an investment, just a description.
I also remember a neighbor that thought I was crazy for selling my Beanies. She bought an $800 curio corner cabinet to display hers in. At that time, a few of the Beanies she had were worth more than the cabinet. Now all of her Beanies aren't even worth the shipping charge for the cabinet !
posted on October 19, 2001 10:27:47 AM
As I like to say, "The guide book isn't buying anything." An item is worth what you can get for it in a proper venue.
posted on October 19, 2001 10:54:42 AM
Right now, you can't even get people to pay the list price for the guide books.....but they expect THEIR item to be worth whatever those books say....or whatever a "similar" one on The Roadshow was appraised at!!
posted on October 19, 2001 10:55:47 AM
I remember overhearing a woman at a Flea Market talking about her Beanie collection. The gist of her remarks included how she was hoping her collection would send her grandchildren to college.
Sad. But, at the same time, come on! Did anyone with a fair amount of common sense really think some felt and a few pellets of styrofoam added up to a lasting collectible with enduring value? Talk about being caught up in a frenzy!
Just like stocks and antiques...buy quality. Prices may go up and down but quality lasts.
posted on October 19, 2001 11:43:49 AM
This is not only a trend for new collectibles. Sometimes the market for certain quality vintage collectibles goes soft too.
I remember getting stunning prices for a line of vintage items that I used to be very involved with. Prices have fallen. I still sell the occasional piece in this category, but I am usually dissapointed in the results. Time to get into something else.
You can only ride a wave so long, then it smooths out.
posted on October 19, 2001 12:15:31 PM
This is a bit "off the thread", but does pertain to stupid "investments" people make. I am an eBay power-seller and sell a lot on commission for other people. About a year ago, I got a call from a client of mine who had some loose diamonds that she wanted me to sell for her on eBay. She and her husband had purchased these stones about 20 years ago as an investment and were told by the dealer that this was a "sure-thing". She had all the paperwork to accompany these stones, and they were very good stones. However, they were small, the largest one being less than half a carat. When I asked how much money she wanted for them, she said, "Well, we paid $5000 for the big one. We paid over $9000 for the whole lot. I'd like to double my money." I nearly choked. This poor (read "stupid" woman had invested nearly $10,000 20 years ago on diamonds that today are worth maybe $2000. At the time of her original purchase, they probably were only worth about $1000. I had to be the bearer of very bad tidings. She became incensed when I told her I would be lucky to sell the whole lot for 1/10th of her original purchase price. I lost a client, but I'm sure she still has her diamonds...
posted on October 19, 2001 01:52:25 PM
I agree with the poster on the Beanie Babies. It's a piece of cloth with foam pellets inside. They were a cute design and people liked them. The more people liked them, the more variety came out. To encourage the market to rise, they announced limited editions and played them up with loads of hype and publicity.
Hmmmmm. The Beanie lover's brain is now in overdrive. If the Maple Bear sells for $300.00, then maybe the ones that I bought for $10.00 will also. And the Beanie craze is full speed ahead. After the market start to hit a valley, they announce the ending of the beloved Beanie Baby. What a shot in the arm for the Company that make they. Especially when they announce the end will come in about 2 years. If my memory serves me correctly, this even made the news on the major news networks. I'll bet there are still people that think they are still worth the money they paid and others who believe that the ten dollar Beanie will bring more in the future.
posted on October 19, 2001 02:20:57 PM
sprtqust - Wren't diamonds pushed as an investment at a period when there was double digit inflation with corresponding interest rates and when real esate sales & the stock market were on the decline? Since DeBeers controls the sale of diamonds (rough) and your client bought these at an inflated retail price and now has to sell them wholesale, wonder what they were thinking OR were they? Diamonds are not rare.
buyhigh
posted on October 19, 2001 02:32:06 PM
The trouble with even antique "quality" items is that what you prize might be distained by your children. I remember one woman I came in contact with complaining that she had collected all this pattern glass and her daughter to whom she planned on leaving it to has absolutely no interest. She collects pottery. Believe that if the junk item evokes nostalgia from ones childhood and was played with or? and most wound up in the trash it should command a decent price but you have to have more people around who want it than items available. I think those old tin windup toys would be a good example.
buyhigh
posted on October 19, 2001 03:42:26 PM
Great thread!
