posted on December 5, 2001 11:59:55 AM
I realize that ebay is not a competitor. I was just using my RL store as an example of my venue and how money could be taken out of my pockets.
Nothing is wrong with using the two click rule, e-mails and some other ways a seller can promote business. I don't even object to the ones that jump through hoops and keep one step ahead of ebay's rules. These are the sellers that may get warnings but they heed them and become more creative.
But time and time again I see sellers coming here all distressed after they have received more than one warning from ebay and they continue doing things the same way.
posted on December 5, 2001 12:27:25 PM
So all the products in your RL store do not have brand names, phone numbers to contact the manufactorer, or now even web site addresses on the packaging ?
Do you sell newspapers/magazines in your store ? These are filled with competing advertisements.
I buy products everyday from retailers that have competitive information right on the packaging. There are web sites on the packaging and the web sites offers products and also listings of other retailers that carry the product.
If you sell new products in your store, you have competition, you probably don't realize it.
eBay, as well as other corporate entities, are attempting to reign in the commercial power and competition of the PC and the internet from individuals.
posted on December 5, 2001 12:46:37 PM
Antiques and collectibles don't have hang tags or labels. Some of our giftware does and at times I do take off addresses, etc. because of snoopy competition in the same town who are too lazy to come up with their own ideas. Other times I try to work with the competition.
Of course ebay is trying to reign in the competition--nothing new there, that is their bottom line. And there is nothing wrong with people trying to fight that either.
posted on December 5, 2001 01:19:34 PMWould you like the US Government to step in and tell EBay how to run their site? They are a business, and these are their rules. This is not a free trade issue. What you are suggesting is against free trade!
The relationship between the US Government and eBay would be the same as the relationship between eBay and one of it's members. In other words, what gives eBay the "right" to tell their members what they can and can't do on their own personal websites? Does eBay policy state that once you become a member and list something there, they own all rights to the sale of that product forever and ever?
I think you eBay zealots really need to do a little collective head shaking here. eBay provides a nice venue for people to list and sell items -- it does not, and should go any further than that. If you let them dictate to you what you are "allowed" to do in your "off eBay time", then you have a major problem.
posted on December 5, 2001 01:55:09 PM
Hey, uh, if eBay permanently suspends you why not post your item & source here at aw? That way all the posters will be in competition with the seller that helped get you suspended.
dendude
posted on December 5, 2001 02:49:07 PM
The relationship between Ebay and the Gvt. is not the same as between Ebay and a seller.
It is their business, and I feel they have a right to decide how it is run. I really hate most of their policies, and disagree with them. I also hope Yahoo can pick up steam so Ebay gets set back a bit and relents on some of the idiocy. I think it it crazy that you can not place a link to your web site, and you have to have a graphic that has a maximum size.
That being said, I strongly believe that they have a right to run their business as they see fit. I can decide to do business with them or not.
What you are suggesting is that their policies are anti free-trade, and the only way to resolve that would be a federal lawsuit. Remember Mircosoft? Besides the fact the government wasted MILLIONS of dollars, there is basically nothing that will change because of this, Microsoft will go on as they always have.
While it may seem contradictory to disagree with Ebay yet support their decision to run the business as they wish, it basically boils down to the First Ammendment - I may protest against what someone says, but I would defend their right to say it.
If I want to list something on eBay for $10.00 and offer the same item on my website for $5.00, it's none of eBay's business.
It is ebay's business if your website is directly linked to their site and you are using the popularity of their site to sell your stuff and they aren't getting any fees.
Plus bidders may buy the $10.00 item on your auction and later see the same one for $5.00 on your website and come whining back at you and at ebay about how you ripped them off.
posted on December 5, 2001 03:45:18 PM
I also disagree that it is not their business, because it is harming their business. I don't like their policies, but here it is:
"shall not link directly or indirectly to or include descriptions of goods or services that: (aa) are prohibited under this Agreement; (bb) are identical to other items you have up for auction but are priced lower than your item's reserve or minimum bid amount"
Now, you have two choices - Follow the rules, or don't. Nobody is forcing you to, nobody is forcing me to!
