posted on October 23, 2001 07:04:11 AM
first negging the seller does not seal the fate of the transaction,seller and buyer should continue to resolve the dispute.
the buyer could be using her judgment not to return the goods as she said the seller has written a long letter and email her everyday ,sad but true,when you buy from individual and send payment,the money could be gone already to pay bills,to do whatever.
but without returning the item,she has no way of recovering the loss or partial loss with ebay insurance or credit card company.
when i see something for sale on ebay from overseas seller ,i always remind myself shipping is more and if the transaction does not pan out,return postage cost more and dont mean to sound uppity,but the us dollar is still strong compared to other currencies,an overseas seller is less willing to refund in us dollars.
in some parts of the world,hoarding us dollar is like hoarding gold,there is a black market value for us currency.
posted on October 23, 2001 07:29:56 AM
I think you owe PayPal a public apology.
It was not their fault that you failed to follow instructions, failed to ask questions before you bid, failed to use the 60 days properly (returning the saddle, etc), failed to try to file through ebay's insurance, and on and on.
Your story here does not jive. First you said it was the wrong size and the seller wanted pictures (which I assume you refused to send) and then said billets were resewn.
Then you said "Whole time I get 5 email a week from seller."
Sure you did, he wanted to resolve it. Did you answer any or were you thinking that PayPal was the mediator? They're not, you know. eBay provides square trade for that service, but then you would have had to pay $15.
You go on with, "The seller was so irrational with me in emails. I could not trust him. He admitted he made the mistake."
He admitted he made the mistake! Right then and there you should have returned the darn saddle and gotten a refund from the seller. Who was the irrational one in this case?
Then you said "They could of gave me instructions of what to do to get my money back. I do belive they were unfair to the seller as well as to me on this deal."
They told you what to do! They told you to mail the saddle back and you refused. Where is it their fault?
You also say you want the seller to stop hounding you. What is he doing? Is he asking for his saddle back? You are the problem, not the solution here. You have the saddle, you've had both accounts restricted (why yours is, I don't know) and you want the seller to quit hounding you. Therefore it seems to me you want the money back AND the saddle, which might be usable on another horse that doesn't buck. Sounds like you need to train your horse, not get a new saddle
The $7? Most likely, those are the fees your seller had to pay PayPal for accepting your payment.
Did you even try to call your seller on the phone? I'll bet you didn't do everything you could to get your money back, because you didn't want to pay shipping back to the seller. Because you didn't want to spend $36 to send the saddle back to the seller, you've lost much more than that and now have lost use of your PayPal account and he's out the use of his as well.
Yes, PayPal does refund if you follow their instructions and do it in a timely manner. 60+ days is not timely. They have rules just like any other site does. Perhaps you need to read them some day.
wowwow, you said "first negging the seller does not seal the fate of the transaction, seller and buyer should continue to resolve the dispute."
You've got to be kidding right? A negative closes the door to any future negotiations. That's a well known fact at ebay.
I noticed that, too. First it was wrong size, then junk. Changing stories.
Resewn billets...was this advertised as a NEW or USED saddle? Was the resewn billets mentioned? I've had billets resewn (about to have some done here in the next month). If they are properly sewn to the saddle, it's not a problem. And, yes, my daughter's horse bucks as well.
posted on October 23, 2001 08:19:48 AM
negging the seller is like badmouthing a retailer in the public,it does not mean the end of the dispute.
if it were so easy ,then i welcome every one to neg me so i dont have to refund or resolve any big ticket item.
just think -sell afew high ticket items,while the buyers are negging me,i am having a pina colada on the riviera!
emotions aside,a seller still needs to resolve the issue.
say a customer comes back to tiffany,cartier,neiman marcus and lost her temper and start swearing and calling the store a scam etc,does that mean the store does not have to accept her returns and refund her money??given of course she did buy the item at the store,shows a receipt and returning the item in same condition.
if the store has a return policy,if it misrepresents the item,it has to deal with the issue irregardless of how the buyer behaves emotionally
posted on October 23, 2001 08:40:11 AM
wowwow, didn't you have another ID to post here not too long ago? You sound like another user; he had the same kind of info you do.