I had the 'beanie fever' myself, but I did it just for the fun of finding them all. I knew in a few years they wouldn't be worth anything. I'm selling some back now just because I'm tired of looking at them. LOL.
posted on October 20, 2001 01:04:01 AM
I LOVE this topic. I have 2 things to add. First, there was a cartoon a while ago. It showed a kid cutting open a Beanie Baby and inside there were pellets made from Pogs. The comment was, "What a country, where one fad eats another."
I collect and am a dealer in Olympic pins. It is AMAZING how regular the market in them is. 10 years before the games (right now I am talking about the 2012 summer games) different cities come out with pins for their bid for the games. 7 years before, the games are awarded (This being 2001, they just gave 2008 to Beijing) and the first pins become available. 6 years to go and 4 years to go, very few pins are available, and the people who want them will pay almost any price. 3 years to go, the license to make pins for the games kicks into full effect and dozens of new designs are kicked out every month (all sell out). The Locals who collect this stuff are running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to find each pin. Some reach several hundred dollars each. At this time something catches the fancy of the local collectors and becomes the thing to get. In Sydney, it was count down pins (the 1000 day count down pin would go for $800 aus or about $500 US), in Salt Lake it is Food pins (the original green jello pin was $250, and can still get $150 if you find the right sucker (read customer)). 2 years to go, the dozens a month, becomes a hundred a month. The locals are overwhelmed as their hobby/investment is now $1000 to $2000 a month just to keep up with the retail pins, to say nothing of the internal pins for the Organizing committee, police departments, so on. At this time the wheels start to come off the waggon. Prices start to drop as people realize that trying to get them all is not going to happen. The games come, prices spike again, but the things that were popular (those 1000 day countdown pins bought to sell to the rich Americans) are all over the place. Everyone who bought one and put it in a drawer 1000 days before the games has taken it out, and is wearing it around. Everyone who wants that pin gets it. The price drops like a stone, but those $5 pins keep on selling and selling (good thing I bought them for $2 as people realized that having 24 pins with a hot dog on it was not a great idea). Funny thing, when you meet someone from Kroogistan or someplace like that, they are just as happy with a pin of a clown as they are with a 1000 day to go countdown pin. Usually I will give them 3 or 4 clowns, or as many as they want, since the Kroogistan pin sells for $100. The really funny thing about this is that back in 1995, I TOLD the people in SLC what was going to happen, and they didn't believe me. in 1998, I TOLD the people in Sydney what was going to happen, and they didn't believe me. in 1993 I told the People in Atlanta what was going to happen, and they didn't believe me. Ah well, Truth hurts, but it is profitable if you know how the game turns. My belief is that if I tell them that the pin will be worth nothing in 10 years, and they still want to give me $350, my karma is protected by their IQ.
posted on October 20, 2001 05:36:17 AM
Can't forget all the hype the past two years in the media etc. about how well people were doing on eBay.
When I first starting selling on eBay back in 1999 I NEVER had a problem finding nice stuff to list. Whether it was at a yard sale or a Thrift Store/Goodwill. THEN people who made big bucks on a book or painting or card or a Beanie started bragging and boom, we have everyone and their grandma thinking they could list or sell their "collectible" and make a huge profit.
I went from being able to find super stuff to going to these same places only to find people hiking up the prices to what they think they could make from them according to eBay. My stepfather is one example. He had a bunch of "antiques" and thought he could make a killing, looked them up on eBay and moaned to me that they do horrible.
My local libraries quit having book sales and now have "stores" in the library with used books priced according to what they are going for on eBay (or what they THINK some sucker who comes in will think they are going for on the net).
posted on October 20, 2001 07:36:24 AM
At some point most collectors realize that the problem with collecting anything is that you typically buy at retail prices and sell at wholesale prices...
Collections of anything are generally a poor investment. When something becomes popular and everyone "must have it", retail prices go up. Once the popularity ends and people have lost interest in their collections, prices go down and anyone wishing to buy it from you generally will only pay wholesale value for the item. Since the wholesale value represents only a fraction of the current retail value, the collector usually faces a huge loss in dollar value.
About the only way that a collection becomes a good investment is if someone was collecting it before it became popular...
I buy and sell stamps as part of a hobby of stamp collecting. I buy larger collections, save just one or two stamps, and then sell the rest on eBay. I don't normally make any money, but I usually recover enough from my sales so that the price I paid for the one or two stamps that I save is neglible. My collection grows slowly and I keep the cost of my "investment" down. If and when I ever sell my collection, chances are I will more than recover my original cost...