I had a client whose web site was terminated because they sent out SPAM - It mentioned their web site, but that was in the terms of service for web hosting, that SPAM could not be used to promote it. Now, of course I would expect their ISP to cancel them, but the reason the web site canceled them is because they did not want to become associated with SPAM. I supported their decision.
posted on December 5, 2001 05:15:55 PM
It's not a matter of agreeing (I actually don't) but accepting they have a right to do this.
Think about it. You want a free world, but then you want a business to be told how to be run. You can't have it both ways. Yes, I know your argument is that they are telling the seller what to do, and you think that is interferrence in your business. This is not the same though, it is WAY different. The difference is that if I as a seller want to be on Ebay, I follow their terms of service. I have a choice. I don't have to do business iwth them.
What you are advocating is that no choice be given to Ebay as to whether or not they have a say about how much something needs to be sold for on your website, as the only way to enforce them to make a change is by very unlikely federal action.
You are old enough to know that what you prefer in this life is not what you get.
I prefer not to pay my landlord the taxes on his building. I prefer not to pay ebay fees and I prefer to have someone cook my dinner every night. Life just isn't fair.
Read carefully what ahc3 is saying to you as he/she has it right.
Some of us agree to ebay's rules so we can buy and sell there and that doesn't mean that we like it. But can you imagine what it would be like if everyone did what they wanted and there were no rules at all?
posted on December 5, 2001 05:51:40 PM
ah3 --- you still don't get it ... sorry
You wrote: The difference is that if I as a seller want to be on Ebay, I follow their terms of service. I have a choice. I don't have to do business iwth them
From what I am reading here, if you chose to sell your stuff on eBay, you have no other choices ... they own you!
Why can't a seller sell on eBay and in their private store or website? Don't give me the rhetoric about using eBay's exposure to benefit your personal business ... that's what you pay those listing and selling fees for.
I hope the day never comes that if I place a want ad in the New York Times, I can't sell the item to someone who never reads that paper.
[ edited by RB on Dec 5, 2001 05:55 PM ]
posted on December 5, 2001 05:56:54 PM
Sorry to hear you were suspended. You sound like a nice person. Though if you are linking to your web site and/or offering the same item for less, your competition has a reason to be upset (as if they need one). By circumventing eBay fees, you can offer your item for less. Even a couple of bucks less means you are unfairly taking a large chunk of someone else's business.
Again, not that your competition needs a reason to target you. Lots of folks take their business very seriously, and that means messing with other people's auctions on occasion. Whatever you think of it, that's the American way. "Business is business."
I guess you already know you made a lot of mistakes. Not the least of which thinking that your enemy simply disappeared and you could safely list the same item using the same description in the same category and no one would be wiser. THAT WAS STUPID.
And I hope that everyone who suggested "getting a new ID" has noticed they got an eBay seller permanently suspended. Next time, don't advise others to violate a 30-day suspension.
Having said that, there are many creative ways you can do business on eBay without a seller ID. Figure it out, Einstein.
posted on December 5, 2001 11:22:48 PM
They can sell on their web site, RB - They just can not have the price lower than the opening bid on Ebay. They don't want someone who buys from you at $20 to go to the web site and find the item (and similar ones) for less, because it may cause their (ebay's) customer to stop going to ebay. Yes, once they buy from you, they are your customer too, but ebay would lose out.
There you have it, it is a rule they have, and you either follow it or you don't (and if you don't, you may have happen to you what started this thread)
My point is that if I want to participate in their site, I have to follow their rules. If they want me to only wear a green shirt on Thursday when I post, I suppose I might have to do that too! There are certain things they can not do, i.e. they can't say that you can only be white to participate on Ebay, but there are a lot of things that they CAN do. I don't support them, and I am hoping that with the resurgance of Yahoo (I am pleased with them so far) that Ebay will have to re-evaluate their terms of service. Until then...
posted on December 6, 2001 08:28:35 AM
ahc3 said,
They can sell on their web site, RB - They just can not have the price lower than the opening bid on Ebay. They don't want someone who buys from you at $20 to go to the web site and find the item (and similar ones) for less, because it may cause their (ebay's) customer to stop going to ebay. Yes, once they buy from you, they are your customer too, but ebay would ----
///////////////////////////////
It used to be a seller can link to their website from the item page and offer same product at a price higher than the opening bid,but all these have changed,you can only link to a page outside ebay which displays more info on that item.