I believe the seller is trying to work this out, e-mails 5 days a week; is hounding the heck out of the bidder (as he stated); and the bidder is sick of him?? The bidder has his saddle; the seller can't get his money out of PayPal and the bidder is complaining.
Something is very wrong with this picture. The negative sealed the fate.
say a customer comes back to tiffany, cartier, neiman marcus and lost her temper and start swearing and calling the store a scam etc, does that mean the store does not have to accept her returns and refund her money?? given of course she did buy the item at the store,shows a receipt and returning the item in same condition. if the store has a return policy, if it misrepresents the item, it has to deal with the issue irregardless of how the buyer behaves emotionally
This is an auction, not a brick and mortar store. No the store does not have to refund, the store can have the person removed by security or the police. It's their right. No store has a refund policy that lasts over 60 days. If you will read all of the poster's complaints (I realize they change with each post) you will see the seller asked for pictures, meaning they want to see what's wrong before they okay a refund. That's perfectly acceptable when running auctions. Tiffany, Cartiers, Neiman Marcus, Lord & Taylor, Bloomingdales, Macy's, Saks Fifth Avenue would not refund money without first having their item back! Not even Wal-Mart would do that. I went to the local convenience store the other day and asked for a refund and they asked for the product back! The nerve, right? Aren't I entitled to have my money back when I ask? I had the receipt! This bidder wants his money refunded but doesn't want to send the saddle back to the seller.
Questions - did the seller in this case have a refund policy? Why didn't the bidder send the pictures? Why did the bidder tell the seller the saddle was too small, when his actual complaint was the billets were resewn?
You don't even want to know my personal opinion of the bidder in this case.
[ edited by jmho2 on Oct 23, 2001 08:41 AM ]
posted on October 23, 2001 09:16:34 AM
a store like neiman ,macy,cartier etc has to refund irregardless of customer behavior.she may be removed by security or police off the premise,but that has nothing to do with the merchandise itself.
i know some retailers get pissed and refused to refund or use as an excuse not to refund.
two separate issues here-bad hehavior and disputed merchandise.
stores with good management usually will ask the manager to intervene and speak calmly and deal with emotional customer.
in an auction,we are dealing with individual and we all hide hehind this pc and temperature does flare.
buyer is saying it is resewn,it is trashy and worse than her 25 years old stuff and it is wrong size,all are valid points,please remember most of us are not awarding winning journalists and may just spill a few facts at a time,this is not a court room but a posting board.
she cannot and will not spend more money shipping it back .
so now she has a dilemma,no return,no chargeback.
has she tried negotiating a lower sales price,like instead of returning,keep the item and get a partial refund or rebate.
there are zillion of cases like this on ebay,yahoo,amzn auctions ,i think it has to do with buying item sight unseen and dealing with individual.
buyer cannot examine the merchandise but enticed by the lower price,so she goes for it.
seller pockets the money and refused to part with it,a few hundred dollars is a nice piece of change,some sellers need the money to pay rent.buy food or repair their car or see a doctor.
why would all these buyers keep forking money over to romanian russian nigerian sellers?? for us made laptops??
they never blame themselves ,they come to this board and cry and cry and cry and look for sympathy or class action suits!
the sooner ebay,amzn and yahoo closed all these auction sites and have shops where sellers need to have merchant account and show they are serious about retailing ,the better we all are.
posted on October 23, 2001 10:27:27 AM
Looking at the 2 threads on this (the other one is in the PayPal Forum), I've pieced together some info.
Buyer says:
7/25 Purchased saddle & paid w/PayPal
8/13 Filed complaint w/PP because "was tired of run around from seller".
I don't know where the buyer lives but he says the seller is in Canada. Unless they are right across the border from each other AND the seller shipped it right the next day, then there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of time between the buyer getting this item & filing a complaint w/PayPal.