One of the worst reasons to start a collection is because the prices are going up rapidly. Any wise collector realizes that this is the time to stay out of the market place...
posted on October 20, 2001 08:16:24 AM
My step Mother was one who has a tremendous collection of "All God's Children" and expected to be able to get the prices they publish in a slick glossy color price guide they put out. It is tempting to go into court with these price guides as a clear case of fraud when they are used as a selling aid.
I worked with a man years ago who had quite a bit of unused wharehouse space and money to invest and he was very savy about markets and commodities. He did not buy futures he actually bought and took delivery on a huge amount of hi grade plywood one summer expecting a shortage the next year and in the next 2 to 3 years sold it for about double what he paid for it. I learned a lot from that man.
posted on October 20, 2001 10:10:54 AM
Personally I'm collecting debts to pass on to my child. Figure that's atleast something that will go up in value.
posted on October 20, 2001 11:42:20 AM
This thread reminds me of a few garage sales that I've been to where the sellers are still pricing some of their things or telling others why their stuff is priced so high. They price it according to ebay. But lo and behold I look in another corner where the stuff they think isn't worth a dime is. I've found more bargains in those corners. Like a tablecloth for 25 cents that I sold for $35 after destaining it or the bakelite bracelet I bought for 25 cents and will sell for much more or the bakelite corn holders I sold for $75. Knowlege is power in this field and it takes a long time to get educated on everything.
I used to want to puke when I had a 9 to 5 job and they were talking about how valuable their beanies were. I never tried to tell them differently because they were to stubborn to believe otherwise.
posted on October 20, 2001 07:35:54 PM
Of course, we forgot the "biggest" sham artists of all time in "Modern Collectables":
The USPS and the US Mint.
As a former Numismatic (am I spelling that right?) I am sickened by the State Quarter Program, and as a Student of Hawaiian Revenues, abit "tickled" with the USPS offerings since 1990.
Of course, I also have a hatred of those painted American Silver Eagles and a $39.95 price tag.
And, I have a distrust now in donations made to the folks of the WTC bombings by "third" parties.
:\\\\\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
posted on October 21, 2001 01:43:26 AM
Yes! The state quarter collection is another good one. Let's see, a printing company will offer a cardboard display holders for these quarters. Since the quarters are such a novelty, the public will snatch them up FAST! As soon a new quarter comes out, the public will want it. With this in mind the printing company knows that there must be an attractive way to display they, so they manufactute and print the display case. They run enticing ads on TV offering them for $19.95, and the money starts rolling in. Every few months, or whenever, (I really don't know) the US Mint offers a new quarter, everyone scampers off to the bank to buy a couple for their collection. At the end of 6 years or so they will have invested $32.45. The cost of the money kept and the cost of the board.
However, these people don't realize that their quarters are just a VERY SMALL fraction of the quarters minted. The board they spent 20 bucks for is now being sold at closeout retailers for $5.00. The quarters will never gain any real value. There are too many around. They will only LOOSE VALUE through infaltion. At 3 percent inflation, the $12.50 in quarters will have a value of $9.23 in ten years in spendable worth. Your 20 dollar board is now worth a quarter at your summer garage sale on a warm dry day.
You total "investment" that you originally paid $32.45 is now worth about $9.45.
These quarter might be a fun novelty for a child to collect, and in my opinion that's about all. Unless of course you want to will them to your great-great-great-great grandchildren's kids!
posted on October 21, 2001 07:48:59 AM
Hey let's not be too harsh on the hobby of collecting here! Ive collected a lot of things over the years and have many of these items displayed in my house.
I've also had a lot of fun working on the state quarters with my niece, and I think she has learned a lot from the experience.
I collect for the sheer fun of it, and never had any thoughts that these items would see me through my retirement. The only investments I've ever made were into mutual funds and an IRA account. Never Pez or beanie babies - how ridiculous does that sound?
There's nothing wrong with collectibles, there are just greedy people.
posted on October 21, 2001 10:12:26 AM
Even if you "will them to your great-great-great-great grandchildren's kids" the state quarters will not be of any great value. Take a look, sometime, at what common Roman coins sell for. Yes, they may be close to two thousand years old, but you can buy them by the dozen for a few dollars. These state quarters are made in the BILLIONS, that is with a B. The "rare" ones were made in the hundreds of millions, I believe six hundred million was the lowest mintage. These will NEVER be really rare, just "rare" in the ebay sense of the word.