besides the loss of ebay revenue,there is also a problem with suqabbles,when a high bidder buy additional items from that site and it did not pan out,he takes the complaint to ebay,he could also file insurance with ebay claiming these items are bot on ebay,when in fact one is bot on ebay,the rest on the seller website.
it has been my experience ebay bidders prefer to stay with ebay ,there is no other website out there which can compare to ebay for its ever changing diversed products range.they may buy when you ask them to visit but they do not make repeated customers.
posted on December 6, 2001 08:33:41 AM
I believe the whole point is that Ebay's rule is against posting your website link on your auction listing. Not that your store items are less than your auction listing.
Where was this point missed in the messages back and forth?
The no link rule has to do with not using ebay auction listings to advertise your web-store. Not telling you what you can and can't price your items for in your web-store.
posted on December 6, 2001 08:52:00 AM
it is not until year 2001 that seller cannot have a link from item page to his own website peddling more items,as long as the identical items are offered at a price higher than ebay starting bid on that page.
many sellers drop items to ebay from their website to advertise their website,but all these changed months ago.
some selllers continue to do so and many were reported or caught by ebay police and get suspended.
the only way you can have a link to your website to sell items is the ME PAGE.
very few people click on me page anyway.
posted on December 6, 2001 09:08:52 AM
My example was an extreme one, but not as extreme as yours. The point is that you seem to be unwilling to accept that as it is their web site, they pretty much can set the rules. Obviously you are not an ebay seller because of that, and that is fine.
posted on December 6, 2001 09:17:44 AM
RB, are you still suspended from ebay? Was that temporary or permanent or did you finally ask them to remove your registration?
posted on December 6, 2001 09:35:08 AM
i believe as far as ebay is concerned RB is permanently suspended,for being a repeated offender and attempted to sell under a different id while suspended for 30 days.
we have not heard from him ,could be he is busy convincing his mother to let him sell under her id-her driver id,ss,cc,bank account and her physical address and phone number.
once set up,RB can keep listing from his home on his phone line and internet service provider ,ebay would not know .
unless some mole won an item from him and send payment to his old address and call him on his phone line/
search past threads on folks who get suspended,one was a lady who ran a business with her mother and workers while not busy are free to buy and sell on ebay on company time and pc.
posted on December 6, 2001 09:37:55 AM
Well, that certainly explains why RB has so much animosity toward Ebay. I wonder if his point of view might be different if he was not banned from the site...
I'm not an ebay apologist, I think a lot of their "rules" stink but I would rather have the ability to sell on their site than to be banned, so I will follow them.
posted on December 6, 2001 10:58:58 AMRB, are you still suspended from ebay? Was that temporary or permanent or did you finally ask them to remove your registration?
First of all, yes, I am still suspended from eBay. It was temporary but I asked them to make it permanent. They still haven't removed my registration, but I cannot bid nor can I chat on their forums. It's a mystery to me why they want to drag this out. Not being a seller, I owe them nothing, and all auctions that had ended prior to this were paid for by me!
For the benefit of those here who are chuckling right now, saying to yourself "no wonder RB has such a mad on for eBay ... he got suspended", let me tell you why I was suspended.
I joined eBay primarily as a buyer. In the few short months I was there, I had amassed a positive feedback in the high 60's. I was not buying cheap stuff either ... the average amount of a purchase for me was around $40.00 US (over $60.00 Canadian).
One day I found something that I had been looking for and I placed a bid. A couple of days later, while checking my "my eBay", I realized that I placed the bid in error on a "US only" item. I retracted the bid, and found a similiar item being offered by an international seller.
The original seller contacted me and told me she had no problem with selling to Canada as long as I was willing to pay a little extra for shipping. Being a Canadian with many, many purchases under my belt, I was fully aware of this, and I was prepared to pay whatever it cost to ship. By then, of course, I had found a similar item and I thanked her for her email. The email correspondence between me and the seller was all very polite and on the up and up. Her item ended up selling for considerably more than my bid.