Buyer says:
Saddle was wrong size.
Seller asked for pictures (probably to verify it was his saddle)
Seller admitted mistake & offered a $50 rebate (this is from postings in PP Forum)
Buyer wants his money back instead so files complaint w/PayPal.
Somehow the complaint has evolved from "it was the wrong size" to "it's junk".
Another piece of the puzzle we don't have here is what the seller's TOS were. Did they offer refunds and, if so, under what conditions. Or were all sales final.
Over in the PayPal Forum buyer said he'd "made several trips carrying this 16lb package to the post office."
Now I have to wonder why he made "several" trips to the PO if he never intended to ship this back? Wouldn't ONE have been enough to determine the shipping cost?
posted on October 23, 2001 12:58:39 PM
given the flea market environment of ebay and it has been like this since day one,bidders are better off to keep this in mind before they bid-anything listed on ebay,take it with a grain of salt,be ready to lose when it does not pan out and be willing to get stuck with the merchandise or worse lose if the seller skips town.
bidders just merrily send payments to every corner of the world as if all the ebay sellers are offshoots of neiman,macy,nordstrom,walmart,tiffany,christie etc.
even your most trustworthy sellers can cheat you too!!
posted on October 23, 2001 02:30:21 PM
WOW, I believe the title should be: " Horse Feathers." Can afford $230.00 for a saddle and shipping to Canada. Then can't afford 36.00 to return, but recieved a $230.00 refund from paypal. Maybe the title should be
B.S.
This is from me, a person that is not a Paypal "friend."
posted on October 23, 2001 03:25:18 PM
may be 230 is all she has.
say i were the buyer and i have been wearing this saddle for 25 years and would like a better one.
i spotted this one from canada on ebay and the price is right aka affordable,230 with shipping .
when it turns out it is wrong size,resewn and worse than the one i have now,i am very disappointed.
where does it put me?not any better than the 25 years old saddle i have right now.
may be all my money is spent,i just dont have 36 dollars to return a piece of junk,may be i need that 36 dollars for grocery or gas for my car.
we all know why we are shopping on ebay,to stretch that dollar,if i have tons of money,i would have browse the neiman marcus xmas catalog and order direct.
seller offers 50 dollars refund,i think she should get more ,like 100 or more.
Ah if you file a complaint with pay pal on a seller that sent wrong item. Please let me know what you are suppose to do. thanks you. in advance. Since I was waiting for instructions from pay pal. And did not receive any would like to hear from you what steps a bidder that is unhappy with item sent is suspose to do. Thank you.
to all
If I saw this item in person would NEVER of bid on it. as soon as opened box, saw wrong size, horrible conditon. Not worht the shipping. I was trying not to neg person just get my money back. The seller harrased me so much. 5 emails a day 500 word letter as to why I was stuck with item. I went to ebay and pay pal to get my money back.
The reason I posted on this thread is to let others bidders know they are not safe using pay pal.
posted on October 23, 2001 05:34:22 PM
i think the message should not be paypal but ebay,ebay provides a venue for many sellers to win a small lottery.
seller probably find this in some basement for 25 dollars or less,and he got 200 for it.
posted on October 23, 2001 05:36:01 PM
Hi happyday21,
Our Buyer Complaint Process, as well as our terms of use, does mention that we do not cover merchandise quality disputes. These items are listed at venues entirely separate from PayPal, and we have no way to validate what is posted by an individual party for sale.
Can you advise me what would have happened if you paid with a check or money order? Would you have gone to the companies and asked them to contact the seller because you are unhappy with the merchandise? I believe they would have advised you to work the issue out with the seller.
Believe me, I am not being crass in my response. I am just trying to point out our limitations about getting involved in a dispute that is between two individual parties.
posted on October 23, 2001 06:11:27 PM
Eventer I wanted a 17.5 saddle that the ebay ad stated. seller sent a 18.. wrong size. Period.
paypaldamon
when I filed my complaint to pay pal on 8/13 I was lead to belive that if the seller went me some thing different then the correct item as advertized in ebay listing, I had a case.