OTOH, they will always be worth a quarter. So, if you buy a roll at your bank, you will always have ten bucks of quarters. Big difference with the beanies, I think. Can't put your beanies in the soda machine and get a coke next year when you're broke and thirsty.
And yes, twenty bucks for a cardboard holder that wholesales for a dollar is a really good mark up. Most honest coin dealers are selling them far cheaper. Never buy anything that sells on a TV commercial.
posted on October 21, 2001 10:55:18 AM
I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed reading this thread.
I think the urge to collect something is a fairly common human compulsion/need and as addictive as gambling when visions of dollar signs are held out tantillizingly by promotors.
I fill my urge to collect now by buying different perennial flowers for my garden. It's a sure-fire "investment" because as the flowers grow, form large clumps and mature over the years, the pleasure value increases.
posted on October 21, 2001 10:59:36 AM
Oh!! I collect different flowers also!! I have traded on Gardenweb also and have about 200 different varieties now. I'm getting a greenhouse this winter.
I have a special fondness for getting the seeds off the plant too. . .I'm fidgety and it lets me keep my hands busy cleaning them out of the seed pods.
posted on October 22, 2001 09:01:50 AM
Ahhhhh yes....the "state quarter" craze! I hadn't even thought about that one yet. I can only imagine what it will be like in 2008 when people try selling their "complete collections" of those!! "But I have ALL of them! They HAVE to be worth a lot more than $12.50!!" I have one customer who BRAGS that he has over $600 worth of them already! You just learn to smile, nod, and pray he starts buying the Bradford plates or Budweiser steins that are collecting dust on the back shelves of the shop!
It is all I can do to keep a straight face when someone asks if I am interested in buying their Beannie collection!! Sorry....not into felt & styro pellets this year!
While some of this can be chalked up to "good marketing" by the manufacturers, where DOES it cross the line from hype to fraud?
posted on October 22, 2001 11:03:35 AM
If your customer has $600 in quarters that he got from his bank at face value, then he's okay. All he'll lose is whatever interest he may have earned if the money was invested, and whatever the inflation rate was. Of course, if he would have otherwise had it in NASDAQ stocks, state quarters don't look too bad in comparison right now.
OTOH, if he bought them from some TV ad, or paid twenty to fifty dollars for a roll on ebay, or bought the "mini-bags" that the mint is selling, then he's likely to not get back what he invested.
NOBODY should view the state quarters as an investment. The best reason I see people collecting them is as an educational tool for the youngsters. They can learn a bit about the money, and the states, and the nation's history. If done well, it can be a fairly inexpensive eductional experience.
OTOH, beanies are just beanies.
posted on October 22, 2001 11:06:30 AM
I think we need to differentiate between people who collect things and people who acquire things. Collectors usually collect because they love whatever it is that they're getting; acquirers, it seems to me, are in it for the investment potential.
I'm a collector. Books, decorative boxes, paperweights. I could never part with what I've collected; it would kill me.
Concerning Beanies, until her death in 1999, my mother put a stuffed animal in my sister's and my stockings each Christmas; this went on far past the age when we should have been getting stockings, but it was a tradition and we did one for her, too. Some years ago she put cute stuffed bears in each of our stockings. They turned out to be the first, or among the first, Beanies. My sister and I sold them for $900 each before the bottom fell out of the Beanie market.
posted on October 22, 2001 01:03:37 PM
WISEGIRL: Good point on the "collecting/aquiring" viewpoint! I realize that I myself have done BOTH at times. With any luck, the "aquisitions" will outweigh the money I have in the "collecting"...hehehehe!
Literally within minutes of my earlier post, I had a phone call from a lady who had been "taught to collect those GOOD plates about 12 or 15 years ago....." and now she was wanting to sell them. Turns out she has about 45 or 50 of those "limited editions" that came with the "price guides" to show what they should be worth IF they go up like the others!!!! Was polite but honest & told her she will probably have difficulty finding someone to give her much for them....
...."but I was always led to believe they would be worth MORE than I bought them for......"
woman had invested nearly $10,000 20 years ago on diamonds that today are worth maybe $2000. At the time of her original purchase, they probably were only worth about $1000. I had to be the bearer of very bad tidings. She became incensed when I told her I would be lucky to sell the whole lot for 1/10th of her original purchase price. I lost a client, but I'm sure she still has her diamonds...