A couple of days after that, I received a 15 day suspension notice from eBay for "bid manipulation". They told me that I was not allowed to retract a bid.
Just before this occurred, I had been reading on the eBay forums about their rule that if you get outbid on an item, and bid on another one, then if the high bidder on the first one backed out, you would be held responsible for buying both items. Seems to me a bid retraction under those conditions should be accepable.
At any rate, I emailed eBay, told them the details, sent them copies of the emails between me and the seller, and asked them to reconsider the suspension.
They wouldn't, so I told them to cancel my account completely. Ever tried to cancel an eBay account???
The sad part about this, other than the fact that I have to look harder for the stuff I collect, is that at the time of my suspension, I had 7 open bids. These were all cancelled by administration, and I think only two of the items ended up selling. Five different sellers got hosed that day too.
So there ... chuckle all you want about my suspension from the wonderful world of eBay
posted on December 6, 2001 11:45:47 AM
WOW, when I started this thread, I never expected these many people to actually respond. I see that there are alot of people that hate ebay because of there rules. And people that like it because of there rules. I know that the rules are there to protect the consumer, but i still think that it is messed up to get suspened because you advertise your website on the auctions that you are paying for. Yes that takes away from ebay earnings and that is all ebay really cares about. They don't care about you or me the small seller, they are just in it to make money. I remeber when ebay started up, it was really a nice place to trade. It was a real community, unlike today. They try to say that ebay is still a community of poeple, but really come one, all ebay is is an advertisment venue for small business. And I agree with RB, we should not let ebay perdict how your small business runs. I am finding out the getting suspened out of ebay is not the end of my business. I am finding many more venues to sell than ebay. It was nice having ebay, but hey I am a survivor as most of us are. And I am surving, "still selling"... Thanks all for all your feedbacks and comments.
posted on December 6, 2001 11:46:34 AM
bid manipulation??
did you use another id to outbid yourself so you dont have to buy the item??
it does not take much for ebay to find out .
posted on December 6, 2001 11:59:54 AMRB, I am not chuckling about your suspension or ruben's nor do I wish anyone to be out of a job.
Sometimes it is interesting to see exactly why people are suspended. ebay has made some mistakes but so do sellers. Some get warnings and fail to heed them and hopefully some get a 2nd chance and learn from their mistakes. I am also hoping I never do anything wrong on ebay.
ruben, glad to hear you are exploring other opportunities. Good luck.
posted on December 6, 2001 12:06:01 PM
No, ebay is not a community anymore. It is dog eat dog, just like the real world of business.
I am not an ebay cheerleader liking all the rules either. But when one realizes that they are using ebay to sell their goods, either you follow the rules or get booted. Or else you have to be creative and stay one step ahead of the rules and keep looking over your shoulder.
posted on December 6, 2001 12:17:22 PM
Thanks kiara
In my case, I'm not out of a job ... I was strictly a buyer on eBay. I guess it's OK to assume that some sellers on eBay may have been effected by my suspension, and that is too bad. I have been able to find a few of the kinds of things I was buying on eBay on other venues, but in terms of variety, eBay can't be beat.
I wasn't an eBay member long enough to get through all of their policies and rules, but judging by what happened to me and what seems to be happening to others, I'm glad my association with eBay is over.
It seems that they want to be more than an auction venue.
If I were a business owner with a storefront, and I sold the odd item on eBay, there is absolutely no way I would let eBay tell me what I can and can't do in my store. That is none of their business. If I want to price an item on eBay for $100.00 and sell the same thing in my store for half that, what's the big deal? Someone will buy one on eBay and someone else will buy one from my store.
If I pay a fee to post an ad on eBay, and as long as I am not misrepresenting the item, selling something illegal, bashing my competitors, or using profanity, what gives them the right to tell me I can't put in a plug for my own business, other than "it's my ball and it you want to play, you have to play by my rules".
It's purely obvious from this that ruben has hit the nail square on the head. ebay exists only for eBay and their shareholders. You buyers and sellers who have worked so hard to make it work are meaningless in the big picture ... at least as long as you follow like little sheep.
I wish you guys success on eBay ... just make sure you bow down and face Meg at the beginning of each day