Since the seller stated one size and sent another I am out 220.00 bucks.
IT is not just a quality issue. Pay pal allows seller to bait and switch etc, IF they prove they can sent some thing.Via tracking #'s etc.
You can state over and over it is a quality problem NO IT is a fraud problem. Pay pal is allowing it by letting sellers use pay pal to collect money.
I did not get what I bid on. The size mattered to me.
I posted to warn other bidders of pay pal.
posted on October 23, 2001 06:24:09 PM
happyday21,
the size issue of 17 versus 18 of the saddle is something which a third party cannot verify,this is a he said/she said situation.even if paypal does remote viewing ,it will have to be equipped with a tape measure .
you want paypal to return the money to you ,if so you will have both the money and the merchandise.
then coming back to a piece of your own medicine,how would the seller feel-oh,now she has the money and merchandise and i will never get my saddle back?
if you decide to return the saddle after getting your money back via paypal,are you then going to spend 36 dollars to return the saddle?
you have led us to believe the issue is more than size,it is resewn,it is worse than your 25 years old saddle and you refer it to a peice of trash.
make up your mind and grow up,there is no fairy godmother,you bot an item you are not happy with on ebay which is a cyber fleamarket,ALWAYS REMEMBER ebay is a fleamarket!!!!!!!
posted on October 23, 2001 07:16:38 PM
Thank you Damon for hopefully clearing this up!
(hopefully)
This is not a PayPal dispute as most of us figured.
As eventer said, this has been very hard to follow here, so I can only imagine how tough it's been on the seller also if he was trying to work this out. I would love to see the sellers view on this transaction.
Maybe happyday21 you could invite him here to respond to your statements???
wowwow85 when I said...
"negging the seller just about seals the deal"
...that's just my opinion and several others that read this thread with me.
In all of our packages goes a note thanking the buyer and reads something like.....
"if there are ANY problems please contact us before leaving feedback"
I have bent over backward for a few people, but so far we are closing in on 1,000 all positive feedbacks, ZERO negatives.
If anyone ever negs us they will loose all of their 'power' with us to resolve the matter. (I don't sse it happening because we will do whatever it takes to make it right)
But if it did, poof!
You are probably right, it probably shouldn't"seal the deal", but I am sure that it has and does for some!
This looks way out of control now....
...the ONLY way that I see this working out is if you two stop and try to reason this out. Send the saddle back, release his funds and let him refund you. Even if it costs you the return postage that is better than being out the entire amount.
You can either both give a little and resolve this or you can play games and keep posting here, complaining about an e-payment service that has NOTHING to do with the problem here.
Again, I would LOVE to hear the sellers side of this story.
I don't look at ebay as a real business, more of a card game.
If you cannot afford to play, don't sit at the table.
You win, you loose.
Just like real life.
You don't put your last dollar in a slot machine and hope for the big one.
posted on October 23, 2001 08:02:33 PM
It seemed at one time you had a seller that would work with you. If he sent 5 e-mails a week he wasn't sticking his head in the sand.
If I was the seller I would not return any money until I had my item back.
Pay the $36 and take the wipping or lose it all.
Be nice...you can attract more flies with honey than sugar. But you aren't in any position to demand much.
posted on October 24, 2001 04:44:08 AM
......following eventers lead.....
How 'exactly' was the saddle described???
I still have a problem with this statement.....
>I was under the impression a high start price meant good quality<
...so until I see the description as was listed (or hear the sellers side of this deal), I can't see anything else to discuss on this.
I'm sure that the seller is just as ticked as you are, and I still don't know why you would neg him because PayPal said it's not their issue, as has everyone else here.
majesticman is correct.....
"Be nice...you can attract more flies with honey than sugar. But you aren't in any position to demand much."
